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Author Topic: DC Sniper Executed = another death penalty thread  (Read 5335 times)
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Moliere
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« on: November 11, 2009, 06:06:49 AM »

John Allen Muhammad was executed tonight for the killing of 10 people back in 2002.

I have two reasons for being opposed to the death penalty:

1) I don't trust the government to not fuck up the justice system. Either corrupt cops, stupid juries, incompetent Medical Examiners, witness tampering, poor DNA testing protocols, and any number of things that can and have gone wrong during death penalty trials make me hesitate in letting the State pull that final trigger. Once you kill a person you can't take it back. How many people does the Innocence Project have to free before people realize that we shouldn't be using the Death Penalty?

2) Even if someone is obviously guilty we shouldn't have the government commit acts of murder. And yes, it is murder when you kill someone who poses no immediate threat to anyone else. Killing someone should only be done in self defense, not as an act of revenge. Life in prison without parole serves the purpose of segregating those that choose to not live by society's rules away from the rest of us. It's not about rehabilitation, regardless of how many children's books they write.
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pr0ner
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2009, 06:52:42 AM »

He deserved to die for what he did.

That is all.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2009, 07:23:04 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on November 11, 2009, 06:52:42 AM

He deserved to die for what he did.

That is all.

And who get to decide if anyone deserve to die or not? Obama's Death panels? smile
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« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2009, 07:27:55 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on November 11, 2009, 07:23:04 AM

Quote from: pr0ner on November 11, 2009, 06:52:42 AM

He deserved to die for what he did.

That is all.

And who get to decide if anyone deserve to die or not? Obama's Death panels? smile

Do you ever stop trolling?
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TiLT
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« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2009, 09:06:10 AM »

Quote from: pr0ner on November 11, 2009, 07:27:55 AM

Do you ever stop trolling?

I don't think he considers it trolling. He seems to think he's profound.

As to the thread itself, I strongly oppose the death penalty. It's not for nothing that almost no civilized countries allow it. Killing someone, no matter the severity of the crime, is nothing but an act of revenge, and justice should never ever be about revenge. Add to that the fact that innocent people are getting killed this way with alarming frequency, and it should be clear why the death penalty needs to be given the needle.
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cheeba
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« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2009, 02:25:12 PM »

I disagree with the death penalty, mostly for Moliere's first reason.

However, this...

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 09:06:10 AM

It's not for nothing that almost no civilized countries allow it.

...is just an absurd argument. Most of these "civilized" countries do allow censorship, often at a level approaching draconian. Most of these "civilized" countries are so wrapped up in the notion that they are civilized that they required the US to do nearly all the work in stopping the most violent conflict in Europe since World War II. Hell most of these "civilized" countries don't have air conditioning Tongue.

The US should end the death penalty because it's the right thing to do - and that has nothing to do with what "civilized" countries choose to do.
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Razgon
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« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2009, 02:26:26 PM »

USA! USA!
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TiLT
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« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2009, 02:33:16 PM »

Cheeba, I have no idea what countries you are talking about. China?

Try looking at Europe instead. Over here we mostly sit and laugh at the censorship in the US.
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Moliere
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« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2009, 02:35:27 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on November 11, 2009, 06:52:42 AM

He deserved to die for what he did.

That is all.

Maybe, but do you trust the government enough to carry out these revenge killings?
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« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2009, 02:40:03 PM »

I'm pro death penalty- I'm sure it comes as no surprise- but in recent years with all of the institutionalize corruption in the legal system, I don't see how it's even remotely possible that we can execute anyone with clear conscience. 

To a lesser degree, I wonder about all of the people who are in jail (I'm sure at least most are there for due cause) as a result of a crooked judge, a prosecutor trying to make a name for himself or evidence not being used appropriately.

That said, on the face of it all-JAM should have been executed.  And so should LBM.
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Moliere
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« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2009, 02:51:42 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on November 11, 2009, 02:40:03 PM

That said, on the face of it all-JAM should have been executed.  And so should LBM.

So you're in favor of the government conducting revenge killings?
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cheeba
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« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 03:03:32 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 02:33:16 PM

Try looking at Europe instead.

Your jingoism is showing.

Denmark and Finland (and potentially Norway).
Germany, of course.
UK

Quote
Over here we mostly sit and laugh at the censorship in the US.

Perhaps the infamous European white tower should look closer to its base?

However, this is not relevant to the death penalty discussion, so feel free to open a new thread if you want to look down your nose at the US further.
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VynlSol
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« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 03:05:04 PM »

Will somebody please engage Moliere in a debate about his "revenge killings" before he has an anuerism?
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cheeba
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« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 03:51:14 PM »

Yeah I wouldn't call it revenge killing. Would you call incarceration after a crime an act of revenge? I'd argue that it fits under our notion of justice, but after having spent an entire semester of 400 level philosophy on the concept of justice I really don't want to get into that, lol.
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Moliere
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« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2009, 04:12:48 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 11, 2009, 03:51:14 PM

Yeah I wouldn't call it revenge killing. Would you call incarceration after a crime an act of revenge?

No. I would call that segregating someone who chose not to abide by society's rules. There's a big difference between putting someone in jail and killing him as a form of punishment.
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pr0ner
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« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2009, 04:26:08 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on November 11, 2009, 02:35:27 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on November 11, 2009, 06:52:42 AM

He deserved to die for what he did.

That is all.

Maybe, but do you trust the government enough to carry out these revenge killings?

Yes.  Why do you think Virginia (my home state) insisted on trying him ASAP?

I also lived in the DC area when Muhammed was doing his thing.  The fucker deserved to die.  Lethal injection was too pleasant for him.
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Scuzz
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« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2009, 04:45:16 PM »

I have no problem with the death sentence in cases where there is no doubt whatsoever that the perp did it......

But it should be done in a timely fashion and without fanfare.

I wouldn't shed a tear if it was outlawed simply because of the money saved in prosecuting the case. Lock them all away in a dark pit someplace and just throw in food and water once a day.
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« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2009, 04:54:41 PM »

I am generally against the death penalty with an exception for particularly heinous crimes where there is no question of guilt.  Hunting people like deer would seem to fit under that exception.  But I struggle with it, because while I think someone like the sniper deserves to die, their death brings little benefit to anyone else.  Any solace derived from this person no longer existing is rather tiny compared to the damage already done.  On the other hand, if he had killed a member of my family, I'd want him to die for that.
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TiLT
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« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2009, 06:02:48 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on November 11, 2009, 03:03:32 PM

Your jingoism is showing.

Oh my, are we tossing insults already? Ladies and gentlemen, I bring your attention to the fact that cheeba started. Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all night!

About your Norwegian example: Since when did a single politician in the Norwegian government ever have the might to enforce something like that? The part of the story you forgot to mention was that the ISPs laughed at his letter, the general public ridiculed him, and the free press lambasted him. It's too bad we're so heavily censored over here. I think the evil government is tracking me as I type this. Perhaps I should mention that ISPs are required to delete all traceable info about my internet usage after no more than 2 weeks? No, that would just be low.

About your German example: Yes, Germany is a hotspot of censorship, and so is Australia. Everybody knows that. I apologize sincerely for not mentioning this in my previous post. I have learned my lesson and will pray for forgiveness tonight.

About your UK example: Now here's an interesting one. I consider the UK to be one of the strangest civilized countries I know about. The population there is extremely fond of censorship and vigilante justice. I have no idea why. +1 point to you, I guess.

So, I have looked at the base of my white tower and couldn't find anything. Not even litter, because that would be illegal around here in this dystopian, oppressive society I live in. Excuse me while I go report myself to the secret police.
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2009, 06:25:36 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 06:02:48 PM

Quote from: cheeba on November 11, 2009, 03:03:32 PM

Your jingoism is showing.

Oh my, are we tossing insults already? Ladies and gentlemen, I bring your attention to the fact that cheeba started. Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all night!

If you're insulted by that statement, I have to believe that you were looking for an insult.  One can be capable of performing actions of a certian type without being completely tarred with that brush and defined completely by it.
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2009, 06:59:58 PM »

They should have used a firing squad!
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cheeba
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2009, 07:02:08 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 06:02:48 PM

Oh my, are we tossing insults already? Ladies and gentlemen, I bring your attention to the fact that cheeba started. Thank you, thank you! I'll be here all night!

Mmk, being called jingoist is not an insult. I'm just saying you're being a bit too nationalist here. Since you state that you are sitting there, laughing at Americans and our censorship, I think that's a pretty safe bet.

Quote
About your Norwegian example: Since when did a single politician in the Norwegian government ever have the might to enforce something like that?

Please note the word, "potentially" that I used. The truth of the matter is a Norwayan government official threatened ISP's with censorship laws if they did not voluntarily censor the internet. That's not to say Norway is a draconian censor (like Germany), but it does go to prove that you've got just as many censorship problems as the US and you have no cause to laugh at us.

Quote
About your German example: Yes, Germany is a hotspot of censorship

I know. And they're in Europe, which is what I argued.

Quote
About your UK example: Now here's an interesting one. I consider the UK to be one of the strangest civilized countries I know about. The population there is extremely fond of censorship and vigilante justice. I have no idea why. +1 point to you, I guess.

So that'd be +2 so far. But you didn't mention that both Finland and Denmark have laws that force ISP's to censor their internet, like what the Norway guy proposed. So that's +4. We could certainly keep going, but you're obviously much more comfortable being judgemental about the US and not "civilized" Europe.
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TiLT
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2009, 08:42:22 PM »

All right, I'm out. You did read my post, but you didn't READ it. If you'd known anything about the subject, you'd know that Norway has only ONE single censorship law on the Internet. ONE! It lets the police block certain web sites that are used for child pornography, and even then they can't track or store any information on people who try to visit those sites. The only draconian rules in my country are the ones the police and lawmakers have to abide by (to their great frustration).

So we block child pornography. I don't consider that a big loss to my freedom. On the other hand, we show titties on prime-time television, we don't leave entertainment off the shelves because it's too "adult" (like an M-rated game), we can say just about anything we like and nobody will call anyone else unpatriotic, our religious organizations don't try to push science out of schools, nor do politicians. Our leadership doesn't have to be Christian to be elected (nobody cares). We have powerful organizations that do absolutely nothing but make sure our rights are secured and that censorship doesn't happen, and they have real, actual power to stomp down on transgressors and are effective at it. I believe many of these things are not quite as true for the US. Frankly I don't care, but I do care once an American pretends that you're living in one of the most free countries on Earth. Here's a tip: You don't.
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Brendan
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« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2009, 08:55:07 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 08:42:22 PM

The only draconian rules in my country are the ones the police and lawmakers have to abide by (to their great frustration).

Jeg elsker Norge, but it must be tough living in such a police state.
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cheeba
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« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2009, 08:57:29 PM »

Your own words, TiLT:

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 02:33:16 PM

Try looking at Europe instead. Over here we mostly sit and laugh at the censorship in the US.

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 06:02:48 PM

About your German example: Yes, Germany is a hotspot of censorship

The population [in the UK] is extremely fond of censorship

So I did what you said. I looked at Europe. Now I'm supposed to look at just Norway, which btw, is about half the population of New York City? I'm not going to get into some stupid "omg my country is more free than yours!" argument. Nor am I going to go on a judgemental tirade against your country. That's one of the great things about being an American. We don't really give a shit about your country. It'd be kinda nice if you held the same opinion about us.
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2009, 09:26:18 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 08:42:22 PM

I do care once an American pretends that you're living in one of the most free countries on Earth. Here's a tip: You don't.

I'm American, and it drives me nuts when anyone tries to claim we're the bastion of freedom in the world or somesuch. Maybe in the past we were, but not anymore. Ironically, the most modern nations that value true freedom are primarily dirty commie hippy socialist nations. icon_wink
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Razgon
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« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2009, 10:13:34 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on November 11, 2009, 08:55:07 PM

Quote from: TiLT on November 11, 2009, 08:42:22 PM

The only draconian rules in my country are the ones the police and lawmakers have to abide by (to their great frustration).

Jeg elsker Norge, but it must be tough living in such a police state.

hey, we are no 1!! Freest press in the world? Impressive.

On topic - I dont like death penalties, especially when seen in the light of people getting exonorated after being convicted. We should be sure before doing anything that drastic.

The interesting /sad? thing is, that in some cases I *would* feel strongly enough to be satisfied with the death penalty, and that of course is harm done to my loved ones. Put that's pure revenge. Shouldnt the government be above that, no matter what I feel or say?
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Moliere
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2009, 11:03:35 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 11, 2009, 10:13:34 PM

Shouldnt the government be above that, no matter what I feel or say?

Yes
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2009, 03:07:59 PM »

Quote from: VynlSol on November 11, 2009, 03:05:04 PM

Will somebody please engage Moliere in a debate about his "revenge killings" before he has an anuerism?


Nothing to debate, as he's completely correct.
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VynlSol
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2009, 03:43:41 PM »

Quote from: Geezer on November 12, 2009, 03:07:59 PM

Quote from: VynlSol on November 11, 2009, 03:05:04 PM

Will somebody please engage Moliere in a debate about his "revenge killings" before he has an anuerism?


Nothing to debate, as he's completely correct.

I'm afraid not. But you're more than welcome to think he is. I'm not sure that Moliere himself even thinks he is. What I do know is he cross-posted this exact thread, used intentionally divisive language and basically acted like a five-year-old clamoring for attention because he wants to get into it with someone about the death penalty. He's made it no secret that he enjoys "honing" his internet-messageboard debating skills, and as I recall from the thread where he discussed such things, he even revels in how much he "wtfPwns" n0obs on some other messageboard using said skills. Informed by those things, I see this thread as borderline trolling...albeit all gussied up, but not posted in the spirit of the free exchange of ideas to foster understanding, or at least nailing down positions. Posted so that he can see how hard he can pwn someone. Not so he can express ideas in a helpful, community-minded manner, or to entertain the same from others, but just to argue. An excuse to spew out malicious, hatefulness and snark.

That's why I'm not going to engage in any debate about this, with him, on this forum. It's not that there's nothing to debate, it's that to me, it's pointless and only results in bullshit.
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Razgon
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2009, 05:02:47 PM »

quite a lot of people crosspost their posts
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2009, 05:30:07 PM »

Eh, even if Moliere is doing this as some mental exercise, I often find myself doing close to the same thing - I play Devil's advocate all the time, and I enjoy hearing/seeing people defend such positions as it often brings to light aspects of the issue I hadn't fully considered in the past.  I would say that I'm normally pretty open about being in that "mode."

In this case, I also agre with Moliere to an extent.  I fully understand an individual's urge to kill in revenge.  In some cases, I even think it's the right thing to do.  We're all emotional creatures, and that kind of a response is quite normal and someone who felt would not need to be segregated from society or put to death, themselves, (if they acted upon it, depending on the circumstances jail time may be called for both as a punitive measure to deter such actions in the future and also as a protective measure to shield the rest of us from someone lacking normal levels of self control on the violence axis). 

The government, on the other hand, does not possess emotions - it's an institution, obviously.  Sure, it has people in it and those people will have emotional responses, but they are not personally connected to the victims or the crime (if they are, they're generally supposed to recuse themselves).  For our legal system to work, we need the impartiality and logic of our judges to prevail while the lawyers argue the merits of each side.  Judges aren't supposed to use their emotions to judge, so why should the punishments they pass out reflect emotional desires?  Putting someone to death serves no different purpose for the society as a whole than locking the criminal in a small cell for the rest of his life.  The only difference is for those who were extended victims of the murders (friends/family/what not). 

Mind you, the state of mind for the extended victims is no small thing - it carries real weight that should be addressed in some manner.  Also, by committing such a heinous act a criminal effectively agrees to exist outside the scope of our society's rules, regulations, and rights and we have the responsibility to protect others from that person's future actions and apply a penalty for whatever did happen.  However, when you weigh the benefits that extended victims would receive by the death penalty being called into effect vs. the irrevocable action of ending a person's life, I don't see it being a net gain. 

Perhaps at the core of that measurement is the variable of debate: how much each of us weigh a human life by default, without adding value for character and potential.  I think the life of even the lowliest scum of the earth holds an intrinsic value.  I understand that others don't share that opinion.  Yeah, I would cheer if it was announced that Bin Laden was killed.  But he's waging a war on our society and that calls into play additional benefits from such an action, as opposed to merely being a criminal.  Somewhere in that difference of definition is likely where my wiggle room currently exists.

personal sidenote: I lost someone I cared for to a murder and I had mixed feelings about this topic then, and to a point I still do.  However, the person I lost is not coming back no matter how many people the government puts, and the person coming back is the only action that could make me whole again.  The small satisfaction of a revenge-by-proxy death penalty really doesn't add up to much except for being able to provide a little closure.  That said, it was a friend and not a family member so my anecdote probably applies less than it normally would.
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« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2009, 07:14:19 PM »

Quote from: VynlSol on November 12, 2009, 03:43:41 PM

Quote from: Geezer on November 12, 2009, 03:07:59 PM

Quote from: VynlSol on November 11, 2009, 03:05:04 PM

Will somebody please engage Moliere in a debate about his "revenge killings" before he has an anuerism?


Nothing to debate, as he's completely correct.

I'm afraid not. But you're more than welcome to think he is. I'm not sure that Moliere himself even thinks he is. What I do know is he cross-posted this exact thread, used intentionally divisive language and basically acted like a five-year-old clamoring for attention because he wants to get into it with someone about the death penalty. He's made it no secret that he enjoys "honing" his internet-messageboard debating skills, and as I recall from the thread where he discussed such things, he even revels in how much he "wtfPwns" n0obs on some other messageboard using said skills. Informed by those things, I see this thread as borderline trolling...albeit all gussied up, but not posted in the spirit of the free exchange of ideas to foster understanding, or at least nailing down positions. Posted so that he can see how hard he can pwn someone. Not so he can express ideas in a helpful, community-minded manner, or to entertain the same from others, but just to argue. An excuse to spew out malicious, hatefulness and snark.

That's why I'm not going to engage in any debate about this, with him, on this forum. It's not that there's nothing to debate, it's that to me, it's pointless and only results in bullshit.

Uh.. ok. 
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2009, 07:22:58 PM »

I don't happen to agree with Moliere very often (I do on his death penalty stance) but I've never known him to behave like a troll.

-Autistic Angel
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Moliere
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2009, 07:35:00 PM »

Quote from: VynlSol on November 12, 2009, 03:43:41 PM

I'm afraid not. But you're more than welcome to think he is. I'm not sure that Moliere himself even thinks he is. What I do know is he cross-posted this exact thread, used intentionally divisive language and basically acted like a five-year-old clamoring for attention because he wants to get into it with someone about the death penalty. He's made it no secret that he enjoys "honing" his internet-messageboard debating skills, and as I recall from the thread where he discussed such things, he even revels in how much he "wtfPwns" n0obs on some other messageboard using said skills. Informed by those things, I see this thread as borderline trolling...albeit all gussied up, but not posted in the spirit of the free exchange of ideas to foster understanding, or at least nailing down positions. Posted so that he can see how hard he can pwn someone. Not so he can express ideas in a helpful, community-minded manner, or to entertain the same from others, but just to argue. An excuse to spew out malicious, hatefulness and snark.

That's why I'm not going to engage in any debate about this, with him, on this forum. It's not that there's nothing to debate, it's that to me, it's pointless and only results in bullshit.

Did we have some kind of falling out in the past because I don't remember any interactions with you let alone one that would produce this kind of response to my original post? This was cross posted because although I prefer GT, the R&P section here is usually dead so I posted at OO to try and generate a conversation on the topic. Surprisingly both threads are about equal in responses with varying themes and side conversations.

I don't recall ever posting something I didn't believe in unless it was meant as obvious sarcasm. I am way too busy in my personal life to spend effort on message boards trolling. I still don't see my "divisive", "malicious, hatefulness and snark" language in the original post. Again this seems strange to me since I was merely stating my view on a topical issue given the recent high profile execution. People on OO and GT have chosen to agree or disagree for various reasons. When appropriate I have responded.

As for honing my skills and pwning noobs, you really should quote me in context. The only time I've referred to doing that is when I talked about the online college courses I have taken. One of the things I like about GT and OO is that generally I can't do that on these forums. There are too many people as smart or smarter than me around. Just look at my exchange on the death penalty with Grundbegriff. I have to wikipedia latin phrases just to follow his posts! I would never dream of winning a debate against Mr. Fed, a tie is the best I could hope for. I might not agree with Brendan or Blackadar very often, but I respect their ability to argue a point on the Forums. Those are just a couple of examples from each forum. Which brings me to you, VynlSol. Your name looks vaguely familiar, but I can't recall anything about you from past posts or any interactions we have had that would turn you so violent to what I thought was a fairly innocuous post to initiate a death penalty discussion.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2009, 08:04:45 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on November 12, 2009, 07:35:00 PM

I would never dream of winning a debate against Mr. Fed, a tie is the best I could hope for.


The Spanish Inquisition couldn't win a debate against Mr. Fed.

-Autistic Angel

EDIT: Boo...missed a word  icon_cry
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 08:31:11 PM by Autistic Angel » Logged
Moliere
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2009, 08:16:10 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 12, 2009, 08:04:45 PM

Quote from: Moliere on November 12, 2009, 07:35:00 PM

I would never dream of winning a debate against Mr. Fed, a tie is the best I could hope for.


The Spanish Inquisition win a debate against Mr. Fed.

-Autisticn Angel

That's only because nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition, not even Mr. Fed.
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Eel Snave
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« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2009, 01:37:20 AM »

I'm torn on this.  On the one hand, if someone is a murderer and it's been clearly proven, what right do they have to keep what they took from others?  Also, why should I have to pay his housing and food for the rest of his natural life?  On the other hand, who has the right to choose life or death?  That's not really in our hands, and there are innocent people who have been executed.  It's a tough call, and one for others to debate who are much more philosophical than I (or have completely bitching beards like Moliere).
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #38 on: November 13, 2009, 02:01:57 AM »

Quote from: Eel Snave on November 13, 2009, 01:37:20 AM

Also, why should I have to pay his housing and food for the rest of his natural life?.

What if the death penalty is more expensive than paying for his housing and food for the rest of his natural life? Now I think if US want to have death penalty, then it is probably better to learn from China. They can do it much cheaper.
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Blackjack
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« Reply #39 on: November 13, 2009, 02:11:43 AM »

I work maybe 150 yards or so from one of the sniper-victim locations in Virginia (I didn't work there at the time of the incident). I think about her every time I go to the shopping center where she was shot. There's nothing there -- no memorial stone, no plaque, no nothing to note that some woman just doing a little shopping got assassinated for no discernible reason from across the street.

Dean Myers (whose killing at a Manassas gas station was the case technically prosecuted with the death penalty in mind) was a longtime friend of the president of a leadership group board I was on back in 2002. That you could survive combat wounds and years of combat service in Vietnam and get killed like that just gassing up your car -- there was just no sense that the universe made any sense at all.

Many months after they caught them, the Washington Post did this chilling story about how Malvo (the younger one who can't get the death penalty here because he was 17 at the time of the murders) went into a Chevy Chase Bank in a mall in Loudoun County (county I worked at the time) and tried to set up a bank account. Presumably for the extortion money they were trying to arrange. Apparently all sorts of things didn't sit right with the bank employees, so they declined to let him open an account (it is a shame they didn't have any clue who he really was at the time).

I've read a lot of interesting columns and articles this week about it locally. Relatives who wanted to attend the execution and make sure he was done, once and for all. Others who wanted no part of watching it and weren't sure the execution would bring them any solace or relief. Afterwards, it was pretty clear the relatives didn't know what to feel or how to feel.

To me the thing that maybe makes the execution seem like the right thing to do is the idea (according to investigators, and there's probably plenty who see otherwise) that Malvo became Muhammad's "disciple." So the question might be whether you wanted Muhammad in prison for decades, possibly trying to inspire other people to follow his lead. Maybe he'd be corresponding with young, impressionable people on the outside who wanted to follow in his footsteps. An awful thought.

I don't want that. I don't ever want to again be sneaking around when I gas up my car, creeping around mall parking lots scared for my life. The night that woman I mentioned was killed in a shopping center parking lot, I was over at a mall buying a computer game (of all things!) and literally dashing to my car in a nearly empty parking garage (everyone was scared in October 2002). I tried to take the highway home, but I saw flashing lights, and heard sooo many police sirens, so I took side roads back home and found out about the latest shooting on TV that night.

You could argue his death might turn him into a martyr, but I prefer to think he will just be forgotten and be left a brief note in a criminal history textbook. I think his victims deserve to be remembered, and I tried to be sure I read through the coverage this week to remember them. Him? Malvo? Their memories can rot, for all I care.

OK that's your brief glimpse into Blackjack the person, and not Blackjack the goofball gamer.  icon_neutral
« Last Edit: November 13, 2009, 02:14:49 AM by Blackjack » Logged

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