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Author Topic: Does anybody really think these bailouts will work?...  (Read 5962 times)
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brettmcd
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« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2009, 04:30:20 AM »

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on February 04, 2009, 03:28:50 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on February 04, 2009, 01:43:55 AM

I am still trying to figure out what most of this list has anything at all to do with the proper role of federal government spending.   All seems like state issues to me.

And which states have funding right now?   If you want to programs, you need the tax money to come from somewhere.  46 states I believe are running a deficit.

And i's very easy to say I don't need that program, so it can go.  But someone else likely needs it.

You can't cut spending without cutting programs.   So If you want the same programs, and we are bringing in LESS tax revenue, then you need more revenue.  How many Elected officials do you expect have the nerve to say we that need higher taxes, state level, local, or federal?  The state in that case has one road, ask Uncle Sam for Federal dollars.

We citizens want everything, but want to pay for nothing.  And it won't work anymore.


I have zero problems with cutting the vast majority of what the feds currently waste money on.   To be completely honest our tax burden is completely screwed up in the us.   States should be collecting more then the feds do and doing the vast majority of what the federal government does at a state by state level.
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Hiccup
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« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2009, 02:59:43 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 03, 2009, 10:22:50 PM


$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).


Man, won't they be surprised when they finish designing it to see the polar ice cap melt...
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cheeba
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« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2009, 03:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Hiccup on February 04, 2009, 02:59:43 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on February 03, 2009, 10:22:50 PM


$88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).


Man, won't they be surprised when they finish designing it to see the polar ice cap melt...
The new icebreaker just pushes all the floating homeless polar bears away.
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Scuzz
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2009, 04:27:10 PM »

To me it just appears the list is made up of items that belong on regular budgets and not in an emergency bailout bill...false advertising.

California and many cities are talking about raising the sales tax rates. This is a state that is already losing business to neighboring states and last year actually lost people (state size increased due to birthrate and illegal aliens?) but existing citizen population dropped.

Governments need to realize that their funding is not infinite. Not every program deserves funding. Not every idea is worthy. Not every person can be saved.
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Brendan
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« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2009, 04:33:21 PM »

Unbelievable.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2009, 04:38:57 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 04, 2009, 04:30:20 AM

States should be collecting more then the feds do and doing the vast majority of what the federal government does at a state by state level.

We lost that war a long time ago.  1865, iirc.  We had the misfortune of being on the same side as the slavery people.  When your side loses the moral high ground, it doesn't matter what your financial argument was. 
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Blackadar
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« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2009, 05:11:59 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 04, 2009, 04:27:10 PM

Not every person can be saved.

I reject this - every person can be saved so long as they want to be saved.  The social cost of not trying to do so is too great.  To me, if someone believes otherwise, don't bother calling 911 when someone who couldn't be saved comes to your house and kills your family for food.  I guess we'll just chalk that up to collateral damage.

I'm getting ticked off at some of the changes proposed for this tax cut/stimulus package.  For example, the Republicans want to increase the tax CREDIT for buying a home from $7,500 for first-time only buyers to $15,000 for all buyers.  If you earned enough last year to have the ability to use a $15k tax credit last year, you don't need any help in buying a house.  It's just another way of trying to concentrate wealth by the GOP, who I'm firmly convinced won't be happy until the good ole' USA is a serfdom.  Of course, the idiot Dems will go along with this, because it's politically expendient to do so. 
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 05:20:06 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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Scuzz
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« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2009, 11:47:46 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 04, 2009, 05:11:59 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on February 04, 2009, 04:27:10 PM

Not every person can be saved.

I reject this - every person can be saved so long as they want to be saved.  The social cost of not trying to do so is too great.  To me, if someone believes otherwise, don't bother calling 911 when someone who couldn't be saved comes to your house and kills your family for food.  I guess we'll just chalk that up to collateral damage.

I'm getting ticked off at some of the changes proposed for this tax cut/stimulus package.  For example, the Republicans want to increase the tax CREDIT for buying a home from $7,500 for first-time only buyers to $15,000 for all buyers.  If you earned enough last year to have the ability to use a $15k tax credit last year, you don't need any help in buying a house.  It's just another way of trying to concentrate wealth by the GOP, who I'm firmly convinced won't be happy until the good ole' USA is a serfdom.  Of course, the idiot Dems will go along with this, because it's politically expendient to do so. 

there is a large part of the underbelly of every city that does not want to be saved, they want to be left alone. i will grant many/most are probably quite crazy, but short of locking them up all up "for their own good" their is not much that can be done.

i may be wrong but I think i heard the tax credit was for a first time home buyer...
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the Nightbreeze
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« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2009, 12:01:17 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on February 04, 2009, 04:30:20 AM

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on February 04, 2009, 03:28:50 AM

Quote from: brettmcd on February 04, 2009, 01:43:55 AM

I am still trying to figure out what most of this list has anything at all to do with the proper role of federal government spending.   All seems like state issues to me.

And which states have funding right now?   If you want to programs, you need the tax money to come from somewhere.  46 states I believe are running a deficit.

And i's very easy to say I don't need that program, so it can go.  But someone else likely needs it.

You can't cut spending without cutting programs.   So If you want the same programs, and we are bringing in LESS tax revenue, then you need more revenue.  How many Elected officials do you expect have the nerve to say we that need higher taxes, state level, local, or federal?  The state in that case has one road, ask Uncle Sam for Federal dollars.

We citizens want everything, but want to pay for nothing.  And it won't work anymore.


I have zero problems with cutting the vast majority of what the feds currently waste money on.   To be completely honest our tax burden is completely screwed up in the us.   States should be collecting more then the feds do and doing the vast majority of what the federal government does at a state by state level.

That is a great plan to concentrate populations in "have states" and initiate exoduses from "Have Not States". 

If your state won't fund the services you need, then you'll move to a state that does.

If you think urban congestion is bad now, wait until you have even greater populations.

In short, your ideals are short sighted, even if you think mine reach too far.
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Moliere
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« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2009, 02:59:42 AM »

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on February 05, 2009, 12:01:17 AM

That is a great plan to concentrate populations in "have states" and initiate exoduses from "Have Not States". 
Roll Eyes
States currently compete for populations now. Some factors they can't control like terrain and weather. Some factors they can control like sales tax, income tax, regulatory burden and social programs being offered. Each state can choose its own level of attractiveness for different groups. For example, a State might be more attractive for Christians versus Gamblers. I don't see anything wrong with specialists. That's why FL attracts retired people and NV attracts "sinners".

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on February 05, 2009, 12:01:17 AM

If your state won't fund the services you need, then you'll move to a state that does.
That's correct. Everyone who wants all the freebies can move to CA. The rich (I'm looking at you Hollywood) will continue to avoid high State taxes by declaring their primary residence is their NV mansion while the middle class continue to get ground down until they finally leave causing the State to go bankrupt. Arnold should be punished for his fiscal policies as Governor. Instead he has his hand out looking for a bailout from the Federal Government.

Quote from: the Nightbreeze on February 05, 2009, 12:01:17 AM

In short, your ideals are short sighted, even if you think mine reach too far.
My concern with your ideals is that they are unconstitutional.
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Scuzz
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« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2009, 04:24:04 PM »

There is a reason so many athletes live in Florida. No state income tax.

There is a reason the poor and unemployed come to California. The abundance of social services.

States already recruit.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2009, 04:40:03 PM »

So California has taken the Statue of Liberty to heart? 

Quote
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
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Blackadar
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« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2009, 03:29:23 PM »

Seems like a good time to bring this back up.

We had 2.8% GDP growth in the last quarter, mostly attributable to stimulus money, cash for clunkers and other government programs (http://www.smartmoney.com/investing/economy/third-quarter-gdp-growth-revised-lower/).  We're projected to have the same this quarter.  Business inventories have fallen to the point that they'll likely have to place new orders.  Early retail sales figures from the Christmas shopping season are encouraging, though by no means comprehensive.  The housing market showed signs of leveling off across the country, with strong growth posted in the southeastern region and lower overall inventory (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=amzSIrwi9.9k).  Lost jobs last month were only 11,000, compared to the 741,000 when Obama entered office.  The Dow Jones is comfortably over 10,000. 

Significant economic challenges remain.  The jobless rate remains over 10% and if measured by historical standards probably stands at 17% or so.  There's the potential of another housing bubble in 2010.  Real wages still haven't started increasing.  The budget remains a mess, with both GWB's and Obama's deficits topping $1T.

But with the above data, have we hit bottom?  If so, is there any question that Obama's stimulus package has had a positive effect on the economy?  If not, are we going into a double-dip recession and what economic indicators give you that impression?   
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papasmurff
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« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2009, 02:18:23 AM »

You forgot to mention that BofA is repaying the money they took as part of the stimulus....
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