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Author Topic: Today's political climate in a nutshell  (Read 777 times)
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Gratch
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« on: August 16, 2013, 01:13:28 PM »

Coalition of Tea Party groups tells Lamar Alexander (R-OK) to retire...or else

That's not necessarily news (ridiculous, but not terribly surprising), but what struck me was the comment they made:

Quote
“Unfortunately, our great nation can no longer afford compromise and bipartisanship, two traits for which you have become famous,” the letter reads.

And there it is, spelled out plain as day.  Screw compromise.  Screw working together for the common good.  Screw finding a middle ground.  Screw everything except doing things exactly how we demand, exactly when we want, and exactly the way we say.  Anything short of meeting our every demand is entirely unacceptable, and we will work tirelessly to ensure you are no longer in office if you that happens.

I realize that the Tea Party is the lunatic fringe of the right, but it seems to me that their hardline message is being embraced more and more by politicians on both sides.  Finding a solution is so far secondary to "winning" that it is putting us in a state of complete and utter paralysis when it comes to governing.
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th'FOOL
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« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2013, 01:27:42 PM »

It really bothers me because I feel that those two things are ESSENTIAL to govern.
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Mike Dunn
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« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2013, 02:25:16 PM »

I'm all for it if it means that some crazy loon gets the nomination instead. If enough of that happens then the Dems should have no problem beating enough Republicans that they can get a majority and actually get something done in congress. Compromise and bipartisanship would have been nice too but like that is ever going to happen lol!
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CeeKay
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« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2013, 02:41:24 PM »

somewhere Eco Logic's ignorantism sense is tingling slywink  (kidding, not calling anyone here ignorant except the Tea Party)

and now for the only acceptable lunatic fringe.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2013, 02:53:19 PM »

Not saying what we have right now is best, but giving either party complete control scares me.
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Gratch
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2013, 04:30:11 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on August 16, 2013, 02:53:19 PM

Not saying what we have right now is best, but giving either party complete control scares me.

Agreed
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Ironrod
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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2013, 05:18:20 PM »

Quote from: Canuck on August 16, 2013, 02:25:16 PM

I'm all for it if it means that some crazy loon gets the nomination instead. If enough of that happens then the Dems should have no problem beating enough Republicans that they can get a majority

Not so, at least until after the next census. Gerrymandering ensures that red districts will continue to elect Republicans no matter how extreme. The districts are deliberately drawn to prevent blue majorities, regardless of the overall population's bent. (Democrats have done this in blue states as well.)

The Republican Party is a regional bloc whose role will always be the spoiler -- unless the party can rein in or jettison the tea party fringe, which is exactly the opposite of what's actually happening.
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2013, 02:42:11 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on August 16, 2013, 01:13:28 PM

I realize that the Tea Party is the lunatic fringe of the right, but it seems to me that their hardline message is being embraced more and more by politicians on both sides.


In a Pew Research Poll released just two weeks ago, 49% of likely Republican primary voters reported that they agree with the Tea Party's tactics and goals.  Note that that would include their enduring calls for a full government shutdown to oppose the Affordable Healthcare Act, cutting off Social Security checks, federal law enforcement operations, and the military paychecks...including for active duty soldiers.

I would humbly submit that if the "fringe" on your rug comprised half of the whole thing, it isn't a fringe.  It's just a tangle of rags.

-Autistic Angel
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2013, 09:06:40 PM »

Quote
cutting off Social Security checks, federal law enforcement operations, and the military paychecks...including for active duty soldiers.

 icon_eek   What?!   So security home and abroad, as well as financial security of our elderly aren't worth supporting?   I'd LOVE to hear some reasoning behind that....
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« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2013, 02:40:23 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on August 17, 2013, 09:06:40 PM

Quote
cutting off Social Security checks, federal law enforcement operations, and the military paychecks...including for active duty soldiers.

 icon_eek   What?!   So security home and abroad, as well as financial security of our elderly aren't worth supporting?   I'd LOVE to hear some reasoning behind that....

Reason is not the basis for that point of view.  Unfortunately a lot of this is founded in prejudice. I was proud of the fact that our voters could break the race barrier and vote a minority into the white house.  I am equally embarrassed for our nation at how some elements of our society have reacted to that majority decision.    There is so much of the right that are hateful of Obama and while most of them will not admit it, a lot of that is simply because he is black. Those people would rather see this country burn than endure his term in office. Just when you think our country has matured and grown beyond such sick and petty mind sets, stuff like this comes out to show us that for some we are still stuck in the 1950's. 
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Autistic Angel
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« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2013, 02:45:20 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on August 17, 2013, 09:06:40 PM

Quote
cutting off Social Security checks, federal law enforcement operations, and the military paychecks...including for active duty soldiers.

 icon_eek   What?!   So security home and abroad, as well as financial security of our elderly aren't worth supporting?   I'd LOVE to hear some reasoning behind that....


I think the "reasoning" employed is the same as we saw when congressional Republicans threatened to default on the national debt during the last Debt Ceiling crisis, or when they decided to let Sequestration stay in effect.  They don't believe the consequences exist, and whenever there's coverage about the fact they actually do (higher interest rates on the national debt; shutting down cancer care centers) they simply blame Barack Obama.

As far as why Republican lawmakers are facing so much anger from their own constituents pushing for the shutdown:

Quote from: Salon.com
And, as ThinkProgress pointed out, Rep. Aaron Schock responded to a remark by an Illinois constituent that Schock risks “alienating the people who brought you to power in 2010, the conservative voters who caused that landslide are going to react unless you take a strong principled position on this.” Schock said that he thinks Obamacare is “supremely flawed,” but also opposes shutting down the government.

“How many weeks would you go without paying Social Security, and how many weeks would you go without paying the troops?” Schock asked. “And having a young lady walk into my office, whose husband is over in Afghanistan, who can’t pay her mortgage because I’m shutting the government down because I don’t like a health care law? … I’m just suggesting that when you get into a fight, politically, you gotta make sure you’re willing to kill the hostage you got. And I am not convinced yet that that’s a hostage that we should take headed into this fight.”


The voters that man is talking to have been warned for years by their media outlets and their elected representatives -- including him! -- that the Affordable Healthcare Act is going to destroy the economy.  Now they really, truly believe it, and they are *terrified* this law is going to turn America into communist Chinese Greekistan unless the Tea Party caucus lines up shoulder-to-shoulder with Rand Paul in a metaphorical firing line.

Quote from: Buzzfeed.com
Oklahoma Rep. Tom Cole, a Republican deputy majority whip, was confronted at a town hall Tuesday for his decision to not support a vote that aimed to shut down the federal government unless ObamaCare is defunded. Cole spoke with constituents for three hours at Moore Public Library in Moore, Oklahoma.

“I was a little concerned to find out your were not in support of making the continuing resolution contingent on removing what optional spending you can remove on ObamaCare. I feel very strongly, I think others do,” the constituent questioning Cole said to applause from the audience. “This is not theatrical for me because two weeks today my husband and I paid, in cash, for our son to have major surgery, for our procedure. But you know what? That’s a price I paid for the liberty of my children.”

“Even if you do not believe in your heart, number one, that it will pass, or number two, it’s appropriate. You need to represent us,” the questioner added.

Cole said he “absolutely” wanted to defund ObamaCare, adding he “voted 40 times to repeal it,” but said the consequences of a government shutdown strategy would be disastrous to audible boos.


Emphasis mine.

I don't know what that woman considers "major surgery," but the out-of-pocket cost for an uninsured person to have their appendix removed would average about $33,000.  In her mind, that's a small price to pay for liberty.

-Autistic Angel
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Ironrod
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« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2013, 05:28:22 PM »

Quote from: Autistic Angel on August 18, 2013, 02:45:20 PM


The voters that man is talking to have been warned for years by their media outlets and their elected representatives -- including him! -- that the Affordable Healthcare Act is going to destroy the economy.  Now they really, truly believe it, and they are *terrified* this law is going to turn America into communist Chinese Greekistan unless the Tea Party caucus lines up shoulder-to-shoulder with Rand Paul in a metaphorical firing line.

"We had to destroy the village in order to save it."
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2013, 09:33:09 PM »

I just can't wrap my head around not helping the poor, indigent, and needy.  I don't identify as "Christian" anymore, but I believe that doing those things is simply the human thing to do.  Cut my own throat with it?  Absolutely not.  Pick up a bunch of extra can goods and donate them to a soup kitchen?  Absolutely.  Health care though?  That's on a whole different level....
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