http://gamingtrend.com
November 28, 2014, 09:52:47 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: I may have just become a believer in universal healthcare  (Read 35863 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #120 on: April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM »

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

As for the open-market perspective: Do you have hospitals competing for business due to lower rates? What about transparency for their death rates, customer satisfaction etc? Open MARKET needs to be a marketplace with competition. Medical assistance is generally arranged due to ability and proximity, not whether you can roll-back prices on Advil and save a buck-and-a-half per pill you take at Hospital X over Hospital Y.

The Canadian system is strained BECAUSE of the privatized health care in the States. Do you think, at 10 times our population, that were you to adopt a similar model that contains limits to spending and cost as the medical assistance is on the government budget, that we'd be losing 20% of our doctors to Mexico or Brazil? Were you to limit the amount of ridiculous money paid out due to the profiteering, do you think those doctors would be uprooting for a marginal pay increase?

I'm not suggesting you fix our doctor export problem, but you also get a lot of other Canadian immigrants. Whether it be the cold or the perceived "opportunity",  we're still training doctors, and we're still keeping a lot of them.

As I see it, having the right to be treated as an equal, both socially, legally AND medically, stands for the right and the just more than the pipe dream that "open market regulation" offers. Fact of the matter is this: we in Canada suffer from longer wait times as we're losing doctors because our system is national - not universal. You suffer because you're not even national. The open-market concept only works if it TOO is universal- given the geographical nature of our two nations, a well-implemented plan that removes profits from corporate structure in the medicinal industry and the self-serving needs of the pharmaceutical firms means that you have a genuine use for your tax dollars... just like your police and your roads.

Unless of course, you also advocate free-lance police. Let's give Sam'n'Max a call, shall we?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 05:51:34 PM by Purge » Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Farscry
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4004



View Profile
« Reply #121 on: April 15, 2009, 06:40:51 PM »

I wonder if, when I finish pre-med, I could go to med school in Canada at reduced cost if I then committed to practicing medicine in Canada? I'd be fine with that.
Logged

Purge - You have unlocked an Achievement!
You are now of the rank reprobate
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #122 on: April 15, 2009, 08:34:00 PM »

As I understand it, there are incentives for Canadian trained doctors to stay in Canada. I also know of programs where working in rural communities also offers incentives.
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #123 on: April 15, 2009, 08:53:41 PM »

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 08:34:00 PM

As I understand it, there are incentives for Canadian trained doctors to stay in Canada. I also know of programs where working in rural communities also offers incentives.
Like teachers in the U.S. that are bribed with loan waivers if they work at an inner city school?  icon_wink
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #124 on: April 15, 2009, 09:00:36 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on April 15, 2009, 08:53:41 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 08:34:00 PM

As I understand it, there are incentives for Canadian trained doctors to stay in Canada. I also know of programs where working in rural communities also offers incentives.
Like teachers in the U.S. that are bribed with loan waivers if they work at an inner city school?  icon_wink

Bribed?  It's a free market incentive...
Logged
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM »

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2009, 12:20:47 AM by Eightball » Logged
Crux
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1543



View Profile
« Reply #126 on: April 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM »

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.

Minority percentage does not equate to multiculturalism.
Logged
Farscry
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 4004



View Profile
« Reply #127 on: April 16, 2009, 01:45:35 PM »

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 08:34:00 PM

As I understand it, there are incentives for Canadian trained doctors to stay in Canada.

But is that open to international students?

I'd seriously consider it, but I would have a hard time convincing my fiancee. She hates winter and wants to move further south, not north. The financial benefits could sway her though.
Logged

Purge - You have unlocked an Achievement!
You are now of the rank reprobate
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #128 on: April 16, 2009, 01:53:46 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on April 16, 2009, 01:45:35 PM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 08:34:00 PM

As I understand it, there are incentives for Canadian trained doctors to stay in Canada.

But is that open to international students?

I'd seriously consider it, but I would have a hard time convincing my fiancee. She hates winter and wants to move further south, not north. The financial benefits could sway her though.

International doctor info for Canada.  I don't see mention of any incentives, but it's not a particularly readable site.
Logged
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #129 on: April 16, 2009, 06:09:32 PM »

Quote from: Crux on April 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.

Minority percentage does not equate to multiculturalism.

WOW!!!!  No kidding????

Sigh.

Purge used the word "multicultural" incorrectly in response to my post, which I've kindly copied for your perusal below.  My post relates to race, and racially restricted diseases, and note, I did not refer to culture.  JUST RACE.

Quote
Yeah I know, and it's also related to socioeconomic status.  Though the fact that the US is a racial melting pot pretty much unparalleled in the world, means we're often encountered with more racially-restricted diseases than other countries (i.e., sickle-cell anemia, etc.)

Thanks.  Valuable contribution there, Crux.
Logged
Crux
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1543



View Profile
« Reply #130 on: April 16, 2009, 07:26:19 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 06:09:32 PM

Quote from: Crux on April 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.

Minority percentage does not equate to multiculturalism.

WOW!!!!  No kidding????

Sigh.

Purge used the word "multicultural" incorrectly in response to my post, which I've kindly copied for your perusal below.  My post relates to race, and racially restricted diseases, and note, I did not refer to culture.  JUST RACE.

Quote
Yeah I know, and it's also related to socioeconomic status.  Though the fact that the US is a racial melting pot pretty much unparalleled in the world, means we're often encountered with more racially-restricted diseases than other countries (i.e., sickle-cell anemia, etc.)

Thanks.  Valuable contribution there, Crux.

Well holy shit. I misread your post slightly. I'm a terrible bad person and deserve to have sarcasm and ridicule heaped upon me. WTF ever happened to a little polite conversation? Valuable shitty attitude there, Eightball.
Logged
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #131 on: April 17, 2009, 01:31:06 PM »

Quote from: Crux on April 16, 2009, 07:26:19 PM

Well holy shit. I misread your post slightly. I'm a terrible bad person and deserve to have sarcasm and ridicule heaped upon me. WTF ever happened to a little polite conversation? Valuable shitty attitude there, Eightball.

 icon_lol

I seriously LOVE pulling your chain ever after your explosion in IRC after the Italy-Australia WC game.

You never disappoint me slywink
Logged
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #132 on: May 21, 2009, 01:53:39 PM »

I would like to thank all the alcoholics for paying for my health care. Drink up folks. I have a Dr's appointment next week. And don't even think about pulling another Whiskey Rebellion. Freedom isn't free.
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Ironrod
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3415



View Profile WWW
« Reply #133 on: May 21, 2009, 03:43:30 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 21, 2009, 01:53:39 PM

I would like to thank all the alcoholics for paying for my health care. Drink up folks. I have a Dr's appointment next week. And don't even think about pulling another Whiskey Rebellion. Freedom isn't free.

Lovely. Massachusetts just raised our sales tax and extended it to alcohol for the first time, so we're already facing a 6.25% beer price hike. If they go through with this I will be adding another soberday to each week.
Logged

Curio City Online - Weird stuff you can buy
Curious Business - The Curio City Blog
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #134 on: May 22, 2009, 02:56:11 AM »

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 06:09:32 PM

Quote from: Crux on April 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.

Minority percentage does not equate to multiculturalism.

WOW!!!!  No kidding????

Sigh.

Purge used the word "multicultural" incorrectly in response to my post, which I've kindly copied for your perusal below.  My post relates to race, and racially restricted diseases, and note, I did not refer to culture.  JUST RACE.

Quote
Yeah I know, and it's also related to socioeconomic status.  Though the fact that the US is a racial melting pot pretty much unparalleled in the world, means we're often encountered with more racially-restricted diseases than other countries (i.e., sickle-cell anemia, etc.)

Thanks.  Valuable contribution there, Crux.

Actually, what you're doing is singling out the visible minorities. So effectively I need a different colour skin to be considered multicultural, even though I am fluent in two languages?

Compare apples to apples:

Canadian    32.22%
English    21.03%
French    18.82%
Scottish    15.11%
Irish    13.94%
German    10.18%
Italian    4.63%
Chinese    4.31%
North American Indian    4.01%
Ukrainian    3.87%
Dutch (Netherlands)    3.31%
Polish    3.15%
East Indian    3.08%
Russian    1.60%
Welsh    1.41%
Filipino    1.40%
Norwegian    1.38%
Portuguese    1.32%
Métis    1.31%
Swedish    1.07%
Latin American    1.04%
Hungarian    1.01%
Jewish    1.01%

Only 32% of our "white" population identified themselves as the melted "Canadian". Less than one out of three.... subtract the 16% of visible minorities, and you're looking at roughtly 26% of our population who said I'm "canadian" without any cultural additions to it.

Let's look at what your 2000 census states:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_Census)

Quote
75.1% of respondents said they were White or Caucasian and no other race.

But you are so clever, I'm sure that somehow I'm wrong. You don't need to belabour the point, just sit there and be proud of yourself.

I mean, the only people who don't care about colour are the blind, and that's only 21.2 million Americans and 635,000 Canadians, so you're just talking about important people.
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #135 on: May 22, 2009, 06:13:23 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 22, 2009, 02:56:11 AM

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 06:09:32 PM

Quote from: Crux on April 16, 2009, 12:38:38 AM

Quote from: Eightball on April 16, 2009, 12:17:35 AM

Quote from: Purge on April 15, 2009, 05:46:47 PM

Actually, Canada is a multi-cultural nation. We end up melting though through generations rather than at the time of entry to the country. We have just as much diversity in population as you do. Try having two national languages ... if I'm not mistaken we have some nations out there with 3+... I fail to see how you are so different in the challenges you face.

Canada is indeed multicultural, but the population of Canada is far more racially homogenous than in the United States.

2006 data:  Total minority percentage in Canada is 16.2%
2006 data:  Total minority percentage in the US is roughly 34%.

Slight difference.

Minority percentage does not equate to multiculturalism.

WOW!!!!  No kidding????

Sigh.

Purge used the word "multicultural" incorrectly in response to my post, which I've kindly copied for your perusal below.  My post relates to race, and racially restricted diseases, and note, I did not refer to culture.  JUST RACE.

Quote
Yeah I know, and it's also related to socioeconomic status.  Though the fact that the US is a racial melting pot pretty much unparalleled in the world, means we're often encountered with more racially-restricted diseases than other countries (i.e., sickle-cell anemia, etc.)

Thanks.  Valuable contribution there, Crux.

Actually, what you're doing is singling out the visible minorities. So effectively I need a different colour skin to be considered multicultural, even though I am fluent in two languages?

Compare apples to apples:

Canadian    32.22%
English    21.03%
French    18.82%
Scottish    15.11%
Irish    13.94%
German    10.18%
Italian    4.63%
Chinese    4.31%
North American Indian    4.01%
Ukrainian    3.87%
Dutch (Netherlands)    3.31%
Polish    3.15%
East Indian    3.08%
Russian    1.60%
Welsh    1.41%
Filipino    1.40%
Norwegian    1.38%
Portuguese    1.32%
Métis    1.31%
Swedish    1.07%
Latin American    1.04%
Hungarian    1.01%
Jewish    1.01%

Only 32% of our "white" population identified themselves as the melted "Canadian". Less than one out of three.... subtract the 16% of visible minorities, and you're looking at roughtly 26% of our population who said I'm "canadian" without any cultural additions to it.

Let's look at what your 2000 census states:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_Census)

Quote
75.1% of respondents said they were White or Caucasian and no other race.

But you are so clever, I'm sure that somehow I'm wrong. You don't need to belabour the point, just sit there and be proud of yourself.

I mean, the only people who don't care about colour are the blind, and that's only 21.2 million Americans and 635,000 Canadians, so you're just talking about important people.

I'd like to be clever and proud of myself, but I have no fucking idea what you just posted.
Logged
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #136 on: May 22, 2009, 06:17:26 PM »

Read it then; tasting the monitor isn't going to clue you in.

You used visible minority count to determine ethnic variance and cultural identity.

AKA : anyone white cannot be anything other than "Canadian" therefore having only 16% visible minority means we shouldn't consider ourselves multi- cultural in contrast to the USA.

I think I just figured out why you people have so many problems with recognizing other cultures. Apparently we need to color-code ourselves.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 06:19:14 PM by Purge » Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #137 on: May 22, 2009, 11:54:17 PM »

Quote from: Purge on May 22, 2009, 06:17:26 PM

Read it then; tasting the monitor isn't going to clue you in.

You used visible minority count to determine ethnic variance and cultural identity.

AKA : anyone white cannot be anything other than "Canadian" therefore having only 16% visible minority means we shouldn't consider ourselves multi- cultural in contrast to the USA.

I think I just figured out why you people have so many problems with recognizing other cultures. Apparently we need to color-code ourselves.

Uh...you do know there's a difference between race and culture, right, which is what Crux was pointing out earlier?

Quote
So effectively I need a different colour skin to be considered multicultural

Apparently...not.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 01:21:08 PM by Eightball » Logged
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #138 on: May 23, 2009, 03:22:02 AM »

Purge, I think Eightball has you there.

Just because, say, David Beckham is English doesn't make him of a different race than me, because we're both white.

We may come from different cultures, but not different races.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #139 on: May 23, 2009, 04:15:28 AM »

Quote from: Numb3rs
Race is a human construct.

Feel free to keep arguing about something that doesn't exist. At most there are difference in culture or ethnicity. The concept of "race" is bullshit.
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #140 on: May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 04:15:28 AM

Quote from: Numb3rs
Race is a human construct.

Feel free to keep arguing about something that doesn't exist. At most there are difference in culture or ethnicity. The concept of "race" is bullshit.


Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

By that definition, morality is something that doesn't exist, and is therefore bullshit, because morality, after all, is a human construct.

By that definition, laws are something that don't exist, and are therefore bullshit, because laws, after all, are a human construct.

By that definition, religion is something that doesn't exist, and is therefore bullshit, because religion, after all, is a human construct.

Nicely done.  Way to nullify all human constructs as things that don't exist.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #141 on: May 23, 2009, 01:40:17 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM

Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

I would like to hear your objective definition of race.
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #142 on: May 23, 2009, 02:27:11 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 01:40:17 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM

Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

I would like to hear your objective definition of race.

Not until you defend your totally inane claim that race, because it's a human construct, doesn't exist, which in turn nullifies all human constructs as things that doesn't exist.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #143 on: May 23, 2009, 02:49:56 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 02:27:11 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 01:40:17 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM

Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

I would like to hear your objective definition of race.

Not until you defend your totally inane claim that race, because it's a human construct, doesn't exist, which in turn nullifies all human constructs as things that doesn't exist.

My claim is based on the fact that you can't objectively define "race". It's a made up term by people who want to arbitrarily classify a group of people as being lesser than themselves.
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #144 on: May 23, 2009, 02:56:53 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 02:27:11 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 01:40:17 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM

Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

I would like to hear your objective definition of race.

Not until you defend your totally inane claim that race, because it's a human construct, doesn't exist, which in turn nullifies all human constructs as things that doesn't exist.

My claim is based on the fact that you can't objectively define "race". It's a made up term by people who want to arbitrarily classify a group of people as being lesser than themselves.

Wow.  What a horrible, judgmental claim.

I guess because of that, I shouldn't be surprised that you still do NOTHING to rectify the fact that your definition wipes all other human constructs out of existence simply because they're human constructs.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Autistic Angel
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3677


View Profile
« Reply #145 on: May 23, 2009, 03:06:45 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 02:49:56 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 02:27:11 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 01:40:17 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 04:33:42 AM

Because race is a human construct, that instantly means it doesn't exist?

I would like to hear your objective definition of race.

Not until you defend your totally inane claim that race, because it's a human construct, doesn't exist, which in turn nullifies all human constructs as things that doesn't exist.

My claim is based on the fact that you can't objectively define "race". It's a made up term by people who want to arbitrarily classify a group of people as being lesser than themselves.

I would like to hear your objective definition of "sad." 

Unless you provide a satisfactory one, we'll have no choice but to classify it as a term made up by people who want to market anti-depressants.

-Autistic Angel
Logged
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2009, 03:09:55 PM »

Let me expand on what I've been saying a little bit.

Your basic claim is this: because race is a human construct, it doesn't exist.

Let's assign letters to each.  Let's make race a, human construct b, doesn't exist c.

If a = b, and a = c, then b = c.  Basic mathematical principle.  The same mathematical principle also holds that if a = b, and b = c, then a = c.

By that basic mathematical principle, if I keep b and c constant, but substitute anything else in for a that equals b, then it also equals c.

Let's take morality, from my original post.

Morality (a) = human construct (b).

Human construct (b) = doesn't exist (c).

Therefore, morality (a) = doesn't exist (c).

Let's go one further, since you seem to want an objective answer to the definition of race.

Objectivism (a) = human construct (b).

Human construct (b) = doesn't exist (c).

Therefore, objectivism (a) = doesn't exist (c).

QED.

I, for one, would not like to subscribe to that newsletter.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2009, 03:26:41 PM »

It amuses me how you keep proving my point. Race is portrayed as a scientific and biological fact. Therefore it should have an objective definition. I announce that it's a human construct similar to your "sad" and "moral" examples and therefore is open to subjective interpretations. And yet people refer to it as a self-evident reality. It's not. At best it's a way for lazy bureaucrats to categorize the citizens. At worst it's a way to subjugate a people by arbitrary definitions.
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #148 on: May 23, 2009, 03:44:45 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 03:26:41 PM

It amuses me how you keep proving my point. Race is portrayed as a scientific and biological fact. Therefore it should have an objective definition. I announce that it's a human construct similar to your "sad" and "moral" examples and therefore is open to subjective interpretations. And yet people refer to it as a self-evident reality. It's not. At best it's a way for lazy bureaucrats to categorize the citizens. At worst it's a way to subjugate a people by arbitrary definitions.

If I'm proving that you're delusional when it comes to this subject, then yes, I'm proving your point.

When you state that race is a human construct, and race doesn't exist as a result, you are also stating that all human constructs don't exist.

It's evident that you don't get that.  While your argument may be right, the way you're going about it is totally flawed.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #149 on: May 23, 2009, 03:48:37 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 03:44:45 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 03:26:41 PM

It amuses me how you keep proving my point. Race is portrayed as a scientific and biological fact. Therefore it should have an objective definition. I announce that it's a human construct similar to your "sad" and "moral" examples and therefore is open to subjective interpretations. And yet people refer to it as a self-evident reality. It's not. At best it's a way for lazy bureaucrats to categorize the citizens. At worst it's a way to subjugate a people by arbitrary definitions.

If I'm proving that you're delusional when it comes to this subject, then yes, I'm proving your point.

When you state that race is a human construct, and race doesn't exist as a result, you are also stating that all human constructs don't exist.

It's evident that you don't get that.  While your argument may be right, the way you're going about it is totally flawed.

Fine, instead of saying that race doesn't exist I will say that it is arbitrary and subjective. Do we both agree now?
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
pr0ner
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5375


Go Flames go!


View Profile
« Reply #150 on: May 23, 2009, 03:51:09 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 03:48:37 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on May 23, 2009, 03:44:45 PM

Quote from: Moliere on May 23, 2009, 03:26:41 PM

It amuses me how you keep proving my point. Race is portrayed as a scientific and biological fact. Therefore it should have an objective definition. I announce that it's a human construct similar to your "sad" and "moral" examples and therefore is open to subjective interpretations. And yet people refer to it as a self-evident reality. It's not. At best it's a way for lazy bureaucrats to categorize the citizens. At worst it's a way to subjugate a people by arbitrary definitions.

If I'm proving that you're delusional when it comes to this subject, then yes, I'm proving your point.

When you state that race is a human construct, and race doesn't exist as a result, you are also stating that all human constructs don't exist.

It's evident that you don't get that.  While your argument may be right, the way you're going about it is totally flawed.

Fine, instead of saying that race doesn't exist I will say that it is arbitrary and subjective. Do we both agree now?

Yep.
Logged

XBox Live Gamertag: Pr0ner
Moliere
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5110



View Profile
« Reply #151 on: June 16, 2009, 02:44:52 PM »

Yay for change.

Quote
But as the president spoke at the annual conference of the American Medical Association in Chicago, it became clear that one of the major health plans on the table would cost at least $1 trillion over 10 years yet leave tens of millions of people uninsured.

How will we pay this $1 Trillion tab? Tax increases of course.

Quote
Congress is wrestling with how to pay for Mr. Obama’s vision to extend health care to all Americans, and some lawmakers are considering tax increases and spending cuts different from the ones he has proposed. House Democrats, for example, are weighing a tax on soft drinks and a value-added tax, a broad-based consumption tax similar to the sales taxes many states levy.

I can't wait to get me some of that free health care.  Roll Eyes
Logged

That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #152 on: June 16, 2009, 03:51:02 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on May 22, 2009, 11:54:17 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 22, 2009, 06:17:26 PM

Read it then; tasting the monitor isn't going to clue you in.

You used visible minority count to determine ethnic variance and cultural identity.

AKA : anyone white cannot be anything other than "Canadian" therefore having only 16% visible minority means we shouldn't consider ourselves multi- cultural in contrast to the USA.

I think I just figured out why you people have so many problems with recognizing other cultures. Apparently we need to color-code ourselves.

Uh...you do know there's a difference between race and culture, right, which is what Crux was pointing out earlier?

Quote
So effectively I need a different colour skin to be considered multicultural

Apparently...not.

You are right, I misread racially homogeneous to mean culturally homogeneous. I don't see how that had any relevance to my point, so I saw objection rather than observation. I apologize.
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18616



View Profile WWW
« Reply #153 on: June 16, 2009, 03:51:57 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 16, 2009, 02:44:52 PM

Yay for change.

Quote
But as the president spoke at the annual conference of the American Medical Association in Chicago, it became clear that one of the major health plans on the table would cost at least $1 trillion over 10 years yet leave tens of millions of people uninsured.

How will we pay this $1 Trillion tab? Tax increases of course.

Quote
Congress is wrestling with how to pay for Mr. Obama’s vision to extend health care to all Americans, and some lawmakers are considering tax increases and spending cuts different from the ones he has proposed. House Democrats, for example, are weighing a tax on soft drinks and a value-added tax, a broad-based consumption tax similar to the sales taxes many states levy.

I can't wait to get me some of that free health care.  Roll Eyes

because soda-pop is more important than life. slywink
Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #154 on: June 16, 2009, 03:57:12 PM »

Moliere, we get it.  You're against universal health care.  However, two basic facts remain.  One, we spend more as a country (as a percentage of GDP and per capita) on health care than any other Western country in the world.  Two, our level of care, by almost every conceivable measure, is not superior (and in many ways is inferior) to these same countries.  As a result, it can be said that the free market has failed.  So what's your solution to fix this mess of an industry when the free market is unable or unwilling to fix itself?

Also, while you are formulating your response, keep in mind that the Golden Rule is not "he who has the gold makes the rules".  Also keep in mind the axiom that "absolute power corrupts absolutely".  If your claim (as it usually is) is that somehow health care isn't a free market enterprise, please provide examples AND detail how the removal of these restrictions would reduce cost and improve care.  Finally, if you mention tort reform, you have to turn in your libertarian card entirely.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 03:58:46 PM by Blackadar » Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
brettmcd
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1355


View Profile
« Reply #155 on: June 16, 2009, 04:18:55 PM »

One thing that I think would help with the costs of health care as related to malpractice insurance costs is some type of loser pays system for lawsuits.    Right now insurance companies and Drs settle lawsuits they know they could win, because the cost of a settlement is less then the cost of defending themselves.   Lawyers know this and take advantage of that with lawsuits they know they couldnt win in the courtroom.   I would never be in favor of capping awards on lawsuits, as that just has the benefit of protecting Drs who do make errors they need to be held accountable for.

And I would not say that our level of care is not superior to other countries, if that was true why do so many people from other countries come here for health care?
Logged
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #156 on: June 16, 2009, 05:29:29 PM »

I just received an email from my company that my health care premiums at my company are going up 29% this year.  It's looking like it's going to cost me $1,400 per month to insure a family of 3 with no major health conditions.  I've shopped plans (I've now had 3 within the last year) and anything cheaper is so restrictive (it doesn't seem like anything is really covered) I may be better off not carrying coverage, keeping the money and storing it in a hidden offshore account and then declaring bankruptcy if something major happens.

I spend more on health care than I do on my mortgage.

Also, on this tangent, my coverage before this current coverage decided not to cover my wife's pregnancy.  They said there was some sort of optional pregnancy coverage (something that was never disclosed) that wasn't presented to us.  All of our literature made it look like we had pregnancy coverage, but they're still saying we don't.  We can't sue, because we really can't afford to AND we'd have to get past the "binding arbitration" (which finds in favor of the company about 95% of the time) clause found in every insurance policy.  So I'm stuck paying another $3,500 in pregnancy care out of pocket in addition to the $1,100 I currently pay in premiums...and I have no idea what the hospital costs will be. 

Fuck this system...and anyone who doesn't think it needs fixing.
Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
brettmcd
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1355


View Profile
« Reply #157 on: June 16, 2009, 05:32:32 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 16, 2009, 05:29:29 PM

I just received an email from my company that my health care premiums at my company are going up 29% this year.  It's looking like it's going to cost me $1,400 per month to insure a family of 3 with no major health conditions.  I've shopped plans (I've now had 3 within the last year) and anything cheaper is so restrictive (it doesn't seem like anything is really covered) I may be better off not carrying coverage, keeping the money and storing it in a hidden offshore account and then declaring bankruptcy if something major happens.

I spend more on health care than I do on my mortgage.

Also, on this tangent, my coverage before this current coverage decided not to cover my wife's pregnancy.  They said there was some sort of optional pregnancy coverage (something that was never disclosed) that wasn't presented to us.  All of our literature made it look like we had pregnancy coverage, but they're still saying we don't.  We can't sue, because we really can't afford to AND we'd have to get past the "binding arbitration" (which finds in favor of the company about 95% of the time) clause found in every insurance policy.  So I'm stuck paying another $3,500 in pregnancy care out of pocket in addition to the $1,100 I currently pay in premiums...and I have no idea what the hospital costs will be. 

Fuck this system...and anyone who doesn't think it needs fixing.

Of course there are things that need to be fixed, but giving it to the feds isnt going to make all these problems magically go away somehow.   We just dont have the tax money to pay for it with all the other stuff the feds want to do.
Logged
Eightball
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1387


View Profile
« Reply #158 on: June 16, 2009, 05:39:09 PM »

Quote from: Purge on June 16, 2009, 03:51:02 PM

Quote from: Eightball on May 22, 2009, 11:54:17 PM

Quote from: Purge on May 22, 2009, 06:17:26 PM

Read it then; tasting the monitor isn't going to clue you in.

You used visible minority count to determine ethnic variance and cultural identity.

AKA : anyone white cannot be anything other than "Canadian" therefore having only 16% visible minority means we shouldn't consider ourselves multi- cultural in contrast to the USA.

I think I just figured out why you people have so many problems with recognizing other cultures. Apparently we need to color-code ourselves.

Uh...you do know there's a difference between race and culture, right, which is what Crux was pointing out earlier?

Quote
So effectively I need a different colour skin to be considered multicultural

Apparently...not.

You are right, I misread racially homogeneous to mean culturally homogeneous. I don't see how that had any relevance to my point, so I saw objection rather than observation. I apologize.

No sweat, Purge.
Logged
TiLT
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Online Online

Posts: 6711


Preaching to the choir


View Profile WWW
« Reply #159 on: June 16, 2009, 05:41:38 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 16, 2009, 02:44:52 PM

I can't wait to get me some of that free health care.  Roll Eyes

I love arguing with stubborn, near-sighted people. Whoever said anything about free? It's just paid for in a scaling way through regular taxes (that will become larger. There's really no way around that without cutting other things. As I said, it's not free). And since it's a tax, it's distributed more evenly among the income scale, allowing even the poorest of the poor or the unluckiest of the unlucky to enjoy the benefits of health care without becoming personally bankrupt.

Next time I recommend at least pretending to have listened to the argument that has been going on before your post before, you know, posting?  icon_razz
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 16   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.23 seconds with 103 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.067s, 2q)