How to write a 300 page book on a 1 page topic

[Zekester]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

[rickfc]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

[Zekester]

Alefroth, blakadar.....come on, where you guys at?

this is a golden oppurtunty. The zekester is melting down again!

 

[hepcat]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

an inability to admit you're wrong isn't a conviction.  it's a character fault.

[Zekester]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

[Zekester]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

an inability to admit you're wrong isn't a conviction.  it's a character fault.

prove me wrong.

that hawaii convenience document doesnt count 

[hepcat]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

an inability to admit you're wrong isn't a conviction.  it's a character fault.

prove me wrong.

that hawaii convenience document doesnt count  

Bush was born in Moscow.  

prove me wrong.

[Fireball1244]

I enjoy learning new things. I appreciate it when I learn a new fact, even if it makes me reconsider a position or belief I have held for some time. I've had discussions on these boards move my position on things like gun control. As I leave behind my young Republican roots, I've had many real life conversations lead to changes in a lot of my previously held positions (but not all).

Being able to grow, learn and change one's opinions is one of the greatest things about life.

[Zekester]

I enjoy learning new things. I appreciate it when I learn a new fact, even if it makes me reconsider a position or belief I have held for some time. I've had discussions on these boards move my position on things like gun control. As I leave behind my young Republican roots, I've had many real life conversations lead to changes in a lot of my previously held positions (but not all).

Being able to grow, learn and change one's opinions is one of the greatest things about life.

Amen

[rickfc]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

The day you present a well-thought out argument backed with fact, I'll listen. I'll even listen to opinion, see the beginning of our discussion on the "gay agenda", to a certain point.

When you make outlandish remarks like saying that the president can supersede a state's laws, that's when I shut off.

[hepcat]

I enjoy learning new things. I appreciate it when I learn a new fact, even if it makes me reconsider a position or belief I have held for some time. I've had discussions on these boards move my position on things like gun control. As I leave behind my young Republican roots, I've had many real life conversations lead to changes in a lot of my previously held positions (but not all).

Being able to grow, learn and change one's opinions is one of the greatest things about life.

Amen

 

pssst....zeke...that was a dig at you.

[Fireball1244]

I enjoy learning new things. I appreciate it when I learn a new fact, even if it makes me reconsider a position or belief I have held for some time. I've had discussions on these boards move my position on things like gun control. As I leave behind my young Republican roots, I've had many real life conversations lead to changes in a lot of my previously held positions (but not all).

Being able to grow, learn and change one's opinions is one of the greatest things about life.

Amen

 

You are the opposite of what I was describing. You cling to your beliefs no matter what facts might get in the way. The absolute worst of the dogmatics on this board or any other I participate on.

[Zekester]

 

[Gratch]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

Not that it has much to do with the original post, but I'd imagine there are quite a few folks here (myself included) who voted for Obama, but do not agree with and are quite disappointed with some of the things he's done (or not done) so far as POTUS.

Hooray for the ability to actually apply critical thinking to unique circumstances instead of simply toeing a party line 100% of the time!

[Zekester]

I enjoy learning new things. I appreciate it when I learn a new fact, even if it makes me reconsider a position or belief I have held for some time. I've had discussions on these boards move my position on things like gun control. As I leave behind my young Republican roots, I've had many real life conversations lead to changes in a lot of my previously held positions (but not all).

Being able to grow, learn and change one's opinions is one of the greatest things about life.

Amen

 

You are the opposite of what I was describing. You cling to your beliefs no matter what facts might get in the way. The absolute worst of the dogmatics on this board or any other I participate on.

So i'm assuming the religious response went over your head?

I didnt think you would have forgotten so soon  

[Zekester]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

Not that it has much to do with the original post, but I'd imagine there are quite a few folks here (myself included) who voted for Obama, but do not agree with and are quite disappointed with some of the things he's done (or not done) so far as POTUS.

Hooray for the ability to actually apply critical thinking to unique circumstances instead of simply toeing a party line 100% of the time!

Hey, I loved the fact that he showed some very Bush-like military balls so far  

[Purge]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

Not that it has much to do with the original post, but I'd imagine there are quite a few folks here (myself included) who voted for Obama, but do not agree with and are quite disappointed with some of the things he's done (or not done) so far as POTUS.

Hooray for the ability to actually apply critical thinking to unique circumstances instead of simply toeing a party line 100% of the time!

Hey, I loved the fact that he showed some very Bush-like military balls so far 

Then clearly this is evidence of American heritage. There's a very good reason as to why Americans wear Canadian flags when traveling abroad.

[Zekester]

The difference is, that if you present evidence that contradicts my opinion, I will listen and possibly even change my mind.

I listen to reason and facts. You do neither. At least on this board.

BULLSHIT!

this is a pro-Obama, liberal-majority forum. I'm not changing anyone's mind here, nor do I wish too.

to their credit, both p0rner and gellar have admitted to not drinking the kool-aid at times. but it's been more of a mumble under their breath.

Not that it has much to do with the original post, but I'd imagine there are quite a few folks here (myself included) who voted for Obama, but do not agree with and are quite disappointed with some of the things he's done (or not done) so far as POTUS.

Hooray for the ability to actually apply critical thinking to unique circumstances instead of simply toeing a party line 100% of the time!

Hey, I loved the fact that he showed some very Bush-like military balls so far 

Then clearly this is evidence of American heritage. There's a very good reason as to why Americans wear Canadian flags when traveling abroad.

that good reason being cowardice? or maybe because they're too fucking stupid to realize they live in the greatest country that ever was on this planet?

fucking assholes.

[hepcat]

wow, you're all over the place, ain't ya? 

do us a favor, pick a topic to be wrong about and just stick to that for a while?

[Zekester]

wow, you're all over the place, ain't ya? 

do us a favor, pick a topic to be wrong about and just stick to that for a while?

you're funny?

how's that one?

[Purge]

Then clearly this is evidence of American heritage. There's a very good reason as to why Americans wear Canadian flags when traveling abroad.

that good reason being cowardice? or maybe because they're too fucking stupid to realize they live in the greatest country that ever was on this planet?

fucking assholes.

I could point out poor US global policies and the like, but it boils down to those people not wanting to starve to death in foreign restaurants all over the globe. Perhaps being the greatest country means doing whatever you want, and when there are repercussions, hiding your nationality so you can not reap what you sow.

That ain't fear, thats taking advantage.

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

Do you purposely waste people's time, Zeke? (Y/N)

[Purge]

why do I need to insist that about Bush? thats up to others that might not believe he is a citizen to insist it. but I do know that there aren't any of these "odd" circumstances surrounding his citizenship, are there hep?

That begs the question. Bush's birth hasn't been investigated and publicized the way Obama's has. Remember the Hussein middle name fiasco?

you're just nit-picking and you know it.

I'm not a birther, at least not full-blown. But i'm not buying that weak Hawaii excuse blindly. I am anti-Obama, therefore I want to believe he is not a US citizen. Pro-Obama people want to believe he is.

You couldn't just disagree with him, but instead need to refute his claim to even being American? How about death penalties for those convicted inmates you don't get along with?

The whole thing is just a bit fishy, going back to his Kenyan documents being nowhere to be found also.

Odd, that. They can't find my Paraguayan birth certificate documents either. Partly due to a horrid bureaucratic document retention, partly due to a corrupt government, but mostly because I wasn't born there.

My skepticism is not racially-based. I would vote for an african american candidate.......I just happen to not like this particular one. and this is true with a lot of people that are anti-Obama. So the racist claims are bullshit.

No, claims of racial influence are not disproven by SOME of the mass, it would have to be by the ALL. *You* may not be racist (although you've yet to PROVE that you'd vote for a black president - WHERE'S THE ABSOLUTE PROOF?!!), but that doesn't mean that people who are trying to keep this stupid argument alive aren't motivated by his dreamy chocolate pigment.

and just because I choose to remain skeptical regarding Obama's birthplace does not make me stupid or dense.

Not on its own, no.

On the flipside, should people not operate within the laws of the land? Mister Obama has been able to produce the exact same evidence that pr0ner has. Him getting more than THAT would be questionable.

Ok, listen...and then i'm done here, since we obviously disagree about this:

Really? Then how the hell is this getting to 300 pages?

I suppose I shouldn't worry - that quote is three posts ago.

Ignoring questions in a discussion is rude. Please respond to the points I mentioned above.

[Zekester]

Then clearly this is evidence of American heritage. There's a very good reason as to why Americans wear Canadian flags when traveling abroad.

that good reason being cowardice? or maybe because they're too fucking stupid to realize they live in the greatest country that ever was on this planet?

fucking assholes.

I could point out poor US global policies and the like, but it boils down to those people not wanting to starve to death in foreign restaurants all over the globe. Perhaps being the greatest country means doing whatever you want, and when there are repercussions, hiding your nationality so you can not reap what you sow.

That ain't fear, thats taking advantage.

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

Do you purposely waste people's time, Zeke? (Y/N)

see, this is where we differ the most, and why I cant stand Obama the most.......you apologize for being an American. It's despicable to think what our forefathers fought for is being so desecrated now.

and the only time being wasted here is my own, obviously

[rickfc]

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

I think there are two people in the birther camp:

• Those who know that it's a dead issue but have an agenda
• Those too ignorant or dense to accept fact

The agenda of the first group is to continue to feed the hate and paranoia of the second group come the next election.

[hepcat]

pssst....zeke....purge isn't american.

[rickfc]

pssst....zeke....purge isn't american, eh?

FTFY

[Zekester]

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

I think there are two people in the birther camp:

• Those who know that it's a dead issue but have an agenda
• Those too ignorant or dense to accept fact

The agenda of the first group is to continue to feed the hate and paranoia of the second group come the next election.

If there is any agenda then it is to try to keep this country on the right track.

A President that lied about his citizenship, and is not a citizen, can not possibly be running this country correctly.

[hepcat]

a zeke thread can be pure comedy gold.  the level of absurdity he brings to anything he feels challenged on is amazing at times. ultimately though, it's profoundly sad.

[Mr. Fed]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

"Standing by your convictions" -- like "courage" -- is morally neutral, not automatically admirable.

If I do horrific things in a "courageous" way -- that is, without regards to my own personal safety -- those things are still horrific, and there's nothing inherently admirable about my courage.  The 9/11 hijackers were "courageous" -- in the sense that they willingly went to their certain deaths to achieve their ends -- but their ends were evil, and there is nothing admirable about their courage.

Similarly, if I "stick to my convictions", that is not inherently or automatically admirable.  There's nothing inherently noble or admirable about insisting that the 1969 moon landing was a hoax -- and holding on to that belief despite the lack of supporting evidence and an avalanche of opposing evidence.  There's nothing inherently noble about insisting that Bush was behind 9/11 or that the towers were taken down by demolition.  It might be "courageous" to stick to a belief despite everyone telling you you're wrong, or an idiot, or evil, but courage is morally neutral.  This applies to both factual and moral beliefs.  There's nothing inherently admirable about continuing to believe that inter-racial marriage is morally wrong.  The fact that people disagree vocally does not confer nobility upon the belief.  It's not more noble in New York where hardly anyone agrees or less noble in Mississippi where 47% of Republicans agree.  [Aside:  Jesus Christ, what a fetid freakshow.]  

[hepcat]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

"Standing by your convictions" -- like "courage" -- is morally neutral, not automatically admirable.

If I do horrific things in a "courageous" way -- that is, without regards to my own personal safety -- those things are still horrific, and there's nothing inherently admirable about my courage.  The 9/11 hijackers were "courageous" -- in the sense that they willingly went to their certain deaths to achieve their ends -- but their ends were evil, and there is nothing admirable about their courage.

Similarly, if I "stick to my convictions", that is not inherently or automatically admirable.  There's nothing inherently noble or admirable about insisting that the 1969 moon landing was a hoax -- and holding on to that belief despite the lack of supporting evidence and an avalanche of opposing evidence.  There's nothing inherently noble about insisting that Bush was behind 9/11 or that the towers were taken down by demolition.  It might be "courageous" to stick to a belief despite everyone telling you you're wrong, or an idiot, or evil, but courage is morally neutral.  This applies to both factual and moral beliefs.  There's nothing inherently admirable about continuing to believe that inter-racial marriage is morally wrong.  The fact that people disagree vocally does not confer nobility upon the belief.  It's not more noble in New York where hardly anyone agrees or less noble in Mississippi where 47% of Republicans agree.  [Aside:  Jesus Christ, what a fetid freakshow.]  

i can guarantee you lost him after "Quote".

[Zekester]

pssst....zeke....purge isn't american.

Thats fine.

then I can easily go into how it's still dispicable for a Canadian to feel like this, considering how the US has been Canada's greatest protector,  greatest trade partner, and greatest ally for a long time.

Way to support us, eh!

[rickfc]

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

I think there are two people in the birther camp:

• Those who know that it's a dead issue but have an agenda
• Those too ignorant or dense to accept fact

The agenda of the first group is to continue to feed the hate and paranoia of the second group come the next election.

If there is any agenda then it is to try to keep this country on the right track.

A President that lied about his citizenship, and is not a citizen, can not possibly be running this country correctly.

He's done everything under the law to prove his citizenship. He could probably present the bloody lei that was put around his neck as he came out of his mother's vagina, and you still wouldn't buy it.

Which also brings up the question: why do you think that a naturalized citizen could not run the country correctly? Could they possibly not have the country's best interests at heart?

[naednek]

Bush's isn't in question.

why isn't it?  you're telling us that it's logical to have doubts about Obama's because we haven't seen his, but we can't have the same doubts about Bush's birth certificate even though you've never personally seen it?

Which facts are you contesting?

Facts are Zekester's kryptonite.

I never intended to make a "factual" statement  --Zekester

[Purge]

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

I think there are two people in the birther camp:

• Those who know that it's a dead issue but have an agenda
• Those too ignorant or dense to accept fact

The agenda of the first group is to continue to feed the hate and paranoia of the second group come the next election.

If there is any agenda then it is to try to keep this country on the right track.

A President that lied about his citizenship, and is not a citizen, can not possibly be running this country correctly.

Still didn't answer my questions.

Also, citizenship and being POTUS does not guarantee competency. Did Bush Jr. ever find those Iraqi WMDs (even AFTER invading)? (Y/N)

[Zekester]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

"Standing by your convictions" -- like "courage" -- is morally neutral, not automatically admirable.

If I do horrific things in a "courageous" way -- that is, without regards to my own personal safety -- those things are still horrific, and there's nothing inherently admirable about my courage.  The 9/11 hijackers were "courageous" -- in the sense that they willingly went to their certain deaths to achieve their ends -- but their ends were evil, and there is nothing admirable about their courage.

Similarly, if I "stick to my convictions", that is not inherently or automatically admirable.  There's nothing inherently noble or admirable about insisting that the 1969 moon landing was a hoax -- and holding on to that belief despite the lack of supporting evidence and an avalanche of opposing evidence.  There's nothing inherently noble about insisting that Bush was behind 9/11 or that the towers were taken down by demolition.  It might be "courageous" to stick to a belief despite everyone telling you you're wrong, or an idiot, or evil, but courage is morally neutral.  This applies to both factual and moral beliefs.  There's nothing inherently admirable about continuing to believe that inter-racial marriage is morally wrong.  The fact that people disagree vocally does not confer nobility upon the belief.  It's not more noble in New York where hardly anyone agrees or less noble in Mississippi where 47% of Republicans agree.  [Aside:  Jesus Christ, what a fetid freakshow.]  

I disagree with you.

Deal with it.

[Fireball1244]

Then clearly this is evidence of American heritage. There's a very good reason as to why Americans wear Canadian flags when traveling abroad.

that good reason being cowardice? or maybe because they're too fucking stupid to realize they live in the greatest country that ever was on this planet?

fucking assholes.

I could point out poor US global policies and the like, but it boils down to those people not wanting to starve to death in foreign restaurants all over the globe. Perhaps being the greatest country means doing whatever you want, and when there are repercussions, hiding your nationality so you can not reap what you sow.

That ain't fear, thats taking advantage.

Back on topic: I'm pretty sure the reason Obama isn't pursuing some sort of vindication of these accusations further is because those accusations are coming from nut-jobs and are perceived as such.

He's provided evidence. Where is the logic in arguing a point that has been made? By questioning the validity of the evidence, you call into question your own reasoning and motivations. If it's political you're wasting your own time as well as others.

Do you purposely waste people's time, Zeke? (Y/N)

see, this is where we differ the most, and why I cant stand Obama the most.......you apologize for being an American. It's despicable to think what our forefathers fought for is being so desecrated now.

Our forefathers had many different things that they fought for, most of which we still honor, many of which we've moved past, and some we now abhor. We as a nation have grown beyond being just a reflection of the group of men who founded us. That ability to grow is a strength.

and the only time being wasted here is my own, obviously

People put real effort into trying to converse with you, when you refuse to accept clear facts, or acknowledge that you might ever be wrong. The way you treat the work other people put into conversing with you on this board is meanspirited, selfish and hurtful.

[Mr. Fed]

I'd like to see just one of you stand by one of your convictions, even if it was considered wrong by everyone else, as much as I do here.

Go venture into a conservative-majority/only forum and try it sometime.

You think i'm unbend-able? LOL

"Standing by your convictions" -- like "courage" -- is morally neutral, not automatically admirable.

If I do horrific things in a "courageous" way -- that is, without regards to my own personal safety -- those things are still horrific, and there's nothing inherently admirable about my courage.  The 9/11 hijackers were "courageous" -- in the sense that they willingly went to their certain deaths to achieve their ends -- but their ends were evil, and there is nothing admirable about their courage.

Similarly, if I "stick to my convictions", that is not inherently or automatically admirable.  There's nothing inherently noble or admirable about insisting that the 1969 moon landing was a hoax -- and holding on to that belief despite the lack of supporting evidence and an avalanche of opposing evidence.  There's nothing inherently noble about insisting that Bush was behind 9/11 or that the towers were taken down by demolition.  It might be "courageous" to stick to a belief despite everyone telling you you're wrong, or an idiot, or evil, but courage is morally neutral.  This applies to both factual and moral beliefs.  There's nothing inherently admirable about continuing to believe that inter-racial marriage is morally wrong.  The fact that people disagree vocally does not confer nobility upon the belief.  It's not more noble in New York where hardly anyone agrees or less noble in Mississippi where 47% of Republicans agree.  [Aside:  Jesus Christ, what a fetid freakshow.]  

I disagree with you.

Deal with it.

Thank you, I will.  I have no problem with the concept that you disagree with me.  I respectfully dissent from the notion that disagreeing with me is inherently noble or admirable.

[Fireball1244]

A President that lied about his citizenship, and is not a citizen, can not possibly be running this country correctly.

A president who lied about his citizenship would not be president. However, there is NO evidence that Obama has lied about this matter, and you have presented none during this thread. All this thread has involved is people presenting you clear evidence of Obama's birth, and you ignoring it and refusing to even have the decency to engage with the material. You hand wave away anything that doesn't fit your preconceived nothing and never offer one fucking ounce of support for your own position.

[Zekester]

PLEASE BAN ME.

I've had enough of this place. and if i'm not banned, i'll be too tempted to return later.

MODS, PLEASE BAN ME.

[rickfc]

PLEASE BAN ME.

I've had enough of this place. and if i'm not banned, i'll be too tempted to return later.

MODS, PLEASE BAN ME.

You could always come back with a different username.