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Author Topic: Everyone in this forum please read  (Read 8867 times)
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msteelers
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« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2008, 01:38:11 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:59:25 AM

Quote
I think some of us - myself included - need to recognize that we've more a part of the problem than part of the solution lately.  We also had a large influx of new posters who may have been used to posting in a different manner than what we've typically had here at GT.  This thread may help both sides of the equation - helping those of us who have gotten shrill to get our act together and provide more guidance to newer members on the GT method of R&P posting.

No offense, but I've seen far more troll-like, personal flaming behavior here in GT than I ever did in OO. Maybe it's us who should be giving you lessons.

+1

OO gets personal in some situations, and some people get it much worse than others. But I have seen some posts here where I would have been very offended if I was the target of the attack.
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« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2008, 02:34:29 PM »

Hell, just shut down GT.  I mean, there's plenty of other gaming forums around.

+1 petty
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Captain Caveman
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« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2008, 03:07:23 PM »

Quote from: Trappin on June 25, 2008, 02:34:29 PM

Hell, just shut down GT.  I mean, there's plenty of other gaming forums around.

+1 petty

Not really.

I don't come to GT just for gaming discussion, but for gaming discussion involving THIS community. I like the people here. Likewise, I enjoy the R&P forum not because of the topics under discussion, but because of the people discussing them. I've ventured to other forums outside of the GT/OO/PH trinity, but it's my fondness and familiarity with the members of these communities that keeps me coming back time and again.
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cheeba
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« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2008, 03:35:18 PM »

You guys just need to find a moderator for this forum who enjoys political/religious discourse and debate, specifically of the sort that invariably happens on a political forum. It's pretty clear that the current mods do not. I can't imagine the volume of reports is so much that one who is well versed in this forum would be overwhelmed.
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2008, 03:51:35 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 25, 2008, 03:35:18 PM

You guys just need to find a moderator for this forum who enjoys political/religious discourse and debate, specifically of the sort that invariably happens on a political forum. It's pretty clear that the current mods do not. I can't imagine the volume of reports is so much that one who is well versed in this forum would be overwhelmed.

blackadar for Mod!  icon_twisted
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UsulofDoom
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« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2008, 04:12:52 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 25, 2008, 03:51:35 PM

Quote from: cheeba on June 25, 2008, 03:35:18 PM

You guys just need to find a moderator for this forum who enjoys political/religious discourse and debate, specifically of the sort that invariably happens on a political forum. It's pretty clear that the current mods do not. I can't imagine the volume of reports is so much that one who is well versed in this forum would be overwhelmed.

blackadar for Mod!  icon_twisted

 icon_lol icon_lol icon_lol
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naednek
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« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2008, 06:22:28 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 25, 2008, 03:35:18 PM

You guys just need to find a moderator for this forum who enjoys political/religious discourse and debate, specifically of the sort that invariably happens on a political forum. It's pretty clear that the current mods do not. I can't imagine the volume of reports is so much that one who is well versed in this forum would be overwhelmed.

No, we need certain users to be able to discuss political issues without getting personal.  It's not about Mods being overwhelmed or whether we like or dislike politics.

Maybe we should just stick to what was said when this forum was announced...

http://www.gamingtrend.com/forums/index.php/topic,24509.0.html
Quote
As a personal aside, most of you have your head screwed on straight and contribute to the board in a meaningful way except when P&R are concerned.  If you are busted for going over the line you will be banned from this board.   Do it twice and we seal that ban in cement.  Play nice people...you may "win" your argument by being an asshole, but in the end you are still an asshole.


None of us wants to ban anyone, that is why we have brought this up, asking people to stop what they are doing and start showing some respect towards each other, and take the personal attacks out of the discussions.
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Ironrod
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« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2008, 06:30:05 PM »

This board doesn't have an ignore function, does it? That would cut out a lot of stress...and those individuals who might otherwise court banishment would eventually get frustrated and go away if they found themselves largely ignored. (My phpBB User Hide script for Greasemonkey is powerless, but I sure did appreciate it in OO's R&P forum).
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cheeba
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« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2008, 06:42:51 PM »

Quote from: naednek on June 25, 2008, 06:22:28 PM

No, we need certain users to be able to discuss political issues without getting personal.
Well I would tell you that, realistically, it's not going to happen. Someone will always feel slighted, even if it's only their perception and not actual. Within 2 weeks it will be as if this thread never existed. But management of the forums falls on you guys, so deal with matters in whatever way you guys feel appropriate smile.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2008, 06:45:37 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on June 25, 2008, 06:30:05 PM

This board doesn't have an ignore function, does it? That would cut out a lot of stress...and those individuals who might otherwise court banishment would eventually get frustrated and go away if they found themselves largely ignored. (My phpBB User Hide script for Greasemonkey is powerless, but I sure did appreciate it in OO's R&P forum).

We did for a time.  I wasn't a mod then but it was relatively controversial and didn't last long. 
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2008, 11:59:43 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 25, 2008, 06:45:37 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on June 25, 2008, 06:30:05 PM

This board doesn't have an ignore function, does it? That would cut out a lot of stress...and those individuals who might otherwise court banishment would eventually get frustrated and go away if they found themselves largely ignored. (My phpBB User Hide script for Greasemonkey is powerless, but I sure did appreciate it in OO's R&P forum).

We did for a time.  I wasn't a mod then but it was relatively controversial and didn't last long. 


I confess:  I found the "Whooooooooooooooooo's ignoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" hilarious.

However, I have come to understand, and someday may even accept, that not all rules are promulgated solely for my enjoyment.
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« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2008, 02:01:48 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on June 25, 2008, 11:59:43 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 25, 2008, 06:45:37 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on June 25, 2008, 06:30:05 PM

This board doesn't have an ignore function, does it? That would cut out a lot of stress...and those individuals who might otherwise court banishment would eventually get frustrated and go away if they found themselves largely ignored. (My phpBB User Hide script for Greasemonkey is powerless, but I sure did appreciate it in OO's R&P forum).

We did for a time.  I wasn't a mod then but it was relatively controversial and didn't last long. 


I confess:  I found the "Whooooooooooooooooo's ignoring meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" hilarious.

However, I have come to understand, and someday may even accept, that not all rules are promulgated solely for my enjoyment.

The Ignore function is the democratic version of banning: Let The People decide. Either way, the offensive ones disappear. The democratic approach is necessarily messier than the authoritarian. But if banning will ultimately be the remedy here, I have a list for you.  ninja2
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« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2008, 02:54:55 AM »

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:59:25 AM

No offense, but I've seen far more troll-like, personal flaming behavior here in GT than I ever did in OO. Maybe it's us who should be giving you lessons.

Flatout wrong.  Not to derail, but there's legitimate reason why many of us left and one of them was the constant regurgitation of just-precisely-enough-worded-so-as-not-to-violate-the-coc-enforced-by-the-mods-who-are-my-buds-too-bad-their-not-yours-see-you-later-bye-bye- insults proffered by the favored sons of the site.  Some of the behavior at discussion here as being the domain of the R&P forum was endemic at OO. 

So perhaps you've already given the lessons.

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Geezer
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« Reply #53 on: June 26, 2008, 03:27:00 AM »

Quote from: ATB on June 26, 2008, 02:54:55 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:59:25 AM

No offense, but I've seen far more troll-like, personal flaming behavior here in GT than I ever did in OO. Maybe it's us who should be giving you lessons.

Flatout wrong.  Not to derail, but there's legitimate reason why many of us left and one of them was the constant regurgitation of just-precisely-enough-worded-so-as-not-to-violate-the-coc-enforced-by-the-mods-who-are-my-buds-too-bad-their-not-yours-see-you-later-bye-bye- insults proffered by the favored sons of the site.  Some of the behavior at discussion here as being the domain of the R&P forum was endemic at OO. 

So perhaps you've already given the lessons.


Both sites have/had their own particular brand of flaming.  But your contention about favored posters or unbalanced moderation is "flatout wrong."
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« Reply #54 on: June 26, 2008, 01:30:21 PM »

Everytime ATB speaks up about anything, people crack out the Jesus jokes. Hey, I do it, but he knows there's no barbs there. Look at the "this is fun" thread ... and that's not even in THIS sub-forum.

I commend Adam for not blowing his stack on that; I was concerned that the troll bait would be taken. As far as I'm concerned, we could all use a little "turn-the-other-cheek" attitude rather than inundating our forum mods with petty differences and pseudo-baiting.

I like the discussions that happen in here; I don't think people need to cite references to show their EVERY opinion is valid- unless they're making a claim that is either outlandish or requires some backing. That being said, people who provide links to huge amounts of information need to realize that unless you quote what you wanted to show (or at least provide a "hook") then your link might as well not have existed.

All people will, on occasion, be wrong. I admit that I'm wrong sometimes. (and I'm no fan of eating crow... I got used to the taste when arguing with KG though Tongue) Enjoy the other perspectives; we can all learn something.

Except Mitch... he's untrainable. (and that's not even a word! eek)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 01:32:41 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2008, 02:57:04 PM »

Could you guys just ignore the complaints?  People ignore stuff all the time, why should the staff of GT hold themselves to a higher standard and work harder?! 

 icon_biggrin icon_lol nod 
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« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2008, 03:00:57 PM »

They would then have to ignore my complaints about you deadzone, and that just wouldn't be right. slywink
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« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2008, 03:03:37 PM »

Quote from: ATB on June 26, 2008, 02:54:55 AM

Quote from: YellowKing on June 25, 2008, 02:59:25 AM

No offense, but I've seen far more troll-like, personal flaming behavior here in GT than I ever did in OO. Maybe it's us who should be giving you lessons.

Flatout wrong.  Not to derail, but there's legitimate reason why many of us left and one of them was the constant regurgitation of just-precisely-enough-worded-so-as-not-to-violate-the-coc-enforced-by-the-mods-who-are-my-buds-too-bad-their-not-yours-see-you-later-bye-bye- insults proffered by the favored sons of the site.  Some of the behavior at discussion here as being the domain of the R&P forum was endemic at OO. 

So perhaps you've already given the lessons.


Man that's a whole lot of dashes ATB! 

Makes me miss the old days when we had just one forum and some semblance of community within that one forum.  Now we have two seperate forums each with a semblance of community.  It's a lot to keep up with for lazy people like me.  smile   
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deadzone
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« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2008, 03:04:35 PM »

Quote from: Purge on June 26, 2008, 03:00:57 PM

They would then have to ignore my complaints about you deadzone, and that just wouldn't be right. slywink

Heh, that is true!  smile  I suppose it doesn't help that sometimes I mess with them and complain about myself....
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YellowKing
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« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2008, 03:11:01 PM »

Quote
Flatout wrong.  Not to derail, but there's legitimate reason why many of us left and one of them was the constant regurgitation of just-precisely-enough-worded-so-as-not-to-violate-the-coc-enforced-by-the-mods-who-are-my-buds-too-bad-their-not-yours-see-you-later-bye-bye- insults proffered by the favored sons of the site.  Some of the behavior at discussion here as being the domain of the R&P forum was endemic at OO.

So perhaps you've already given the lessons.

Ah, I must be thinking about OO *after* you guys left, when things got significantly better. What a crazy coincidence!
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hmm...


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« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2008, 03:14:18 PM »

YellowKing I think you might have missed this announcement.
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deadzone
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« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2008, 03:16:50 PM »

It's slightly ironic that the very behavior that lead to the creation of this thread is manifesting itself in this very thread. 
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« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2008, 03:22:19 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 26, 2008, 03:14:18 PM

YellowKing I think you might have missed this announcement.

Pug, while I wholeheartedly agree with you that the point (das Zweck) was missed. Problem is that everytime Adam says something, 2 or 3 people pounce on him. I can understand his initial inflammatory remarks in the OO is down thread; it was in no way allowed and he was asked to stop. The same thing needs to happen in reverse, it seems (and not just ATB; there's some consistant back-n-forth between a handful of people that is getting tiresome).

Grudges, old or new, do not justify personal attacks here on GT. Conflict can be interesting, but it still needs to remain civil. We all learned how to use our forks and knives, we don't double-dip in the sauce and we don't fart at the dinner table, we don't chew with our mouth open AND GODDAMN IT CEEKAY STOP TOUCHING ALL OF THE BUNS; PICK ONE AND TAKE IT!

I think, ultimately, that is the point that needs to be conveyed.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 03:24:39 PM by Purge » Logged

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hmm...


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« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2008, 03:26:36 PM »

How about this amendment to the CoC:
  • Personal attacks, hate speech and personal vendettas are simply not allowed on our boards, even if you do a super job of veiling your snipe sarcastically, you clever devil, you!
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« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2008, 03:28:18 PM »

I didn't say anything about Devil.
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« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2008, 05:41:13 PM »

Quote from: deadzone on June 26, 2008, 03:03:37 PM

Now we have two separate forums each with a semblance of community.  It's a lot to keep up with for lazy people like me.  smile   

Three.
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« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2008, 05:51:33 PM »

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YellowKing
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« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2008, 05:59:02 PM »

Quote
YellowKing I think you might have missed this announcement.

I wasn't singling out ATB - he said "many of us" and I was responding to the "many" part. Personally I've *never* had a problem with ATB. I was just pointing out that many of the trolls and troublemakers from OO moved to GT. That's why I thought his comments that I was "flat out wrong" were a bit absurd. It's also why I think you have a problem with the forum. Shuffling bad apples from one pile to another doesn't get rid of the bad apples.



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« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2008, 06:42:15 PM »

Here is the thing - if we go heavy, this whole thing will work itself out.  People with these sort of behavioral problems eventually whip themselves into a ban-stick-attracting hate that they can't help themselves.  Unfortunately it requires way too much shepherding to separate the personal attacks from the usual banter.  I'd love it for folks to just learn to agree to disagree, but for some people they have to argue at the top of their lungs until they pass out.  I'd rather people have some restraint than making me or my team restrain them.
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« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2008, 07:54:36 PM »

I think you send out a warning to the offenders that keep sending the reports, and if it continues from that point forward still without merit, you should consider a ban.  When it comes to religion and politics, you are almost never going to be able to hold a cool, calm and collected conversation without someone breaking into personal attacks.  And those same people will be the ones to take offense when someone fires back at them.

It's the truth of the internets.
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« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2008, 08:00:28 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on June 26, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I think you send out a warning to the offenders that keep sending the reports, and if it continues from that point forward still without merit, you should consider a ban.  When it comes to religion and politics, you are almost never going to be able to hold a cool, calm and collected conversation without someone breaking into personal attacks.  And those same people will be the ones to take offense when someone fires back at them.

It's the truth of the internets.

Not true.  I send reports here and there, but they're more directed at bringing things to mod's attention so they can monitor a potential situation. Diffusing things tends to be better than dealing with them afterward.
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« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2008, 08:05:39 PM »

Quote from: Austin on June 26, 2008, 08:00:28 PM

Not true.  I send reports here and there, but they're more directed at bringing things to mod's attention so they can monitor a potential situation. Diffusing things tends to be better than dealing with them afterward.

Wrong. Rather than pruning a tree, you cut it down everytime a branch grows in the wrong direction.
Look at how well it's working for Brazil. icon_twisted
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« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2008, 08:35:15 PM »

Or, maybe the mods should by and large ignore the complaints coming from people who post in this forum.  It's my belief that as a general rule the community is best left policing itself.  This is after all a political/religious topics forum.  By its nature, the topics are going to tend to spark some degree of controversy.  That's the point.  If someone is acting like an idiot, I don't see the harm in calling that person an idiot.

We don't need an ignore function.  Adults should be able to invoke the "sticks and stones" principal and ignore whomever they like.
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« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2008, 08:52:10 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 26, 2008, 08:35:15 PM


We don't need an ignore function.  Adults should be able to invoke the "sticks and stones" principal and ignore whomever they like.

Agreed.  However, this is the internet.  The ability to act like an adult is lost upon logon for some.  smile
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« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2008, 09:12:42 PM »

Im on another political forum with an ignore function and way too many posts are people talking about how they cant see the post of someone they hate.   It doesnt help anything.
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« Reply #75 on: June 27, 2008, 04:38:10 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 24, 2008, 09:45:56 PM

The most consistent violation is the portion of the CoC that states that you should show respect for others' opinions. 

That sounds like a problem with the CoC to me.  Maybe the CoC should be amended to exclude the P&R forum from this stipulation.  With regards to P&R if I think your opinion is crap, I'm going to call it crap.  If your opinion deserves no respect, then no respect is what it will get.  That is precisely the reason that P&R is broken out.

Example:
If we are discussing a shooter and your opinion is that the recoil modeling of the XY-19 BFG railgun is too light, then I can respect that opinion while completely disagreeing with it.  I can respect this opinion even if you rant and rave about how this one flaw will totally ruin the entire franchise.

State an opinion on a hot button topic like race, religion, sexual orientation, taxes, how to raise kids, etc.  If your opinion is completely out of phase with mine, and the topic has an emotional component, then I will not respect your opinion... period.  Asking people to act civil in place specifically created to house uncivil behavior is a bit ludicrous.

That's my opinion... respect it.  icon_biggrin
« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 04:40:53 PM by RLMullen » Logged
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« Reply #76 on: June 27, 2008, 05:56:01 PM »

Quote from: RLMullen on June 27, 2008, 04:38:10 PM

If your opinion is completely out of phase with mine, and the topic has an emotional component, then I will not respect your opinion... period.
Please don't take this as an insult, but geez that seems awfully immature. Why wouldn't you respect others' opinions if they disagree with you? I mean sure, sometimes people use moronic logic or lack of to get to their opinions, in which case you can say their logic is flawed or whatever, but there are many issues where there are simply different perspectives. For instance, I think Affirmative Action is an abomination and institutional racism, but I can understand and even respect people who think it's a needed and proper response to historical racism.

I guess when I was younger I was a lot more gung ho. I had my opinions, they were the right opinions, and anyone who thought otherwise should be defeated. Age has given me the wisdom to see otherwise.
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« Reply #77 on: June 27, 2008, 06:10:53 PM »

Quote from: RLMullen on June 27, 2008, 04:38:10 PM

That sounds like a problem with the CoC to me.  Maybe the CoC should be amended to exclude the P&R forum from this stipulation.  With regards to P&R if I think your opinion is crap, I'm going to call it crap.  If your opinion deserves no respect, then no respect is what it will get.  That is precisely the reason that P&R is broken out.

No, the reason that P&R was broken out was that some people wanted to talk about P&R and others wanted to avoid it completely(previously it was not allowed on this forum).  IMO, if you cannot show respect (or at least pretend to) for other's opinions then do not post.  Period. 
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« Reply #78 on: June 28, 2008, 03:03:27 AM »

Quote from: cheeba on June 27, 2008, 05:56:01 PM

Quote from: RLMullen on June 27, 2008, 04:38:10 PM

If your opinion is completely out of phase with mine, and the topic has an emotional component, then I will not respect your opinion... period.
Please don't take this as an insult, but geez that seems awfully immature. Why wouldn't you respect others' opinions if they disagree with you?

I don't take it as an insult, because you and generally everyone else is not thinking this through to the end.  Think about what it means to respect EVERYONE'S opinion.  That implies respecting EVERY opinion. 

What if that opinion is particularly vile?  What then?  What if a racist showed up and posted a racist opinion, and he didn't otherwise act like a moron?  What if someone posts a negative opinion about gays?  Come up with any hot button topic and take it to its most vile (to you) extreme, and imagine someone posting that opinion in a reasonable manner?  Are you going to respect something that you consider to be vile?

I'm directing these hypothetical questions at everyone.  I do find it interesting that you consider my stance immature because you are one of the more opinionated posters here, and there is nothing wrong with that.  You also tend to react in a way that makes it clear that you don't really respect the opinions of those who disagree with you, and with these topics I also see nothing wrong with that.
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RLMullen
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« Reply #79 on: June 28, 2008, 03:12:54 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on June 27, 2008, 06:10:53 PM

No, the reason that P&R was broken out was that some people wanted to talk about P&R and others wanted to avoid it completely(previously it was not allowed on this forum).  IMO, if you cannot show respect (or at least pretend to) for other's opinions then do not post.  Period. 

I probably won't post much more at all.  I've been lurking around here since this site was CG and still attached to GG, and I have an incredibly low post count.  I don't see myself becoming a raving troll anytime soon.

Read the post immediately above this one; my opinion is explained there.  I still find it ludicrous that folks are being asked to respect the opinions for topics which inherently cause conflict.  That's just my opinion.  I'll ask again... do you respect it?
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