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Author Topic: Olympic Torch relay  (Read 5864 times)
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storz
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« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2008, 11:24:12 AM »

Quote from: CSL on April 10, 2008, 05:51:36 AM

Quote from: SuperHiro on April 10, 2008, 05:45:27 AM

I bet 98% of these protesters, native Tibetans included, have no idea about the Tibetan government was like before the Chinese came in.


So you're saying any new Tibetan government is bound to become a theocratic slavery nation like it was?
Fix that for you.

No, I don't think it will be like before, i.e slavery.  But it will be a theocratic nation, as Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader as well as their political leader, thus religion will be mixed with government.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2008, 02:42:37 PM »

I really dislike the Dalai Lama. I think his government in exile sounds pretty damn corrupt, and I certainly wouldn't want to see him as the head of a nation.

My beef with China is that they are a totalitarian state. And that they're super-capitalist. And that Mao scored more than I ever will.
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« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2008, 09:43:36 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 10, 2008, 02:42:37 PM

And that Mao scored more than I ever will.

At least you have self-respect, and no blood on your hands.
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« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2008, 03:16:39 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on April 09, 2008, 05:21:16 AM

Quote from: unbreakable on April 08, 2008, 05:48:43 PM

Bush would never boycott the Olympics in China, simply because his administration doesn't actually object to anything they are doing, like civil rights abuses, illegal detention, or torture.

Sure, they talk a good game as usual, but everyone in the world knows the score.

So you just want to tell all the athletes who have worked for years to qualify for the Olympics to just take a flying leap over politics?  Especially the ones for whom this is their one and only chance, ever, to represent their country in the Olympics?  Wow.

Sure.  I'll always support freedom and civil rights over sports.  On the totem pole of how much I think sports actually matter in the world, sports ranks way, way, way down there.

In fact, the Olympics isn't even about the sports, or the athletes.  It's about a symbol of global unity.  So not only is it crazy to say politics shouldn't enter into the Olympics... the entire even is PURELY about politics.

Do you REALLY think anyone gives a damn about how far some dude can jump?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 04:04:43 PM by unbreakable » Logged
Eduardo X
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« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2008, 04:08:57 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on April 11, 2008, 03:16:39 PM

Do you REALLY think anyone gives a damn about how far some dude can jump?
This guy cares.
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« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2008, 05:52:40 PM »

Of course, the torch ceremony was introduced in the 1936 Olympics by some unsavory people, so breaking from the dubious origins might even be a good thing, huh?
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Jolor
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« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2008, 06:32:22 PM »

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Which is why I predict that every future relay will be protested by some group or another.  Instant, world-wide coverage for your cause.  It's just too good to ignore anymore.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2008, 07:04:00 PM »

Quote from: Jolor on April 11, 2008, 06:32:22 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Which is why I predict that every future relay will be protested by some group or another.  Instant, world-wide coverage for your cause.  It's just too good to ignore anymore.
I think that downplays the impact of China's human rights abuses. They are expansive and absolutely brutal, and to look past it you have to have some severe idealogical blinders on, be they Maoist or capitalist.
I doubt that very many people around the world will be upset about London hosting the Olympics, and I just can't see protests on this scale in the torch relay.
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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2008, 08:13:01 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 11, 2008, 07:04:00 PM

I think that downplays the impact of China's human rights abuses. They are expansive and absolutely brutal, and to look past it you have to have some severe idealogical blinders on, be they Maoist or capitalist.
I doubt that very many people around the world will be upset about London hosting the Olympics, and I just can't see protests on this scale in the torch relay.

But... WONT ANYONE THINK OF THE ATHLETES?!?!?!
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Jolor
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« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2008, 03:45:25 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 11, 2008, 07:04:00 PM

Quote from: Jolor on April 11, 2008, 06:32:22 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Which is why I predict that every future relay will be protested by some group or another.  Instant, world-wide coverage for your cause.  It's just too good to ignore anymore.
I think that downplays the impact of China's human rights abuses. They are expansive and absolutely brutal, and to look past it you have to have some severe idealogical blinders on, be they Maoist or capitalist.
I doubt that very many people around the world will be upset about London hosting the Olympics, and I just can't see protests on this scale in the torch relay.

I don't think it downplays the human right abuses so much as it up-plays the visibility that disrupting the Olympic torch relay offers.  I'm not suggesting that there will be a world-wide, coordinated effort to protest animal rights (for example).  I do, however, fully expect a fragmented response where there will be five or six different causes choosing to interrupt the procession as their way of getting attention on the world stage. 
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2008, 06:28:29 AM »

About the Tibet situation. Peaceful protests or riots? Seem like there are conflicting reports on that on the non western media.
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« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2008, 01:56:16 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on April 11, 2008, 07:04:00 PM

Quote from: Jolor on April 11, 2008, 06:32:22 PM

Quote from: CSL on April 08, 2008, 05:33:10 PM

Quote from: rickfc on April 08, 2008, 05:28:53 PM

You really want to send a message to the IOC?  Boycott the games.  Don't attend and don't watch them on TV.  The millions, if not billions, lost in revenue would send a message they can understand.  A few protesters making the torch relay difficult?  Meh.  Affecting the green lining of their pockets?  Message delivered.

How else do you expect people are going to get the message other than fucking with the flame? It's the most visible symbol of the games before they are actually held and therefore the best way to generate interest and news stories.

Which is why I predict that every future relay will be protested by some group or another.  Instant, world-wide coverage for your cause.  It's just too good to ignore anymore.
I think that downplays the impact of China's human rights abuses. They are expansive and absolutely brutal, and to look past it you have to have some severe idealogical blinders on, be they Maoist or capitalist.
I doubt that very many people around the world will be upset about London hosting the Olympics, and I just can't see protests on this scale in the torch relay.

Human rights by your values.

Imagine, for a moment, that the games were being hosted in the States, there was a huge outcry for the US behaviour in Iraq, and the treatment of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay. Would they be any less wrong?

I assume one of the reasons the IOC chose China was to serve as a way to bring the world over to China for some hot cocoa and a nice relaxing evening. To lash out at the hosts of the game simply because they treat people differently does not mean that we should be feeling good about disrupting the act of international diplomacy and bridge building directly.

That's what governments are for; follow proper channels. If there is such an outcry, then perhaps foreign policy should be on the forum debates rather than seeing joe shmoe attack an athlete in trying to quell the spirit of international diplomacy.

Boycott the games, pull your athletes from the competition, etc. Go ahead and organize protests; but leave the athletes out of it. This isn't a picket line where the people are stealing your job; these people have worked their lives to get where they are able to compete at that level.
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Brendan
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« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2008, 04:37:03 PM »

The torchbearers aren't athletes - they're just random people.

Quote
A fisheries biologist, a former Olympic pentathlon, a registered nurse and an author are four of the 80 people who will relay the Olympic torch through San Francisco on Wednesday.
...
Lee was one of the 41 torchbearers who was chosen after submitting an essay to a selection committee in February. The committee received 543 applications, most of which were from Bay Area residents, Newsom said. The city and county of San Francisco were given 41 spaces to choose applicants for, and the sponsors and Olympic committee will choose the remaining 39.

All torchbearers have to be approved by the Beijing Organizing Committee of the Olympic Games before they will be allowed to participate in the relay.
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« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2008, 05:30:55 PM »

Sorry, I meant torch bearer.

And when I say "treat people differently" I mean kill people differently. Just to be clear. slywink If China's social structure was of "western" aka democratic I doubt there would be a "them". Xenophobia taints this, and while I think the killing in Darfur is an atrocity being associated with it is not the same as being responsible for it.
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