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Author Topic: If the Repubs sweep back into congress, will this forum come to life again? NSFW  (Read 4328 times)
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ATB
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« on: November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM »

 ...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?


Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on.  
« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 06:54:40 PM by naednek » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2010, 12:05:03 PM »

God damn republicans will run this country into the ground with their damn anti-gravity laws! I predict max 3 years before the debt will outweigh the amount of money we have paper to print - and who's fault is that? Whiny republicans and their safe the forests agendas...

Oh, and don't get me started on education, its ridiculous -half the youths leaving our public schools can't even spell "looser" or "criminal" without screwing it up.

better? ;-)
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« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2010, 01:46:49 PM »

If Sharon Angle can be a Senator, what is there left to talk about?
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2010, 01:59:40 PM »

No, this forum will not come into life again. That's due to the people here, not the people out there slywink.
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2010, 02:33:39 PM »

we should just turn this one into a sports forum.
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 02:33:15 AM »

i am just ready for this shit to be over... I am tired of the commercials, the robo calls, the banners... i am just done.  Most of these asshats need to be out of office and we need term limits... we need common sense... and none of these people have any.  Why spend 3.5 billion dollars on getting elected in the most expensive non-presidential election season.  In a time where Americans are hurting most... these asshats blow billions of dollars for what?  To go to Washington to do nothing for the American people except pad their own pockets...
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 02:41:34 AM »

Quote from: papasmurff on November 03, 2010, 02:33:15 AM

i am just ready for this shit to be over... I am tired of the commercials, the robo calls, the banners... i am just done.  Most of these asshats need to be out of office and we need term limits... we need common sense... and none of these people have any.  Why spend 3.5 billion dollars on getting elected in the most expensive non-presidential election season.  In a time where Americans are hurting most... these asshats blow billions of dollars for what?  To go to Washington to do nothing for the American people except pad their own pockets...

Everyone thinks this, but if everyone actually acted on it, both John Boehner and Harry Reid would be out of jobs tonight. Something tells me they will still be employed in the morning.
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM »

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 04:10:55 AM »

well... i am happy about one thing.  We had a local issue pass removing smoking from restaurants... THANK GOD... I just moved to this area and was surprised the first time i was asked smoking or non... I was like... saywhat  

Edit:  I moved from an area which removed smoking from restaurants like 10 years ago

2nd edit:  CNN is now predicting the democrats will retain the Senate.  Basically, the status quo will continue.  Nothing will be accomplished because the republicans in the house won't work with either the president or the senate... and yes it does go both ways.... the democrats won't work with the republicans... 
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 05:07:43 AM »

from all the attack ads and news pieces I'm convinced that if someone gave a speech like the Gettysburg Address today it'd go something like this:

Quote
and that government of the people party, by the people party, for the people party, shall not perish from the earth.

I listened to bunch of ads today, each pointing out what their opponent was doing wrong but saying nothing about what they'd do to fix things, so I decided none of them were worthy of my vote so I voted for Willie.
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM »

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2010, 12:35:34 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?

Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on. 

Only if we get some smarter conservatives on this board who can actually bring something to an honest debate rather than the paper-thin Fox talking points. 
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Frankly, I'd have liked to see the Repubs win a smaller majority in the House, but perhaps the larger majority might work out too. Now you're thinking "wtf, why would a liberal be happy?", so let me explain.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the lack of fucking balls the Democrats showed the last two years. They've been far too laid back and the infighting amongst them has gotten on my last nerve. As such, this was an election between the gutless and the soulless. I think many liberals (Democrat =/= liberal) were also entirely disgusted and we weren't energized in any way. Better to be not energized now than in 2012.

Furthermore, now the Republicans actually have to govern again. This is something they entirely failed to do since Obama took office. So instead of always having to say no, they're going to have to come to the table with some decent shit. That tax cuts for the rich, fuck everyone else mentality won't get by the Senate, so I feel relatively protected by the Ds in the Senate and the White House. Obama can lay down the gauntlet on Republican obstructionism and it'll actually stick with the block-headed American public because now they know the Rs are just as responsible. It should bind the Democrats back together against a common foe, giving them a more unified front. And the House Republicans are known for being off their rocker, so we'll get to make fun of some of their proposals over the next two years and that should provide good election fodder in 2012.

Finally, I'm always happy with a split government. Shit generally gets done, and gets done better, when both parties share in the responsibility for governing.
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2010, 01:16:55 PM »

I think it will be interesting to see the budget voting process come next year. Will the elected Tea Party members stand resolute on their promise of no earmarks? Or will it turn into "no earmarks for the Democrats"? Will Medicare and Social Security lose their "sacred cow" status? And if so, where will the backlash fall come 2012? Will the budget even pass? If the Tea Party people are as passionate about their ideals once they are in power then I see an impasse every time they refuse to toe the party line.
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2010, 02:00:43 PM »

Parties mobilizing against parties gets us nowhere.  Its amazing to me that we haven't learned that yet.
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« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 02:13:21 PM »

I also have to wonder whether special interest groups are getting frustrated by the fast turnaround or whether they prefer it this way. I would think that lobbyists and special interest groups would prefer to have incumbents to stay in power longer, since seniority gives a person more clout and lets them be in more committees.
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« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 10:31:34 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Excuse me sir but, perchance, is this your nose? 


 icon_wink
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 12:38:18 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Frankly, I'd have liked to see the Repubs win a smaller majority in the House, but perhaps the larger majority might work out too. Now you're thinking "wtf, why would a liberal be happy?", so let me explain.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the lack of fucking balls the Democrats showed the last two years. They've been far too laid back and the infighting amongst them has gotten on my last nerve. As such, this was an election between the gutless and the soulless. I think many liberals (Democrat =/= liberal) were also entirely disgusted and we weren't energized in any way. Better to be not energized now than in 2012.

Furthermore, now the Republicans actually have to govern again. This is something they entirely failed to do since Obama took office. So instead of always having to say no, they're going to have to come to the table with some decent shit. That tax cuts for the rich, fuck everyone else mentality won't get by the Senate, so I feel relatively protected by the Ds in the Senate and the White House. Obama can lay down the gauntlet on Republican obstructionism and it'll actually stick with the block-headed American public because now they know the Rs are just as responsible. It should bind the Democrats back together against a common foe, giving them a more unified front. And the House Republicans are known for being off their rocker, so we'll get to make fun of some of their proposals over the next two years and that should provide good election fodder in 2012.

Finally, I'm always happy with a split government. Shit generally gets done, and gets done better, when both parties share in the responsibility for governing.

I only see gridlock, the Republicans have flat out said no compromise. So I see nobody going anywhere, nothing will get done. We will only get driven into the hole more instead of getting some things fixed.
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 12:03:46 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:35:34 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?

Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on. 

Only if we get some smarter conservatives on this board who can actually bring something to an honest debate rather than the paper-thin Fox talking points. 

Maybe because not too many here would be actually interested in hearing those conservative points and debating them without eventually lowering themselves to personal attacks instead?

Nah, that would never happen here. Right?
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 12:16:17 PM »

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

LOL

this is exactly how i've felt for the past 2 years

 icon_wink
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 03:25:57 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:35:34 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?

Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on. 

Only if we get some smarter conservatives on this board who can actually bring something to an honest debate rather than the paper-thin Fox talking points. 

Maybe because not too many here would be actually interested in hearing those conservative points and debating them without eventually lowering themselves to personal attacks instead?

Nah, that would never happen here. Right?

Give me a logical, factual conservative talking point and I'll debate with it. From all that I've heard there is nothing that will work realistically come out. It would only make the situation worse. Do you honestly feel that health care as it was, or really how it fucking is. Is sustainable? I've been at my job for under a year and my insurance premiums have already gone up. I'm only using it as an example don't really mean to get into another 200 page debate on health care. I'll say the the dems aren't any better being utterly spineless but the alternative is just worse to me. All I saw, all I've seen, from the Republicans is lie after lie, that would only make me who I would say at the moment is middle-upper middle class worse off. The trickle down effect is bullshit, the insurance industry is bullshit, THE GODDAMN NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND IS BULLSHIT, we went into 2000 with a huge surplus, a great growing economy which was utterly destroyed in 8 years and people some how expected it all to be fixed in under 2. And now it won't be fixed at all unless progressive people are thrown into all of that and have enough control to make actual good changes.

Which won't happen now.
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2010, 03:46:43 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:35:34 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?

Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on. 

Only if we get some smarter conservatives on this board who can actually bring something to an honest debate rather than the paper-thin Fox talking points. 

Maybe because not too many here would be actually interested in hearing those conservative points and debating them without eventually lowering themselves to personal attacks instead?

Nah, that would never happen here. Right?

Who knows?  We've never had an conservative who was intelligent enough to go beyond parroting Fox talking points or Economics 101, so it's all theoretical at this point.  Your guess is as good as mine.
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2010, 03:52:03 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Frankly, I'd have liked to see the Repubs win a smaller majority in the House, but perhaps the larger majority might work out too. Now you're thinking "wtf, why would a liberal be happy?", so let me explain.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the lack of fucking balls the Democrats showed the last two years. They've been far too laid back and the infighting amongst them has gotten on my last nerve. As such, this was an election between the gutless and the soulless. I think many liberals (Democrat =/= liberal) were also entirely disgusted and we weren't energized in any way. Better to be not energized now than in 2012.

Furthermore, now the Republicans actually have to govern again. This is something they entirely failed to do since Obama took office. So instead of always having to say no, they're going to have to come to the table with some decent shit. That tax cuts for the rich, fuck everyone else mentality won't get by the Senate, so I feel relatively protected by the Ds in the Senate and the White House. Obama can lay down the gauntlet on Republican obstructionism and it'll actually stick with the block-headed American public because now they know the Rs are just as responsible. It should bind the Democrats back together against a common foe, giving them a more unified front. And the House Republicans are known for being off their rocker, so we'll get to make fun of some of their proposals over the next two years and that should provide good election fodder in 2012.

Finally, I'm always happy with a split government. Shit generally gets done, and gets done better, when both parties share in the responsibility for governing.

I hope you're right, but this is what Mitch McConnell has to say (or will if he follows his prepared remarks).

The Republicans won't do a single thing that could even possibly be interpreted as a positive for Obama. Their entire agenda will be to make sure he's not re-elected.

If the Democrats don't come up with some way to counter the corporate money-fueled-propaganda machines of Fox News, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, The Club for Growth, The Chamber of Commerce, et. al., we're going to deal with them in control of the entire government again.

And that's not even mentioning the Republicans' anti-science stances, their threats to shut down the government if they don't get their way, their threats to not extend the debt limit (which would absolutely destroy the economy), impeachment threats,  not giving one single example of budget cuts despite screeching long and loud about too much spending.

Of course they have a mandate now and this mandate is totally different than the mandate of '08 which caused them to be total and absolute obstructionists.

Enough...I think that rant made me feel better.

And Zeke, I'd be happy to hear a conservative idea...as long as it's not a talking point from Fox News, Limabaugh, Hannity or Beck. slywink

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« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2010, 04:11:41 PM »

Why the hell would an intelligent conservative ever bother debating things with folks like you, Adar?  Honestly, some of us just have better things to do with our time than bang our heads against a brick wall.
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« Reply #24 on: November 04, 2010, 04:19:47 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 04, 2010, 03:46:43 PM

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 12:03:46 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:35:34 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 02, 2010, 11:26:04 AM

...with the one-sided and incomprehensible rants?

Because it has been awfully quiet since all of that 'change' has been going on. 

Only if we get some smarter conservatives on this board who can actually bring something to an honest debate rather than the paper-thin Fox talking points. 


Maybe because not too many here would be actually interested in hearing those conservative points and debating them without eventually lowering themselves to personal attacks instead?

Nah, that would never happen here. Right?

Who knows?  We've never had an conservative who was intelligent enough to go beyond parroting Fox talking points or Economics 101, so it's all theoretical at this point.  Your guess is as good as mine.

So to sum up.....there's only stupid and/or retarded conservatives here.

Thanks for proving my point  icon_wink
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« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 04:22:25 PM »

And according to LoneStarSpur, a stated in his post, an intelligent conservative is an oxymoron.
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« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 04:43:29 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 04:19:47 PM

So to sum up.....there's only stupid and/or retarded conservatives here.

Thanks for proving my point  icon_wink

I prefer the term "challenged", but okay.

Quote from: Rowdy
Why the hell would an intelligent conservative ever bother debating things with folks like you, Adar?  Honestly, some of us just have better things to do with our time than bang our heads against a brick wall.

If you feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall, then bring something to the table beyond the most basic and shallow talking points.  It's really that simple. 
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« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 04:44:47 PM »

Quote
And Zeke, I'd be happy to hear a conservative idea...as long as it's not a talking point from Fox News, Limabaugh, Hannity or Beck.

Ah, what the hell....i'll humor you.

My conservative ideas:

-do not seperate religion and state. This country was founded on christian beliefs, and so it shall remain the dominant religion.

-same goes for the spoken language. Which, since many seem to have forgotten these days, is English.

-Immigration should be controlled and restricted so that #1 and #2 remain

-government shall stay the hell out of our lives unless absolutely necessary. and if it grows too large to the point of mis-representing the people, it needs knocked down.

-marriage only counts between a man and a woman. if you like the same sex, thats fine....just keep it in your house and do not try to force it on others.

-the Constitution should be the law of the land, and is not a liquid document that should change to suit the current generation's "moods"

-we are the dominant nation in the world, and should act accordingly until another nation can say otherwise. this means don't even think of trying any more bullshit like 9/11

Ok, i'll stop there and wait for the massive flames  icon_wink

p.s. yeah yeah, some of those ideas mirror Hannity, Limbaugh, Fox News, etc. How dare them! lol
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« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 04:50:02 PM »

Quote
If you feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall, then bring something to the table beyond the most basic and shallow talking points.  It's really that simple.

To a lot of conservatives, things really are that basic. It's one of our positive attributes that many of our laws and beliefs have already been decided throughout time, and we're happy to stick with them.
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« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 04:52:46 PM »

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 04, 2010, 03:52:03 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Frankly, I'd have liked to see the Repubs win a smaller majority in the House, but perhaps the larger majority might work out too. Now you're thinking "wtf, why would a liberal be happy?", so let me explain.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the lack of fucking balls the Democrats showed the last two years. They've been far too laid back and the infighting amongst them has gotten on my last nerve. As such, this was an election between the gutless and the soulless. I think many liberals (Democrat =/= liberal) were also entirely disgusted and we weren't energized in any way. Better to be not energized now than in 2012.

Furthermore, now the Republicans actually have to govern again. This is something they entirely failed to do since Obama took office. So instead of always having to say no, they're going to have to come to the table with some decent shit. That tax cuts for the rich, fuck everyone else mentality won't get by the Senate, so I feel relatively protected by the Ds in the Senate and the White House. Obama can lay down the gauntlet on Republican obstructionism and it'll actually stick with the block-headed American public because now they know the Rs are just as responsible. It should bind the Democrats back together against a common foe, giving them a more unified front. And the House Republicans are known for being off their rocker, so we'll get to make fun of some of their proposals over the next two years and that should provide good election fodder in 2012.

Finally, I'm always happy with a split government. Shit generally gets done, and gets done better, when both parties share in the responsibility for governing.

I hope you're right, but this is what Mitch McConnell has to say (or will if he follows his prepared remarks).

The Republicans won't do a single thing that could even possibly be interpreted as a positive for Obama. Their entire agenda will be to make sure he's not re-elected.

If the Democrats don't come up with some way to counter the corporate money-fueled-propaganda machines of Fox News, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, The Club for Growth, The Chamber of Commerce, et. al., we're going to deal with them in control of the entire government again.

And that's not even mentioning the Republicans' anti-science stances, their threats to shut down the government if they don't get their way, their threats to not extend the debt limit (which would absolutely destroy the economy), impeachment threats,  not giving one single example of budget cuts despite screeching long and loud about too much spending.

Of course they have a mandate now and this mandate is totally different than the mandate of '08 which caused them to be total and absolute obstructionists.

Enough...I think that rant made me feel better.

And Zeke, I'd be happy to hear a conservative idea...as long as it's not a talking point from Fox News, Limabaugh, Hannity or Beck. slywink



Actually, I'm all fine with that.  The thing is that the spotlight is now on them and they really don't have any power to effect change.  If this new crop of Republicans comes to the table with fresh ideas, I think they'll find that public sentiment is willing to listen.  But if all they want to do is play obstructionist, then I think they'll find that they'll suffer a backlash especially if/when the economy turns around.  Most people believed that the Ds could/should have gotten things done without the Rs because they controlled the legislative and executive branches.  But now that the Rs have control of one, they're now partners in this.  And people aren't going to take too kindly to being out of work while the Rs do nothing in the House.  

Hey, maybe I'll be surprised and some of this new Republican blood might actually have a fresh idea or two.
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2010, 05:01:51 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 04, 2010, 04:52:46 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 04, 2010, 03:52:03 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 03, 2010, 12:36:32 PM

Quote from: LoneStarSpur on November 03, 2010, 12:05:16 PM

Quote from: SkyLander on November 03, 2010, 03:43:21 AM

This is just utterly fucking depressing.

Goddamnit America.

QFT

As one of the most far-left folks on this board, I say this about the midterms:

Good!

Frankly, I'd have liked to see the Repubs win a smaller majority in the House, but perhaps the larger majority might work out too. Now you're thinking "wtf, why would a liberal be happy?", so let me explain.

Frankly, I'm disgusted with the lack of fucking balls the Democrats showed the last two years. They've been far too laid back and the infighting amongst them has gotten on my last nerve. As such, this was an election between the gutless and the soulless. I think many liberals (Democrat =/= liberal) were also entirely disgusted and we weren't energized in any way. Better to be not energized now than in 2012.

Furthermore, now the Republicans actually have to govern again. This is something they entirely failed to do since Obama took office. So instead of always having to say no, they're going to have to come to the table with some decent shit. That tax cuts for the rich, fuck everyone else mentality won't get by the Senate, so I feel relatively protected by the Ds in the Senate and the White House. Obama can lay down the gauntlet on Republican obstructionism and it'll actually stick with the block-headed American public because now they know the Rs are just as responsible. It should bind the Democrats back together against a common foe, giving them a more unified front. And the House Republicans are known for being off their rocker, so we'll get to make fun of some of their proposals over the next two years and that should provide good election fodder in 2012.

Finally, I'm always happy with a split government. Shit generally gets done, and gets done better, when both parties share in the responsibility for governing.

I hope you're right, but this is what Mitch McConnell has to say (or will if he follows his prepared remarks).

The Republicans won't do a single thing that could even possibly be interpreted as a positive for Obama. Their entire agenda will be to make sure he's not re-elected.

If the Democrats don't come up with some way to counter the corporate money-fueled-propaganda machines of Fox News, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, The Club for Growth, The Chamber of Commerce, et. al., we're going to deal with them in control of the entire government again.

And that's not even mentioning the Republicans' anti-science stances, their threats to shut down the government if they don't get their way, their threats to not extend the debt limit (which would absolutely destroy the economy), impeachment threats,  not giving one single example of budget cuts despite screeching long and loud about too much spending.

Of course they have a mandate now and this mandate is totally different than the mandate of '08 which caused them to be total and absolute obstructionists.

Enough...I think that rant made me feel better.

And Zeke, I'd be happy to hear a conservative idea...as long as it's not a talking point from Fox News, Limabaugh, Hannity or Beck. slywink



Actually, I'm all fine with that.  The thing is that the spotlight is now on them and they really don't have any power to effect change.  If this new crop of Republicans comes to the table with fresh ideas, I think they'll find that public sentiment is willing to listen.  But if all they want to do is play obstructionist, then I think they'll find that they'll suffer a backlash especially if/when the economy turns around.  Most people believed that the Ds could/should have gotten things done without the Rs because they controlled the legislative and executive branches.  But now that the Rs have control of one, they're now partners in this.  And people aren't going to take too kindly to being out of work while the Rs do nothing in the House.  

Hey, maybe I'll be surprised and some of this new Republican blood might actually have a fresh idea or two.


Were you honestly happy with what the unleashed Democrats were doing?
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« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2010, 05:07:30 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 05:01:51 PM

Were you honestly happy with what the unleashed Democrats were doing?

Heck no.  Those Goldwater conservatives aren't nearly liberal enough.  

I was going to respond to your points above, but I couldn't take 'em seriously enough to do so. 
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« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2010, 05:16:06 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on November 04, 2010, 05:07:30 PM

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 05:01:51 PM

Were you honestly happy with what the unleashed Democrats were doing?

Heck no.  Those Goldwater conservatives aren't nearly liberal enough.  

I was going to respond to your points above, but I couldn't take 'em seriously enough to do so. 

...and thats why there really isn't much to debate between us then  icon_surprised
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« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2010, 05:30:03 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 05:16:06 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on November 04, 2010, 05:07:30 PM

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 05:01:51 PM

Were you honestly happy with what the unleashed Democrats were doing?

Heck no.  Those Goldwater conservatives aren't nearly liberal enough.  

I was going to respond to your points above, but I couldn't take 'em seriously enough to do so.  

...and thats why there really isn't much to debate between us then  icon_surprised

You were being serious?  You want to talk about Constitutionalism and then talk about the establishment of a national religion (which goes directly against the First Amendment)?  There are plenty of theocracies in the world, but this ain't one of them.  That's why there isn't anything to debate.

I get the distinct impression that Zekester is trolling me...no one can be THAT stupid.  Well, except for my in-laws.  biggrin
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« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2010, 05:31:24 PM »

Ok, I'll bite.

Quote
-do not seperate religion and state. This country was founded on christian beliefs, and so it shall remain the dominant religion.

If we were to do away with this, how do you propose anyone that does not hold the same beliefs as you get a fair anything?  If you were to allow religion in the courts, someone who is not christian would immediately be wrong.  

Quote
-same goes for the spoken language. Which, since many seem to have forgotten these days, is English.

I can't argue with that one.

Quote
-Immigration should be controlled and restricted so that #1 and #2 remain

Legal immigration is controlled and restricted.  AFAIK, the government, regardless of who is in office, has been working for decades trying to control illegal immigration.

Quote
-government shall stay the hell out of our lives unless absolutely necessary. and if it grows too large to the point of mis-representing the people, it needs knocked down.

Knocked down how?  Coup?  And who gets to decide how much growth is too much?

Quote
-marriage only counts between a man and a woman. if you like the same sex, thats fine....just keep it in your house and do not try to force it on others.

The funny thing is that no one is trying to force it on you or anyone else.  Gay couples want, and should be afforded, the same rights as you and me.  Homosexuality is not going away no matter how much you wish it would.  A church can decide not to marry anyone, and they're within their rights to do so, but the government has no place trying to determine what constitutes a legal union.  See your above point about government staying the hell out of people's lives.

Quote
-the Constitution should be the law of the land, and is not a liquid document that should change to suit the current generation's "moods"

The Constitution was written well over 200 years ago.  Times change, and how things were back then do not always apply to modern times.

Quote
-we are the dominant nation in the world, and should act accordingly until another nation can say otherwise. this means don't even think of trying any more bullshit like 9/11

9/11 happened partly because of US policies abroad.  Other countries saw our policies as trying to establish dominance over others. You get the government to keep carrying on like that, and you'll get more attacks, not less.

And there, I'm done.
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« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2010, 05:55:37 PM »

Quote
If we were to do away with this, how do you propose anyone that does not hold the same beliefs as you get a fair anything?  If you were to allow religion in the courts, someone who is not christian would immediately be wrong. 

Things were not exactly unfair before, were they? This stuff about teachers getting in trouble because they put up a traditional Christmas decoration in their classroom is one example of what i'm talking about.

Quote
Legal immigration is controlled and restricted.  AFAIK, the government, regardless of who is in office, has been working for decades trying to control illegal immigration.

then what's with the uproar over Arizona lately?

Quote
Knocked down how?  Coup?  And who gets to decide how much growth is too much?

figuratively speaking, I was

Quote
The funny thing is that no one is trying to force it on you or anyone else.  Gay couples want, and should be afforded, the same rights as you and me.  Homosexuality is not going away no matter how much you wish it would.  A church can decide not to marry anyone, and they're within their rights to do so, but the government has no place trying to determine what constitutes a legal union.  See your above point about government staying the hell out of people's lives.

Oh, there is most definitely an "agenda" still out there and you know it. I believe gays are entitled the same rights, except not to be "officially" married.

Quote
The Constitution was written well over 200 years ago.  Times change, and how things were back then do not always apply to modern times.

I completely disagree. Most of what was intended in our Constitution can still be followed today.

Quote
9/11 happened partly because of US policies abroad.  Other countries saw our policies as trying to establish dominance over others. You get the government to keep carrying on like that, and you'll get more attacks, not less.

so you condone that kind of response to our supposed bad policies abroad? Surely there are better ways for other countries to disagree with our policies without resorting to 9/11 type crap. Can you imagine, with our military might, if we thought the same way as those neanderthals? And conservatives are the un-intelligent ones? lol

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« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2010, 06:27:23 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 04:44:47 PM

-do not seperate religion and state. This country was founded on christian beliefs, and so it shall remain the dominant religion.

Quote from: U.S. Constitution
Article 6, Section 3
The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Quote from: First Amendment
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Quote from: Treaty of Tripoli, 1796, Article 11
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Deism (pronounced /ˈdiːɪzəm/, us dict: dē′·ĭzm)[1][2] in the philosophy of religion is the standpoint that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that a supreme being created the universe. Further the term often implies that this supreme being does not intervene in human affairs or suspend the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending to assert that God (or "The Supreme Architect") has a plan for the universe that is not to be altered by intervention in the affairs of human life. Most deists see holy books not as authoritative divine revelations but as human interpretations.
...
In the United States, Enlightenment philosophy (which itself was heavily inspired by deist ideals) played a major role in creating the principle of religious freedom, expressed in Thomas Jefferson's letters, and the principle of religious freedom expressed in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. American Founding Fathers, or Framers of the Constitution, who were especially noted for being influenced by such philosophy include Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Cornelius Harnett, Gouverneur Morris, and Hugh Williamson. Their political speeches show distinct deistic influence.

Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, John Adams, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen,[38] and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout America and Europe).

...
Benjamin Franklin wrote in his autobiography, "Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
The idea that this nation was founded on solely Christian principles is not grounded in fact.
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« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2010, 06:35:12 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 05:55:37 PM

Things were not exactly unfair before, were they? This stuff about teachers getting in trouble because they put up a traditional Christmas decoration in their classroom is one example of what i'm talking about.

I agree with you that some things have been taken too far.  However, why stop there?  If you're going to allow traditional Christmas decorations, then a Muslim teacher should be afforded the right to decorate their classroom with traditional Muslim decorations.  As should the Jewish teacher, and the Buddhist teacher and so forth.  Something about freedom of religion and such.

Quote

then what's with the uproar over Arizona lately?

The uproar over Arizona has nothing to do with the government trying to control illegal immigration, but rather of the situations that said enforcement could create by individuals whose responsibilities are not to enforce immigration.  I assume, hopefully correctly, that you are a white male, so these situations would not apply to you, but they would to me and anyone who doesn't fit a certain profile.  That's racial profiling, which last I checked was illegal.  What happens when a police officer pulls over a natural born citizen who is of dark complexion and does not have proof of citizenship?  Cart them off to jail?  Ship them off to Mexico?  Where does it stop?

Quote
Oh, there is most definitely an "agenda" still out there and you know it. I believe gays are entitled the same rights, except not to be "officially" married.

If by "agenda" you mean a civil rights movement, then yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  This is the same kind of "agenda" that African Americans and women fought for in the 20th century.  By saying that you believe gays are entitled to the same rights except the right to be officially married, shows that you don't believe gays are entitled to the same rights as you or any other straight person in this country.  

Quote
I completely disagree. Most of what was intended in our Constitution can still be followed today.

The Constitution was written by white, slave owners in a time when women had little to no rights.  You mean to tell me that the things that they said, wrote, and did cannot be interpreted differently in modern society?

Quote
so you condone that kind of response to our supposed bad policies abroad? Surely there are better ways for other countries to disagree with our policies without resorting to 9/11 type crap. Can you imagine, with our military might, if we thought the same way as those neanderthals? And conservatives are the un-intelligent ones? lol

When did I ever say I condoned of terrorist attacks on the USA?  That being said, you do realize that the jihad against the US has to do with our actions abroad, right?  It's not like Muslim extremists randomly chose the US to attack.  The attacks were retaliatory to our policies and actions, especially those to do with Israel.  They see Israel as the enemy, the US supports and supplies Israel, therefore the US is the enemy too.

Now don't go putting words in my mouth, as I'm not condoning of any actions or threats made by or against the US.  Just stating the facts.
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« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2010, 07:00:26 PM »

Quote
I agree with you that some things have been taken too far.  However, why stop there?  If you're going to allow traditional Christmas decorations, then a Muslim teacher should be afforded the right to decorate their classroom with traditional Muslim decorations.  As should the Jewish teacher, and the Buddhist teacher and so forth.  Something about freedom of religion and such.

I'm for that. But it hasn't gone that way recently, instead anything involving Christianity has been attacked, shunned, and with attempted removal.

Quote
The uproar over Arizona has nothing to do with the government trying to control illegal immigration, but rather of the situations that said enforcement could create by individuals whose responsibilities are not to enforce immigration.  I assume, hopefully correctly, that you are a white male, so these situations would not apply to you, but they would to me and anyone who doesn't fit a certain profile.  That's racial profiling, which last I checked was illegal.  What happens when a police officer pulls over a natural born citizen who is of dark complexion and does not have proof of citizenship?  Cart them off to jail?  Ship them off to Mexico?  Where does it stop?

As a white male, I have been "profiled" as well.....and even mentioned it in the OO forums when it happened. But it wasn't that big a deal and I understood why it happened and was glad for it if it meant keeping the 'bad elements' at bay.

Quote
If by "agenda" you mean a civil rights movement, then yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly.  This is the same kind of "agenda" that African Americans and women fought for in the 20th century.  By saying that you believe gays are entitled to the same rights except the right to be officially married, shows that you don't believe gays are entitled to the same rights as you or any other straight person in this country. 

Oh, come on. If you've watched True Blood at all this season it was obvious that 'gay producer=gay love' on the show. And while I could have chosen not to watch the show, the fact that it was an agenda was obvious. And should I even need to mention Barney Frank and his agenda?  icon_eek

Quote
The Constitution was written by white, slave owners in a time when women had little to no rights.  You mean to tell me that the things that they said, wrote, and did cannot be interpreted differently in modern society?

That's your interpretation of how it was. But even if it's 100% true still doesn't mean that your beliefs on how things should be here now are 100% correct. I may be conservative, but i'm not completely rigid. Are you?

Quote
When did I ever say I condoned of terrorist attacks on the USA?  That being said, you do realize that the jihad against the US has to do with our actions abroad, right?  It's not like Muslim extremists randomly chose the US to attack.  The attacks were retaliatory to our policies and actions, especially those to do with Israel.  They see Israel as the enemy, the US supports and supplies Israel, therefore the US is the enemy too.

Just the fact alone that you are willing to give them any justification in doing something like that shows me where you stand. There's one question I love to ask liberals......if liberals are so anti-war, anti-defense spending, how long do you think it would be before an aggressive nation would take advantage of it? Who would you rather be living under in this country? Who are really your enemies? The Chinese? Russians? Iranians? Jews? Conservatives? Do me a favor and rank each of these on your "enemy" scale.


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« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2010, 07:02:43 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on November 04, 2010, 07:00:26 PM

Oh, come on. If you've watched True Blood at all this season it was obvious that 'gay producer=gay love' on the show. And while I could have chosen not to watch the show, the fact that it was an agenda was obvious. And should I even need to mention Barney Frank and his agenda?  icon_eek

There are lots of shows I don't agree with on television and lots of shows I don't watch. To think that any of the ones I don't agree with have some sort of "agenda" is a bit much. Do the producers of reality shows have an "agenda" to make people more stupid?
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