http://gamingtrend.com
October 02, 2014, 06:45:03 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Are you going to hell?  (Read 5164 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« on: January 18, 2008, 11:41:15 PM »

Using the hypothesis that we can all agree that there is a Hell.

Who among us is going and why?
Logged
Lee
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3317


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 11:44:48 PM »

Since my favorite cuss word is Jesus H Christ, I am probably a shoe in if God cares about such things. smile

Then there's the non stop blasphemy when I get in a debate with Christians.
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 01:39:33 AM »

I'm not.  I plan to live forever off the blood of the innocent.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15472


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM »

Quote from: Lee on January 18, 2008, 11:44:48 PM

Since my favorite cuss word is Jesus H Christ, I am probably a shoe in if God cares about such things. smile


He does indeed sir.

And the answer to the original question is no, I'm not going to hell.

Logged
Knightshade Dragon
Administrator
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 21061



View Profile WWW
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2008, 12:12:27 AM »

I've done some things in my life, but if you believe in Hell you also believe in redemption.  I think I'm a good person at heart, but my mean streak has certainly made others suffer occasionally.
Logged

Ron Burke
EiC, Director of Gaming Trend
Gamertag:
Gaming Trend
PS3 Tag: GamingTrend
CSL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1356


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM »

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.
Logged
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15472


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM »

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.
Logged
CSL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1356


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2008, 05:20:32 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.

So a vain God, gotcha.
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2008, 06:09:12 PM »

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:20:32 PM

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.

So a vain God, gotcha.

it's all him, him, him, like Marsha, Marsha, Marsha......

wait...

Marsha Brady is god?

 eek
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2008, 07:38:19 PM »

I believe that since in college - I genuinely asked Jesus into my heart that I'm spared an eternity in Hell.

Unfortunately though because of some personal tragedies since then - I've allowed my heart to be filled with poisonous things like unforgiveness and hatred and so according to the Bible (Matt 6:15) - I'm screwed while here on Earth.
Logged
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15472


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2008, 07:55:25 PM »

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:20:32 PM

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.

So a vain God, gotcha.

I'd say it's more like your impression of what God should be is a ways away from who He actually says He is.
Logged
ATB
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 15472


Thanks for everything, Ryan. 1979-2013


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2008, 07:56:52 PM »

Quote from: DarkEL on January 20, 2008, 07:38:19 PM

I believe that since in college - I genuinely asked Jesus into my heart that I'm spared an eternity in Hell.

Yep. Safe.

Quote
Unfortunately though because of some personal tragedies since then - I've allowed my heart to be filled with poisonous things like unforgiveness and hatred and so according to the Bible (Matt 6:15) - I'm screwed while here on Earth.

Salvation and obedience are two different things though. Don't confuse them...
Logged
Purge
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 18550



View Profile WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2008, 08:12:54 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.

Not to discredit your source, however a book that says some dude climbed a mountain for 3 days with no supplies, and then came back down with 2 stone tablets and a story of a burning bush sure sounds like either:

a) a strategic way to control a mass of peoples who were just saved "in the name of the Lord"
b) a lie
c) Moses was "burning weed" all on his own and with the help of the StoneCutters he got himself the biggest prank ever.

But hey, I'm sure the good lord intends to have himself represented by sexually repressed priests with depraved practices of homosexual encounters with impressionable young men.

By no means am I suggesting he DOES want that to be the representation, and I am also aware that that isn't a uniform discription across all deviations and variations of the christian beliefs. All I'm saying is that if I were calling the shots I'd make sure a few of those priests met an untimely and freakish demise to encourage the flock to heed the words. You know, since he's willing to write down instructions for us and all. I mean, a refresher course isn't a bad thing is it?

I don't not believe in God; I just think that the institution of Church isn't worth the bodies of the poor that it's built itself up on.

I just despise martyrdom and the belief that this life; the one we have, is to be dedicated to the one in the afterlife rather than enjoying and prospering in this one. One in the hand is worth two in the burning bush, no?

I also think that when we die there's a life review where you get to experience your life through everyone elses perspective, and if you truly repent for your misgivings and show that you've learned that you "pass". I think there's a couple of mulligans and probably a low watermark where if you show no remorse that God cancels your "existance" cheque and you cease to be. Why pay for administration of hell when you can just move on?

Oh, and the Devil is good friends with God. They play bridge together, but the easter bunny and Shiva keep cleaning their clocks at it.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 08:20:54 PM by Purge » Logged

"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2008, 11:03:53 PM »

Quote from: Purge on January 20, 2008, 08:12:54 PM

Not to discredit your source, however a book that says some dude climbed a mountain for 3 days with no supplies, and then came back down with 2 stone tablets

actually....
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2008, 11:45:52 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 07:56:52 PM

Quote from: DarkEL on January 20, 2008, 07:38:19 PM

I believe that since in college - I genuinely asked Jesus into my heart that I'm spared an eternity in Hell.

Yep. Safe.

Quote
Unfortunately though because of some personal tragedies since then - I've allowed my heart to be filled with poisonous things like unforgiveness and hatred and so according to the Bible (Matt 6:15) - I'm screwed while here on Earth.

Salvation and obedience are two different things though. Don't confuse them...
No confusion. I understand that salvation is a done deal.

however because of my own failings I am unable to have a "relationship" with God here on earth nor am I able to experience any of the blessings.
Logged
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2008, 12:08:14 AM »

Quote from: Purge on January 20, 2008, 08:12:54 PM

But hey, I'm sure the good lord intends to have himself represented by sexually repressed priests with depraved practices of homosexual encounters with impressionable young men.

By no means am I suggesting he DOES want that to be the representation, and I am also aware that that isn't a uniform discription across all deviations and variations of the christian beliefs. All I'm saying is that if I were calling the shots I'd make sure a few of those priests met an untimely and freakish demise to encourage the flock to heed the words. You know, since he's willing to write down instructions for us and all. I mean, a refresher course isn't a bad thing is it?
I agree with you - I wish those people would die as well as it's horrible the things that have occurred. The problem is that those types of people exist in our society and they do gravitate towards positions of influence and power where they can take advantage of trust. So it doesn't just happen in the church, but happens in schools, youth sports teams, etc, etc.

Quote
I don't not believe in God; I just think that the institution of Church isn't worth the bodies of the poor that it's built itself up on.

I just despise martyrdom and the belief that this life; the one we have, is to be dedicated to the one in the afterlife rather than enjoying and prospering in this one. One in the hand is worth two in the burning bush, no?
There's no arguing that there isn't a large number of hucksters out there who take advantage of the poor and use religion as a means to make themselves rich.  It's sick and it's sad.

As an example - there was once a time in my life where I was working as a licensed missionary for a well known church denomination. Yep that means that I once preached and taught others. Hard to believe huh? But one of the reasons that I dropped out of it was due to the "business of the ministry". I had senior missionaries and church leaders "teaching" me how I needed to be constantly on the lookout of building up more and more people who would give money to support me. Stuff like how I needed to dress and act a certain way when meeting people and how to make sure to give my "ministry card" to wealthy members of the church. People that I respected were telling me how they turned down speaking engagements at certain churches because they knew that they wouldn't "get enough money" from the offering to make it worth their time.

It got to the point where I decided that I just couldn't live like that and thus went back to a normal career working with computers.

Quote
I also think that when we die there's a life review where you get to experience your life through everyone elses perspective, and if you truly repent for your misgivings and show that you've learned that you "pass". I think there's a couple of mulligans and probably a low watermark where if you show no remorse that God cancels your "existance" cheque and you cease to be. Why pay for administration of hell when you can just move on?
From my understanding of the Bible there are actually two judgements that people will face.

The first is what was portrayed as separating the sheep from the goats. Which is to send those who rejected Christ to a place without Christ.

The second is what is called the judgement seat of Christ in which all believers are judged and where every deed / thought / etc that they did will be laid bare in front of all. However this judgement isn't one of punishment but more of reward or loss of reward. In it the true motives behind what people did will be exposed and some will be extravagantly rewarded and some will receive nothing. It's said that many well known believers will receive little to nothing and many little old ladies will be showered upon.
Logged
Brendan
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3841


two oh sickness


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2008, 12:16:47 AM »

Quote from: DarkEL on January 21, 2008, 12:08:14 AM

The first is what was portrayed as separating the sheep from the goats. Which is to send those who rejected Christ to a place without Christ.

Why are sheep > goats?  Goats seem like perfectly reasonable livestock, and they certainly have the reputation of being less picky about their eating habits than sheep.  Why pick on them?
Logged
Lee
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3317


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2008, 01:18:54 AM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 07:56:52 PM

Quote from: DarkEL on January 20, 2008, 07:38:19 PM

I believe that since in college - I genuinely asked Jesus into my heart that I'm spared an eternity in Hell.

Yep. Safe.

So you speak for God? You aren't supposed to judge I thought, it's up to your God to decide who is going to hell or not. slywink

And since supposedly in your Gods eyes saying his name in vain is just as bad as being a rapist, murderer, etc, that is why I don't believe in him. I would think such a higher power would be above such trivial things, and if he's not, then he is not the god for me.
Logged
th'FOOL
Executive Producer and Editor-At-Large
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 5016


Never whistle while you're pissing


View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2008, 01:31:09 AM »

Hell?  I live in Houston.  Close enough.
Logged

Mike Dunn
Executive Producer & Managing Editor, GamingTrend
CSL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1356


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2008, 08:53:58 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on January 21, 2008, 01:31:09 AM

Hell?  I live in Houston.  Close enough.

New Jersey is close?
Logged
CSL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1356


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2008, 09:03:17 AM »

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 07:55:25 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:20:32 PM

Quote from: ATB on January 20, 2008, 12:43:16 PM

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

Define 'worse behavior'.

God takes the reverence of Himself and His name incredibly seriously, hence the first three Commandments.  So perhaps our view of what 'worse behavior' constitutes is off.

So a vain God, gotcha.

I'd say it's more like your impression of what God should be is a ways away from who He actually says He is.

And your message of how he/she/it views itself and how we should view he/she/it turns me off instantly.

Which is all the more perplexing considering I can't quite conceive of a vain, frankly to me awfully pompous God, inspiring beautiful things such as Amazing Grace or Greek Orthodox Churchs.

If I may ask though, what denomination are you ATB?
Logged
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2008, 12:07:59 PM »

Quote from: DarkEL on January 18, 2008, 11:41:15 PM

Using the hypothesis that we can all agree that there is a Hell.

Who among us is going and why?

Well, what is Hell?

Is it the Christian Hell, with fire and brimstone?

Or is it the Jewish Hell, which is the absence of God?

Is it temporary (Buddhism) or permanent?
Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
IkeVandergraaf
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2784


RRoD FTL! F MS!


View Profile
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2008, 04:43:31 PM »

Been there.  Didn't care for it.
Logged

Gamertag = IkeV
I KNOW DEEP IN MY NMIND THAT THIS DISGUSTING WEBSITE THAT IS OBIVOUSLY OPERATED BY HIGHSCHOOL DROPOUTS LIVING PURPOSELESS AND JOBLESS LIVES
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2008, 04:53:46 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 12:07:59 PM

Well, what is Hell?

Is it the Christian Hell, with fire and brimstone?

Or is it the Jewish Hell, which is the absence of God?
I think that theologically they are actually the same. A Christian definition of hell is also being removed from the presence of God however that definition has had a good amount of "color" added to it's description over the years (i.e. fire, brimstone, etc)

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 12:07:59 PM

Is it temporary (Buddhism) or permanent?
Admittedly I never studied Buddhism beyond a very superficial glance. Do they believe in a Hell? If so what are the requirements for being sent there? And since you mention them as temporary - how is the length of time you spend there determined?
Logged
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2008, 04:54:25 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 21, 2008, 04:43:31 PM

Been there.  Didn't care for it.
Houston??

I agree - horrible horrible place.
Logged
gellar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 8989


I'm a dolphin!


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2008, 05:25:26 PM »

Probably.

gellar
Logged
Calvin
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 13895

President of G.R.O.S.S.


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2008, 05:32:46 PM »

Quote from: gellar on January 21, 2008, 05:25:26 PM

Probably.

gellar

No,no,no..no,no, no no no. You are definitely going to hell. <3
Logged
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2008, 06:01:47 PM »

Quote from: DarkEL on January 21, 2008, 04:54:25 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 21, 2008, 04:43:31 PM

Been there.  Didn't care for it.
Houston??

I agree - horrible horrible place.

so Marsha Brady is god and Houston is hell. Who's the devil then?  I already know heaven is in between Jessica Alba's breasts.
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2008, 07:50:42 PM »

Quote from: DarkEL on January 21, 2008, 04:53:46 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 12:07:59 PM

Well, what is Hell?

Is it the Christian Hell, with fire and brimstone?

Or is it the Jewish Hell, which is the absence of God?
I think that theologically they are actually the same. A Christian definition of hell is also being removed from the presence of God however that definition has had a good amount of "color" added to it's description over the years (i.e. fire, brimstone, etc)


The Christian Hell has a malevolent being - Satan - acting as essentially the "anti-God".  Incidentally, this is very similar to the Islam version of Hell.  Every major sect of Christianity has the belief of this anti-God.  In fact, the entire last book of the New Testament is written around the 2nd coming of this being, called (of course) the anti-Christ. 

The Jewish Hell has no other being.  It's the absence of God which is Hell - knowing He exists, but not being able to be in his presence.  There is no counter-force, no Satan.  Therefore, the punishment of Hell is not from some outside force but an internal despair.  However, unlike much of Protestantism, you can ascend from this place (Gehenna) once you come into alignment with God. 

Buddhist Hell is all about using up your negative Karma points, like trying to discard a bad Uno hand.  biggrin
Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
CeeKay
Gaming Trend Staff
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 71766


La-bibbida-bibba-dum! La-bibbida-bibba-do!


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2008, 10:33:50 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 07:50:42 PM

However, unlike much of Protestantism, you can ascend from this place (Gehenna) once you come into alignment with God. 

would that alignment be Chaotic Neutral?
Logged

Because I can,
also because I don't care what you want.
XBL: OriginalCeeKay
Wii U: CeeKay
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2008, 11:30:25 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 07:50:42 PM

The Christian Hell has a malevolent being - Satan - acting as essentially the "anti-God".  Incidentally, this is very similar to the Islam version of Hell.  Every major sect of Christianity has the belief of this anti-God.  In fact, the entire last book of the New Testament is written around the 2nd coming of this being, called (of course) the anti-Christ. 

I think this a popular misconception (even one held by far too many christians for that matter). But the Christian faith never equates Satan as an "anti-god". He is always represented as a lesser being. He is listed as being the adversary of mankind - who would try to deceive all mankind from restoring relationship with God before the judgement through lies, deception, etc.

The last book of the New Testament is actually written about the second coming of Christ in the midst of this beings rise to power through increased deception and the final judgement of this world which includes the judgement of Satan.

Quote from: Blackadar on January 21, 2008, 07:50:42 PM

Buddhist Hell is all about using up your negative Karma points, like trying to discard a bad Uno hand.  biggrin

Laff - I like that description!
Logged
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2008, 12:09:41 AM »

Quote from: CSL on January 20, 2008, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: ATB on January 19, 2008, 11:01:14 PM

He does indeed sir.

You'd think an omnipotent being would have his eye on worse behavior.

I can't believe that I've been entertaining this much theological thought lately.

However I thought I might try and give a little justification as to why this might be considered a bad thing.

A thorough study of the Bible will reveal a very interesting thread that the bible attributes a tremendous amount of power to the words that we speak.
Couple examples (don't want to go to deep into theology though):
God created the world and everything we see by "speaking" it.
Salvation is made both by believing with the heart and "confessing" with the mouth.
Most demonstrations of miracles in the New Testament were a direct result of a declaration ("come out", "be healed", etc)
Tons of verses related to controlling your tongue, speaking the word, etc, etc

Yes - it's possible for people to go into a really weird place that try and take this to far (examples of people declaring that they're going to be the next Michael Jordan when they're 5'3" and never played a day in their life) - but some weirdos doesn't negate that the Bible does show this as a basic truth.

So if you accept the theory that God has created this world in a way that it responds to the power of spoken words - then it shouldn't be such a far stretch to understand why he might take a slight issue with his name being spoken in such a poor manner.
Logged
unbreakable
Guest
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2008, 12:41:22 AM »

I've been reading some stuff on strategy lately, and it's pretty interesting.  A lot of it deals with "cheating", which is essentially when you violate the commonly accepted ground rules (or an agreement, or whatever).

Obviously there's a lot of aspects to strategy, but there are two things which occurred to me regarding applying strategy to Christianity.  The first is that when the other person's actions toward you start to get separated from reality, the closer it gets to 50% it's in your favor to "cheat".  Because once they start penalizing you if you do things right or wrong, you are better off just doing things "wrong" all the time... because then half the time they will think you did right when you didn't.

The second is related, in that you can essentially negate ALL the wrong you have done by saying you are sorry at the end of the game.  So in that respect, it actually BENEFITS you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, kill, whatever, live exactly counter to everything taught in the bible... and just apologize for it all on your deathbed.  You know, kind of like Pinochet or a thousand other examples.  Because obviously there's no separate reward system for those who do good all their lives, and those who do evil.  The only reason to do "good" is for insurance, in the event you die without being able to repent your sins... but really, the odds of that happening are pretty low.

So simply from a strategic outlook, Christianity gives extremely little incentive to be a good person.  I blame the prodigal son.
Logged
Simon
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 1185


View Profile
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2008, 12:54:30 AM »

I'm not going to Heaven or Hell but I will be in a box on fire.
Logged
DarkEL
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 2931



View Profile WWW
« Reply #34 on: January 25, 2008, 08:34:56 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 22, 2008, 12:41:22 AM


The second is related, in that you can essentially negate ALL the wrong you have done by saying you are sorry at the end of the game.  So in that respect, it actually BENEFITS you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, kill, whatever, live exactly counter to everything taught in the bible... and just apologize for it all on your deathbed.  You know, kind of like Pinochet or a thousand other examples.  Because obviously there's no separate reward system for those who do good all their lives, and those who do evil.  The only reason to do "good" is for insurance, in the event you die without being able to repent your sins... but really, the odds of that happening are pretty low.

So simply from a strategic outlook, Christianity gives extremely little incentive to be a good person.  I blame the prodigal son.

So in your opinion it's sort of like slacking off at work because the difference in salary increase between "Meet Expectations" and "Exceeds Expectations" will typically be < 2% 

 icon_twisted
Logged
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #35 on: January 25, 2008, 10:02:39 PM »

Quote from: unbreakable on January 22, 2008, 12:41:22 AM

The second is related, in that you can essentially negate ALL the wrong you have done by saying you are sorry at the end of the game.  So in that respect, it actually BENEFITS you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, kill, whatever, live exactly counter to everything taught in the bible... and just apologize for it all on your deathbed.  You know, kind of like Pinochet or a thousand other examples.  Because obviously there's no separate reward system for those who do good all their lives, and those who do evil.  The only reason to do "good" is for insurance, in the event you die without being able to repent your sins... but really, the odds of that happening are pretty low.

So simply from a strategic outlook, Christianity gives extremely little incentive to be a good person.  I blame the prodigal son.

Actually, this is a pretty good point.  I understand why it's a major attraction for people to become Christian, but I think it's a crock of shit.  I've never seen this adequately explained...why the get out of jail free card for misdeeds?  It just seems like it encourages a lack of responsibility for your own actions.
Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
davidf
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 79


View Profile
« Reply #36 on: January 25, 2008, 10:03:38 PM »

I consider myself a person of faith, was a christian missionary in my youth and have God in my life. However apparently I'm going to hell...
1) I believe in the passage in Romans I believe "Give unto Ceaser that which is Ceasers", and "” Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” Not to mention that the US was founded on religious freedom, but now we want to quash anyone that is not christian, that man somehow knows better than Gods will and right now trying to merge church and state into such a way that i totally see a new holy crusade on the horizon. That a nation of believers and non believers should all be under gods law, even against non believers will. I think Adam and Eve was given free will and made the wrong choice, we are trying to correct that by legistlating these peoples interpitations of God's laws, despite them not being saved??? Great way to witness to others, think you have any chance of a non believer listening now???

2) "“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." in Mathew 7 and verses that state judge will judge in the next life, it is not our place to judge non believers, but show them the way. So for me when I read memebers of the Westboro Baptist Church "God Hates Fags and Fag Enablers," (again untrue, GOD loves sinner and faithful the same per bible i read. and "Heath in Hell" or best yet ""Heath Ledger is now in Hell, and has begun serving his eternal sentence there -- besides which, nothing else about Heath Ledger is relevant or consequential." I know I'm going to hell since I can't judge or hate others so venimitely. In fact as far as I can tell this goes opposite to the bibles mandate to bear witness and showing them the light, as you'll never get a non believe to listen to your words that God is love, when you are spewing hate in the other breath. Seem like hypocracy actually, which God despises per numerous passages..however apparently per the religious zelots I'm sinful for my tolerance, and God isn't in my heart.

I just think SO much of what organized religion is doing today is not walking in God's light...in fact I can't help but think of Mark 11 "Then they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves" Sometime I wish he would come back now and throw these power mongers out, but what do I know....
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 10:20:10 PM by davidf » Logged
davidf
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 79


View Profile
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2008, 10:11:27 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on January 25, 2008, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 22, 2008, 12:41:22 AM

The second is related, in that you can essentially negate ALL the wrong you have done by saying you are sorry at the end of the game.  So in that respect, it actually BENEFITS you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, kill, whatever, live exactly counter to everything taught in the bible... and just apologize for it all on your deathbed.  You know, kind of like Pinochet or a thousand other examples.  Because obviously there's no separate reward system for those who do good all their lives, and those who do evil.  The only reason to do "good" is for insurance, in the event you die without being able to repent your sins... but really, the odds of that happening are pretty low.

So simply from a strategic outlook, Christianity gives extremely little incentive to be a good person.  I blame the prodigal son.

Actually, this is a pretty good point.  I understand why it's a major attraction for people to become Christian, but I think it's a crock of shit.  I've never seen this adequately explained...why the get out of jail free card for misdeeds?  It just seems like it encourages a lack of responsibility for your own actions.


If I recall correctly, anyone could ask for forgiveness, and recieve it IF they are truely be repentent, asking for forgiveness just because you were afraid is not enough! It requires a change in your soul, a real commitment to make your life for God, you would get that forgiveness if your heart was pure even if you only had a few seconds in this life left. This made sense to me and always seemed like the loving God I grew up with that loved everyone and just wanted you to rejoin him in the light.  For those that lived thier life in his light (and no just on sundays or before you get on a flight) you have a special place at God's right hand. As you've spent your life here serving as witness despite the hardships and challanges, that forges a strong bright light of grace in your spirit, something you take with you to the new kingdom, you are brighter and bigger.

When I was a kid I always thought of it as anyone is welcome, and even late comers could recieve grace, but the young ones are would be little more than misty ghosts, while those that had lived their life in the light, a diamond forged in the service of god, will be at his feet and the shepards of his flock. I liked that image when I was growing up, and it always stayed with me...
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 03:59:41 AM by davidf » Logged
davidf
Gaming Trend Reader

Offline Offline

Posts: 79


View Profile
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2008, 10:54:27 PM »

Quote
Why they get out of jail free card for misdeeds?

This is a tough one to explain to non believers from my experince, mainly from the explantation can easily be warped to suit the end justifies the means from zelots claming to have "faith" or "born again"

Bottom line: we were given this life initially to live with God in Garden of Eden for preseumably eternity (though I've don't recall the original plan ever being defined, but easy to presume since the first generation of God's Children had massive life spans per bible refrences). When we turned away from him, we were given a chance and a choice to rejoin him again in enternal life, in the next life verse this one. We have a lifetime opprotunity to choose and God puts in our way several times during our life the chance to make a choice. In the end, if we don't, we seal our own fate. What that means depends on how literally you take certain passages of the bible and wether you believe in a God wanting us to be fearful.

 If anytime in that life we truely repent and truely turn our heart to God, we are welcomed into his Kingdom. If its not a true change of heart, or a begging based on fear rather than the realization we are wandering in darkness, lost, empty and we need help...well... they don't get to trick there way in. People of faith on the other hand, give these people the benifit of the doubt, we can't see their heart, but God can.  Still, we are still held accountable for our actions in this next life, but we are forgiven,  and at least we still get to the Kingdom and have everlasting life.

Sorry for the religous bent of the thread. I normally don't share this kind of information unless directly asked. Btw that is the real way to witness, people notice when someone is totally comfortable with themselves, life, and their faith...some people go door to door but the very best way is for someone to ask why are you so darn happy and content? I'm not activte in the church as much now as I've fallen away I suppose, but I'm still close to several poeple that I would consider a light in my life, that have faith. I would love to think maybe I'm that way for someone else. smile

I did some street witnessing as a kid in my church, but i now compare that to cold calling. Sure you can get people, but close others to you permanetly. Living the life and in faith everyday and everything you do as a  general rule is far more effective, on a mind to listening to the spirit as appropraite
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 10:58:06 PM by davidf » Logged
Blackadar
Gaming Trend Senior Member

Offline Offline

Posts: 3458



View Profile
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2008, 11:28:54 PM »

Quote from: davidf on January 25, 2008, 10:11:27 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on January 25, 2008, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: unbreakable on January 22, 2008, 12:41:22 AM

The second is related, in that you can essentially negate ALL the wrong you have done by saying you are sorry at the end of the game.  So in that respect, it actually BENEFITS you to lie, cheat, steal, rape, kill, whatever, live exactly counter to everything taught in the bible... and just apologize for it all on your deathbed.  You know, kind of like Pinochet or a thousand other examples.  Because obviously there's no separate reward system for those who do good all their lives, and those who do evil.  The only reason to do "good" is for insurance, in the event you die without being able to repent your sins... but really, the odds of that happening are pretty low.

So simply from a strategic outlook, Christianity gives extremely little incentive to be a good person.  I blame the prodigal son.

Actually, this is a pretty good point.  I understand why it's a major attraction for people to become Christian, but I think it's a crock of shit.  I've never seen this adequately explained...why the get out of jail free card for misdeeds?  It just seems like it encourages a lack of responsibility for your own actions.


If I recall correctly, anyone could ask for forgiveness and truely be repentent, asking for forgiveness just because you were afraid was not enough, but a real commitment to make you life for God, you would get a chance even if you only had a few seconds in this life left. This seems like the lobving God I grew up with that loved everyone and wanted you simply for you to rejoin him in the light, verse the path of darkness without hm that resolved in sin and drifting in darkness. However, for those that lived in his light (and no just on sundays and before you get on a flight) you have a special place at God's right hand. That your light in heaven and the new kingdom will be brighter and bigger. When I was a kid I always so that as the late comers could get it, but would be little more than misty ghosts, while those in the light will be at his feet and the shepards of his flock. I liked that image when I was going up, and always stayed with me

Fair enough and a good explanation.

What I can't stand about organized religion are the trappings of "exclusivity".  Pretty much they all say the same thing - if you don't believe in what we teach you, you're screwed.  I call it the exclusivity clause for obvious reasons.  It's a powerful way to entice new recruits and keep existing sheep within the flock, but it's also something I've always entirely rejected.  It seems an anathema to me - I 100% believe it doesn't work that way and those statements are the trappings of Man, not of God and I detest them because I think they're a perversion.  But those statements are so powerful, so absolute it keeps people in check by fear.

Logged

Raise the bridge! I have an erection!
Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.176 seconds with 102 queries. (Pretty URLs adds 0.035s, 2q)