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Author Topic: Oops, he did it again! (wright)  (Read 2341 times)
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msduncan
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« on: April 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM »

Wright is up to his old tricks again over the weekend:

Quote
Wright, who is on sabbatical before retiring from Trinity United, said America’s mistreatment of blacks is the result of the founding fathers, who “planted slavery and white supremacy in the DNA of this republic.”

First reported by The Chicago Sun Times, Wright told mourners at the funeral that Thomas Jefferson, who partook in “pedophilia,” would also be considered unpatriotic these days because he wrote, “God would punish America for the sin of slavery.” He also quoted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said that the U.S. has a “congenital birth defect.”

Slam founding fathers -- check.
Paint with broad brush -- check.
Inflammatory remarks  -- check.


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unbreakable
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2008, 02:28:26 PM »

If only you would attack Hagee with the same zeal.
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Grundbegriff
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2008, 03:53:37 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on April 14, 2008, 02:28:26 PM

If only you would attack Hagee with the same zeal.
Hagee hasn't been McCain's pastor/mentor for 20 years.
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2008, 04:09:14 PM »

Quote from: Grundbegriff on April 14, 2008, 03:53:37 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on April 14, 2008, 02:28:26 PM

If only you would attack Hagee with the same zeal.
Hagee hasn't been McCain's pastor/mentor for 20 years.

Hagee is McCain's spiritual advisor.

Even conservative Catholic law professor Stephen Bainbridge finds McCain's Hagee flip-flop revolting:

Quote
At the risk of stretching the metaphor past the breaking point,you can get fleas from dogs whether you chose to lie down with them or they chose to lie down with you. There are some endorsements that ought to be disavowed whether the politico sought them out or not.

Of course, it’s a moot point in this case.  Greenwald claims that:

Quote
McCain has [sought Hagee’s endorsement]—repeatedly. He was introduced by Hagee at a South Carolina campaign event last year, an event proudly displayed on McCain’s campaign website. McCain expressed how “honored” and “pleased” he was over Hagee’s endorsement multiple times yesterday. And just this afternoon, McCain issued yet another pro-Hagee statement when asked about Hagee’s repellent history....

If so, this is even worse than McCain’s about face on Bob Jones University. It’s extremely disappointing.

But hey, we expect this kind of behavior out of those guys, right?  It's not new, and it's not news.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2008, 04:18:23 PM by unbreakable » Logged
unbreakable
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2008, 04:26:44 PM »

Here you go MSD, I've got a new avatar for you.  Seeing how you are all anti-hate speech and everything.

In the interests of being fair and balanced, you really should use it!
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denoginizer
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 04:29:23 PM »

You don't see the difference between Hagee/McCain and Obama and the Pastor at his own church who gave the homily at his wedding?

Do you really think those are the same thing?
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Brendan
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2008, 04:29:39 PM »

Here's the only necessary response to this stupid topic.
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denoginizer
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:29:39 PM

Here's the only necessary response to this stupid topic.

I agree that Obama's speech was outstanding and should have put an end to this issue..  Unfortunately we see more coverage of Wright in the media than we do of that speech.  It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.  It makes me wonder why anyone in their right mind would want to run for President.
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Brendan
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2008, 07:02:00 PM »

Quote from: msduncan on April 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM

Wright is up to his old tricks again over the weekend:

Quote
Wright, who is on sabbatical before retiring from Trinity United, said America’s mistreatment of blacks is the result of the founding fathers, who “planted slavery and white supremacy in the DNA of this republic.”

First reported by The Chicago Sun Times, Wright told mourners at the funeral that Thomas Jefferson, who partook in “pedophilia,” would also be considered unpatriotic these days because he wrote, “God would punish America for the sin of slavery.” He also quoted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said that the U.S. has a “congenital birth defect.”

Slam founding fathers -- check.
Paint with broad brush -- check.
Inflammatory remarks  -- check.




Why should the founding fathers get any pass? I mean they did perpetuate the sin of slavery. Sure some of his comments are rather suspect and inflammatory but they have a strong strain of truth to them. The United States was born flawed and it would be rather wrong to say otherwise.
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msduncan
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 02:44:03 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.

No really, I'm pretty sure Obama covered all of this in his speech.  You should watch it again, I think you may have missed something.

gellar
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msduncan
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« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2008, 02:45:04 AM »

Quote from: CSL on April 14, 2008, 07:02:00 PM

Quote from: msduncan on April 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM

Wright is up to his old tricks again over the weekend:

Quote
Wright, who is on sabbatical before retiring from Trinity United, said America’s mistreatment of blacks is the result of the founding fathers, who “planted slavery and white supremacy in the DNA of this republic.”

First reported by The Chicago Sun Times, Wright told mourners at the funeral that Thomas Jefferson, who partook in “pedophilia,” would also be considered unpatriotic these days because he wrote, “God would punish America for the sin of slavery.” He also quoted Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who said that the U.S. has a “congenital birth defect.”

Slam founding fathers -- check.
Paint with broad brush -- check.
Inflammatory remarks  -- check.




Why should the founding fathers get any pass? I mean they did perpetuate the sin of slavery. Sure some of his comments are rather suspect and inflammatory but they have a strong strain of truth to them. The United States was born flawed and it would be rather wrong to say otherwise.

There was fierce debate in the Constitutional convention about slavery.     Some of the Representatives were indeed in favor of slavery.    There were a bunch that were not.    The framers decided to table the issue to be delt with later in the interest of actually passing a Constitution and saving the Union that was on shakey grounds due to Articles that were not adequate.

So yes...there were people in favor of slavery at the time.    But it was the times they lived in and operated in.   I'm more impressed that a good number of founders actually argued that it should be abolished at the time.    I don't think this is the same as a preacher bringing up something that not a single living soul has endured nor perpetrated upon another.      This is wedge to keep the masses in check, and to keep the power within certain elements of the black leadership.  (not Obama -- people like Wright and Jessie Jackson).
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msduncan
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2008, 02:46:38 AM »

Quote from: gellar on April 15, 2008, 02:44:03 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.

No really, I'm pretty sure Obama covered all of this in his speech.  You should watch it again, I think you may have missed something.

gellar

Obama made a good speech that I still contend was nothing more than a fancy wrapped version of "Oh look at brother Wright!  He's wacky and crazy but we love him!".       It was a nut and cup game that took focus off the fact that Obama had and has a long term close relationship with an outspoken anti-white bigot.
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gellar
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2008, 02:48:36 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:46:38 AM

Quote from: gellar on April 15, 2008, 02:44:03 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:40:15 AM

Quote from: Brendan on April 14, 2008, 04:42:42 PM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 14, 2008, 04:35:11 PM

It's sad but that is the way our society works these days.

So opt out of the bullshit and ignore trolling like this thread, and the equivalent in real-world trolling in the news media.  Ignore manufactured outrage.  Make rational decisions about your elected officials based on their positions, their promises, and their records.  Obama has a website with information on his health care plan, his plan for troops in the middle east, his plan for pulling the economy out of the Bush-generated recession, etc.  Conservatives want to push this fucking ridiculous Manchurian candidate meme with their whispers about his middle name, his childhood school in Jakarta, and his pastor.  Just opt out.

Wright continues to put himself in the news this way.    This is why these threads keep coming up.      This man was as close to Obama as a grandfather or even a father figure.    I think we are well within reason to question why this man continues to spout hatred and bigotry on the public scene, and ask why Obama hasn't left that church in the intrest of racial unity and his Presidential aspirations.     Speeches be damned.

No really, I'm pretty sure Obama covered all of this in his speech.  You should watch it again, I think you may have missed something.

gellar

Obama made a good speech that I still contend was nothing more than a fancy wrapped version of "Oh look at brother Wright!  He's wacky and crazy but we love him!".       It was a nut and cup game that took focus off the fact that Obama had and has a long term close relationship with an outspoken anti-white bigot.

I'm still pretty sure you are missing the point.  Really, watch it again.  It will make you a better person, I promise.

gellar
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2008, 02:53:39 AM »

Quote from: gellar

I'm still pretty sure you are missing the point.  Really, watch it again.  It will make you a better person, I promise.

gellar

I'm pretty sure if I watch it again, Obama will still have a long standing close relationship with an anti-white bigot.
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2008, 02:54:25 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:53:39 AM

Quote from: gellar

I'm still pretty sure you are missing the point.  Really, watch it again.  It will make you a better person, I promise.

gellar

I'm pretty sure if I watch it again, Obama will still have a long standing close relationship with an anti-white bigot.

Then I'm pretty sure you are going to miss the point again.  Nevermind.  MY PROMISE IS REVOKED.

gellar
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM »

Quote from: gellar on April 15, 2008, 02:54:25 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 02:53:39 AM

Quote from: gellar

I'm still pretty sure you are missing the point.  Really, watch it again.  It will make you a better person, I promise.

gellar

I'm pretty sure if I watch it again, Obama will still have a long standing close relationship with an anti-white bigot.

Then I'm pretty sure you are going to miss the point again.  Nevermind.  MY PROMISE IS REVOKED.

gellar

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.  At this point if Obama were to leave that church it would probably legitimize some of the criticism in a way that the Obama campaign probably wouldn't want.  The best thing for Obama is for this whole issue to go away.  If I were Obama I would pay for a nice long vacation in Europe for Wright until....oh about December.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2008, 05:13:10 AM »

Quote from: denoginizer on April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.

One of the "best speeches on race" that you've ever heard, and yet it still didn't actually make a difference to you.  Who the fuck cares about who presided over his wedding?  I want to know how he gets health care to American citizens who don't have it.  I want to know how we get my friend back from fucking Afghanistan before the end of another tour of duty.  I want to know if he's going to obey the law and prohibit torture and warrantless wiretapping of American citizens.  Do you seriously think that Senator Obama hates America?  He gave a speech that explicitly addressed his relationship with Wright, that specifically discussed the sensitive nature of race relations in this country, and I'm beginning to think it was a waste of his time.  I'm at the point where I believe there is nothing he could do that would prevent the concern trolling.
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2008, 11:35:12 AM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 05:13:10 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.

One of the "best speeches on race" that you've ever heard, and yet it still didn't actually make a difference to you.  Who the fuck cares about who presided over his wedding?  I want to know how he gets health care to American citizens who don't have it.  I want to know how we get my friend back from fucking Afghanistan before the end of another tour of duty.  I want to know if he's going to obey the law and prohibit torture and warrantless wiretapping of American citizens.  Do you seriously think that Senator Obama hates America?  He gave a speech that explicitly addressed his relationship with Wright, that specifically discussed the sensitive nature of race relations in this country, and I'm beginning to think it was a waste of his time.  I'm at the point where I believe there is nothing he could do that would prevent the concern trolling.

I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing about a Republican candidate that was best buds with an outspoken hatemonger?    Would you really say 'who the fuck cares about his relationship with this racist, what's he going to do about .... .... ..."?

And nobody is saying Obama hates America.    We're saying it's interesting who he includes in his inner circle, and what that individual is saying.     I mean I don't know about you, but I don't hang out with racists and if one of the people I knew was as openly racist as Wright, he wouldn't be a friend or confidant for long.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 11:39:18 AM by msduncan » Logged
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2008, 11:51:22 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 11:35:12 AM

I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing about a Republican candidate that was best buds with an outspoken hatemonger?    Would you really say 'who the fuck cares about his relationship with this racist, what's he going to do about .... .... ..."?

Do you see me starting threads about Hagee or any of the other hatemonger evangelical leaders?  No.  I don't care about them either.
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2008, 12:15:15 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 05:13:10 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.

One of the "best speeches on race" that you've ever heard, and yet it still didn't actually make a difference to you.  Who the fuck cares about who presided over his wedding?  I want to know how he gets health care to American citizens who don't have it.  I want to know how we get my friend back from fucking Afghanistan before the end of another tour of duty.  I want to know if he's going to obey the law and prohibit torture and warrantless wiretapping of American citizens.  Do you seriously think that Senator Obama hates America?  He gave a speech that explicitly addressed his relationship with Wright, that specifically discussed the sensitive nature of race relations in this country, and I'm beginning to think it was a waste of his time.  I'm at the point where I believe there is nothing he could do that would prevent the concern trolling.

Easy there killer.  I voted for Obama in the Ohio primary and I intend to vote for him in November.  I have 2 brothers who have served in Iraq, one of which is scheduled to return in June.  I think Obama is a good man and and his victory would be great for the nation on so many levels.  Having said that I think there is a huge difference between his relationship with Wright and McCain's relationship with Hagee.  The fact that I support Obama doesn't change my opinion on that.  I want Obama to win and whether you or I agree with it or not, his relationship with Wright will influence voters in November. 
« Last Edit: April 15, 2008, 12:19:03 PM by denoginizer » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2008, 01:34:38 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 05:13:10 AM

Quote from: denoginizer on April 15, 2008, 03:10:59 AM

I guess the point is that it was one of the best speeches on race that I have ever heard.  But speeches are speeches.  Obama is great at the speech but lacking on the action in the eyes of a lot of voters.  The fact is the guy has been Obama's personal pastor for almost twenty years and presided over his wedding.

One of the "best speeches on race" that you've ever heard, and yet it still didn't actually make a difference to you.  Who the fuck cares about who presided over his wedding?  I want to know how he gets health care to American citizens who don't have it.  I want to know how we get my friend back from fucking Afghanistan before the end of another tour of duty.  I want to know if he's going to obey the law and prohibit torture and warrantless wiretapping of American citizens.  Do you seriously think that Senator Obama hates America?  He gave a speech that explicitly addressed his relationship with Wright, that specifically discussed the sensitive nature of race relations in this country, and I'm beginning to think it was a waste of his time.  I'm at the point where I believe there is nothing he could do that would prevent the concern trolling.

For what it's worth, that speech is what finally tipped me over to Obama's camp. 
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« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2008, 11:17:04 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on April 15, 2008, 11:51:22 AM

Quote from: msduncan on April 15, 2008, 11:35:12 AM

I wonder if you'd be saying the same thing about a Republican candidate that was best buds with an outspoken hatemonger?    Would you really say 'who the fuck cares about his relationship with this racist, what's he going to do about .... .... ..."?

Do you see me starting threads about Hagee or any of the other hatemonger evangelical leaders?  No.  I don't care about them either.

Fair enough.

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