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Author Topic: Birthers vs Truthers  (Read 2870 times)
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brettmcd
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« on: September 22, 2009, 06:38:13 PM »

Something interesting to think about here.

people say the numbers of republicans who believe the stupid claim that President Obama isnt a natural born citizen, was born in kenya and all that says something horrible and wrong about the republcan party as a whole.    I agree that the whole birther movement is stupid on its base and fully believe Obama is constitutionally qualifies to be president.

But I do wonder about what these same people would think about this poll and what it says about the democratic party as a whole.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/bush_administration/22_believe_bush_knew_about_9_11_attacks_in_advance

Its very similar in respects, a sizable number of people of the party opposing a president thinks that a horrible lie about that president is actually the truth.    Even more democrats, by this poll either think Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen or arent sure  (61%).     Now we are always told the truthers are a fringe movement, dont represent the true feelings of dems and all that.   And I dont have a huge problem accepting that.    But dont try and tell me that birthers somehow represent the true feelings of conservatives and the repubs unless you are also willing to accept that truthers are the same for the dems.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2009, 06:56:25 PM »

Are you really that stupid?  Really?

Haven't we been over this before?  Really?

Haven't we talked about whether there were warning signs, chatter and reports of an imminent threat to the US prior to 9/11 that basically went ignored?  Haven't we talked about how the poll was worded so that someone who understood there were warning signs could have said "yes" to Rasmussen's question?  Haven't we talked about that being a reasonable response to the question?  Haven't we talked about how "yes" doesn't mean the same thing as "Bush knew that the WTC was going to be hit by planes and didn't do anything so he could have a war"? 

Haven't we talked about false equivalencies before?  Haven't you learned what they are by now?
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brettmcd
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« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2009, 07:05:25 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 22, 2009, 06:56:25 PM

Are you really that stupid?  Really?

Haven't we been over this before?  Really?

Haven't we talked about whether there were warning signs, chatter and reports of an imminent threat to the US prior to 9/11 that basically went ignored?  Haven't we talked about how the poll was worded so that someone who understood there were warning signs could have said "yes" to Rasmussen's question?  Haven't we talked about that being a reasonable response to the question?  Haven't we talked about how "yes" doesn't mean the same thing as "Bush knew that the WTC was going to be hit by planes and didn't do anything so he could have a war"? 

Haven't we talked about false equivalencies before?  Haven't you learned what they are by now?

Im not trying to have an insult war here, I put this up for discussion, can we please have that without all the insults, I would like to try and have a discussion about something for once in here without all of that, so please stay out if you cant at least do that.
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msteelers
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« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2009, 07:09:31 PM »

In looking at articles that were written at the time this report came out, I found this nice little quote from the website Right Wing News.

Quote
Incidentally, this is why I think so many people are making a big mistake when they ignore these wacko conspiracy theories about 9/11, the North American Union Conspiracy, Jews ruling the world, etc. It's because if people who know better don't speak up, they allow the crazies to dominate the conversation by default and the public may not know the difference.

Of course, here's that same guy talking about death panels.

Quote
How dare Sarah Palin use the words "death panel!" Well, when unaccountable bureaucrats will literally have the power to deny you an operation that may save your life, the words "death panel" seem apt.

snip

People who would live if they were treated in the United States die on a regular basis in countries with socialized medicine because they have to wait in line too long, because they're denied operations, and because the government doesn't want to spend the money on the best equipment. If you don't think it will happen here if Obama gets his way, then you're fooling yourself.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2009, 07:12:53 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on September 22, 2009, 07:05:25 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on September 22, 2009, 06:56:25 PM

Are you really that stupid?  Really?

Haven't we been over this before?  Really?

Haven't we talked about whether there were warning signs, chatter and reports of an imminent threat to the US prior to 9/11 that basically went ignored?  Haven't we talked about how the poll was worded so that someone who understood there were warning signs could have said "yes" to Rasmussen's question?  Haven't we talked about that being a reasonable response to the question?  Haven't we talked about how "yes" doesn't mean the same thing as "Bush knew that the WTC was going to be hit by planes and didn't do anything so he could have a war"?  

Haven't we talked about false equivalencies before?  Haven't you learned what they are by now?

Im not trying to have an insult war here, I put this up for discussion, can we please have that without all the insults, I would like to try and have a discussion about something for once in here without all of that, so please stay out if you cant at least do that.

No brett, you're not looking for a discussion, you're trolling - and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.  We've been over this ground enough times.  You don't get a free pass while making yet another feeble attempt to try to create some sort of false equivalency.

You gave yourself away with this sentence, "by this poll either think Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen or aren't sure.  If you want to have a discussion, show me where in the poll it asks whether the respondents believed that Bush let it happen.  Since you won't find that, let's save time and call this for what it is - a failed trolling attempt.  Or would you rather say that you made yet another unsustainable illogical leap because your critical thinking skills are lacking?  Really, it's your choice - either it's trolling or it's stupidity.  You pick.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 07:19:46 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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brettmcd
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2009, 08:17:56 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 22, 2009, 07:12:53 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on September 22, 2009, 07:05:25 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on September 22, 2009, 06:56:25 PM

Are you really that stupid?  Really?

Haven't we been over this before?  Really?

Haven't we talked about whether there were warning signs, chatter and reports of an imminent threat to the US prior to 9/11 that basically went ignored?  Haven't we talked about how the poll was worded so that someone who understood there were warning signs could have said "yes" to Rasmussen's question?  Haven't we talked about that being a reasonable response to the question?  Haven't we talked about how "yes" doesn't mean the same thing as "Bush knew that the WTC was going to be hit by planes and didn't do anything so he could have a war"?  

Haven't we talked about false equivalencies before?  Haven't you learned what they are by now?

Im not trying to have an insult war here, I put this up for discussion, can we please have that without all the insults, I would like to try and have a discussion about something for once in here without all of that, so please stay out if you cant at least do that.

No brett, you're not looking for a discussion, you're trolling - and that's giving you the benefit of the doubt.  We've been over this ground enough times.  You don't get a free pass while making yet another feeble attempt to try to create some sort of false equivalency.

You gave yourself away with this sentence, "by this poll either think Bush knew about 9/11 and let it happen or aren't sure.  If you want to have a discussion, show me where in the poll it asks whether the respondents believed that Bush let it happen.  Since you won't find that, let's save time and call this for what it is - a failed trolling attempt.  Or would you rather say that you made yet another unsustainable illogical leap because your critical thinking skills are lacking?  Really, it's your choice - either it's trolling or it's stupidity.  You pick.

Fine, you are showing you just want to insult and not have a discussion.   Goodbye.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2009, 09:58:02 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on September 22, 2009, 08:17:56 PM

Fine, you are showing you just want to insult and not have a discussion.   Goodbye.

And good riddance.
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« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2009, 10:19:29 PM »

Wow, adar, based on this thread you sure look like a bully and an a$$, regardless of any of Brett's previous posting history.  If you didn't like what he had to say, why not ignore his thread instead of making it your personal mission to reply to everything with an insult?  He even went out of his way to ask NOT to have a flame war with you, instead of responding with the same level of vitriolic that you displayed.

And saying good riddance when someone declines to engage you?

Classy.
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« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2009, 10:39:19 PM »

Quote from: Rowdy on September 22, 2009, 10:19:29 PM

Wow, adar, based on this thread you sure look like a bully and an a$$, regardless of any of Brett's previous posting history.  If you didn't like what he had to say, why not ignore his thread instead of making it your personal mission to reply to everything with an insult?  He even went out of his way to ask NOT to have a flame war with you, instead of responding with the same level of vitriolic that you displayed.

And saying good riddance when someone declines to engage you?

Classy.

Honestly, if you were to take this thread as part of a larger experience, you might react differently.

Me, I'm trying to figure out why a bullshit poll about the 9/11 attacks has any kind of relevance to a bullshit poll about Obama's birthplace.
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« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2009, 11:43:06 PM »

that was also my thought...the items were not connected and shouldn't have been.
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Jaddison
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« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2009, 11:43:45 PM »

Because it "shows" that us liberals (anyone who doesn't agree with Brett or questions anything/everything he says is fact) are more nuts and more over the top partisan than conservatives
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brettmcd
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« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2009, 11:46:10 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on September 22, 2009, 10:39:19 PM

Quote from: Rowdy on September 22, 2009, 10:19:29 PM

Wow, adar, based on this thread you sure look like a bully and an a$$, regardless of any of Brett's previous posting history.  If you didn't like what he had to say, why not ignore his thread instead of making it your personal mission to reply to everything with an insult?  He even went out of his way to ask NOT to have a flame war with you, instead of responding with the same level of vitriolic that you displayed.

And saying good riddance when someone declines to engage you?

Classy.

Honestly, if you were to take this thread as part of a larger experience, you might react differently.

Me, I'm trying to figure out why a bullshit poll about the 9/11 attacks has any kind of relevance to a bullshit poll about Obama's birthplace.

The relevance is that in both cases you have sizable numbers of people of one party believing or not sure about an outright lie about the leader of the opposition party.    I think that says a lot about the state of american politics today.   I guess I was more looking to a discussion about why american politics from both sides has sunk to this level.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2009, 11:49:05 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on September 22, 2009, 11:43:45 PM

Because it "shows" that us liberals (anyone who doesn't agree with Brett or questions anything/everything he says is fact) are more nuts and more over the top partisan than conservatives

No, I clearly said and completely reject the whole birther movement as false and believed by a bunch of idiots in my first post.   I never said that this fringe group is anything but wrong and nuts.    I was using this to counter the claim by some in another thread that the birther moverment is somehow representative of conservatism or the republican party, it is no more that then the truthers are representative of liberals or the democratic party.
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« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2009, 12:17:05 AM »

Quote from: Jaddison on September 22, 2009, 11:43:45 PM

Because it "shows" that us liberals (anyone who doesn't agree with Brett or questions anything/everything he says is fact) are more nuts and more over the top partisan than conservatives
It's pretty obvious that most paranoiacs are liberals.
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« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2009, 12:43:55 AM »

So there was a discussion on here where it was purported that birthers are representative of the mainstream Republican party.

Did any democratic politician equivocate on truther dogma being untrue the way so many republicans equivocated about birther lore?  I really don't know about the former but I do about the latter.

Yer Ruper I am liberal because you, whoever you are, and Brett say I am. Got it.
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« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2009, 01:48:01 AM »

Quote from: brettmcd on September 22, 2009, 11:46:10 PM


The relevance is that in both cases you have sizable numbers of people of one party believing or not sure about an outright lie about the leader of the opposition party.    I think that says a lot about the state of american politics today.  

The right wingnuts drift to the R Party and the left wingnuts roll to the D. Both parties have sizable tinfoil hat contingents that want to believe the worst about their opponents. That's not a recent development. What *is* recent is the visibility, thanks to the proliferation of media, of both fringes. Increased exposure builds credibility, and so the fringes grow in number. Civility and respectful discourse are the casualties. 

So yeah, I agree with Brett -- this does say something about the current state of American politics.
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« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2009, 01:54:43 AM »

Both groups are whacky, but I think its easier to believe that Bush knew about 9/11 than to think that Obama's parents are some super masterminds to fake his birth certificate and newspaper release of his birth so he can be president when he grows up. I don't read the truther stuff much though so not sure how far back in time they say the Bush/9/11 stuff took to plan but wouldn't think it would be a lifetime.
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Doopri
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« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2009, 05:18:23 AM »

assuming the poll was conducted properly and is valid i find this part really interesting because NEVER in a million years would i have guessed it would be this high:

Quote
Overall, 22% of all voters believe the President knew about the attacks in advance. A slightly larger number, 29%, believe the CIA knew about the attacks in advance. White Americans are less likely than others to believe that either the President or the CIA knew about the attacks in advance. Young Americans are more likely than their elders to believe the President or the CIA knew about the attacks in advance.

However, just 8% of voters say the CIA was Very Truthful before the War in Iraq. Another 33% believe the CIA was Somewhat Truthful. Most, 52%, believe the CIA was Not Very Truthful or Not at All Truthful before the War.

i "bolded" certain parts.  by the poll, 35% of dems thought the president knew, 1 out of seven repubs thought he knew and 1 out of 5 voters thought he knew!  so we have roughly 1/3 dems, 1/7 repub and 1/5 of all voters.  that think the president knew in advance...  and if the question is whether the cia knew in advance then you have right around 1/3 of the VOTERS (regardless of party)thinking its true!  those are... pretty damn high overall and much higher than i ever would have guessed.
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« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2009, 05:27:01 AM »

Quote from: Doopri on September 23, 2009, 05:18:23 AM

and 1/5 of all voters.  that think the president knew in advance...  a

Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch.

One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth,

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Doopri
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« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2009, 05:32:31 AM »

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Oh, don't get your panties in a bunch.

One adult American in five thinks the Sun revolves around the Earth,

oh dear god... *cries*

in light of that information, i take back my entire post
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Blackadar
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2009, 12:43:07 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on September 23, 2009, 05:18:23 AM

assuming the poll was conducted properly and is valid i find this part really interesting because NEVER in a million years would i have guessed it would be this high:


Why?  

If you interpret "Bush knew about 9/11 in advance" as "The Bush Administration had warning that there was an impending terrorist attack on the USA in the fall of 2001", then those people are 100% factually correct.  Anyone who answers "no" to that interpretation of that question is incorrect.  In fact, this poll was taken when much of the intelligence leading up to 9/11 was leaking out in the press.  

If you interpret "Bush knew about 9/11 in advance" as "The Bush Administration knew the specifics of the 9/11 plot and did nothing about it", then those people are incorrect.  There is no evidence that Bush knew of the specifics of any plot, nor the intended targets.

The problem with brett - and we've been over this ground before - is that he think that everyone who answered "yes" had the sinister latter interpretation in mind.  While there is no doubt that there are some liberals (and conservatives) who might think that, it's not logical to think that even the majority of those who answered yes had that interpretation in mind.  That he is trying to make that assumption, and then trying to somehow link that to the crazy birther movement, shows the narrow limits of his ability to critically think and compare as well as his true views of anyone he thinks is a "liberal".  

Really, when he posts that:
Quote
I was using this to counter the claim by some in another thread that the birther moverment is somehow representative of conservatism or the republican party, it is no more that then the truthers are representative of liberals or the democratic party.
I think it's safe to say that he just doesn't get it, doesn't want to get it and won't ever get it.  
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2009, 12:51:45 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 23, 2009, 12:43:07 PM

If you interpret "Bush knew about 9/11 in advance" as "The Bush Administration had warning that there was an impending terrorist attack on the USA in the fall of 2001", then those people are 100% factually correct.  Anyone who answers "no" to that interpretation of that question is incorrect.  In fact, this poll was taken when much of the intelligence leading up to 9/11 was leaking out in the press.  

Exactly - the question, "Did Bush know about the 9/11 attacks in advance?", was worded ambiguously enough to permit both types of answer, and who, among Democrats, has forgotten that Bush received a PDB one month prior to the attacks titled "Bin Laden determined to strike in US"?
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2009, 01:20:15 PM »

I'm thinking that several agencies, including Bush, knew about the threat.  That said, I'm thinking more "we get threats like this all the time" and less "Arlington Road". 
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Blackadar
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2009, 01:40:47 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 23, 2009, 01:20:15 PM

I'm thinking that several agencies, including Bush, knew about the threat.  That said, I'm thinking more "we get threats like this all the time" and less "Arlington Road".  

Actually, there was significant concern in August regarding an impending attack.  Not only did we have fairly good intel of one, chatter was extremely high in spring and summer 2001.  In fact, we had enough intel to warn US Agencies about the strong possibility of a hijacking.  It was very much like "Arlington Road".  We knew there was a strongly likelihood we were going to get hit.  We just didn't know how or where.  

For example, here's an article from 2002 (so we don't have revisionist history creeping in) about what we knew and when we knew it:  http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/05/15/bush.sept.11/index.html

As such, asking if Bush knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance...well, yea, he did.  That in no way implies that he knew the exact details nor that he could have prevented the attacks and didn't.  And it's a logical fallacy to make the leap that answering the question "yes" in any way implies that he did.
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« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2009, 06:00:03 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 22, 2009, 06:56:25 PM

Are you really that stupid?  Really?



Lets knock it off here, enough of the condescending remarks
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« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2009, 08:25:20 PM »

Even Moammar Kadafi is a Birther!

Quote
"We Africans are happy, proud that a son of Africa governs the United States of America," said Kadafi, whose relations with the United States have generally been sour.

My favorite part is when he compares the hassles and security detail of being a U.N. diplomat to that of a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay.
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2009, 08:37:24 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on September 23, 2009, 08:25:20 PM

Even Moammar Kadafi is a Birther!

Quote
"We Africans are happy, proud that a son of Africa governs the United States of America," said Kadafi, whose relations with the United States have generally been sour.

Uh, that's not a birther.   Truthiness!
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« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2009, 07:36:25 PM »

It's a good week for dispelling brettmcd memes, as pollster.com has the results of a new poll that explicitly asks whether Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen.

Guess what?  Conservative birthers far outstrip liberal truthers in stupidity.

Quote
The primary finding is that the Obama birth certificate misperception has become far more prevalent among Republicans (42% no, 22% not sure) than the 9/11 misperception for Democrats (25% yes, 12% not sure). The percentage of Republicans who directly endorse the myth has increased substantially since the Daily Kos poll released in late July (which found 28% of Republicans said Obama wasn't born in this country and 30% weren't sure).
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« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2009, 07:45:53 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on September 24, 2009, 07:36:25 PM

It's a good week for dispelling brettmcd memes, as pollster.com has the results of a new poll that explicitly asks whether Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen.

Guess what?  Conservative birthers far outstrip liberal truthers in stupidity.

Quote
The primary finding is that the Obama birth certificate misperception has become far more prevalent among Republicans (42% no, 22% not sure) than the 9/11 misperception for Democrats (25% yes, 12% not sure). The percentage of Republicans who directly endorse the myth has increased substantially since the Daily Kos poll released in late July (which found 28% of Republicans said Obama wasn't born in this country and 30% weren't sure).

Now that poll isn't a false equivalency because they specifically ask the question "Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?"  There's no ambiguity in that question.

So the 27% of Democrats who said yes are outright morons who should be retroactively aborted.
As are the 43% of Republicans who said Obama wasn't born in the US.
As are the 19% of Republicans who said Obama is the anti-Christ.
As are the 11% of Democrats who said Bush is the anti-Christ.

The first comment on that page summed it up for me:

So I look at 37% of Democrats falling into the “Truther” trap, and I think “Man, we’ve too many idiots in this Party.” Then I see that 64% of Republicans are Birthers and I revise my opinion: “We’re geniuses compared to the GOP.”

Overall, I weep for the future of this country. 
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« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2009, 09:50:28 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on September 24, 2009, 07:45:53 PM

Quote from: Brendan on September 24, 2009, 07:36:25 PM

It's a good week for dispelling brettmcd memes, as pollster.com has the results of a new poll that explicitly asks whether Bush intentionally allowed 9/11 to happen.

Guess what?  Conservative birthers far outstrip liberal truthers in stupidity.

Quote
The primary finding is that the Obama birth certificate misperception has become far more prevalent among Republicans (42% no, 22% not sure) than the 9/11 misperception for Democrats (25% yes, 12% not sure). The percentage of Republicans who directly endorse the myth has increased substantially since the Daily Kos poll released in late July (which found 28% of Republicans said Obama wasn't born in this country and 30% weren't sure).


Now that poll isn't a false equivalency because they specifically ask the question "Do you think President Bush intentionally allowed the 9/11 attacks to take place because he wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East?"  There's no ambiguity in that question.

So the 27% of Democrats who said yes are outright morons who should be retroactively aborted.
As are the 43% of Republicans who said Obama wasn't born in the US.
As are the 19% of Republicans who said Obama is the anti-Christ.
As are the 11% of Democrats who said Bush is the anti-Christ.

The first comment on that page summed it up for me:

So I look at 37% of Democrats falling into the “Truther” trap, and I think “Man, we’ve too many idiots in this Party.” Then I see that 64% of Republicans are Birthers and I revise my opinion: “We’re geniuses compared to the GOP.”

Overall, I weep for the future of this country.  

I wonder how many people are both birthers AND truthers, that would have been an interesting number.   Also I am surprised by 22% of dems are birthers.  Now one thing I will agree with the poll writers is that the 9/11 question number could be affected by Bush no longer being president and not so much in the media, but that is in NO WAY being said to try and minimize the number of idiots on the republican side who have been sucked into this whole birther nonsense.

And for the first time in recorded history I can agree with Blackadar on something, I also weep for the future of this country with so many idiots in both parties.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2009, 09:53:13 PM by brettmcd » Logged
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« Reply #30 on: September 25, 2009, 04:21:11 AM »

In the defense of my brethren on both this and the other side of the aisle, there are also plenty of idiots who don't claim one party or the other. Idiots, idiots, all around.
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« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2009, 03:00:52 PM »

Quote from: Fireball1244 on September 25, 2009, 04:21:11 AM

In the defense of my brethren on both this and the other side of the aisle, there are also plenty of idiots who don't claim one party or the other. Idiots, idiots, all around.

Good God is this true.  I just wish so many of them wouldn't be on the freeway at the same time as I am.
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cheeba
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« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2009, 07:57:56 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on September 24, 2009, 07:36:25 PM

Guess what?  Conservative birthers far outstrip liberal truthers in stupidity.
Wow dude. Wow. You actually care which side has more of a particular fringe class of idiot. You win the most partisan zombie of the forum award for September.
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« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2009, 09:35:06 PM »

Well Cheeba Brendan may have a point though perhaps not as absolute as he made it.

Did anyone refuse to go to Iraq because they though George Bush knew about 9/11 and/or caused it to occur?

Not sure exactly how many have refused deployment under Obama but there are at least 3 and they have and had lots of support...oh and Orly as a lawyer.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2009, 09:53:52 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on September 26, 2009, 09:35:06 PM

Well Cheeba Brendan may have a point though perhaps not as absolute as he made it.

Did anyone refuse to go to Iraq because they though George Bush knew about 9/11 and/or caused it to occur?

Not sure exactly how many have refused deployment under Obama but there are at least 3 and they have and had lots of support...oh and Orly as a lawyer.

There were many people who refused to deploy under Bush.   300 alone have fled to Canada.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2006/Nov/20/ln/FP611200346.html

http://www.torontolife.com/features/we-wont-go-back/

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0202/p20s01-usmi.html


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« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2009, 10:13:01 PM »

Quote from: cheeba on September 26, 2009, 07:57:56 PM

Quote from: Brendan on September 24, 2009, 07:36:25 PM

Guess what?  Conservative birthers far outstrip liberal truthers in stupidity.
Wow dude. Wow. You actually care which side has more of a particular fringe class of idiot. You win the most partisan zombie of the forum award for September.

I graciously accept your award, as it's a tacit confirmation that I care about the truth more than you or your chums in trolldom.  If I lobotomized myself with an ice-pick, I still wouldn't be able to manage the volume of quasi-lucid contentless spew that you churn out on a regular basis.  It's truly an impressive use of your free time.
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« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2009, 01:08:12 AM »

Those people refused to deploy because they thought Bush engineered 9/11?  I am specifically comparing the "birther" refusals to a refusals by "truthers" if there were any.

Cowards always show their colors when called on to fulfill their obligations.  The cases i remember most vividly from the Iraq war were those who had accepted funds to go to school never thinking they would ever be called upon to actually serve in combat.  I don't think we have any of those types in the military  at this point since we have been at "war" for over 8 years now.
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« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2009, 07:20:30 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on September 26, 2009, 10:13:01 PM

I graciously accept your award, as it's a tacit confirmation that I care about the truth more than you or your chums in trolldom.
Huh. Here you are making comparisons again. One should not define one's self by comparisons to others. Again, get some age in you and you'll realize this. Some age would also hopefully give you the wisdom to understand why appointing yourself a cheerleader for one particular party was not a good idea.
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« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2009, 12:16:22 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on September 27, 2009, 01:08:12 AM

Those people refused to deploy because they thought Bush engineered 9/11?  I am specifically comparing the "birther" refusals to a refusals by "truthers" if there were any.

Cowards always show their colors when called on to fulfill their obligations.  The cases i remember most vividly from the Iraq war were those who had accepted funds to go to school never thinking they would ever be called upon to actually serve in combat.  I don't think we have any of those types in the military  at this point since we have been at "war" for over 8 years now.

Bingo.  These folks were thinking "Free college ride!", not "Serve my country with honor." 
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