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Author Topic: An ethical man for president  (Read 1625 times)
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Razgon
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« on: November 03, 2008, 11:55:02 AM »

So, with all the ruckus about the upcoming election in the US, I was thinking about the various differences between the two runner-ups, as seen from over here in Denmark.

Whilst I am blisfully unaware about the top issues, it seems to me, that Obama is the ethical Hero kinda-guy who is a nice fella, while Mccain represents the more no-nonsense business part of running a country, and generally being(or rather, being ABLE to be) an unpleasant kinda guy...

Thus, I guess the question is, do you want a president who makes ethical and good-guy kinda decisions, or a president who is able to make the hard choices, and sacrifice some for "the greater good"...

oh, and apologies for the GROSS oversimplification above, I realize its not that black and white, but only apperances...

EDIT: The question was general, and has no bearing on the actual presidency in the US...just in general, what kind of leader would you want
« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 12:45:28 PM by Razgon » Logged

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Crux
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« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 12:48:30 PM »

Thing about it is, Obama has shown himself to be far better organized and effective at running a campaign. So I'm not sure your characterization of the two is even close to being accurate. It's more like James Bond vs Dr. Evil. But instead of sharks with frickin "lasers" attached to their heads, Dr. Evil has a bumbling semi-retarded sidekick named Palin.
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Jeff
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« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 02:13:07 PM »

Quote from: Crux on November 03, 2008, 12:48:30 PM

Dr. Evil has a bumbling semi-retarded sidekick named Palin.

Whom his aides have been trying to "shhh!" for weeks now.



Palin costing McCain, poll suggests

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Jaddison
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« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 03:31:17 PM »

You mean the Obama who made the decisions and strategy that beat the Clinton machine.  The man who has so far remained unfazed by the culture war tactics of his opponent vs the guy who whines quite a bit, never seems to have an organized response to a crisis (fire the head of the SEC damn it!) and tries to throw any crap he can find out there to see if it sticks?

Hmmmm, now who would you want make important decisions for the country?
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Ironrod
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 04:29:18 PM »

In general -- leaving these two individuals out of it -- I would prefer a pragmatist to an idealist.

In the context of this election, I think Obama is much more pragmatic than the image that he successful projects. And McCain lost my support when he chose Palin, thereby embracing a form of idealism that is completely opposite my own.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 05:36:28 PM »

To consider either of these idiots ethical in any way is utter insanity.
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Razgon
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 05:40:27 PM »

after all these years of forum going, one would think I'd be able to express myself more clearly..  Roll Eyes

the question was.... Which kind of leader would you want, the good-guy who is trying to do the right thing, or the guy you know is able to sacrifice people for "the greater good"... you know what I mean, even if its very black and white

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Blackadar
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 05:57:39 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on November 03, 2008, 05:40:27 PM

after all these years of forum going, one would think I'd be able to express myself more clearly..  Roll Eyes

the question was.... Which kind of leader would you want, the good-guy who is trying to do the right thing, or the guy you know is able to sacrifice people for "the greater good"... you know what I mean, even if its very black and white



I think you need a good mixture of both to be a truly effective leader.  I'd like the guy with good intentions - at least you know where he stands - but effective leadership requires sacrifice as well.  Triage is a necessary fact of life.

Two of our most "idealistic" Presidents have been the least effective in the last 50 years - Carter and GWB.  Both are idealists (though I disagree with Bush's ideals themselves) and their unwillingness to compromise nor (especially in GWB's case) consider the greater good made their terms disasterous.  Pragmatic Presidents like Clinton and Nixon were considerably more effective Presidents, but you can see how that trait may have affected their judgement in negative ways.

My problem with McCain - all along - is that he's demonstrated far too much of that pragmatist side and sold out his stated principals from 2000 in order to get the nomination.  That's a very dangerous thing, because it becomes very hard to judge what his true principals are and how he'd react in a crisis.  Obama, on the other hand, will need to ensure he listens to his pragmatic side because if he's too much of an idealist, he probably won't be effective.  The best Presidents in recent history (Reagan, Truman) were both idealistic and pragmatic.
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YellowKing
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« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 09:12:39 PM »

Well said, Blackadar. I agree.

As has already been pointed out, the way these campaigns have been run tell me a lot about each candidate's leadership style. Obama has remained consistently calm, on course, and focused - and he's a master of preparation and anticipating his opponent's next move. McCain, on the other hand, has proven to be easily persuaded, impulsive, and takes a shotgun approach - fire shots everywhere and hope something hits.

While Obama clearly has less political experience, he has trounced one of the most powerful campaign machines in history in Hillary Clinton, and is poised to trounce McCain, a 30-year veteran of the DC machine. This tells me the guy is extremely intelligent, knows how to surround himself with the right people, and understands how to inspire people to work for him.

A lot of my Republican friends like to poo-poo Obama as being some pie-in-the-sky dreamer who is a great speaker but little else. However, his campaign thus far tells a completely different story.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 09:36:56 PM »

Quote from: YellowKing on November 03, 2008, 09:12:39 PM

Well said, Blackadar. I agree.

As has already been pointed out, the way these campaigns have been run tell me a lot about each candidate's leadership style. Obama has remained consistently calm, on course, and focused - and he's a master of preparation and anticipating his opponent's next move. McCain, on the other hand, has proven to be easily persuaded, impulsive, and takes a shotgun approach - fire shots everywhere and hope something hits.

While Obama clearly has less political experience, he has trounced one of the most powerful campaign machines in history in Hillary Clinton, and is poised to trounce McCain, a 30-year veteran of the DC machine. This tells me the guy is extremely intelligent, knows how to surround himself with the right people, and understands how to inspire people to work for him.

A lot of my Republican friends like to poo-poo Obama as being some pie-in-the-sky dreamer who is a great speaker but little else. However, his campaign thus far tells a completely different story.

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said above.  I think Obama's election campaign will go down as one of the greatest political campaigns in history.  I hope it bodes well for his administration.
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PaulBot
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2008, 08:45:00 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on November 03, 2008, 05:36:28 PM

To consider either of these idiots ethical in any way is utter insanity.

+100
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Razgon
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2008, 10:47:28 PM »

Quote from: PaulBot on November 04, 2008, 08:45:00 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on November 03, 2008, 05:36:28 PM

To consider either of these idiots ethical in any way is utter insanity.

+100

there's a rather large difference between having ethics and morality...anyways, once again, the question wasnt aimed at the two current runner-ups...
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