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Author Topic: I'm Voting Republican  (Read 6733 times)
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DarkEL
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« on: June 13, 2008, 05:00:31 AM »

This video is awesome!!


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Moliere
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 05:26:03 AM »

thumbsdown
from the South Park Republican
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ATB
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 12:22:41 PM »

meh.

I wonder if there will be a counterpoint for the democrats.

I'm voting democrat because I think unborn children are just clumps of cells to be used for our benefit.- Tina Toney, Self-absorbed one night stander with no moral compass.

I'm voting democrat because I prefer super liberal interpretations of the constitution that call into question foundational values of this country- Joan Chintock, ACLU henchwoman.

I'm voting democrat because everyone should be having sex no matter how young and all lifestyles, no matter how deviant should be embraced for their differences.- Angus Smith, NAMBLA President

etc etc.
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Brendan
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 01:00:08 PM »

Quote from: ATB on June 13, 2008, 12:22:41 PM

I'm voting democrat because everyone should be having sex no matter how young and all lifestyles, no matter how deviant should be embraced for their differences.- Angus Smith, NAMBLA President

You can't be serious.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 01:02:30 PM »

Bah.   thumbsdown

Surprised?

While I'm probably the most vocal independent/liberal on this board, I'm not in favor of such inane sound bytes.  It doens't really help further the discussion or really address the issues in a meaningful way.  When the issues are rationally discussed, the outcome is that the Republicans' positions are often shown to be illogical, irrational, fearful and deceptive.  As such, I'd rather have the in-depth analysis of such issues and let the Democrats' ideas stand on their own.  I'm very confident with the outcome of such a debate.

Unfortunately, most of the "conservatives" (I use that term with quotes because most aren't true conservatives) on this board know their positions are lacking in substance and therefore resort to Fox News sound bytes to create wedge issues rather than have real debates.  They can't, or won't, truly address the issues and they resort to race, religion and fear to try to justify their stances.
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DarkEL
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 01:15:57 PM »

You guys with the  thumbsdown are far too sensitive.

It's just meant to be a funny video. Yes, they could easily make one about the democrats... or the christians...or the atheists. And someone probably will.

sheesh.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 01:25:08 PM »

Quote from: DarkEL on June 13, 2008, 01:15:57 PM

You guys with the  thumbsdown are far too sensitive.

It's just meant to be a funny video. Yes, they could easily make one about the democrats... or the christians...or the atheists. And someone probably will.

sheesh.

Nah, I just don't like that stooping to that level of discourse (though when I do so I don't pull any punches). 

It's been the Republican MO for years, but I hate to see Dems do it because I think the liberal ideas are superior to those of fearful conservatives and they stand on their own.  However, it may be a political reality that we'll need to stoop to the Republican "swift-boat" and "McCain's black baby" level because it's been shown to be effective.  But I'm hoping to avoid it as much as possible - it feels like we're selling out our principals.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 02:30:33 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 01:00:08 PM

Quote from: ATB on June 13, 2008, 12:22:41 PM

I'm voting democrat because everyone should be having sex no matter how young and all lifestyles, no matter how deviant should be embraced for their differences.- Angus Smith, NAMBLA President

You can't be serious.
Yeah, ATB, wtf?
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McBa1n
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 02:43:34 PM »

Man, that was really funny.
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cheeba
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 02:55:58 PM »

Wasn't funny at all. Was like an awful SNL sketch, where the joke is clear from the outset and they keep trying to ram it home to make it funny. I get it, they're sarcastic.

I was thinking maybe I'm not finding it funny because I lean conservative, but I find other stuff making fun of Republicans funny. Will Ferrell as Bush makes me laugh every time.

So, in conclusion, yeah, not funny.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 02:59:36 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 13, 2008, 02:55:58 PM

Wasn't funny at all. Was like an awful SNL sketch, where the joke is clear from the outset and they keep trying to ram it home to make it funny. I get it, they're sarcastic.

I was thinking maybe I'm not finding it funny because I lean conservative, but I find other stuff making fun of Republicans funny. Will Ferrell as Bush makes me laugh every time.

So, in conclusion, yeah, not funny.
I'm with you.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 03:36:03 PM »

Quote
When the issues are rationally discussed, the outcome is that the Republicans' positions are often shown to be illogical, irrational, fearful and deceptive.  As such, I'd rather have the in-depth analysis of such issues and let the Democrats' ideas stand on their own.  I'm very confident with the outcome of such a debate.

You can't have a true in-depth analysis of the issues and the other party's position if you automatically start out calling their positions illogical, irrational, fearful, and deceptive. The sheer condescending air of moral superiority that liberals exude every time they open their mouths is what pisses me off more than their policy positions. You're like the Apple fanboys of the political world.
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McBa1n
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 03:46:49 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 13, 2008, 03:36:03 PM

Quote
When the issues are rationally discussed, the outcome is that the Republicans' positions are often shown to be illogical, irrational, fearful and deceptive.  As such, I'd rather have the in-depth analysis of such issues and let the Democrats' ideas stand on their own.  I'm very confident with the outcome of such a debate.

You can't have a true in-depth analysis of the issues and the other party's position if you automatically start out calling their positions illogical, irrational, fearful, and deceptive. The sheer condescending air of moral superiority that liberals exude every time they open their mouths is what pisses me off more than their policy positions. You're like the Apple fanboys of the political world.

LOL PWNED.
It's hard for Republicans to exude moral superiority, though. That's one thing a Democrat will always have over a Republican... And probably the only thing. I just registered Democrat for the first time in my life (to caucus in Nevada) - so CLEARLY, I also now hold the moral highground. Haha - man that hurt me to type, even if I was just joking.

Also, I think the comedy in that bit is not so much that those are Republican positions. There are a lot of things in there, though, that they use as tactics. In fact, that's how today's neocon came to be - it all started with jim crow race baiting and fear tactics. I think that pokes more fun at the neocon that has hijacked my old Republican party...
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 03:50:17 PM by McBa1n » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 03:51:08 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n on June 13, 2008, 03:46:49 PM

It's hard for Republicans to exude moral superiority, though. That's one thing a Democrat will always have over a Republican...

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
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Moliere
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« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 04:02:13 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 03:51:08 PM

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"The basic and crucial political issue of our age is: capitalism versus socialism, or freedom versus statism. For decades, this issue has been silenced, suppressed, evaded, and hidden under the foggy, undefined rubber-terms of “conservatism” and “liberalism” which had lost their original meaning and could be stretched to mean all things to all men.

The goal of the “liberals”—as it emerges from the record of the past decades—was to smuggle this country into welfare statism by means of single, concrete, specific measures, enlarging the power of the government a step at a time, never permitting these steps to be summed up into principles, never permitting their direction to be identified or the basic issue to be named. Thus statism was to come, not by vote or by violence, but by slow rot—by a long process of evasion and epistemological corruption, leading to a fait accompli. (The goal of the “conservatives” was only to retard that process.)" - Ayn Rand
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Brendan
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« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2008, 04:05:21 PM »

Hahaha.  Ayn Rand?

Next time, just use this:

"Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington. It belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican. It belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow. It belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different."

We all know how objectivism turns out.
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Moliere
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« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2008, 04:10:33 PM »

I predicted it would take at least 5 minutes for a superficial and nonsensical critique of Ayn Rand without actually addressing the quote or her ideas specifically. You beat that prediction by 2 minutes.
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« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2008, 04:16:05 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 13, 2008, 04:10:33 PM

I predicted it would take at least 5 minutes for a superficial and nonsensical critique of Ayn Rand without actually addressing the quote or her ideas specifically. You beat that prediction by 2 minutes.

I'll put that on my annual review this week - "Exceeds expectations!"
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denoginizer
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2008, 04:20:08 PM »

I thought it was funny.

Both major political parties have their problems.  I also find it funny that while the Conservatives try to mask their own odors by opening the windows and turning the fan on, the Liberals pretend their shit doesn't stink at all.
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ATB
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2008, 04:21:45 PM »

"I personally believe that U.S. Americans are unable to do so because, uh, some ... people out there in our nation don't have maps and uh, I believe that our, ah, education like such as in South Africa, and, uh, the Iraq, everywhere like such as, and I believe that they should, uh, our education over here in the U.S. should help the U.S., or should help South Africa, it should help the Iraq and the Asian countries so we will be able to build up our future, for." -Ms. South Carolina

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DarkEL
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« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2008, 04:31:44 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 04:20:08 PM

Both major political parties have their problems.  I also find it funny that while the Conservatives try to mask their own odors by opening the windows and turning the fan on, the Liberals pretend their shit doesn't stink at all.

+1
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Blackadar
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« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 04:35:46 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 13, 2008, 03:36:03 PM

Quote
When the issues are rationally discussed, the outcome is that the Republicans' positions are often shown to be illogical, irrational, fearful and deceptive.  As such, I'd rather have the in-depth analysis of such issues and let the Democrats' ideas stand on their own.  I'm very confident with the outcome of such a debate.

You can't have a true in-depth analysis of the issues and the other party's position if you automatically start out calling their positions illogical, irrational, fearful, and deceptive. The sheer condescending air of moral superiority that liberals exude every time they open their mouths is what pisses me off more than their policy positions. You're like the Apple fanboys of the political world.

That's just an excuse for not engaging in honest debate because you know you probably can't win.  Did I automatically call their positions positions illogical, irrational, fearful, and deceptive?  No, I said their positions are often illogical, irrational, fearful, and deceptive?  Often does not equal automatic and that's not just semantics.  It's just an attempt to mischaracterize what I've said to allow you to flee from a real debate.

You don't like that air or moral superiority?  Hell, the biggest moral blowhards in radio and print are Republican talking heads (Rush and Coulter).  It's not moral superiority anyway.  It's intellectual superiority.
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« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2008, 04:50:51 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 04:20:08 PM

I also find it funny that while the Conservatives try to mask their own odors by opening the windows and turning the fan on, the Liberals pretend their shit doesn't stink at all.

I honestly have no idea what you mean here - and whether you mean it generally about The World At Large, or specifically about people who post here on GT.  In the case of the latter, I'm certainly willing to debate the merits of any idea, and my experience here is that "the liberals" at GT are far better informed about politics than "the conservatives" at GT.  In the case of the former, I'm still bewildered by the assertion, so perhaps you could provide an instructive case study.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2008, 05:02:34 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 04:50:51 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 04:20:08 PM

I also find it funny that while the Conservatives try to mask their own odors by opening the windows and turning the fan on, the Liberals pretend their shit doesn't stink at all.

I honestly have no idea what you mean here - and whether you mean it generally about The World At Large, or specifically about people who post here on GT.  In the case of the latter, I'm certainly willing to debate the merits of any idea, and my experience here is that "the liberals" at GT are far better informed about politics than "the conservatives" at GT.  In the case of the former, I'm still bewildered by the assertion, so perhaps you could provide an instructive case study.
I think you just set a perfect example of "my shit don't stink."
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« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2008, 05:26:47 PM »

"I'm not a condescending person, I just think you're not smart enough to understand what I'm trying to say." Seriously, that's how you guys come across.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2008, 05:30:38 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 13, 2008, 05:02:34 PM

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 04:50:51 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 04:20:08 PM

I also find it funny that while the Conservatives try to mask their own odors by opening the windows and turning the fan on, the Liberals pretend their shit doesn't stink at all.

I honestly have no idea what you mean here - and whether you mean it generally about The World At Large, or specifically about people who post here on GT.  In the case of the latter, I'm certainly willing to debate the merits of any idea, and my experience here is that "the liberals" at GT are far better informed about politics than "the conservatives" at GT.  In the case of the former, I'm still bewildered by the assertion, so perhaps you could provide an instructive case study.
I think you just set a perfect example of "my shit don't stink."

Indeed.


As a World at Large example I will site the contrasting ways that the Clintons tried to inject race into this year's primary campaign against Obama

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12/obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html

versus the way Carl Rove did the same to John McCain in 2000.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080128/banks

The Clinton's way was much more subtle and nuanced than Rove's sledge hammer approach.  But both were pretty underhanded.  While the Clintons will probably deny everything to their graves.  Carl Rove and his crew will wear their McCain takedown as a medal of honor.

 
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2008, 05:31:53 PM »

Quote from: Eduardo X on June 13, 2008, 05:02:34 PM

I think you just set a perfect example of "my shit don't stink."

I figured someone'd respond that way - I just assumed it would be Cheeba.

I'm perfectly willing to concede the various stupidities inflicted by democrats.  Obama's health care proposal, for example, which doesn't cover every uninsured American, pisses me off.  Clinton's gas tax holiday was a pander, just like McCain's.  William Jefferson is a crook and deserves to go to jail.  Dennis Kucinich, bless his little elfin peace-lovin' heart, should not be allowed on television. 

There's a million stupid things the Democrats do, things that are inefficient and ham-handed, and I'm willing to concede them all, because when it comes down to it, the fundamental belief of the democratic party is that government has a responsibility to help take care of Americans, whereas the republicans push this mantra of "personal responsibility" that makes discrimination and unemployment the problem of the individual, rather than society's.

Ultimately, which is the group that truly pretends their shit don't stink?  I'd argue it's the "love it or leave it" crowd that refuse to acknowledge any valid criticisms of the status quo.  Which is the party denying global warming?  Which is the party that continually refuses to abide by the rule of law?  Which is the party who impeached a president for "perjury", but blocks impeachment of a president who, I think most people can now acknowledges, misled the country into a trillion dollar war?  Which party mocked the purple heart and military service of a senator and war hero?
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2008, 05:38:37 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:31:53 PM

Which party mocked the purple heart and military service of a senator and war hero?

That is a fair question.  Which "party" took out an ad in the New York Times questioning the patriotism of a war hero and acting commander in Iraq.
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Eduardo X
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2008, 05:40:11 PM »

You'll see me agree more with Democrats than Republicans, but I think both parties are part of a failed system.
The Democrats are so weak these days, hardly pushing back against the neo-con agenda. The fact that they've not stopped the war, at least effectively by not passing any budget that includes money for the continuation of the war, is astounding. I realize there are behind-the-scenes political maneuvers taking place, but it comes off as total cowardice.
And it's laughable to think that both parties don't pander to the same forces in our country. Corporations hold the most sway, no mater which party is in power. And any president, from either party, will make military decisions that are not approved by Congress or popular with the people. It's all bullshit.
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« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2008, 05:40:38 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 05:30:38 PM

The Clinton's way was much more subtle and nuanced than Rove's sledge hammer approach.  But both were pretty underhanded.  While the Clintons will probably deny everything to their graves.  Carl Rove and his crew will wear their McCain takedown as a medal of honor.

Clinton's tactics, particularly the bullshit with Ferraro and Clinton's comments about "hard-working white Americans" were disavowed by democrats.  In contrast, John McCain is working with Karl Rove, who has never admitted culpability in the South Carolina primary push poll.
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« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2008, 05:42:43 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 05:38:37 PM

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:31:53 PM

Which party mocked the purple heart and military service of a senator and war hero?

That is a fair question.  Which "party" took out an ad in the New York Times questioning the patriotism of a war hero and acting commander in Iraq.

Uh, are you being serious?  MoveOn is not part of the party, it's an interest group.  The Republican National Convention is where this picture was taken:

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« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2008, 05:44:17 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 13, 2008, 04:10:33 PM

I predicted it would take at least 5 minutes for a superficial and nonsensical critique of Ayn Rand without actually addressing the quote or her ideas specifically. You beat that prediction by 2 minutes.

Do you believe that the central political issue of Ayn Rand's time is still the central political issue of the 21st century?
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« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2008, 05:46:32 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:42:43 PM

Uh, are you being serious?  MoveOn is not part of the party, it's an interest group.  The Republican National Convention is where this picture was taken:

My point is both slanders were wrong.  SBVT is not "officially" part of the Republican party either. It's interesting that you choose to only defend MoveOn.  Are you willing to say that there will be no MoveOn.org members at the DNC this year?

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:40:38 PM

Clinton's tactics, particularly the bullshit with Ferraro and Clinton's comments about "hard-working white Americans" were disavowed by democrats.  In contrast, John McCain is working with Karl Rove, who has never admitted culpability in the South Carolina primary push poll.

So the Obama Campaign will not be accepting any help from Hillary or Ferraro this fall?
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« Reply #33 on: June 13, 2008, 05:57:02 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on June 13, 2008, 05:46:32 PM

My point is both slanders were wrong.  SBVT is not "officially" part of the Republican party either. It's interesting that you choose to only defend MoveOn.  Are you willing to say that there will be no MoveOn.org members at the DNC this year?

I'm sure there will be MoveOn people at the convention - and I'm equally certain that they won't be publicly mocking McCain's military service on the floor of it.  I'm even more certain that no democratic politician will say shit like this Bob Dole quote from 2004:

"With three Purple Hearts, he never bled that I know of. And they're all superficial wounds."

The Swift Boat people are entirely free to make spurious claims.  I don't care if MoveOn insults Petraeus.  I care if those things are sanctioned by their parties.
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2008, 06:22:55 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:57:02 PM

The Swift Boat people are entirely free to make spurious claims.  I don't care if MoveOn insults Petraeus.  I care if those things are sanctioned by their parties.

I think both actions were despicable.  Liberals like to portray themselves as having higher moral standards than conservatives, but that is not always true.  That's all I am trying to say here.

Also I am talking about Liberals and Conservatives here.  Not Democrats vs Republicans.  That's a whole other topic.
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2008, 06:31:56 PM »

I think the point is lost, though. There's no accountability for those that have stayed with the Republican side, even though the party has been hijacked. It's easy to point the blame both ways, our system is designed that way - but who is leading it? I think the right has a lot more crow to eat... This country is in a lot worse shape than it was 7+ years ago in several ways. Who is benefitting, though? Not the majority of the nation, that's for certain. Maybe if there was more humility in those that are Republican, the discourse might be better. I can't really engage either way, I bailed out of the Republican Party since it no longer serves the ideals it was about when I joined the party.

I think it's wrong, though, to say Republicans are not informed. That's silly. A person's ideals are what they are. There's sheep on both sides of the coin and informed people as well. I just don't like seeing Republicans cry foul, though, when their side has really screwed the pooch many many times over the last years and then talk shit to the other side. Dems are just as dirty - but they also weren't in charge when Katrina devastated this country. They also didn't make up crap to get our soliders killed in Iraq. To me, those 2 things are unforgiveable and no one wants to stand up and say "what happened to my Republican Party?" It's crazy to think they can fix this mess they have us in. It's unbelievable that the steps taken have done nothing but make things worse. It's so easy to lose sight of the big picture - and that big picture is pretty crappy for most people.
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2008, 06:43:57 PM »

Quote from: McBa1n on June 13, 2008, 06:31:56 PM

I think the point is lost, though. There's no accountability for those that have stayed with the Republican side, even though the party has been hijacked. It's easy to point the blame both ways, our system is designed that way - but who is leading it? I think the right has a lot more crow to eat... This country is in a lot worse shape than it was 7+ years ago in several ways. Who is benefitting, though? Not the majority of the nation, that's for certain. Maybe if there was more humility in those that are Republican, the discourse might be better. I can't really engage either way, I bailed out of the Republican Party since it no longer serves the ideals it was about when I joined the party.

I think it's wrong, though, to say Republicans are not informed. That's silly. A person's ideals are what they are. There's sheep on both sides of the coin and informed people as well. I just don't like seeing Republicans cry foul, though, when their side has really screwed the pooch many many times over the last years and then talk shit to the other side. Dems are just as dirty - but they also weren't in charge when Katrina devastated this country. They also didn't make up crap to get our soliders killed in Iraq. To me, those 2 things are unforgiveable and no one wants to stand up and say "what happened to my Republican Party?" It's crazy to think they can fix this mess they have us in. It's unbelievable that the steps taken have done nothing but make things worse. It's so easy to lose sight of the big picture - and that big picture is pretty crappy for most people.

Good points. I agree with just about everything there.  I do agree that the liberals have alot more ammunition to load into their cannons.  I think alot of that has to do with the fact that the Republicans have been in power for 20 of the last 28 years.  I'm pretty sure if we were having this conversation in 1952 the reverse would be true.

It's interesting that the Democrats could only parlay Watergate into 4 years in office.  We'll see how long it takes them to lose the momentum George W Bush has given them.
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« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2008, 10:00:36 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 13, 2008, 04:10:33 PM

I predicted it would take at least 5 minutes for a superficial and nonsensical critique of Ayn Rand without actually addressing the quote or her ideas specifically. You beat that prediction by 2 minutes.

I've always wanted to author an epic refutation of Rand, the title of which would be "tl;dr".
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« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2008, 10:25:43 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 04:50:51 PM

In the case of the latter, I'm certainly willing to debate the merits of any idea, and my experience here is that "the liberals" at GT are far better informed about politics than "the conservatives" at GT.
Dude, you're sounding more and more like unbreakable every day.
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« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2008, 10:35:39 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 13, 2008, 05:31:53 PM

I figured someone'd respond that way - I just assumed it would be Cheeba.
Sorry, been a busy day. Plus you've done a fine enough job of hanging yourself with your own rope that I have no need of pointing out your megalopartisanship.
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