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Author Topic: California Plan: Make Money by Legalizing Marijuana  (Read 6640 times)
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Larraque
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« on: February 24, 2009, 05:13:55 PM »

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/23/state/n133531S47.DTL&tsp=1

Quote
A  state legislator is reviving the debate about legalizing marijuana as a way of raising money for cash-strapped state and local governments.

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, introduced a bill Monday that if approved by the California Legislature would put pot on the same legal footing as alcohol. Adults over the age of 21 would be allowed to buy it, and driving under the influence of marijuana would be prohibited.

Under Ammiano's proposal, which has been endorsed by some law enforcement officials, pot would be taxed at a rate of $50 per ounce and bring an estimated $1 billion into state coffers.

It's actually a brilliant plan to stimulate the economy, in my opinion. By legalizing Marijuana, you create jobs (pot farmers; marijuana sellers; Marijuana Users Anonymous counsellors) - by opening up a new line of industry, which is an effective way to end the depression - and by taxing it, which I highly doubt any users would be against -- in exchange for the right to smoke it without persecution, you get to sit in your back yard, and pass the pipe around, without worrying about the cops busting your peaceful quiet party, the amount of money to be brought in to help the state is fantastic.
 
I approve.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 05:27:49 PM by DragonFyre » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 05:23:27 PM »

 thumbsup

I would never smoke the stuff, but I can see the massive benefits of legalizing it, so long as appropriate punishment is put in place for people who use it in public or drive under the influence.
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2009, 05:34:10 PM »

The only problem I see with it is they get an uproar from other states who will have to deal with it crossing their state lines or something. They'll have to make sure all the holes are covered (can't mail it out of state, etc.)
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« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2009, 06:20:34 PM »

What do you do with all the people who are in jail for weed now? Grandfather them in? Or let them go?
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2009, 06:31:43 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on February 24, 2009, 06:20:34 PM

What do you do with all the people who are in jail for weed now? Grandfather them in? Or let them go?

immediate pardon
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2009, 06:39:55 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on February 24, 2009, 06:20:34 PM

What do you do with all the people who are in jail for weed now? Grandfather them in? Or let them go?

If you are in jail for breaking the law, why should you get out just because the law changes? You still broke a law, and breaking a law means you should be punished.
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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2009, 07:40:00 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on February 24, 2009, 05:13:55 PM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/02/23/state/n133531S47.DTL&tsp=1

Quote
A  state legislator is reviving the debate about legalizing marijuana as a way of raising money for cash-strapped state and local governments.

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, a San Francisco Democrat, introduced a bill Monday that if approved by the California Legislature would put pot on the same legal footing as alcohol. Adults over the age of 21 would be allowed to buy it, and driving under the influence of marijuana would be prohibited.

Under Ammiano's proposal, which has been endorsed by some law enforcement officials, pot would be taxed at a rate of $50 per ounce and bring an estimated $1 billion into state coffers.

It's actually a brilliant plan to stimulate the economy, in my opinion. By legalizing Marijuana, you create jobs (pot farmers; marijuana sellers; Marijuana Users Anonymous counsellors) - by opening up a new line of industry, which is an effective way to end the depression - and by taxing it, which I highly doubt any users would be against -- in exchange for the right to smoke it without persecution, you get to sit in your back yard, and pass the pipe around, without worrying about the cops busting your peaceful quiet party, the amount of money to be brought in to help the state is fantastic.
 
I approve.

There is also the benefit of not having to incarcerate people, as well removing one avenue of Drug/Gang financing.
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2009, 07:43:07 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 24, 2009, 06:39:55 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on February 24, 2009, 06:20:34 PM

What do you do with all the people who are in jail for weed now? Grandfather them in? Or let them go?

If you are in jail for breaking the law, why should you get out just because the law changes? You still broke a law, and breaking a law means you should be punished.

Given CA's prison overpopulation, I'm sure parole for non-violent offenders would be acceptable, though most currently incarcerated people for weed probably have something else going against them.  I'm pretty sure most levels of possession or usage are misdemeanors anyways, so you're probably talking about Dealers, etc.
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« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2009, 07:59:10 PM »

I've been pondering legalization a lot lately. In reading Down By the River, all about the devastation Mexico is enduring due to the drug trade, I wonder if it would be a quick and easy fix?

The answer's not black and white obviously...but all that death and money ...to no avail.
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« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2009, 08:03:53 PM »

From an LA Times article:

Quote
But the biggest boon might be to the bottom line. By some estimates, California's pot crop is a $14-billion industry, putting it above vegetables ($5.7 billion) and grapes ($2.6 billion). If so, that could mean upward of $1 billion in tax revenue for the state each year.
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« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2009, 08:53:05 PM »

I have a feeling that even if you legalize it you'd still have people selling it on the side, like 'the legal stuff costs 10 bucks? we'll sell it to you for 5'.
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« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2009, 08:55:59 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on February 24, 2009, 08:53:05 PM

I have a feeling that even if you legalize it you'd still have people selling it on the side, like 'the legal stuff costs 10 bucks? we'll sell it to you for 5'.

Illegal moonshine is the same thing. 
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« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2009, 09:20:04 PM »

It's about time.

Anytime you can get a substantial number of citizens to happily fork over extra tax dollars, you should seriously consider doing it. Think how much higher our property taxes would be if not for all the yahoos lining up for lottery tickets.

Obviously, you'd need to set the price high enough to make it worth everyone's while and discourage overconsumption, yet low enough to take the profit out of the black market. I don't know what it retails for these days but I imagine that $100 an ounce would be a bargain. That's what, about $2 per joint? Last time I bought any it was more than double that.

I read that Obama's ordered the feds to stop persecuting sellers in the 13 states that have legalized medical marijuana, so it's only a matter of time before recreational use is widely legalized, too. How long do you suppose prohibition will hang on in backwards states?
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« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2009, 06:22:24 AM »

This is great. Abolish gay marriage, but legalize marijuana? saywhat Seriously, people are fucked up. No, I don't think marijuana should be illegal, but in comparison to citizens' rights to life and happiness together, weed ranks pretty damn low on the totem pole.

Good show, California. thumbsdown
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« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2009, 12:29:19 PM »

How do you monitor driving under the influence of pot?  With alcohol you can do a breathalyzer test and know right away but with pot there isn't anything that I know of.
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« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2009, 01:45:55 PM »

Quote from: warning on February 25, 2009, 12:29:19 PM

How do you monitor driving under the influence of pot?  With alcohol you can do a breathalyzer test and know right away but with pot there isn't anything that I know of.

Watch for people driving 10-15 miles below the speed limit.

I think your eyes will not dilate rapidly if your stoned.  There was an episode of COPS that I saw where the police officers were able to determine the dude was high using that method and a couple of others that I don't remember.
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« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2009, 01:46:55 PM »

Quote from: warning on February 25, 2009, 12:29:19 PM

How do you monitor driving under the influence of pot?  With alcohol you can do a breathalyzer test and know right away but with pot there isn't anything that I know of.

It's the bag-of-chips test.

Oh, and FTR, all of the other benefits including paper industry (and in California you could harvest three times a year) means it brings in more than just for those wanting to mellow out.

If one takes away the illegality of it, then most of your users will follow the safer route by buying it legitimately. Canada has been poised to do this for years, but US lobbyists have held it back. I don't think it's for everyone, but denying it to everyone for the sake of fear is ridiculous. Weed slows down people, it doesn't get them in the same state as state-approved chemical escapism and facilitate violence (like alchohol). Well, I could see the Vending Machine Repairman Lobbyists getting up in arms, but I don't think they have the sway that the snack industry has. Tongue
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2009, 01:47:31 PM »

Quote from: WalkingFumble on February 25, 2009, 01:45:55 PM

Quote from: warning on February 25, 2009, 12:29:19 PM

How do you monitor driving under the influence of pot?  With alcohol you can do a breathalyzer test and know right away but with pot there isn't anything that I know of.

Watch for people driving 10-15 miles below the speed limit.

I think your eyes will not dilate rapidly if your stoned.  There was an episode of COPS that I saw where the police officers were able to determine the dude was high using that method and a couple of others that I don't remember.

How can you tell if someone is drunk AND high?

They're driving slowly and carefully....
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2009, 02:56:23 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 24, 2009, 06:39:55 PM

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on February 24, 2009, 06:20:34 PM

What do you do with all the people who are in jail for weed now? Grandfather them in? Or let them go?

If you are in jail for breaking the law, why should you get out just because the law changes? You still broke a law, and breaking a law means you should be punished.

Are you serious? You can't keep someone imprisoned for something that isn't illegal anymore.

Ale
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« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2009, 04:54:09 PM »

Yes, you can.  It's still ex post facto.

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An ex post facto law (from the Latin for "after the fact") or retroactive law, is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences of acts committed or the legal status of facts and relationships that existed prior to the enactment of the law.
...
In the United States, the federal government is prohibited from passing ex post facto laws by Article I, section 9 of the U.S. Constitution and the states are prohibited from the same by clause 1 of section 10.

Just because it's being used to lighten or eliminate a sentence after the fact, it doesn't change the fact of what the penalties were at the time of conviction.  You would have to pass a corresponding law or rider for amnesty for those already imprisoned.
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2009, 04:27:55 PM »

Am i missing something here? Pot is illegal Federally, therefore it doesn't matter what the state does it can't make it legal.
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2009, 04:38:01 PM »

I'm gonna reduce our debt becuz I got high
I'm gonna write this law becuz I got high
I'm gonna make lots of farmers happy cuz I got high

Becuz I got high, becuz I got high, becuz I got highyah
La Da Dat Datta Dah

Alcohol kills more people a year than all drugs combined, and regular cigarettes did their damage as well.
If those things are legal then I don't see why Marijuana would be illegal.

I do agree that driving under the influence would have to be addressed.

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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2009, 04:47:09 PM »

Quote from: DamageInc on February 26, 2009, 04:38:01 PM

Alcohol kills more people a year than all drugs combined, and regular cigarettes did their damage as well.
If those things are legal then I don't see why Marijuana would be illegal.

Probably cause some retards made mary J a schedule 1 when they came up with the Controlled Substances Act in 1970.  It is in the same classification as Heroine, LSD.
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« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2009, 04:50:29 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 26, 2009, 04:27:55 PM

Am i missing something here? Pot is illegal Federally, therefore it doesn't matter what the state does it can't make it legal.

Who's going to enforce the federal prohibition?
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« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2009, 04:53:48 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on February 26, 2009, 04:50:29 PM

Quote from: Scuzz on February 26, 2009, 04:27:55 PM

Am i missing something here? Pot is illegal Federally, therefore it doesn't matter what the state does it can't make it legal.

Who's going to enforce the federal prohibition?

Same people who do it now.  DEA.
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« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2009, 04:57:06 PM »

The cities and towns will just pass regs making it against the rules to assist the DEA, who will become PNGs in Cali, making it very difficult to operate independently.  Just like a certain city did when addressing illegal immigration and the INS.
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« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2009, 05:58:27 PM »

And then the federal gov would cut california out of all federal subsidies.

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« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2009, 05:59:52 PM »

Quote from: DamageInc on February 26, 2009, 04:38:01 PM

I do agree that driving under the influence would have to be addressed.

Already is, hence DUI instead of DWI or drunk driving.
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« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2009, 09:51:05 PM »

Quote from: SensuousLettuce on February 26, 2009, 05:58:27 PM

And then the federal gov would cut california out of all federal subsidies.




California has laws allowing legal growing etc. for medical uses. However, the Fed's and even local governments still make busts or refuse to allow state implementation because of the Fed's ability to cut funds from oneprogram or another.

Also, think about it. If states could over rule Fed laws why didn't some state legalize alcohol after prohibition in the 20's?
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« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2009, 10:04:01 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 26, 2009, 09:51:05 PM

the Fed's and even local governments still make busts or refuse to allow state implementation because of the Fed's ability to cut funds from oneprogram or another.

Obama is expected to call off the dogs, as he promised to do multiple times while campaigning.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/05/dea-led-by-bush-continues-pot-raids/

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« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2009, 11:33:10 PM »

Quote from: Scuzz on February 26, 2009, 04:27:55 PM

Am i missing something here? Pot is illegal Federally, therefore it doesn't matter what the state does it can't make it legal.

Yeah., you're pretty much correct; it would be violative of the Controlled Substances Act, as marijuana is a Schedule I drug. 

It may be one thing for medical marijuana, as the Federal government does not control the practice of medicine (that's explicitly a state issue), and the Feds have not made a big stink about it (as though DEA-licensed prescribers cannot normally prescribe Schedule I drugs, the Feds likely exercise enforcement discretion in this instance as it's sufficiently subject to appropriate controls).  FYI, the law in California only legalizes prescription of marijuana (exempting prescribers from the old state penalties), but the Feds can take action on prescribers if they deem it appropriate.

Notably, from Ironrod's link, this appears to be Obama's position.

Quote
He told the newspaper the "basic concept of using medical marijuana for the same purposes and with the same controls as other drugs prescribed by doctors, I think that's entirely appropriate."

However, if California passes a law to sell marijuana as a consumer good without appropriate controls (i.e., such as the learned intermediary/prescriber licensed by DEA), I do not believe the Federal government, even run by Obama, will not take action.  California's law will be in direct conflict with the Federal Controlled Substances Act, and when there are conflicting laws, the Supremacy Clause of our Constitution says the Federal law trumps the State law.

The big trump card the Feds have is to force California to repeal the law, is to eliminate all Federal funding to California.  And no, the revenue gained from taxing pot sales wouldn't make up for the Federal money, in the least.
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2009, 08:32:52 PM »

I heard on Bill Maher's show last night that the AG will not prosecute and leave it up to individual states to determine Marijuana laws.
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« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2009, 08:48:29 PM »

Doing this would also help put a few ruthless gangs out of business, since many gangs use weed sales as quick and easy cash, but with really light punishments for trafficking it.  It will force them to go into other areas, which is a bad thing, but more law can be brought down on them.
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« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2009, 12:11:01 AM »

Quote from: DamageInc on February 28, 2009, 08:32:52 PM

I heard on Bill Maher's show last night that the AG will not prosecute and leave it up to individual states to determine Marijuana laws.

For medical marijuana.  Not consumer use.  Link:

Quote
“What the president said during the campaign ... will be consistent with what we will be doing here in law enforcement,” he said. “What (Obama) said during the campaign ... is now American policy.”

Obama indicated during the presidential campaign that he supported the controlled use of marijuana for medical purposes, saying he saw no difference between medical marijuana and other pain-control drugs.

“My attitude is if the science and the doctors suggest that the best palliative care and the way to relieve pain and suffering is medical marijuana, then that’s something I’m open to,” Obama said in November 2007 at a campaign stop in Audubon, Iowa. “There’s no difference between that and morphine when it comes to just giving people relief from pain.”
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« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2009, 12:54:33 AM »

Just legalize marijuana, make it like alcohol (must be 21, can't drive under the influence et al), and require a tax license to sell. 
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2009, 02:09:56 AM »

While we're at it, why not legalize cocaine and prostitution.
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2009, 03:07:17 AM »

Gee, let's see.  Because marijuana does not KILL you like cocaine?  Does not have the risk of IMMEDIATE ADDICTION that cocaine has? 

Prostitution:  I don't see any major reason not to have it legal other than the "OH TEH NOES TEH CHILDRENS!!!" morality stuff, which is exactly why it won't ever be nationally legal.  It hasn't exactly killed Nevada, however, and making it illegal hasn't done jack to ... y'know ... stop people from doing it.

Note:  I do not use marijuana.  I never have.  I don't smoke, either, and rarely drink.  But y'know what?  It's not my place to tell someone else what they can or can not do to their bodies, as long as it isn't in my home or car. 
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2009, 03:21:15 AM »

Pisses me off enough already I have to worry about some drunk asshole driving into my lane and killing me, my wife and my child. Adding potheads to the mix isn't going to help any.
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« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2009, 03:29:26 AM »

We're the ones going 10 mph under the limit with our windshield wipers and emergency flashers on. We wouldn't be driving at all if we didn't need Doritos.
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« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2009, 03:37:40 AM »

Yeah, I have to admit, I blame the fact that most people in Austin drive slower than shit on the (presumed, joking) fact that they're stoned. Tongue
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