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Author Topic: Healthcare Exchanges Are Live. How's it Looking For You?  (Read 3270 times)
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raydude
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« Reply #80 on: October 21, 2013, 06:00:18 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 21, 2013, 05:22:16 PM

Quote from: raydude on October 21, 2013, 04:24:12 PM

What is there to stop an employer from doing this in a universe with no Obamacare? Or - to rephrase the question, neglecting the Obamacare option, how many of us think that the health insurance plans our employers give us are equal to or better than the health insurance plans we received fifteen years ago?

Because now they have a convenient scapegoat for gutting insurance.  Whether it's really true or not (and we all know how little people are actually paying attention outside of their preferred news provider's soundbites), they can now say "Obamacare is forcing us to discontinue health insurance" instead of "we're going to slash your benefits to increase our profit margin".  The latter would send people running for the exits while the former might not.

I'm just speculating here.  My hope is that companies will realize they still need to care for the employees in order to retain talent, but we all know that $$ will trump everything.

My point is that over a long time scale I do not conceive of a scenario in a non-Obamacare universe where employers do not eventually either drop employee health insurance because it is too expensive or because they are too focused on profit margin. I could be convinced otherwise but I think the long-term trends suggest that in a non-Obamacare universe employee health insurance would, in my lifetime or my kids lifetime, become a thing of the past - just like employer provided pension plans.
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« Reply #81 on: October 21, 2013, 09:57:54 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 21, 2013, 04:03:01 PM

Before Obamacare, why employers pay for health insurance for their employees? Is there a law that force them to do so?


No, it is a legacy of the 1950s, when both healthcare and insurance were very cheap. 100% employer-paid health insurance was a standard part of most companies' compensation plans.

That was all well and good until costs started to skyrocket in the '90s. Whether or not it still makes sense for employers to be in the insurance business is a matter of opinion. Obamacare makes companies with 50+ employees either provide insurance or pay a fine -- the first time they've been mandated to do so.
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« Reply #82 on: October 21, 2013, 10:07:34 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 21, 2013, 04:11:10 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on October 21, 2013, 03:46:16 PM

You are dreaming if you think employers who drop health coverage are going to give all the money they paid for insurance back to the employees to do the exact same job they were doing before.   It just isn't going to happen.    

As much as it pains me to agree with brett, I think he's right on this one.

In a perfect world, if a company drops their insurance and sends everyone to the exchanges, they would provide an raise equivalent to what they were previously paying.  In reality, however, I seriously doubt that's going to happen.  My guess is that lots of companies will simply drop employee's insurance with NO raise and either a) hope that their employees don't look elsewhere or b) use it as an opportunity to bring in cheaper labor.

That's been one of my biggest concerns about ACA from the get-go.  Companies are going to use this as a cost-cutting measure because there are lots of people out there looking for jobs.  They might lose some talent, but when people are strapped for cash or enjoy what they do, they're going to be reluctant to look elsewhere.

Maybe, maybe not. It didn't happen when MA adopted Romneycare, although people were afraid it might. The percentage of employers offering insurance barely budged so there's not much data on what happened to those who dropped it.

As I said earlier, if I ran a big company I would rebate 80% of the money I was spending to the employees. The other 20% would cover my penalties and pad my bottom line a little. Mostly I'd be overjoyed at getting out of the insurance business, because it's got nothing to do with my company's reason for being. Hell, I wouldn't need half of my HR department if the insurance jungle went away.

But maybe that's just me.
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« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2013, 04:10:29 AM »

Brett, I'm curious: what state do you live in?
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2013, 05:36:31 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on October 21, 2013, 09:57:54 PM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 21, 2013, 04:03:01 PM

Before Obamacare, why employers pay for health insurance for their employees? Is there a law that force them to do so?


No, it is a legacy of the 1950s, when both healthcare and insurance were very cheap. 100% employer-paid health insurance was a standard part of most companies' compensation plans.

That was all well and good until costs started to skyrocket in the '90s. Whether or not it still makes sense for employers to be in the insurance business is a matter of opinion. Obamacare makes companies with 50+ employees either provide insurance or pay a fine -- the first time they've been mandated to do so.

If there is no Obamacare, what is stopping brettmcd's employee from dropping their insurance then? Why people are blaming Obamacare for employee dropping insurance coverage if before Obamacare, there are no law that forcing employee from providing it?

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« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2013, 11:16:33 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 22, 2013, 05:36:31 AM

Quote from: Ironrod on October 21, 2013, 09:57:54 PM

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on October 21, 2013, 04:03:01 PM

Before Obamacare, why employers pay for health insurance for their employees? Is there a law that force them to do so?


No, it is a legacy of the 1950s, when both healthcare and insurance were very cheap. 100% employer-paid health insurance was a standard part of most companies' compensation plans.

That was all well and good until costs started to skyrocket in the '90s. Whether or not it still makes sense for employers to be in the insurance business is a matter of opinion. Obamacare makes companies with 50+ employees either provide insurance or pay a fine -- the first time they've been mandated to do so.

If there is no Obamacare, what is stopping brettmcd's employee from dropping their insurance then? Why people are blaming Obamacare for employee dropping insurance coverage if before Obamacare, there are no law that forcing employee from providing it?


Employer-provided health insurance became a norm in America because unions demanded it and organized worker strikes to get it.  The campaigns were so widespread and effective that even non-unionized businesses were providing insurance because it was the only way they could be competitive, and with so much market participation, insurance plans for large pools of people were extremely competitive and relatively inexpensive.

Then two things started to happen.  First, union bosses got caught doing all sorts of nasty things like extortion, bribery, and theft of union funds.  Power corrupts, and after a few high profile cases, the mainstream image of unions morphed away from groups of hard-working middle class Americans banding together to secure basic rights and benefits and into gangs of lazy thugs who relentlessly shook down their employers as part of a nationwide protection racket.

Secondly, because union-like benefits were so commonplace, workers at Company A started wondering why they had to deduct money from their paychecks for union dues when people at Company B had similar health, dental, pension, and vacation plans without a union.  The idea started to take hold that basic government labor laws had rendered the unions obsolete, and that successful corporations would gladly continue providing benefits for their workers because it was just basic decency.

Here's how that's worked out:



Quote from: ThinkProgress.org
Wages for the working class have been essentially stagnant for wages, while income inequality in the U.S. is the worst its been since the 1920s. At the moment, the top one percent of households make almost 25 percent of the nation’s income, while making about ten percent in the 1970s. Last year alone, CEO pay grew by 27 percent, while worker pay grew by just two percent.


This is what large, multinational corporations mean when they say health insurance and retirement plans are just too damn expensive to remain the norm.  These companies are more productive and more profitable measured against GDP than any other venture in human history, able to reimburse their top echelons millions of dollars a year in pay, stock options, and benefits...but by God, we must at all costs avoid returning to the days when high-rolling pensioners would start sucking the company coffers dry after barely thirty-five years of loyal service.


In other words, people are blaming ObamaCare for the expected elimination of company health care benefits because

a) Fox News seeks out affable-seeming old men to claim that's what they're doing, even if they aren't,

b) they are either unaware or uncomprehending of the marketplace forces that have been eating away at those benefits for decades, and

c) people believe the United States was founded in 1776 by a bunch of anti-slave gun enthusiasts, and then nothing happened for a really long time until Jimmy Carter handed a bunch of hostages to the Iranians and Ronald Reagan was formed out of rays of divine light to show us the one true path.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #86 on: October 22, 2013, 05:23:10 PM »

I agree with your points AA but am concerned that Obamacare will be twisted to allow companies to get out from providing healthcare insurance.  During the 80's and 90's the stock market was all go go go and companies such as the one I work for (Pacific Gas and Electric) actually never had to put money into their pension plans since it was based on company stock and the stock value was rising faster than benefits were being paid out.  When the market slumped in 2000 all of a sudden that was no longer true and many companies were underfunded in the pension plan.  Congress enacted laws designed to protect pension plans by requiring companies to keep the plans fully funded,and the result was companies just deleted pension plans and gave workers small cash balance payouts as compensation.  Companies were using the requirement to fully fund the pension plan as an excuse to remove the plan altogether.

I have no idea if Obamacare will provide for the same sort of she iguanas (hehe I tried spelling shenanigans and got auto correct she iguanas) but recent history has shown that companies surely will try and twist it around to their best profit to cost benefit.
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« Reply #87 on: October 25, 2013, 04:08:23 PM »

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« Reply #88 on: October 30, 2013, 02:02:42 PM »

"If you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan" said President Obama in 2009.

"If you already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance" said President Obama in 2012.

Oops.  Not so fast!

Quote
Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC NEWS that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.” 

None of this should come as a shock to the Obama administration. The law states that policies in effect as of March 23, 2010 will be “grandfathered,” meaning consumers can keep those policies even though they don’t meet requirements of the new health care law. But the Department of Health and Human Services then wrote regulations that narrowed that provision, by saying that if any part of a policy was significantly changed since that date -- the deductible, co-pay, or benefits, for example -- the policy would not be grandfathered.

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.” 

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Glenn Kessler at the Washington Post is on this story, too, and gave President Obama the full Monty, 4 pinocchios.

Quote
“That means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

– President Obama, speech to the American Medical Association, June 15, 2009 (as the health care law was being written.)

“And if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it.  No one will be able to take that away from you.  It hasn’t happened yet.  It won’t happen in the future.”

– Obama, remarks in Portland, April 1, 2010, after the health care law was signed into law.     

“FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans. No change is required unless insurance companies change existing plans.”

– tweet by Obama aide Valerie Jarrett, Oct. 28, 2013, after NBC News airs a report that the Obama administration knew “millions” could not keep their health insurance.

Many readers have asked us to step back into time and review these statements by the president now that it appears that as many as 2 million people may need to get a new insurance plan as the Affordable Care Act, a.k.a. Obamacare, goes into effect in 2014. As we were considering those requests, one of the president’s most senior advisers then tweeted a statement on the same issue that cried out for fact checking.

...

The administration is defending this pledge with a rather slim reed — that there is nothing in the law that makes insurance companies force people out of plans they were enrolled in before the law passed. That explanation conveniently ignores the regulations written by the administration to implement the law. Moreover, it also ignores the fact that the purpose of the law was to bolster coverage and mandate a robust set of benefits, whether someone wanted to pay for it or not.

The president’s statements were sweeping and unequivocal — and made both before and after the bill became law. The White House now cites technicalities to avoid admitting that he went too far in his repeated pledge, which, after all, is one of the most famous statements of his presidency.

The president’s promise apparently came with a very large caveat: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan — if we deem it to be adequate.”
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« Reply #89 on: October 30, 2013, 10:43:41 PM »

It was bullshit when he said it, every time he said it. The plans are the products of the insurance companies. If they decide to no longer offer them, grandfathered status or no, that's their decision. If it was an employer-paid plan, it was also their decision every year before the open enrollment period. The idea that the end consumer has a say in whether or not they get to keep a product is not now, has never been, and never will be the call of the consumer.
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« Reply #90 on: October 31, 2013, 06:04:13 PM »

All this talk about the web site failure etc.  got me thinking about what good has been done by Obamacare, if any.  Then I saw this post on GamersWithJobs.  Good reminder for me anyway.  I wish "fair and balanced" news outlets would talk about this list as well as the cluster fuck of healthcare.gov.

Quote
Tangible Results of Obamacare To Date

2010
<ol> <li> Children can stay on their parent's health insurance up to the age of 26.</li>
<li>Health plans can no longer limit or deny benefits to children under 19 due to a pre-existing condition.</li>
<li>Insurance companies can no longer retroactively cancel your insurance because you made a mistake on your application.</li>
<li>Provided insurance options for people who had been uninsured for more than six months due to a pre-existing condition.</li>
<li>Eliminated lifetime benefit limits on most insurance policies.</li>
<li>Began phasing out annual benefit limits on insurance policies: can't have policy that limits benefits to less than $750,000.</li>
<li>Established a formal appeals process that requires insurance companies to explain why they denied you a treatment or service or payment for a treatment or service.  Also establishes an independent, outside review board that allows you to contest your insurance provider's decision.</li>
<li>Provided 4 million small businesses with tax credits to provide their employees with health insurance (up to 35% of the premiums employers pay).</li>
<li>Preventative services, such as mammograms and colonoscopies, are made available without charging a deductible or copay.</li>
<li>New healthcare fraud prevention measures initiated that saved more than $100 million in their first year.</li>
<li>Provided financial assistance early retirees--55 to 65 year-olds--to help them purchase health insurance until 2014.
<li>Provided scholarships and paid back loans for primary care doctors and nurses as well as medical professionals in under-served areas.</li>
<li>Increased payment to healthcare providers in rural and underserved areas.</li>
<li>Required insurance providers who increased their rates more than 10% to explain the reason for the increase to state rate boards.</li>
<li>Federal matching funds for low-income families and those on state Medicaid.</li> </ol>

2011
<ol> <li>85% of premium dollars for large employer insurance policies have to be spent on providing health care services or health care quality improvements.</li>
<li>80% of premium dollars for small employer and individual insurance policies have to be spent on providing health care services or health care quality improvements.</li>
<li>Continued phasing out annual benefit limits on insurance policies: can't have policies that limit benefits to less than $1.25 million.</li>
<li>50% discount on prescription drugs for seniors that hit the doughnut hole of Medicare Part D.</li>
<li>Medicare recipients get preventative services, such as wellness visits and personalized prevention plans.</li>
<li>Established Center for Medicare & Medicaid Innovation to test new ways of delivering care to patients with the goal of reducing costs for Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP.</li>
<li>Established Community Care Transitions Program to help avoid costly readmissions of at-risk Medicare beneficiaries after hospitalization.</li>
<li>Disabled people can access Medicaid services at home rather than requiring them to be institutionalized at a nursing home before getting said services.</li>
<li>Began eliminating the overpayment for Medicare Advantage policies.</li> </ol>

2012
<ol> <li>Continued phasing out annual benefit limits on insurance policies: can't have policies that limit benefits to less than $2 million.</li>
<li>Began linking Medicare payments to the health outcome of a service rather than just the service itself to improve results and reduce costs.</li>
<li>Launched Accountable Care Organizations for Medicare that allow doctors and hospitals to coordinate care of patients while reducing costs.  Doctors and hospitals get to keep a percentage of the money they save Medicare as long as the meet quality of care targets.</li>
<li>Began transition away from paper records to electronic records and medical files.</li>
<li>Began collecting data to identify and reduce healthcare disparities.</li> </ol>

2013
<ol> <li>Increased Medicaid payments to doctors for primary care services.</li>
<li>Provided additional funding to state Medicaid programs to cover preventative care.</li>
<li>Launch program to encourage healthcare providers to better coordinate and improve care by bundling Medicare payments.</li>
<li>Launched healthcare.gov and the insurance exchanges.</li> </ol>

I'm not sure you want me to contrast all these tangible results of Obamacare with the tangible results of Republicans because that list would start with the 42 failed votes to abolish, delay, or defund Obamacare and end with the government shutdown that cost the American economy tens of billions of dollars.

What should be clear to you, though, is that there is a shitload more to Obamacare than healthcare.gov and some of those elements of the law have been up and running for years now. 
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« Reply #91 on: October 31, 2013, 09:37:11 PM »

One of the most basic points of the Affordable Care Act was to stop insurance companies from continuously hiking premiums and co-pays without providing any additional services.  To that end, here's part of the Glenn Kessler article that pr0ner didn't include in his quotes:

Quote from: The Washington Post
The law did allow “grandfathered” plans — for people who had obtained their insurance before the law was signed on March 23, 2010 — to escape this requirement and some other aspects of the law. But the regulations written by HHS while implementing the law set some tough guidelines, so that if an insurance company makes changes to a plan’s benefits or how much members pay through premiums, co-pays or deductibles, then a person’s plan likely loses that status.

If you dig into the regulations (go to page 34560), you will see that HHS wrote them extremely tight. One provision says that if co-payment increases by more than $5, plus medical cost of inflation, then the plan can no longer be grandfathered. (With last year’s inflation rate of 4 percent, that means the co-pay could not increase by more than $5.20.) Another provision says the co-insurance rate could not be increased at all above the level it was on March 23, 2010.


In short, the ACA was written to allow people to keep their existing plans while forbidding insurance providers from ratcheting up the price for that privilege.  It also requires that insurance companies actually honor the terms of their contracts by paying out when people get sick, rather than rescinding the policy and keeping years of paid premiums for themselves.

This means all those cheap "junk policies" aren't lucrative any more, so the insurance companies are responding by offering comprehensive coverage plans as mandated by the law.

That's what Conservatives are lashing out about right now: the fact that the ACA has made it unprofitable for insurers to sell people ever-more expensive snake oil, so people are being "forced" to receive actual coverage.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #92 on: October 31, 2013, 10:50:45 PM »

And the decision of those companies to stop offering the grandfathered plans is a free market decision, not as a direct result of government action to remove them. 

Here's a pithy breakdown on the grandfathering regulations.  There's room to wiggle, but not as much to soak people on grandfathered plans as there is in the new market area.
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« Reply #93 on: November 05, 2013, 01:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on October 31, 2013, 09:37:11 PM


In short, the ACA was written to allow people to keep their existing plans while forbidding insurance providers from ratcheting up the price for that privilege.  It also requires that insurance companies actually honor the terms of their contracts by paying out when people get sick, rather than rescinding the policy and keeping years of paid premiums for themselves.

This means all those cheap "junk policies" aren't lucrative any more, so the insurance companies are responding by offering comprehensive coverage plans as mandated by the law.

Waitaminute - so prior to Obamacare insurance companies could sell these junk policies and then say "oh you're sick? Tooo bad, your coverage just expired today, so sorry!" without any repercussions? Whatever happened to free market economic principles that were supposed to weed out these kinds of policies? Surely the people would flock to an insurer that offered cheap policies without the shenanigans and, via sound capitalist principles, ensure that the market would drive out the bad policies and only keep the good ones?

Waiting to hear from free market advocates...
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« Reply #94 on: November 05, 2013, 02:40:06 PM »

Quote from: raydude on November 05, 2013, 01:05:08 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on October 31, 2013, 09:37:11 PM


In short, the ACA was written to allow people to keep their existing plans while forbidding insurance providers from ratcheting up the price for that privilege.  It also requires that insurance companies actually honor the terms of their contracts by paying out when people get sick, rather than rescinding the policy and keeping years of paid premiums for themselves.

This means all those cheap "junk policies" aren't lucrative any more, so the insurance companies are responding by offering comprehensive coverage plans as mandated by the law.

Waitaminute - so prior to Obamacare insurance companies could sell these junk policies and then say "oh you're sick? Tooo bad, your coverage just expired today, so sorry!" without any repercussions? Whatever happened to free market economic principles that were supposed to weed out these kinds of policies? Surely the people would flock to an insurer that offered cheap policies without the shenanigans and, via sound capitalist principles, ensure that the market would drive out the bad policies and only keep the good ones?

Waiting to hear from free market advocates...

Stop pretending that prior to Obamacare we had anything remotely resembling a free market in the health care industry. A free market requires unregulated prices and the ability of any company to enter the market to compete. Companies can only overcharge when the government limits their competition through regulations (i.e., making it too expensive to run a start-up) or outright barriers (e.g., not letting insurance companies do business across state lines).
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« Reply #95 on: November 05, 2013, 04:22:52 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on November 05, 2013, 02:40:06 PM

Quote from: raydude on November 05, 2013, 01:05:08 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on October 31, 2013, 09:37:11 PM


In short, the ACA was written to allow people to keep their existing plans while forbidding insurance providers from ratcheting up the price for that privilege.  It also requires that insurance companies actually honor the terms of their contracts by paying out when people get sick, rather than rescinding the policy and keeping years of paid premiums for themselves.

This means all those cheap "junk policies" aren't lucrative any more, so the insurance companies are responding by offering comprehensive coverage plans as mandated by the law.

Waitaminute - so prior to Obamacare insurance companies could sell these junk policies and then say "oh you're sick? Tooo bad, your coverage just expired today, so sorry!" without any repercussions? Whatever happened to free market economic principles that were supposed to weed out these kinds of policies? Surely the people would flock to an insurer that offered cheap policies without the shenanigans and, via sound capitalist principles, ensure that the market would drive out the bad policies and only keep the good ones?

Waiting to hear from free market advocates...

Stop pretending that prior to Obamacare we had anything remotely resembling a free market in the health care industry. A free market requires unregulated prices and the ability of any company to enter the market to compete. Companies can only overcharge when the government limits their competition through regulations (i.e., making it too expensive to run a start-up) or outright barriers (e.g., not letting insurance companies do business across state lines).

Wait, so it's because of government regulations that we had companies pulling cheap policy shenanigans?  eek

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/03/junk-health-insurance/index.htm
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« Reply #96 on: November 05, 2013, 05:52:09 PM »

Quote from: raydude on November 05, 2013, 04:22:52 PM

Wait, so it's because of government regulations that we had companies pulling cheap policy shenanigans?  eek

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/03/junk-health-insurance/index.htm

Companies offer cheap premiums and people are surprised when they don't get the same coverage? Shocking! If only the government could come in and make it all "free".  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #97 on: November 05, 2013, 08:03:43 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on November 05, 2013, 02:40:06 PM

Stop pretending that prior to Obamacare we had anything remotely resembling a free market in the health care industry. A free market requires unregulated prices and the ability of any company to enter the market to compete. Companies can only overcharge when the government limits their competition through regulations (i.e., making it too expensive to run a start-up) or outright barriers (e.g., not letting insurance companies do business across state lines).


Here's a list of the top 25 most profitable health insurance companies as of 2009.  Together, they accounted for about 64% of the marketplace with a few hundred smaller providers divvying up the final third.  Under the crushing yoke of excessive government regulations, these poor persecuted conglomerates barely able to scrape together $650,000,000,000 in premiums that year.

How much more competition do you believe is necessary to constitute a "free market?"  Also, can you link us to a list of which states have passed laws preventing certain insurance providers from doing business within their borders?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #98 on: November 05, 2013, 08:13:11 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on November 05, 2013, 05:52:09 PM

Quote from: raydude on November 05, 2013, 04:22:52 PM

Wait, so it's because of government regulations that we had companies pulling cheap policy shenanigans?  eek

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2012/03/junk-health-insurance/index.htm

Companies offer cheap premiums fake insurance and people are surprised when they don't get the same any coverage? Shocking! If only the government could come in and make it all "free".  legit health insurance Roll Eyes

Fixed that for you. Because you don't seem to have read the link.
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A Pew Research Center poll found nearly half of Americans hold the false belief that TARP was passed under President Obama, while only 34 percent know it originated under Bush.
"Oh yeah?" Bush replied. "50% of the people were wrong."
Autistic Angel
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« Reply #99 on: November 05, 2013, 09:27:16 PM »

I'm going to vote that we skip the next few plot points and get right to the climax: "Stop preventing insurance companies from competing across state lines!" is Conservative newspeak for "We demand the federal government eliminate the right of each state to determine its own healthcare policies."

Large insurance carriers like Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, and Humana are free to offer competing health insurance plans in all fifty states, and to the best of my knowledge, they all do.  The thing they *weren't* allowed to do was craft a health insurance plan that met regulatory requirements established by the state government in Tennessee and then sell that plan to residents of California where the requirements were more strict.  That would have allowed the largest insurance companies to adapt their plans to the lowest, most lax regulations in the country and sell them nationwide, circumventing state laws and easily undercutting smaller local competitors.  It's literally using the power of the federal government to take away existing state rights -- which Conservatives often claim makes them so mad! -- and reset the median quality of health coverage to the lowest possible level in the name of making everything better.

Ironically, the passage of the ACA gave Conservatives exactly what they said they wanted: insurance providers can now easily craft plans that pass muster in nearly every state in the union.  Instant competition across state lines!  The thing they're all upset about is that this was accomplished by establishing strict new national requirements for all insurance plans, so rather than picking and choosing which state regulations would net them the greatest profits, insurance companies are competing in a marketplace where everybody has cover pre-existing conditions, charge reasonable premiums and co-pays, and actually honor the terms of the policy when one of their consumers get sick.

-Autistic Angel
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Freezer-TPF-
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« Reply #100 on: November 06, 2013, 02:51:06 PM »

Well put, AA.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #101 on: November 06, 2013, 05:01:51 PM »

Quote from: Freezer-TPF- on November 06, 2013, 02:51:06 PM

Well put, AA.

Thank you for posting the funniest thing I have seen on this site in months.    I needed a good laugh.
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raydude
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« Reply #102 on: November 06, 2013, 05:04:19 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 05, 2013, 09:27:16 PM

I'm going to vote that we skip the next few plot points and get right to the climax: "Stop preventing insurance companies from competing across state lines!" is Conservative newspeak for "We demand the federal government eliminate the right of each state to determine its own healthcare policies."

Large insurance carriers like Anthem, Aetna, Cigna, and Humana are free to offer competing health insurance plans in all fifty states, and to the best of my knowledge, they all do.  The thing they *weren't* allowed to do was craft a health insurance plan that met regulatory requirements established by the state government in Tennessee and then sell that plan to residents of California where the requirements were more strict.  That would have allowed the largest insurance companies to adapt their plans to the lowest, most lax regulations in the country and sell them nationwide, circumventing state laws and easily undercutting smaller local competitors.  It's literally using the power of the federal government to take away existing state rights -- which Conservatives often claim makes them so mad! -- and reset the median quality of health coverage to the lowest possible level in the name of making everything better.
-Autistic Angel

Where I have I read something like this happening before? Oh Yeah, this is exactly what happened when credit card companies were allowed to export whatever interest rates were allowed in the state they were headquartered! That's why most credit card bills seem to get mailed to South Dakota, Nevada or Delaware, since they essentially let companies headquartered there charge whatever interest rates they want!

I forsee health insurance companies all moving to someplace like Louisiana or Texas if what AA is suggesting conservatives actually want comes to pass.
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A Pew Research Center poll found nearly half of Americans hold the false belief that TARP was passed under President Obama, while only 34 percent know it originated under Bush.
"Oh yeah?" Bush replied. "50% of the people were wrong."
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