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Fireball
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« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2011, 06:45:55 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:36:35 PM

To your earlier post the first yahoo search poll I found was 2 years old from 2009 where it was 57% opposed gay marriage so thats where I got my numbers from, if things have changed then so much the better. 

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118378/Majority-Americans-Continue-Oppose-Gay-Marriage.aspx

I don't know that numbers swung that much in reality. For most people, this isn't an issue they think about much or care about much. While there are large groups on either side with hard and fast positions, and increasingly more people are fixing on a position of support, there's a large swath of the country that doesn't really care, and if asked one day would answer one way, and if asked another would answer another. Polling for opinions like this is less accurate than polling likely voters regarding political candidate support.

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As to one last point, I think it may be entirely possible that President Obama truly does oppose gay marriage, I cant read his mind I only can take the statements he has made that show his opposition. 

I can't claim to know, either. But I do know how Democratic candidates deal with this issue, and how they often feel forced to halfheartedly profess a position on this issue that they do not actually agree with, for fear of losing close elections.
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« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2011, 06:46:33 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:25:18 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 17, 2011, 06:21:16 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:14:20 PM

I would think that a group that sees the most challenges in equal rights historically in america would think differently, and I dont know why they dont.

Because skin color doesn't prevent someone from being a bigot.

I don't know why either, but many of us in minority groups are bigoted against one another.  Hell, you see light skinned brothers making fun of dark skinned ones.  Many Blacks hate Jews and vice versa.  The cheap answer you'll often get is that "the man"/"the system"/"they" want us at each others' throats.  But that's not correct - at least that's not the majority of the problem.  Worse, that excuse is tossed around as a reasonable response to unreasonable behavior.



Im going to be asking a lot of questions I dont know the answer to on this, hope it doesnt annoy anyone.  Its just as a strong conservative who supports equal rights for gay and straight couples I have a disconnect as to why some groups are so opposed.  

Are african americans as a group more religious?   Or the religions that they gravitate towards more anti gay then others?

Questions are fine, brett.  We don't have as many wars as we used to.  smile

Yes, typically blacks are more religious than other minority groups.  http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/01/30/african-americans-top-us-religious-measures-pew/

But I think it goes far beyond that.  Below is all personal speculation and observation - none of it based on provable facts.  So don't ask me for links.  smile

Being very candid, I think a lot of blacks (I've never preferred the term African-American) want to be the predominant minority in the USA because they seem to think it conveys some sort of special status.  To this day there's a lot of teeth-gnashing about Hispanics being the larger minority, even though that threshold was crossed about 10 years ago.  That's why often you'll see the Hispanic population being broken up into Mexican, Puerto Rican and "other" Hispanic by some writers/speakers while the black population remains homogeneously defined.  It makes blacks the #1 minority by doing so.  Admitting another minority group seems like a threat to our "special status".  I don't think that way, but many out there do.

Also, a lot of minority groups (not just black) seem to think that being gay is a choice but you don't choose your skin tone.  I think a lot of people of all colors really believe that, but it seems to resonate more in minority communities.

Finally, I think that many people of all colors are somewhat repulsed by the thought of being gay.  I might think Halle Berry is hotter than Angelina Jolie, but we can both agree that they're fucking hot.  Whether you're black, white, asian or hispanic (or anything else), you generally process things the same way when it comes to beauty and sexual attractiveness (this has been proven over and over).  If we're Hetero, we just can't imagine being with a guy.  It just doesn't feel right...but it feels absolutely right with someone who is Homosexual.  That's a very difficult thing to comprehend.

So when you add all of these factors up, you get a segment population that largely tends to be religious and protective of their minority status and they'll use the excuses of gayness being a "choice" or "unnatural" to justify it.  I know this is kind of a long and rambling response to your simple question, but I hope it helps.  Again, this is all purely conjecture based on observations and not any kind of definitive study.
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« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2011, 06:50:47 PM »

Taken as a whole that makes a lot of sense Blackadar, thank you very much for taking the time to post all of that.   
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« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2011, 06:52:22 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:14:20 PM

There is no set group of people that is against gay marriage, if you feel the majority of americans, including a president I know you strongly support are personally attacking you, then no discussion on this issue can work with you.

I disagree that you can't discuss it with him, or someone else who shares his view... I think there is value in that discussion because it might convince someone who holds the opposing view that they were in the wrong.  You can't convince everyone, but sometimes you can convince someone.


Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:25:18 PM

Im going to be asking a lot of questions I dont know the answer to on this, hope it doesnt annoy anyone.  Its just as a strong conservative who supports equal rights for gay and straight couples I have a disconnect as to why some groups are so opposed.  

 Are african americans as a group more religious?   Or the religions that they gravitate towards more anti gay then others?

Religion isn't the only reason people are homophobic... I would argue that it's probably not even the most likely reason that people are homophobic.  We have different cultural environments or communities that as a group can hold very similar views because that's the environment that they grow up in... I've been reading some interesting stuff this morning about the roots of homophobia in black communities...

I'll just quote here:
Following slavery, the racist attitudes that defined black men as sex predators caused black men extreme hardship and death. By appealing to the age-old stereotype that black men harbor an insatiable desire for white women, black men existed as targets for to be blamed for raping white women. Indeed as Paula Giddings notes, it was black women themselves who were identified as culprits for their own rape due to the purported sexual appetite that blacks had for sex. ... Given the majority culture's racism and sexual attitudes, African Americans soon learned that their very survival depended on distancing themselves from "sexual perversions." Much of black heterosexuals' antihomosexual sentiment exists as a means of countering the perception of black sexuality as perverse in order to survive and gain respectability and acceptance by the majority. Thus, it is understandable that African Americans would approach homosexuality with more dread and disdain than others, often denying a black homosexual presence to avoid being further maligned in a racist society.

So while those views of black men are not (as) pervasive now, that culture has already been created, and that homophobia intertwined with the culture of that community - and once something is ingrained in  the collective identity of a community, it's hard to drum it out. You would find the same thing going one way or the other among other communities... say, ranchers in Wyoming (a community I know all too well).  It has nothing to do with race... it has to do with the social culture of a given community... the reasons can be religious, or based on old hatreds that are passed down father to son, etc...
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« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2011, 07:04:18 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on February 17, 2011, 06:38:13 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 17, 2011, 06:32:28 PM

Quote from: Scraper on February 17, 2011, 06:30:46 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 17, 2011, 06:06:50 PM

As an aside, if any of our gay members would like the name of a resort camp that caters exclusively to the gay lifestyle just PM me.  My brother and his partner just bought one in (of all places) West Virginia.  I turned down his invite to visit during what they call "Bear Weekend", but I do plan on visiting as it sounds fantastic.  

Zeke, would you like to go with me as my plus one?  They have hunting, fishing and a fabulous fashion show for men's underwear on Friday nights.

p.s. i'm not joking about the campground.  i'm shamelessly shilling for my little bro.   icon_wink

I live in Eastern Ohio, just a river away from West Virginia, and we have one of those near me too. Never been there but I hear it's a nice place for gay guys to go to and not feel persecuted. It's odd that they have them in an otherwise fairly conservative area.

even more derail:  you're in canton, ohio?  I grew up in New Philly, just down the road from you. 

Yeah I actually live in Minerva, Ohio. So I claim Canton just so some people have a clue as to where it is.
Heck, I'm in Columbus and I still had to look it up to make sure you weren't inventing new places.  Columbus does seems to be pretty gay friendly too.
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« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2011, 07:23:48 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:50:47 PM

Taken as a whole that makes a lot of sense Blackadar, thank you very much for taking the time to post all of that.   

Holy crap.  We're having a civilized conversation in the R&P forum?   saywhat

In all honesty, it's awesome to go to lunch, and come back to this type of discussion.

As a Hispanic male, I can agree with what Blackadar posted about minorities not accepting homosexuality as anything other than a choice which can, and should be, reversed. Until it is accepted that some human beings, like many other species, naturally prefer the same sex, it will continue to be a hotly debated topic.
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« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2011, 07:35:37 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 17, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

Also, a lot of minority groups (not just black) seem to think that being gay is a choice but you don't choose your skin tone.  I think a lot of people of all colors really believe that, but it seems to resonate more in minority communities.

I've never understood this.

Insomuch as I have free will, I feel that being gay is a choice. You have the choice every day to act on your impulses or not. The 'I was born this way' argument always seemed more like a way to make the religious understand a little more.

Has a gay or lesbian, not in a relationship, ever come out as gay or lesbian? Or were they exploring their sexuality, got into a relationship with someone, and then came out? Life is about the exploration. I ain't got a problem if you're gay or bisexual (which as a quick aside, I think a good percentage of gay people are actually bisexual and appreciate people on both sides of the aisle) - but I would like a bit more information about why you have to be 'born that way'

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« Reply #47 on: February 17, 2011, 07:38:19 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on February 17, 2011, 07:23:48 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on February 17, 2011, 06:50:47 PM

Taken as a whole that makes a lot of sense Blackadar, thank you very much for taking the time to post all of that.   

Holy crap.  We're having a civilized conversation in the R&P forum?   saywhat

In all honesty, it's awesome to go to lunch, and come back to this type of discussion.


It's like someone dropped the Genesis device here.

or maybe one those plants that spewed out love pollen.
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rickfc
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« Reply #48 on: February 17, 2011, 07:45:15 PM »

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 07:35:37 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 17, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

Also, a lot of minority groups (not just black) seem to think that being gay is a choice but you don't choose your skin tone.  I think a lot of people of all colors really believe that, but it seems to resonate more in minority communities.

I've never understood this.

Insomuch as I have free will, I feel that being gay is a choice. You have the choice every day to act on your impulses or not. The 'I was born this way' argument always seemed more like a way to make the religious understand a little more.

Has a gay or lesbian, not in a relationship, ever come out as gay or lesbian? Or were they exploring their sexuality, got into a relationship with someone, and then came out? Life is about the exploration. I ain't got a problem if you're gay or bisexual (which as a quick aside, I think a good percentage of gay people are actually bisexual and appreciate people on both sides of the aisle) - but I would like a bit more information about why you have to be 'born that way'



Of all the gay people I know and have talked to about their coming out, they were always attracted to the same sex, the same way you and I are attracted to women. They obviously have to explore it because it differs from the norm and what they are told is normal.

Edit: I'm assuming you're a guy. Sorry if I assumed incorrectly.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2011, 07:48:35 PM by rickfc » Logged
Blackadar
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« Reply #49 on: February 17, 2011, 07:45:46 PM »

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 07:35:37 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on February 17, 2011, 06:46:33 PM

Also, a lot of minority groups (not just black) seem to think that being gay is a choice but you don't choose your skin tone.  I think a lot of people of all colors really believe that, but it seems to resonate more in minority communities.

I've never understood this.

Insomuch as I have free will, I feel that being gay is a choice. You have the choice every day to act on your impulses or not. The 'I was born this way' argument always seemed more like a way to make the religious understand a little more.

Has a gay or lesbian, not in a relationship, ever come out as gay or lesbian? Or were they exploring their sexuality, got into a relationship with someone, and then came out? Life is about the exploration. I ain't got a problem if you're gay or bisexual (which as a quick aside, I think a good percentage of gay people are actually bisexual and appreciate people on both sides of the aisle) - but I would like a bit more information about why you have to be 'born that way'

I believe I've read that scientifically there are differences.  But the neurological makeup of a straight versus gay person isn't my area of expertise, so I'll defer on that to someone else.

But I have a sibling who is a lesbian.  Looking back at her life, she was always a lesbian, even before she hit puberty.  I remember her asking me which Charlie's Angel was the prettiest.  I picked Farrah and then asked her what her choice was.  It wasn't Farrah or even the ravishing Jaclyn Smith.  It was Kate Jackson, the mousy looking one.  There were many things like that in our childhood where you just *knew* she was different when it came to sexuality.  There's no doubt in my mind - none whatsoever - that she was born that way.    

FYI, saying "don't act on your impulses if you're gay" is tantamount to saying that all gays should live a closeted, sexless, unhappy life.  I don't think you really want to go there because you'll get absolutely annihilated in this forum (and rightfully so).
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« Reply #50 on: February 17, 2011, 07:58:28 PM »

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 07:35:37 PM

Insomuch as I have free will, I feel that being gay is a choice. You have the choice every day to act on your impulses or not. The 'I was born this way' argument always seemed more like a way to make the religious understand a little more.

Being gay is not an action. I am gay all the time, whether I am having sex or not. Even were I to have sex with a woman, I would still be gay while engaged in that action. It's not a choice. If it were a choice, there would be almost no gay people -- when we all first realize we're gay in our early teens, the most common reaction is to try to suppress that "wrong" part of ourselves. If we could choose, most of us would have then chosen to not be gay anymore.

I've known I was gay since I was 12 years old, and it was clear before that -- in kindergarten, I liked to be on the girls teams, and would try to kiss the other boys. I also have some of the morphological differences common amongst gay males, indicating a strong likelihood of genetic influence on my sexuality.
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« Reply #51 on: February 17, 2011, 08:14:51 PM »

I'm about to head out to a meeting for the rest of the day, but I just wanted to encourage this course. Keep up the civilized conversation.  Good vibes.

Kumbaya, guys. Kumba-fucking-ya.
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« Reply #52 on: February 17, 2011, 08:15:05 PM »

Again - this is coming from a lack of knowledge. I'm not homophobic and I do feel gay people have the right to get married. I just want to get a better understanding of the issue.

Quote
Of all the gay people I know and have talked to about their coming out, they were always attracted to the same sex, the same way you and I are attracted to women. They obviously have to explore it because it differs from the norm and what they are told is normal.

I wasn't attracted to the opposite sex until I was around 12 years old. Before that, my sexual identity, as it were, was pretty much zero. I was male but I didn't really notice girls.  This could be due to my autism.
  
Quote
FYI, saying "don't act on your impulses if you're gay" is tantamount to saying that all gays should live a closeted, sexless, unhappy life.  I don't think you really want to go there because you'll get absolutely annihilated in this forum (and rightfully so).

So for the most part, gay people are truly only attracted to people of their own gender? How does someone who is bisexual fit in? For some reason I think bisexual is more common than 100% gay - am I wrong?

Quote
If we could choose, most of us would have then chosen to not be gay anymore.

That's the part I find the most understandable. I do apologize if I have offended in any way. It's not my goal.
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« Reply #53 on: February 17, 2011, 08:22:28 PM »

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 08:15:05 PM

I wasn't attracted to the opposite sex until I was around 12 years old. Before that, my sexual identity, as it were, was pretty much zero. I was male but I didn't really notice girls.  This could be due to my autism.

I think you'll find that's a pretty standard age for everyone. At the onset of puberty, everyone suddenly becomes interested in sex, and after some confusion, gay kids realize they're interested in their own gender, and think to themselves, "Well, crap. That's not what I expected."
  
Quote
So for the most part, gay people are truly only attracted to people of their own gender? How does someone who is bisexual fit in? For some reason I think bisexual is more common than 100% gay - am I wrong?

Bisexuality seems to be very rare amongst men, and less rare amongst women. Which also points to potential genetic factors in determining sexual orientation.

Quote
That's the part I find the most understandable. I do apologize if I have offended in any way. It's not my goal.

Not at all. I'm happy to answer your questions.
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« Reply #54 on: February 17, 2011, 08:28:11 PM »

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 08:15:05 PM

Again - this is coming from a lack of knowledge. I'm not homophobic and I do feel gay people have the right to get married. I just want to get a better understanding of the issue.

Fair enough.  Just don't use the term "control your impulses" again.  smile

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 08:15:05 PM

I wasn't attracted to the opposite sex until I was around 12 years old. Before that, my sexual identity, as it were, was pretty much zero. I was male but I didn't really notice girls.  This could be due to my autism.

Yeah, but I'd place dollars to donuts that your sense of what was attractive was much the same as most heterosexuals, even if you didn't look at it overtly sexually.  Look at both Fireball's and my posts on pre-pubescent homosexual activity and you'll begin to realize that many homosexuals just identify and act somewhat differently at a very early age (in terms of roles and group identification).  I'm not trying to imply that it's a disease or one way of acting is right and another is wrong.  But watching my sister grow up, she was just...different.  

Quote from: Larraque on February 17, 2011, 08:15:05 PM

So for the most part, gay people are truly only attracted to people of their own gender? How does someone who is bisexual fit in? For some reason I think bisexual is more common than 100% gay - am I wrong?

Rather than think of someone as a homosexual or a heterosexual as an off/on switch, think more about a sliding scale on which sex you are more attracted to.  If 9 is the top number on the hetero side and 1 is homo only, you'll find that most people are somewhere around an 8 or a 2.  But there are a number of people that are 4s or 6s and a few true 5s.  The point being is that many people are a little more "flexible" in terms of the sexual preferences than they'd like to admit.  There is a stronger trend with women towards that flexibility than with men, but whether that's genetic or environmental is undetermined.
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« Reply #55 on: February 17, 2011, 08:30:57 PM »

It's hard to find demographics that don't lump bisexual and homosexual people together, but I think that the number of bisexual people is smaller than the number of homosexual people... I think the numbers vaguely support that.

And you can't take every college kid who ever had a homosexual experience and say 'well, they are bisexual', because as Fireball pointed out, sexual identity and sexual actions are not the same thing.  The numbers of homosexual people who have had sexual experiences with both genders is much higher than it is for heterosexual people simply because it's more likely to try and conform to the norm at some point in your life... obviously some people get married, have kids, etc... but that doesn't make them bisexual either...
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« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2011, 04:46:33 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 17, 2011, 05:28:43 PM

Quote from: rickfc on February 17, 2011, 05:22:19 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 17, 2011, 05:20:11 PM


edit:  oh god, I'm in the zeke zone again, aren't i?  

Come on, hep, you know you enjoy every minute of this.

It's not that I don't enjoy watching a good Zeke thread.  It's just that it's a time commitment I really shouldn't make.  And I don't hate or even dislike Zeke.  I just get bemused by him sometimes...and, in weaker moments, frustrated with him.

Lately this forum is cutting into my gaming time. Damn you, Zekester.
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« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2011, 02:42:39 PM »

Hey, I hear ya.

Those couple days have killed my back.
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« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2011, 02:59:44 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 02:42:39 PM

Hey, I hear ya.

Those couple days have killed my back.

face the keyboard when typing.  it really helps.
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« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM »

turkey and mayo?
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« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.
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« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2011, 03:32:25 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

it appears he's wearing a shirt in that avatar photo, so I don't think it is.
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« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM »

I am a straight male, and I'm against gay marriage.

Not because your relationships are worth less than straight ones, but I'm against marriage altogether. icon_twisted

While the word marriage is synonymous with a joining or coupling, the fact is the roots of marriage are religious in nature. The protections and community recognition of your partnership should be free of religious overtone and only have those religious influences through your ceremonies.

There is a marriage certificate issued on or before the event of marriage - perhaps a rewording to recognize an intimate legal partnership which inherits those protections can satisfy both sides. If you can find a church or religion that is willing to marry you in their/your faith, then that too is OK, but it no longer becomes the basis of the basic human rights you are being denied. Eg: some catholic churches will not marry one catholic to a "heathen", however some will. That exception is based on community and interpretations that are allowed within the faith - so if being "married" - ie in the eyes of God, then you need to do the same thing this heathen did with his ex and find a church that would take you. Not because you're gay, but because marriage in a church is based on community.

On the topic of bisexuality, it may be that there is a wiring issue that allows females to more easily accept same-sex encounters, based on the polygamous relationships of 1M:2+F. *I DO NOT BELIEVE* we are not so far removed from our animal roots that genetic predispositions of yesteryear are overcome with logic and reasoning.

As examples: you still don't take the urinal right beside another man unless you're confrontational, and it may help explain why we have a natural immediate repulsion to the idea of male-on-male, where female-on-female is widely accepted and often encouraged.

I don't find male homosexuality offensive. It isn't entirely foreign to me ( I have gay friends ) and while we all have had "curious thoughts" that might cause a homophobic fear, and I can certainly recognize attractive men - I have no ferrous fibers in me that are pulled by that magnetism.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 04:02:29 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2011, 04:00:32 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

That's a pic of hepcat.  and I am Carrot Top, actually.
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« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2011, 04:00:38 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM

I am a straight male, and I'm against gay marriage.

Not because your relationships are worth less than straight ones, but I'm against marriage altogether. icon_twisted

While the word marriage is synonymous with a joining or coupling, the fact is the roots are religious in nature. The protections and community recognition of your partnership should be free of religious overtone and only have those religious influences through your ceremonies. There is a marriage certificate issued on or before the event of marriage - perhaps a rewording to recognize an intimate legal partnership which inherits those protections can satisfy both sides. If you can find a church or religion that is willing to marry you in their faith, then that too is OK, but it no longer becomes the basis of the basic human rights you are being denied.


Christmas has ties to religion also, not just the pagan celebration of solstice.  I fully expect you to neither give nor receive presents on that day, nor miss a day of work, since those trappings come from the non-secular side.   Tongue
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« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2011, 04:05:52 PM »

And St. Nick was a real person, sainted after his death (IIRC), and his actions of kindness and gift-giving as well as punishment for the wicked were not only for Christian children.

Plus, Christ wasn't born in December. Tongue
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« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2011, 04:07:59 PM »

Hep, I edited my post while you posted that. You might want to re-read.

The fact is, the human rights offered by your country have nothing to do with religion - being in an established long-term relationship should not be segmented based on religious permission.
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« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2011, 04:09:44 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 18, 2011, 03:32:25 PM

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

it appears he's wearing a shirt in that avatar photo, so I don't think it is.

it's winter. smart ass.
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« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2011, 04:11:54 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 04:09:44 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 18, 2011, 03:32:25 PM

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

it appears he's wearing a shirt in that avatar photo, so I don't think it is.

it's winter. smart ass.

See Zeke? You've just started with the insults... and this thread was going so well. slywink
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« Reply #69 on: February 18, 2011, 04:12:17 PM »

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 04:09:44 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 18, 2011, 03:32:25 PM

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

it appears he's wearing a shirt in that avatar photo, so I don't think it is.

it's winter. smart ass.

Carrot Top has no need of shirts. Even in winter.
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« Reply #70 on: February 18, 2011, 04:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 04:11:54 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 04:09:44 PM

Quote from: hepcat on February 18, 2011, 03:32:25 PM

Quote from: Scraper on February 18, 2011, 03:28:51 PM

Quote from: Zekester on February 18, 2011, 03:10:44 PM

turkey and mayo?

I prefer Ham.

On a side note, Zeke is your new avatar a picture of you? It will help me with my visual of you angrily throwing darts at pictures of Carrot Top.

it appears he's wearing a shirt in that avatar photo, so I don't think it is.

it's winter. smart ass.

See Zeke? You've just started with the insults... and this thread was going so well. slywink

oh yeah, I forgot the  icon_razz

my bad

Quote
Carrot Top has no need of shirts. Even in winter.

but then how does he keep his carrot warm?  icon_confused
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« Reply #71 on: February 18, 2011, 04:17:03 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 04:05:52 PM

And St. Nick was a real person, sainted after his death (IIRC), and his actions of kindness and gift-giving as well as punishment for the wicked were not only for Christian children.

Plus, Christ wasn't born in December. Tongue

i never said he was.  i said christmas is tied to religion...and it is.   icon_wink

Quote
The fact is, the human rights offered by your country have nothing to do with religion - being in an established long-term relationship should not be segmented based on religious permission.

on that i agree.  i posted my reply because even though I'm not a religious person, i don't begrudge others their faith.  I thought you were heading toward a "all religion is bad!" post and i don't agree with that.  if you find solace in something, more power to you.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2011, 04:20:19 PM by hepcat » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: February 18, 2011, 05:19:48 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM

I am a straight male, and I'm against gay marriage.

Not because your relationships are worth less than straight ones, but I'm against marriage altogether. icon_twisted


Wouldn't it be more correct, then, to just say that you are against marriage altogether, rather than singling out gay marriage? This implies you're willing to keep heterosexual marriage intact, even though you are against it - but for some reason are willing to throw gay marriage under the bus. smile
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« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2011, 05:28:19 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM

While the word marriage is synonymous with a joining or coupling, the fact is the roots of marriage are religious in nature.

Not true. The institution of marriage first arose in Egypt, and the first recorded marriages were wholly secular in nature. Even in the Western World, marriage in the Roman Empire didn't get entangled with religion into well into the first millennium.
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« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2011, 05:35:00 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on February 18, 2011, 05:28:19 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM

While the word marriage is synonymous with a joining or coupling, the fact is the roots of marriage are religious in nature.

Not true. The institution of marriage first arose in Egypt, and the first recorded marriages were wholly secular in nature. Even in the Western World, marriage in the Roman Empire didn't get entangled with religion into well into the first millennium.

We should just do away with marriage and allow ourselves to sleep with as many people as possible. Strictly for the survival of our species.
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« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2011, 05:35:12 PM »

Candidly, Purge, I think marriage is an entirely antiquated institution that is inherently flawed in a LARGE number of ways.

That being said, gays should be able to make the same horrific mistake heterosexuals do.
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« Reply #76 on: February 18, 2011, 05:37:27 PM »

Quote from: gellar on February 18, 2011, 05:35:12 PM

Candidly, Purge, I think marriage is an entirely antiquated institution that is inherently flawed in a LARGE number of ways.

That being said, gays should be able to make the same horrific mistake heterosexuals do.

I think Daniel Tosh summed up the gay marriage situation best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blaZx7EML_4
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« Reply #77 on: February 18, 2011, 05:59:36 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on February 18, 2011, 05:35:00 PM

Quote from: Fireball1244 on February 18, 2011, 05:28:19 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 18, 2011, 03:54:28 PM

While the word marriage is synonymous with a joining or coupling, the fact is the roots of marriage are religious in nature.

Not true. The institution of marriage first arose in Egypt, and the first recorded marriages were wholly secular in nature. Even in the Western World, marriage in the Roman Empire didn't get entangled with religion into well into the first millennium.

We should just do away with marriage and allow ourselves to sleep with as many people as possible. Strictly for the survival of our species.

LDS, here I come!
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« Reply #78 on: February 18, 2011, 06:27:25 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on February 17, 2011, 06:23:10 PM

Whatever our views on bigotry are, I think we can all agree that the French are not to be trusted.

Oy! Fuck you to, you American bigot! *Fist Shaking* Deriding my proud ancestry...

Spoiler for Hiden:
Nah, don't worry, it's all cool. I don't trust me either! Mwahahaha
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« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2011, 03:52:42 PM »

.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2013, 04:45:38 PM by Fireball1244 » Logged

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