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Author Topic: anyone watching the VP debate right now!  (Read 4415 times)
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papasmurff
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« on: October 03, 2008, 01:09:06 AM »

Just curious...I am watching and might be tempted to post comments along the way.  My first comment is wtf is the heart monitor doing on CNN

Only a few min in and Palin is already saying "joe 6 pacK"--this could be a long night
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 01:11:10 AM by papasmurff » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 01:18:26 AM »

I don't think she fits in the middle class of amercia???  I mean maybe she does but I want to know what she considers the middle class!

saying that she has only been on the job for 5 weeks was a dip in her popularity.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 01:25:25 AM by papasmurff » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 01:30:38 AM »

hmm.......Palin is dodging more than Biden.  I mean he isn't doing too great at sticking to the questions....but she just wants to talk about energy....it doesn't matter what the question is.
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 01:35:21 AM »

This is bad.  They are both bad.

gellar
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papasmurff
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 01:36:40 AM »

yeah .....they are

we should take a poll.  Who has a worse accent?  Palin or Bush
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 01:50:36 AM by papasmurff » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 02:18:16 AM »

Quote from: papasmurff on October 03, 2008, 01:36:40 AM

yeah .....they are

we should take a poll.  Who has a worse accent?  Palin or Bush
I don't doubt that Palin's is real, so the man from Connecticut, Bush, wins.
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 02:37:23 AM »

Were you aware that McCain is a maverick?  I had no idea...
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Jeff
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 02:48:26 AM »

Palin's voice makes me want to shove ice picks in my ears. And when she did that left-eye wink into the camera, i think I threw up a little bit in my mouth.

I thought Biden was far superior, but that's as it should be, he's far more experienced. Biden did a very good job pointing out the specifics of their differences, and he also corrected her about a dozen times on her 'facts'. He also embarrassed her at least 4 times, by pointing out that McCain voted the same way as Obama after her chiding Obama on a certain vote.

Her pointing out that she's "new at this", and that she's got "5 weeks experience" was stupid, and I'd count that as a major gaffe. So do we want someone with 5 weeks experience running the country if it came to that?

She didn't freeze up, I'll give her that, but her workaround against freezing up was simply to not answer the question at hand and simply talk about whatever it was she had rehearsed. I'm sure she appealed to those who already liked her anyway, but to me she came across as clueless, only good at one thing -- rehearsed answers.

One of Biden's best moments, and I think a very clear point in his favor, was his extremely directly answer on Iraq - and she clearly stated her side had no out plan. The American people have spoken on that issue, and Biden scored big on that point.

And yeah, I wish I had a nickel for every time she said 'maverick'.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 03:01:18 AM »

I thought she was absolutely horrible, but the media seems to be gushing over her performance. My God what has this country come to? What has my party come to? People thought that pre-packaged nonsense, keyword skewing, and question-dodging constituted good debating?
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 03:09:46 AM »

did anyone in the crowd yell 'SHOW US YOUR TITS!'?
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 03:37:33 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on October 03, 2008, 03:09:46 AM

did anyone in the crowd yell 'SHOW US YOUR TITS!'?

Palin did, and I complied.
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 04:05:48 AM »

Every time she'd flat out ignore a question that was asked and return to some sound bite, pre-programmed talking point that was marginally (at best) related to the question... ugh...

I thought Biden clearly had the upper hand  once the debate got past the initial bits that Palin had good canned answers for.  He did a much better job of answering the question that was asked, of answering it with specific examples, citing his or Obama's experience in doing so, and in seeming as if he was thinking about the question and his response to it and then talking about it naturally, in contrast with Palin's responses which, on or off topic, seemed totally rehearsed, and coached... she never got off of her notes.  I think the 'aw shucks' routine will hurt her.

I know you hate Biden, gellar, but I disagree completely that he was 'bad'.

Oh, and I was very, very happy to see him talk strongly about Darfur.  I'm pretty sure Palin couldn't find it on a map... or even tell you which continent it was on.  Or what a continent is.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 04:08:32 AM by kratz » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 05:22:27 AM »

Quote from: kratz on October 03, 2008, 04:05:48 AM

I know you hate Biden, gellar, but I disagree completely that he was 'bad'.

I don't hate Biden.  I hate Biden's political stances.  Actually, I specifically hate his political stances on technology, internet, and internet security (as this is my professional field, I obviously hold this area close to heart). 

I actually admire Biden's demeanor.  Generally, he comes off as confident, intelligent, and a dickhead.  I like all of those things.

Sadly he didn't project those tonight, in my opinion.  In a night where he should have shone next to the obviously mentally inferior opposition, he merely passed.  It just wasn't a convincing enough a win for me.  I suppose that's unfair judgement, in that it would have been nearly impossible for him to live up to my expectation of demolishing Palin, but it's my judgement nonetheless.

Also, as discussed/argued in IRC, I very much did not like how he upheld the marriage/religion tie.

gellar
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« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2008, 05:23:19 AM »

Oh and my 'bad' comment came about halfway through the debate.  He came on much stronger in the 2nd half (the parts I stuck around for).  He wasn't bad... just average.  Maybe even slightly above average.  He was nowhere remotely close to excellent.

gellar
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« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2008, 01:04:04 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 03, 2008, 02:48:26 AM

Her pointing out that she's "new at this", and that she's got "5 weeks experience" was stupid, and I'd count that as a major gaffe. So do we want someone with 5 weeks experience running the country if it came to that?

I agree.  That was the only cringe worthy moment in the debate in my view.  It's like sitting on a plane getting ready to take off and the pilot comes over the PA and says, "Well I'm new at this whole pilot thing but let's see how it goes." Where do I get off?

All in all Palin did better than I expected.  Biden did exactly as I expected.  This debate will be forgotten within a week or two. 

I tuned in expecting a 56-49 shootout and ended up getting a 14-10 game that was decided in the 3rd quarter.
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Brendan
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« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2008, 01:29:02 PM »

As far as flubs go, she went for the opposite of official McCain policy a number of times - but I suspect people don't actually expect her to know what she's talking about, so there'll be no real fallout.  It's still nice to read things like "The McCain campaign confirms to ABC News that Palin misstated McCain's position" in the press.

Also, there was this hilarious segment of one of the Palin surrogates (Senator Kit Bond) refusing to defend Palin's nonsense about the role of the VP.
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« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2008, 02:19:51 PM »

Quote
Every time she'd flat out ignore a question that was asked and return to some sound bite, pre-programmed talking point that was marginally (at best) related to the question... ugh...

That's exactly what I was thinking. She spent the week "preparing" for the debate so you know she was getting everything drilled into her head on what to say.

At least she changed her position (somewhat) on global warming. She used to call it a farce and it wasn't man-made but now she's learning to accept reality a little better.

I was already 80/20 on who I wanted to vote for, but Biden's "We'll bring this war to an end, with McCain there's no end in sight" comment pretty much nailed any doubt I had about them.

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« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2008, 03:11:34 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on October 03, 2008, 01:04:04 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 03, 2008, 02:48:26 AM

Her pointing out that she's "new at this", and that she's got "5 weeks experience" was stupid, and I'd count that as a major gaffe. So do we want someone with 5 weeks experience running the country if it came to that?
That was the only cringe worthy moment in the debate in my view. 

"Oh, yeah, it's so obvious I'm a Washington outsider."

Puke.

What's next, going to tell us how big your dick is?
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2008, 03:18:21 PM »

Quote from: papasmurff on October 03, 2008, 01:36:40 AM

yeah .....they are

we should take a poll.  Who has a worse accent?  Palin or Bush

She says "nukular". What is it with politicians who can't say "nuclear"? That dates back at least to Jimmy Carter, and he was a nukular engineer.

Apart from that, Palin did quite well. She came off as a perky, folksy, friendly, completely average god-and-country American mom. She can ignore questions with impunity because nobody wants to be mean to her. She has got really strong branding going for her. McCain's going to lose this election thanks to the economy, but Palin is not going to disappear quietly back to Alaska. She's on the national stage to stay.

Biden's grasp of the issues is obviously superior, but that's just boring.
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2008, 03:31:14 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on October 03, 2008, 03:18:21 PM

She's on the national stage to stay.

I don't see it.  In what role?  Representative?  Senator?  Future Presidential candidate?  You think she has the credibility for any of those?  Alaska has a single member of the house of representatives, and it's about to elect a democrat.  Similarly, they're going to replace corrupt Ted Stevens with democrat Mark Begich this year.  Murkowski's in there until 2010, so Palin wouldn't even be able to run for the senate for another 2 years, and it's not exactly kosher to attempt to unseat the remaining republican senator in a primary.
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2008, 03:33:34 PM »

If Palin is on the national stage to stay then it will be to star in Greek tragedy.  God help us if she is the "future" of her party.
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2008, 03:52:35 PM »

If you want to read this fiasco you can do that here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

MAVERICK!
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2008, 04:04:35 PM »

Thanks to noun, you can see that it is spelled MAVRIK.  You damn socialest.

http://www.photobasement.com/these-seem-like-typical-mccain-supporters/
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2008, 04:15:59 PM »

I think the quote of the night has to be:

"In those arenas, John McCain has already tapped me and said, that's where I want you."   eek
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2008, 04:29:39 PM »

I thought it was Senator O'Biden and Drill, baby, Drill!
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2008, 04:42:44 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 03, 2008, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on October 03, 2008, 03:18:21 PM

She's on the national stage to stay.

I don't see it.  In what role?  Representative?  Senator?  Future Presidential candidate?  You think she has the credibility for any of those?  Alaska has a single member of the house of representatives, and it's about to elect a democrat.  Similarly, they're going to replace corrupt Ted Stevens with democrat Mark Begich this year.  Murkowski's in there until 2010, so Palin wouldn't even be able to run for the senate for another 2 years, and it's not exactly kosher to attempt to unseat the remaining republican senator in a primary.

Maybe she'll move to New York and run for the Senate.  icon_wink
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2008, 04:44:05 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on October 03, 2008, 01:04:04 PM

I agree.  That was the only cringe worthy moment in the debate in my view. 

I thought other cringe-worthy moments were when she said

* "I may not give the answers you or Gwen want to hear, but ya, I'm just gonna go ahead and speak straight to the American people" - jesus, wtf... this is nothing more than saying "I may not answer the question at hand, but instead I'll just say some cute, kitschy, bullshit that I think Americans want to hear". Play by the rules, woman, this isn't a fucking used car lot. And btw, the point of a nationally televised debate IS to speak directly to the American people, so no need to restate the obvious.

* When she winked at the camera.

* Calling McCain (and frequently herself) a 'maverick' about 976 times.

* "Joe six-pack, hockey mom, Main Street" blah blah blah.

* "Her reward is up in heaven!" - referring to Biden's wife being a teacher for 30 years. puke city.

* aw shucks, Joe, ya said ya wouldn't look backwards now din't 'cha? tsk c'mon Joe let's not look at that bad ol' Bush administration'

Another point where Biden scored big, that I forgot to mention earlier, was his hammering home the fact that McCain = GW Bush. He stated loud & clear that McCain has no appreciable differences in policy than Bush, and what stunned me is that Palin did absolutely nothing to counter this, save for chiding Biden on "looking backwards". 10 points for Biden.  She really didn't want the Bush Administration brought up. No wonder, talk about a sore spot, and point of weakness.

It just comes across as extremely weak for her to make claims that McCain would be bringing in radical changes. I could do nothing but yelp "bullshit".



« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 04:47:06 PM by Jeff Jones » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2008, 05:31:31 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 03, 2008, 03:31:14 PM

Quote from: Ironrod on October 03, 2008, 03:18:21 PM

She's on the national stage to stay.

I don't see it.  In what role?  Representative?  Senator?  Future Presidential candidate? 

Cheerleader. Srsly. Her charisma and popularity make her valuable to the Rep party, and they know it.
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2008, 05:35:41 PM »

So, stir-up-the-base fundraiser - and presumably she keeps her day job as AK gov?  Sure, that seems likely.  I don't think that means she'll see any national airtime though, as it's not sufficiently important to deserve coverage; those of us who don't attend $1,000-a-plate dinners probably won't hear about her unless she makes the news for Troopergate...
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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2008, 06:04:00 PM »

Palin needs to wear a shorter skirt
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« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2008, 06:16:16 PM »

Quote from: PaulBot on October 03, 2008, 06:04:00 PM

Palin needs to wear a shorter skirt

And a muzzle.
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« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2008, 06:59:15 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on October 03, 2008, 05:31:31 PM


Cheerleader. Srsly. Her charisma and popularity make her valuable to the Rep party, and they know it.

I strongly disagree with you. Cheeba even said "she stunk" in the Couric interview. YK wants to know wtf is going on with his party, and that she was "absolutely horrible" in the debate. Sure, just two examples, but I think she's turning off a great deal of Republicans, and her ratings are sliding fast. I think pretty much all but the most radical, Jesus-lovin' uber-conservatives are wondering what the hell McCain was thinking. Watch now as Obama's lead widens.

If her charm & charisma were of great value to the party, where are her interviews? Instead they've been hiding her.
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« Reply #32 on: October 03, 2008, 07:25:13 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on October 03, 2008, 05:35:41 PM

So, stir-up-the-base fundraiser - and presumably she keeps her day job as AK gov?  Sure, that seems likely.  I don't think that means she'll see any national airtime though, as it's not sufficiently important to deserve coverage; those of us who don't attend $1,000-a-plate dinners probably won't hear about her unless she makes the news for Troopergate...

Yeah, that's what I have in mind, but she'll become nationally prominent every four years. Maybe she'll even evolve into a kingmaker. I would not rule out some cabinet post in a future Rep administration, either -- energy or interior, maybe. She is young.

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 03, 2008, 06:59:15 PM

If her charm & charisma were of great value to the party, where are her interviews? Instead they've been hiding her.

She is no good off-script. But we saw last night that she's quite good at deflecting questions and getting back to her script. She is still new at this, but she's ambitious and clever. She will learn and improve.

Most important, she introduces a new model for conservative women -- feminism without liberalism. She represents a whole new path.
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« Reply #33 on: October 03, 2008, 07:26:46 PM »

I don't know a single Republican (and I know a hell of a lot of them) that is "enthused" about Palin. Supportive of her? Yes, because she's on the Republican ticket. But their support when I talk to them seems rather tepid.

For instance, my stepdad, who is as hardcore conservative and evangelical as it comes, tends to condition every positive statement about Palin with "but I still think he should have picked Romney." One of my co-workers, who is a rabid Republican and even has a picture of McCain/Palin in his office, was talking to me about the debates today. I asked him what he thought, and he sighed, "Palin did what she needed to do." That was about as far as he was willing to take it.

Now I know personal anecdotes don't constitute nationwide trends. But I've lived and worked with Republicans ever since I can remember, and their support for the ticket this year is definitely what I'd describe as "lackluster." Most of them seem to be voting against Obama rather than for McCain. I don't know if it's a statement about McCain, a statement about Palin, a statement about the last eight years, or some fear of inevitability that they're going to lose this year. Maybe some combination of all of the above.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2008, 07:28:42 PM by YellowKing » Logged
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« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2008, 07:42:37 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 03, 2008, 04:44:05 PM

* When she winked at the camera.

* Calling McCain (and frequently herself) a 'maverick' about 976 times.

* "Joe six-pack, hockey mom, Main Street" blah blah blah.

* "Her reward is up in heaven!" - referring to Biden's wife being a teacher for 30 years. puke city.

* aw shucks, Joe, ya said ya wouldn't look backwards now din't 'cha? tsk c'mon Joe let's not look at that bad ol' Bush administration'
1. Actually, that was kinda hot.
2. The total count was 6. (Biden had 9 in his McCain isn't a maverick in the shit that matters rebuttal)
3. Joe Six Pack came up once, so did hockey mom (in the form of referencing all hockey moms), Main Street was 3.
4. When she said that, immediately thought of the Simpson's.  "She's shooting angles in heaven now boy"
5. That line caused my bowels to evacuate.
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« Reply #35 on: October 03, 2008, 10:05:37 PM »

Very political.  Duh. 


Factual?  Not so much.  She made at least 2 statements in error and he made some 14. 


Errors?  Lies?  Either way, both did their share of politicizing answers to impress instead of telling the truth.


But quite frankly, I trust her more.  Can't say why really.  Just a gut feeling.


The debate was a waste of time for me because it in no way was gonna change my vote, but it was interesting to see if either would disentergrate.  Neither did.
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« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2008, 10:48:55 PM »

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« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2008, 11:06:25 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on October 03, 2008, 10:48:55 PM



Shouldn't there be a place on there where she hikes her skirt up a bit to distract the audience?
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« Reply #38 on: October 04, 2008, 01:07:55 AM »

Quote from: mikeg on October 03, 2008, 10:05:37 PM



But quite frankly, I trust her more.  Can't say why really.  Just a gut feeling.


I have trouble trusting someone who takes a job they are way over their head in and then tries to fudge their way through it. Trust would come if Palin was willing to just say "I don't know" in response to questions instead of lying or trying to bullshit her way out. If she then came back a week later and had done her homework and knew what she should, trust would also come with respect. As it stands she's got neither from me.
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« Reply #39 on: October 04, 2008, 04:36:26 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on October 03, 2008, 03:52:35 PM

If you want to read this fiasco you can do that here:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

MAVERICK!

I am frankly stunned that no one I've seen anywhere has started referring to her as "Goose". This is a collective EPIC FAIL of the Interwebs.
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