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Author Topic: Fiscal Conservatives, hard at work  (Read 5995 times)
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unbreakable
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« on: January 18, 2008, 09:20:18 PM »

More fun with FEMA:

Quote
FEMA Flip-Flops Again on Trailers

Those trailers the Federal Emergency Management Agency bought to house Hurricane Katrina victims were at the center of the storm again yesterday -- and not in a way that's going to make folks at the beleaguered agency any happier.

FEMA hurriedly bought the 145,000 trailers and mobile homes via no-bid contracts just before and after Katrina hit the coast in August 2005. But the purchase quickly became problematic, with some communities refusing them for a variety of reasons.

FEMA was forced to put trailers on the market, selling them to anyone for 40 cents on the dollar.

Yesterday, however, the emergency agency offered to buy them back, for their original purchase price, because of concerns that the trailers are tainted with formaldehyde. The agency said it is making the offer because of concerns about "possible adverse health effects" associated with the trailers.

More than 10,800 trailers were sold to the public by the General Services Administration from July 2006 until the program was suspended in July 2007, FEMA officials said. All of the trailers bought directly from the GSA will be eligible for the full buybacks, although purchasers will be responsible for getting the trailers back to FEMA drop-off points.

Anyone want to bet a lot of those trailers were sold to, and will be repurchased from, a whole lot of "Loyal Bushies"?
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denoginizer
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 09:35:27 PM »

Anyone could buy the trailers through the gsa auctions website. http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/
I work for the treasury department and we process payments to GSA Auctions through my department.

It does not ask whether or not you support "Da Bushies" when you register to the site.  Do you have any actual evidence about this one? Or are you just pulling another theory out of your ass?
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unbreakable
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 09:41:01 PM »

Anyone "could"... so you know that it was a random grouping of people?  Or is this just a knee-jerk defense you are pulling out of your ass?

BTW... I know ad hominem is your preferred method of discourse... but please try keeping it civil.


Also... the GSA seems to have been having credibility issues of it's own.

Quote
GSA Chief Is Accused of Playing Politics

Witnesses have told congressional investigators that the chief of the General Services Administration and a deputy in Karl Rove's political affairs office at the White House joined in a videoconference earlier this year with top GSA political appointees, who discussed ways to help Republican candidates.

With GSA Administrator Lurita Alexis Doan and up to 40 regional administrators on hand, J. Scott Jennings, the White House's deputy director of political affairs, gave a PowerPoint presentation on Jan. 26 of polling data about the 2006 elections.
 
When Jennings concluded his presentation to the GSA political appointees, Doan allegedly asked them how they could "help 'our candidates' in the next elections," according to a March 6 letter to Doan from Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Waxman said in the letter that one method suggested was using "targeted public events, such as the opening of federal facilities around the country."

So yeah... I can understand why you might immediately jump to the defense of "Loyal Bushies".
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 09:47:01 PM by unbreakable » Logged
denoginizer
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 09:53:08 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:41:01 PM

Anyone "could"... so you know that it was a random grouping of people?  Or is this just a knee-jerk defense you are pulling out of your ass?

Actually all web-based ACH payments to the GSA go through my department at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland so I can tell you that it was a very random grouping of people from over 20 states that purchased the trailers.  Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary?

You started the topic about something I am very familiar with so I am assuming you actually have some evidence to back up your claim.
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Doopri
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 09:54:13 PM »

if you want to get really frustrated about how certain government buy backs and sales went, read about the property blocks that were sold following the '80s s&l scandals.

while it did help alleviate some of the pressure on government losses - there were some absurd deals
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 09:55:44 PM »

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go through my department at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland

hey no kidding huh? (not that i work there as well i just think its neat you work there)
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unbreakable
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 09:57:05 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 18, 2008, 09:53:08 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:41:01 PM

Anyone "could"... so you know that it was a random grouping of people?  Or is this just a knee-jerk defense you are pulling out of your ass?

Actually all web-based ACH payments to the GSA go through my department at the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland so I can tell you that it was a very random grouping of people from over 20 states that purchased the trailers.  Do you have any actual evidence to the contrary?

So... you've checked these names against a list of Republican donors?  I'm honestly surprised you would even have thought to do that!

Quote
You started the topic about something I am very familiar with so I am assuming you actually have some evidence to back up your claim.

I recall saying "does anyone want to bet...".   That doesn't sound like an accusation to me.

It is kind of interesting how much you've overreacted, though.  Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 10:01:00 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:57:05 PM

I recall saying "does anyone want to bet...".   That doesn't sound like an accusation to me.

It is kind of interesting how much you've overreacted, though.  Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

So now you backpedal? 

I protest because I am tired of you posting BS conspiracy theories about issues which you nothing about.  I am personally very familiar with this issue so I am calling you out.
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Lee
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 10:44:03 PM »

The military uses GSA quite extensively, it has nothing to do with Bush. Another non-issue.
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unbreakable
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 18, 2008, 10:01:00 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:57:05 PM

I recall saying "does anyone want to bet...".   That doesn't sound like an accusation to me.

It is kind of interesting how much you've overreacted, though.  Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

So now you backpedal? 

I protest because I am tired of you posting BS conspiracy theories about issues which you nothing about.  I am personally very familiar with this issue so I am calling you out.

Backpedal on what?  Can you read?  Go look at the first post, and quit acting like a jackass.

And you don't SOUND like you know what you are talking about... you sound like someone TRYING to sound like they know what they are talking about.

You never answered my question about the testing you do.  Do you guys check the incoming information against a list of Republican donors... yes or no?
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Lee
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008, 10:56:56 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM

Backpedal on what?  Can you read?  Go look at the first post, and quit acting like a jackass.

Resorting to insults?

Edit: Here's an idea Unbreakable since you obviously don't know anything about the GSA, do some research on them! You might learn something.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 11:00:48 PM by Lee » Logged
unbreakable
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2008, 11:09:12 PM »

Quote from: Lee on January 18, 2008, 10:56:56 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM

Backpedal on what?  Can you read?  Go look at the first post, and quit acting like a jackass.

Resorting to insults?

Edit: Here's an idea Unbreakable since you obviously don't know anything about the GSA, do some research on them! You might learn something.

No, I'm not resorting to insults, since denoginizer has insulted me in each post in this thread.  That was quite literally a request.

Likewise, you are once again dropping by for a hit-and-run, claiming that I somehow don't know anything, but doing absolutely nothing to prove your claim.  This despite your prior claims being disproven by me.

It's really funny- both you and denoginizer claim to be experts, and yet you really don't come across as knowing anything about anything.  And certainly don't put any effort into demonstrating the validity of anything you say.  So rather than actually proving me wrong... you guys just engage in character assassination.  Which is, of course, typical.


So Lee, as an on-topic question, since you know SO much about, well, everything, care to tell us how much of our tax dollars this recent smooth move by FEMA is going to cost us?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 11:12:27 PM by unbreakable » Logged
denoginizer
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2008, 11:18:04 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM


You never answered my question about the testing you do.  Do you guys check the incoming information against a list of Republican donors... yes or no?

Of course we don't test. 

But you are suggesting that only Republican donors were allowed to purchase those trailers.  You posted the thread accusing the GSA and FEMA of being in a conspiracy with the Republican party.  The onus is on you to prove your accusations.  I posted the site above where anybody could purchase them.  Did you even bother to read the bottom of the GSA auction page? 

Just to clarify.  I do think the buyback program is an overreaction and a complete waste of Federal money.  But to suggest that it is a Republican kickback scheme is pure fantasy. But we already know that you are great at presenting your opinion as fact about things you know absolutely nothing about.
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Lee
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« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2008, 11:23:09 PM »

Edit: Deleted, I don't know why I even bother.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 02:02:04 AM by Lee » Logged
unbreakable
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2008, 02:32:40 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 18, 2008, 11:18:04 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM


You never answered my question about the testing you do.  Do you guys check the incoming information against a list of Republican donors... yes or no?

Of course we don't test.

So... obviously you can't state with any authority whatsoever that my idea is wrong.

End of story.

And yet here you are, trying to do so...
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Lee
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 03:19:24 AM »

Actually hes right, I saw some trailers in the GSA catalog the other day, but there was a little note at the bottom of the page saying you could only buy them if you were friends of Bush. I thought that was kind of weird, but it all makes sense now. Thanks Unbreakable!
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 03:49:21 AM »

I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and think that the manipulations of the power elite go far beyond what most people want to imagine, but even I think you're overreaching on this one Unbreakable.
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Lee
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 03:58:36 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on January 19, 2008, 03:49:21 AM

I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist, and think that the manipulations of the power elite go far beyond what most people want to imagine, but even I think you're overreaching on this one Unbreakable.

Yeah, I am not even sure what he is getting at really. No one made money off it since the article said that FEMA bought them back for the price they were sold. In fact FEMA is losing a ton of money, which makes Bush look even worse.
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 05:14:02 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 18, 2008, 09:35:27 PM

Anyone could buy the trailers through the gsa auctions website. http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/gsaauctions/
I work for the treasury department and we process payments to GSA Auctions through my department.

It does not ask whether or not you support "Da Bushies" when you register to the site.  Do you have any actual evidence about this one? Or are you just pulling another theory out of your ass?

He's just trolling.
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2008, 05:15:42 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:41:01 PM

Anyone "could"... so you know that it was a random grouping of people?  Or is this just a knee-jerk defense you are pulling out of your ass?

BTW... I know ad hominem is your preferred method of discourse... but please try keeping it civil.


Also... the GSA seems to have been having credibility issues of it's own.

Quote
GSA Chief Is Accused of Playing Politics

Witnesses have told congressional investigators that the chief of the General Services Administration and a deputy in Karl Rove's political affairs office at the White House joined in a videoconference earlier this year with top GSA political appointees, who discussed ways to help Republican candidates.

With GSA Administrator Lurita Alexis Doan and up to 40 regional administrators on hand, J. Scott Jennings, the White House's deputy director of political affairs, gave a PowerPoint presentation on Jan. 26 of polling data about the 2006 elections.
 
When Jennings concluded his presentation to the GSA political appointees, Doan allegedly asked them how they could "help 'our candidates' in the next elections," according to a March 6 letter to Doan from Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. Waxman said in the letter that one method suggested was using "targeted public events, such as the opening of federal facilities around the country."

So yeah... I can understand why you might immediately jump to the defense of "Loyal Bushies".


Your lastname isn't Clinton by chance? You sure weild a smear stick like one.
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2008, 05:21:14 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on January 18, 2008, 10:01:00 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 09:57:05 PM

I recall saying "does anyone want to bet...".   That doesn't sound like an accusation to me.

It is kind of interesting how much you've overreacted, though.  Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

So now you backpedal? 

I protest because I am tired of you posting BS conspiracy theories about issues which you nothing about.  I am personally very familiar with this issue so I am calling you out.

Backpedal on what?  Can you read?  Go look at the first post, and quit acting like a jackass.

And you don't SOUND like you know what you are talking about... you sound like someone TRYING to sound like they know what they are talking about.

You never answered my question about the testing you do.  Do you guys check the incoming information against a list of Republican donors... yes or no?

Why in the world would the GSA care about political donations of people buying stuff at auctions? That is just ridiculus. Have you changed tin foil hats recently?
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2008, 05:27:15 AM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 11:09:12 PM

Quote from: Lee on January 18, 2008, 10:56:56 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 18, 2008, 10:51:53 PM

Backpedal on what?  Can you read?  Go look at the first post, and quit acting like a jackass.

Resorting to insults?

Edit: Here's an idea Unbreakable since you obviously don't know anything about the GSA, do some research on them! You might learn something.

No, I'm not resorting to insults, since denoginizer has insulted me in each post in this thread.  That was quite literally a request.

Likewise, you are once again dropping by for a hit-and-run, claiming that I somehow don't know anything, but doing absolutely nothing to prove your claim.  This despite your prior claims being disproven by me.

It's really funny- both you and denoginizer claim to be experts, and yet you really don't come across as knowing anything about anything.  And certainly don't put any effort into demonstrating the validity of anything you say.  So rather than actually proving me wrong... you guys just engage in character assassination.  Which is, of course, typical.


So Lee, as an on-topic question, since you know SO much about, well, everything, care to tell us how much of our tax dollars this recent smooth move by FEMA is going to cost us?

Who cares? I don't think anyone would argue that government bureaucracies are usually totally wasteful and inefficient. The issue is that you are putting forth an assumption that this is likely some way of passing down political kickback money to supporters. You haven't however offered a single iota of information to even conclude that such a thing has a probability any higher than the probability that you will soon obtain your Phd from Harvard.
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2008, 05:29:58 AM »

Quote from: Lee on January 19, 2008, 03:19:24 AM

Actually hes right, I saw some trailers in the GSA catalog the other day, but there was a little note at the bottom of the page saying you could only buy them if you were friends of Bush. I thought that was kind of weird, but it all makes sense now. Thanks Unbreakable!

Oh you really messed up now buddy. That is sensitive info you are throwing around there. Better pack your bags for the Artic.

 icon_mrgreen
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unbreakable
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2008, 06:02:34 AM »

Wow, the astro-turfers are out in force tonight.

You guys do an excellent job of changing the focus of the thread away from the wrongdoing, and onto attacking the messanger.  Good job!  You guys are true professionals.
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Lee
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 06:36:28 AM »

Honestly what is the wrong doing here? FEMA screwed up bad, but who made any money off this?
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unbreakable
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2008, 06:44:00 AM »

Quote from: Lee on January 19, 2008, 06:36:28 AM

Honestly what is the wrong doing here? FEMA screwed up bad, but who made any money off this?

That's a pretty good question.  It certainly bears investigating... doesn't it?

Kind of amazing, however, that you can just authoritatively state that not only did nobody profit from this, but those who did definitely weren't Republicans.
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2008, 07:12:43 AM »

I am so lost here.

FEMA sales 10,000 trailers from LA for $6000+ each.
Turns out the trailers are contanimated.
FEMA says bring us back the trailers and we will give you your money back.
FEMA loses even more money. The government looks even worse in the eyes of everyone.

I can't see anything fishy here no matter how I twist it. Explain to me what the scary "Oh my god Bush did it!" thing is coming from?
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2008, 07:30:01 AM »

You... don't see anything fishy here.

Oh well, looks like that's half the problem here.  I suggest we let this story cook for a while, and see if there are further developments.  Kind of like we did with the Iranian "attack boats".
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 07:31:41 AM »

Honestly, tell me what you see that is fishy.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 07:38:05 AM by Lee » Logged
unbreakable
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2008, 07:33:09 AM »

Quote
FEMA sales 10,000 trailers from LA for $6000+ each.
Turns out the trailers are contanimated.
FEMA says bring us back the trailers and we will give you your money back.
FEMA loses even more money.
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« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2008, 07:43:35 AM »

So it's fishy because the government is involved???
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« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2008, 12:30:36 PM »

I think what Unb is saying is that FEMA sold the contaminated units (knowingly) to the republican people, as they knew they'd be buying them back at full market value rather than the price purchased from auction.

The only way this works in the conspiracy theory is if the auctions were rigged so that mostly only repubs knew about it / FEMA steered the auction process and sold mostly to republicans.

That's a little too far fetched unless the whole thing was planned as a way to launder money into republican pockets. It's within the realm of possibility I suppose, but it's nowhere near likelyhood.
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« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2008, 02:59:21 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 19, 2008, 12:30:36 PM

The only way this works in the conspiracy theory is if the auctions were rigged so that mostly only repubs knew about it / FEMA steered the auction process and sold mostly to republicans.

Why would anyone need to rig the auctions?  You just let your Loyal Bushies know that FEMA will buy back the trailers after the auction.  Then they'll just buy up as many trailers as they can.  No auction rigging required.

Quote
That's a little too far fetched unless the whole thing was planned as a way to launder money into republican pockets. It's within the realm of possibility I suppose, but it's nowhere near likelyhood.

Doesn't seem far fetched... or even difficult to arrange.  They already made over $8 Billion disappear in Iraq, and it's still going on.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 03:04:24 PM by unbreakable » Logged
Lee
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« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2008, 03:33:02 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 19, 2008, 12:30:36 PM

.. as they knew they'd be buying them back at full market value rather than the price purchased from auction.

There is nothing to lead you to believe that they are getting refunded the price originally paid the trailers though (market value).

The original article says:
Quote
eligible for the full buybacks, although purchasers will be responsible for getting the trailers back to FEMA drop-off points

Other articles on the same story say people can get a refund if they bring the trailer back. None of the articles suggest people made money off of it.

Don't you think there would be a huge outrage in the article and this item would be headlines everywhere if people were getting paid $20,000 for a $6,000 trailer? The articles point is that FEMA screwed up again, that's why this was a back page news story. Also if you a search for FEMA trailers, you can see links for the original auction, they were open to almost anyone (not that I researched that one too hard).

If I am going to assume information I can turn literally turn every news story on CNN into some sort of conspiracy.

Edit: I sent the author of the article an email asking him to clear up his use of the words "full buyback." I feel a bit silly asking, because it seems pretty obvious to me.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 04:45:08 PM by Lee » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2008, 04:32:24 PM »

Yeah, there are a lot of things that I think have a high likelihood for sinister underpinnings, but I don't think this is one of them. I think this is just one of the cases of pure government incompetence. Sure, I can see how it could possibly be a back-room dealing, but there's no evidence indicating it right now and my gut feeling is that it's just not a conspiracy.
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« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2008, 07:56:45 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 19, 2008, 02:59:21 PM

Quote from: Purge on January 19, 2008, 12:30:36 PM

The only way this works in the conspiracy theory is if the auctions were rigged so that mostly only repubs knew about it / FEMA steered the auction process and sold mostly to republicans.

Why would anyone need to rig the auctions?  You just let your Loyal Bushies know that FEMA will buy back the trailers after the auction.  Then they'll just buy up as many trailers as they can.  No auction rigging required.

Quote
That's a little too far fetched unless the whole thing was planned as a way to launder money into republican pockets. It's within the realm of possibility I suppose, but it's nowhere near likelyhood.

Doesn't seem far fetched... or even difficult to arrange.  They already made over $8 Billion disappear in Iraq, and it's still going on.

So any money that has gone missing in Iraq was all part of the plan as well? Shit these guys are more skilled and capable than I ever imagined. Sounds like we should keep them in power.
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« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2008, 08:20:36 PM »

Quote from: Rip on January 19, 2008, 07:56:45 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 19, 2008, 02:59:21 PM

Doesn't seem far fetched... or even difficult to arrange.  They already made over $8 Billion disappear in Iraq, and it's still going on.

So any money that has gone missing in Iraq was all part of the plan as well? Shit these guys are more skilled and capable than I ever imagined. Sounds like we should keep them in power.

Spoken like a true "Fiscal Conservative".

But somehow, I don't see how letting Republicans plunder our public funds benefits me, you, or our nation in any way.  Perhaps you can explain that part?
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