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Author Topic: CIA Director Petraeus resigns  (Read 974 times)
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CeeKay
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« on: November 10, 2012, 07:41:41 AM »

well, at least it's still Obama's first term  icon_twisted

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CIA Director David Petraeus resigned Friday, citing an extramarital affair and "extremely poor judgment."

As first reported by NBC News, Petraeus disclosed the affair in a letter released to the CIA work force on Friday afternoon, writing: "Such behavior is unacceptable, both as a husband and as the leader of an organization such as ours."

Petraeus told President Barack Obama of his affair and offered his resignation during a meeting Thursday, a senior official told NBC News.

In a statement, Obama said he accepted Petraeusís resignation on Friday.

"By any measure, through his lifetime of service, David Petraeus has made our country safer and stronger," Obama said of the four-star general, who led American forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Petraeus' biographer, Paula Broadwell, is under FBI investigation for improperly trying to access his email and possibly gaining access to classified information, law enforcement officials told NBC News on Friday. She is the author of Petraeus' biography, "All In." Broadwell had extensive access to Petraeus in Afghanistan and has given numerous television interviews speaking about him.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/09/15054517-cia-director-david-petraeus-resigns-cites-extramarital-affair?lite
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« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2012, 10:49:20 AM »

I simply cannot even begin to fathom what this guy's personal sex life has to do with his job. Why should it matter in the slightest? If a guy in the upper echelons of Norway's elite was unfaithful with his wife, the media might mention it, but apart from that it'd be business as usual.
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« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2012, 11:39:13 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 10:49:20 AM

I simply cannot even begin to fathom what this guy's personal sex life has to do with his job. Why should it matter in the slightest? If a guy in the upper echelons of Norway's elite was unfaithful with his wife, the media might mention it, but apart from that it'd be business as usual.

One word: "honeypot"
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« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2012, 11:40:34 AM »

Quote from: raydude on November 10, 2012, 11:39:13 AM

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 10:49:20 AM

I simply cannot even begin to fathom what this guy's personal sex life has to do with his job. Why should it matter in the slightest? If a guy in the upper echelons of Norway's elite was unfaithful with his wife, the media might mention it, but apart from that it'd be business as usual.

One word: "honeypot"

That doesn't explain squat. She wasn't a honeypot, unless you know something I don't.
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« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2012, 11:58:24 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 11:40:34 AM

Quote from: raydude on November 10, 2012, 11:39:13 AM

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 10:49:20 AM

I simply cannot even begin to fathom what this guy's personal sex life has to do with his job. Why should it matter in the slightest? If a guy in the upper echelons of Norway's elite was unfaithful with his wife, the media might mention it, but apart from that it'd be business as usual.

One word: "honeypot"

That doesn't explain squat. She wasn't a honeypot, unless you know something I don't.

Dude, imagine you're the director of the CIA. Every extramarital affair better be suspicious of turning into a honeypot, otherwise you're useless in terms of keeping our national security.

*modified to remove an adjective that didn't need to be there. My apologies. It was 6:40 and I didnt' have my morning coffee yet smile
« Last Edit: November 10, 2012, 12:25:22 PM by raydude » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2012, 12:27:10 PM »

By that logic the director of the CIA shouldn't even be making friends, because *gasp*, they may be spies or may be trying to dig up dirt from his personal life by getting close to him. Nobody was trying to entrap this guy. He wasn't sharing secrets as far as I've heard. He wasn't being blackmailed, and there's not a single bit of evidence suggesting he would succumb to it if anyone tried. All he did was fuck a woman he wasn't married to. This is Victorian logic at its worst, creating a problem where one doesn't exist. We don't fire people because they drink alcohol in their private life, even though being intoxicated could put them in exploitable situations and reduce their judgment. We don't fire people because they embarrass themselves in private, just in case someone decides to blackmail them over it later. We don't fire people because they're gullible or can be manipulated, as long as this hasn't caused a legal problem in the past. Why should we fire them because they could potentially be blackmailed by their lover? What makes this different from his wife? She probably knows his dirty little secrets, and if they suddenly start fighting she could threaten him with what she knows. So why aren't we firing people who get married, or worse, separated?

If I'm sounding pissed off, it's because I am. It shouldn't be anyone's business who a guy decides to stick his dick in, as long as he doesn't break any laws while doing so.
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2012, 12:33:25 PM »

Normally I would agree with you 100 percent.  But let's wait and see how this story develops.  There were news articles about his (rather attractive) biographer accessing his emails (i.e. government emails) last night on MSNBC.  

I think there's more to the story than any of us know right now, that's all I'm saying.
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2012, 01:21:52 PM »

If his lover was trying to illegally access his classified email then I would say that is a problem. Awesome book title though. I wonder when she came up with that one.
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2012, 01:28:16 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on November 10, 2012, 01:21:52 PM

If his lover was trying to illegally access his classified email then I would say that is a problem. Awesome book title though. I wonder when she came up with that one.

Heh. I lauged at the title too. My first reaction is to wonder if she's going to do a biography on Favre called "Balls Deep".
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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM »

It shows a tremendous lack of judgement for someone in his position.  And it doesn't have to be the person who he is having the affair with who will blackmail him, someone else could find out about it and try to use it in that way.   

But at least he had the decency to resign for his mistake, unlike a certain former president.
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2012, 04:55:52 PM »

You're STILL pissed at Bush???  Let it go, man.
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2012, 05:25:43 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM

It shows a tremendous lack of judgement for someone in his position.  And it doesn't have to be the person who he is having the affair with who will blackmail him, someone else could find out about it and try to use it in that way. 

Nobody tried to blackmail him! He never buckled under blackmail, and never compromised national security or secrets about his job (from what we know about the case so far, which is what we're discussing). Face it, you don't want him gone because of a hypothetical situation that hasn't even occurred. You want him gone because his actions go against your sexual morality.
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2012, 05:28:52 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 05:25:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM

It shows a tremendous lack of judgement for someone in his position.  And it doesn't have to be the person who he is having the affair with who will blackmail him, someone else could find out about it and try to use it in that way. 

Nobody tried to blackmail him! He never buckled under blackmail, and never compromised national security or secrets about his job (from what we know about the case so far, which is what we're discussing). Face it, you don't want him gone because of a hypothetical situation that hasn't even occurred. You want him gone because his actions go against your sexual morality.

Huh?    Just because something didn't happen doesn't make it a good idea to put oneself in that position.   People with high security clearances, and it doesn't get much higher then the CIA director, need to have better judgement then to do things like that.
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2012, 06:24:13 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 05:28:52 PM

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 05:25:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM

It shows a tremendous lack of judgement for someone in his position.  And it doesn't have to be the person who he is having the affair with who will blackmail him, someone else could find out about it and try to use it in that way. 

Nobody tried to blackmail him! He never buckled under blackmail, and never compromised national security or secrets about his job (from what we know about the case so far, which is what we're discussing). Face it, you don't want him gone because of a hypothetical situation that hasn't even occurred. You want him gone because his actions go against your sexual morality.

Huh?    Just because something didn't happen doesn't make it a good idea to put oneself in that position.   People with high security clearances, and it doesn't get much higher then the CIA director, need to have better judgement then to do things like that.

I agree. Ordinarily an extramarital affair should only be the concern of the participants. But this isn't ordinary. He did the right thing by falling on his sword.
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM »

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2012, 06:36:11 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 05:25:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM

It shows a tremendous lack of judgement for someone in his position.  And it doesn't have to be the person who he is having the affair with who will blackmail him, someone else could find out about it and try to use it in that way. 

Nobody tried to blackmail him! He never buckled under blackmail, and never compromised national security or secrets about his job (from what we know about the case so far, which is what we're discussing). Face it, you don't want him gone because of a hypothetical situation that hasn't even occurred. You want him gone because his actions go against your sexual morality.

I don't know what kind of news you are reading, but here's the article I'm focusing on. Now, since timelines seem to be all the rage these days, lets build a timeline:

Wednesday: White House learns Petraeus had a potentially serious problem.
Thursday: Petraeus telephoned Thomas E. Donilon, the national security adviser, early Thursday and asked to meet with Obama.
Friday: After sleeping on it, President Obama again asks Petraeus if he wants to resign. Patraeus says yes, Obama accepts.

I don't see anyone wanting him gone.  One day after the White House learning about it is not enough time to put pressure on a man who's been shot at in the chest and who shattered his pelvis while skydiving. Frankly, I don't like your insinuations that Patraeus is a victim who was forced out against his will. That implies that we can't trust his own words, both in his reasons for resignation, nor in his letter to the CIA.

I prefer to believe he was a man of conviction, who knew what he did was wrong, and figured the only saving grace was to resign. To think otherwise lessens the man.
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2012, 06:44:14 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel

Clueless as usual there AA, good thing to know nothing ever changes with you.
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 06:58:28 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 06:44:14 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel

Clueless as usual there AA, good thing to know nothing ever changes with you.

Would it be too much to ask for you to debate something without starting an insulting contest?
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« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 08:15:47 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned,

 icon_lol
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« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2012, 11:32:43 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 06:58:28 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 06:44:14 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel

Clueless as usual there AA, good thing to know nothing ever changes with you.

Would it be too much to ask for you to debate something without starting an insulting contest?

Would it be too much to ask that you and AA not make up things I never said?    Since I know it is too much to ask of you I will continue to post exactly as I do.
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« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2012, 01:03:18 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 11:32:43 PM

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 06:58:28 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 06:44:14 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel

Clueless as usual there AA, good thing to know nothing ever changes with you.


Would it be too much to ask for you to debate something without starting an insulting contest?


Would it be too much to ask that you and AA not make up things I never said?    Since I know it is too much to ask of you I will continue to post exactly as I do.


Oh, sorry brettmcd.  When you said....

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 04:30:48 PM

But at least he had the decency to resign for his mistake, unlike a certain former president.


...I naturally assumed you meant the former president whose mistakes included

- going to war over fictional WMDs,

- pulling urgently needed military resources out of Afghanistan,

- losing Osama bin Laden in Tora Bora

- transforming Walter Reed Medical Center into a malignant cesspit

- declaring Mission Accomplished -- an end to major combat operations in Iraq -- eight years before the end of major combat operations in Iraq

- appointing an equestrian judge with no disaster relief training to be the head of FEMA

- nominating Harriet Myers to be a Supreme Court justice

- remaining on vacation for three days while New Orleans drowned

- vastly and intentionally under-reporting the projected costs for Medicare Part-D

- waiting around to hear the end of My Pet Goat after being informed the country was under attack

- enforcing abstinence-only education in schools, reversing a decade of diminishing teen pregnancy and abortion rates

- awarding a new federal contract for military body armor to Sioux Manufacturing after it was discovered the company was knowingly shipping faulty kevlar to save money

- pitching the wild-eyed stories of a thoroughly discredited CIA informant called "Curveball" to the international community as though they were facts

- implementing deregulatory supply-side economic policies that triggered a global economic recession


I guess I jumped to conclusions.  Please, why don't you tell us all which former president you think made the *really* serious mistake and should have had the decency to resign?

-Autistic Angel
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2012, 03:13:48 AM »

Guys, come on. If you want to troll Brett go do it over in the fat president thread. That's much more fun.
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2012, 02:56:20 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 11:32:43 PM

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 06:58:28 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 10, 2012, 06:44:14 PM

Quote from: Autistic Angel on November 10, 2012, 06:35:00 PM

I don't know.  While I agree with brettmcd that George W. Bush should have resigned, it's a strange comparison at a point when nothing we know of this Patraeus affair comes close to that level of chicanery.

The facts so far make me inclined to agree with TiLT.  This man's extra-marital affair seems incidental to the performance of his job.

Unless, of course, this whole investigation was kicked off in response to a security breach or blackmail scheme we haven't heard of yet.  Then this would be a very big deal.

-Autistic Angel

Clueless as usual there AA, good thing to know nothing ever changes with you.

Would it be too much to ask for you to debate something without starting an insulting contest?

Would it be too much to ask that you and AA not make up things I never said?    Since I know it is too much to ask of you I will continue to post exactly as I do.

They didn't make a personal attack against you. You made a personal attack against them. If you're going to take the high road, make sure you deserve to do so.
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2012, 09:18:56 PM »

Here we go again. Guy says something the GT group-think doesn't agree with right off the bat, so they charge in with nonsense and kill the discussion instead of actually trying to engage.

It's a far more common pattern here than it used to be. But it lets all the sheep baaa away in mutual solidarity.

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« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2012, 09:56:26 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 12, 2012, 09:18:56 PM

Here we go again. Guy says something the GT group-think doesn't agree with right off the bat, so they charge in with nonsense and kill the discussion instead of actually trying to engage.

It's a far more common pattern here than it used to be. But it lets all the sheep baaa away in mutual solidarity.



I agree.  Kill whitey!

wait... is this the right thread? paranoid

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« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2012, 10:04:48 PM »

Quote from: ATB on November 12, 2012, 09:18:56 PM

Here we go again. Guy says something the GT group-think doesn't agree with right off the bat, so they charge in with nonsense and kill the discussion instead of actually trying to engage.

It's a far more common pattern here than it used to be. But it lets all the sheep baaa away in mutual solidarity.

Since personal attacks are against the CoC, nobody should be surprised when the attacker is called out for it. If you find following the CoC to be sheep-like behavior, I'm sure the mods would find your opinion fascinating. Why not take it up with them?
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 11:06:06 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 12, 2012, 10:04:48 PM

Quote from: ATB on November 12, 2012, 09:18:56 PM

Here we go again. Guy says something the GT group-think doesn't agree with right off the bat, so they charge in with nonsense and kill the discussion instead of actually trying to engage.

It's a far more common pattern here than it used to be. But it lets all the sheep baaa away in mutual solidarity.

Since personal attacks are against the CoC, nobody should be surprised when the attacker is called out for it. If you find following the CoC to be sheep-like behavior, I'm sure the mods would find your opinion fascinating. Why not take it up with them?

Trolling is mentioned too. As is baiting. Perhaps you  should report the behavior that elicited the response?
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« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2012, 01:09:44 AM »

So, is Patraeus a cheater, or just someone who engaged in cheating behavior?  icon_wink
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« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2012, 03:41:39 PM »

Honestly, they should just play the theme from a Looney Tunes cartoon in the background now whenever new info is released.
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« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2012, 04:06:08 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on November 10, 2012, 10:49:20 AM

I simply cannot even begin to fathom what this guy's personal sex life has to do with his job. Why should it matter in the slightest? If a guy in the upper echelons of Norway's elite was unfaithful with his wife, the media might mention it, but apart from that it'd be business as usual.

When I was there, having an affair was a reason for dismissal (covert) and at the very least cause for them looking very hard at you and what you're exposed to (non-covert).  Even a bad credit score was cause for concern.

Even if the rules have changed since then, the Director having an affair sets a very poor tone for the entire organization.  You might be able to have an affair heading up the Department of Education and easily get away with it.  As the Director of the CIA?  No way.
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« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2012, 05:28:03 PM »

When I was in the Canadian Military things of this nature were taught and debated fairly often. Mainly because we were in West Germany during the height of the Cold War. But sexual indiscretions were always treated with kid gloves because of the nature of the beast. Of course the higher the rank the more of a problem. Things like being gay in the closet and having a relationship with a German national could become a very sensitive matter for blackmail.
In this case I can absolutely see why there is a concern. What love struck, infatuated men tell their paramour In the heat of the moment could turn into a very messy situation.

And as for my opinion, I believe in a high standard of morality for people with as much power as this General had. Yes, he should be held to a higher level of conduct due his powerful position. I know moral absolutes are going the way of the Dodo, but it still doesn't make it right. Just ask the local folk in Rome during Caligula's reign.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 05:29:43 PM by Arclight » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2012, 06:15:51 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on November 13, 2012, 03:41:39 PM


Yeah, man: this thing has gotten *weird!*

Who is this Jill Kelley that she has a high profile biographer, an FBI investigator, the head of the CIA, and the general running the war in Afghanistan flushing their careers away just for the chance to be lewd towards her?

-Autistic Angel
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hepcat
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« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2012, 06:28:48 PM »

Well, supposedly Kelley's only linked by evidence to Allen and the FBI Agent (heretofore to be known as "Agent Horny") investigating her claims that Broadwell was harassing her.

HOWEVER, Broadwell THOUGHT Kelley was trying to book herself a ride on the old Pat-train and went after her in a series of threatening emails in which she was like, "Bitch...whatever...that's MY man and I'll thank you to keep your dirty old baby maker away from him!"

So Kelley went to Agent Horny of the FBI (Female Body Inspectors) and said, "Hey, my dirty old baby maker has been besmirched.  Could you take off your shirt and send me a photo of you making those pecs dance to Footloose by Kenny Loggins?"  To which Agent Horny replied, "You kjnow there's a remake of Footloose.  Why can't I pec prance with a more modern version?"

But Kelley ain't havin' none of that and said, "Nuh huh, don't make me bring General Allen of the United States Sex Force into this!"

But alas, all was for naught and eventually Patty and Allen was brought low not by their love of monogrammed dog dishes and leather collars on a saturday night, but by a couple of dames with champion level walking sticks and the sensibilities of a Housewives of the Appalachians cast member.

« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 06:34:14 PM by hepcat » Logged

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Roguetad
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« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2012, 06:34:09 PM »

A compromised CIA director is a bad thing...as is a compromised theater commander during an active war.  Knowledge of infidelity is blackmail leverage 101 for other nations and their foreign intelligence, particularly for men who suscribe to the concepts of honor and family.  It has little to do with the infidility itself and more to do with what they would do to keep it a secret.  Both Generals Petraeus and Allen made themselves vulnerable the second they started fooling around.  Yes, they're human, but in those roles they have to be a little smarter about what they do.

What if Jill Kelly were actually working for a foreign intelligence while she's hosting parties inviting the top leadership from US Central Command?  I hope that's not true.  It certainly seems weird at best given that she has no connections to those units or that command.                
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2012, 06:55:24 PM »

Her birth name isn't Jill.  And she was born in Lebanon.
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hepcat
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« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2012, 07:23:16 PM »

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hepcat
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« Reply #36 on: November 13, 2012, 07:24:54 PM »

Okay, sorry for the double post...but this made me laugh out loud just now.

screen capture from the unfortunate news broadcast that used the hoax book cover:



 icon_lol
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 07:26:27 PM by hepcat » Logged

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