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Author Topic: A financial S storm is brewing. Fannie/Freddie seized.  (Read 8822 times)
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Caine
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« on: September 08, 2008, 07:31:53 PM »

Both companies seized  their stock is shooting down like a cliff face on a san diego coastline.

is this one more sign of the new depression?  not to get too political, but which one has anything concrete to get us out of this mess?  or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

:|

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rickfc
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« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2008, 07:34:33 PM »

I don't know if either candidate has a plan to get the country out of the mess, but both came out after the news broke saying that it was necessary and long overdue.
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« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM »

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.
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gellar
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« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM »

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar
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pr0ner
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« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM »

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1
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Moliere
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« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2008, 08:24:33 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1

yeah
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Jeff
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM »

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.
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leo8877
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« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2008, 08:56:37 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:24:33 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1

yeah

Ding
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Moliere
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« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2008, 08:59:51 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.

Sure you will Alec Baldwin. You and all the rest of the people who promise to leave if their candidate doesn't get elected.
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Geezer
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« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2008, 09:00:58 PM »

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

You own your place, right?  Just assume what you are actually paying for is insurance on the value of your property.

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CeeKay
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« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2008, 09:02:09 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on September 08, 2008, 08:56:37 PM

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:24:33 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1

yeah

Ding

Werd.
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rickfc
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2008, 09:05:18 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 08, 2008, 09:02:09 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on September 08, 2008, 08:56:37 PM

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:24:33 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1

yeah

Ding

Werd.

uh huh
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Doopri
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2008, 09:17:42 PM »

Quote
You own your place, right?  Just assume what you are actually paying for is insurance on the value of your property.

i like this! hehehe

and im also glad there is a fannie and freddy - before blowing up they actually did a lot to keep mortgage rates down (banks would price in a MUCH higher risk premium if they had to assume all the risk on everyone out there who buys a home)
its sucks that they have to be bailed out, but the alternatives get a bit nasty, especially at times like these

and keep in mind the bailout occurred months ago - the govt is now basically taking them into receivership to make sure that money isnt frittered by a management thats proved itself pretty damn irresponsible and incompetent
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hepcat
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2008, 09:34:41 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:59:51 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.

Sure you will Alec Baldwin. You and all the rest of the people who promise to leave if their candidate doesn't get elected.

seriously??? Alec Baldwin posts on this site???

Mr. Baldwin, I'm a huge fan...but I have to ask...have you ever met a sandwich you COULDN'T eat?
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gellar
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2008, 09:42:13 PM »

Quote from: Geezer on September 08, 2008, 09:00:58 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

You own your place, right?  Just assume what you are actually paying for is insurance on the value of your property.



I don't actually, I'm not comfortable with the mortgage required for me to buy a place I want. smile

gellar
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Caine
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« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2008, 09:53:46 PM »

how many posts did this take to migrate over to r&p?  i'm giddy, it's my first thread here, even though by proxy. 

so, aside from the stock sale on these two, it looked like the market approved of it and had a good jump.  not a good time to have any stock in either of those two.  hope noone here got burned too badly. 

long term, let's all hope for some stability now.
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Doopri
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« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2008, 10:32:04 PM »

Quote
long term, let's all hope for some stability now.

caine there is some indication that at least the growth of the problem may have stemmed (i know thats a lot of conditionals, but fingers crossed right?).  whether thats a short term abberation or at least the basin of the valley is yet to be seen
hopefully inflationary pressure doesnt start to make some of those people who are right on the cusp of deciding between food and mortgage actually have to make that decision
also some are anticipating a new round of revaluations at certain investment banks - hopefully thats already priced in and it ends up being better than expected because that could be another bad day


oh and welcome to your very own first r&p thread - let me conduct your full initiation by calling you an intellectually dishonest idiot! smile  consider that your hazing - dont worry we all had to go through it - now someone hand me the cattle prod okay? smile
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Geezer
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« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2008, 10:43:22 PM »

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 09:42:13 PM

Quote from: Geezer on September 08, 2008, 09:00:58 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

You own your place, right?  Just assume what you are actually paying for is insurance on the value of your property.



I don't actually, I'm not comfortable with the mortgage required for me to buy a place I want. smile

gellar

Heh.  Bet you will be soon enough. 
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Jeff
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« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2008, 01:13:56 AM »

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:59:51 PM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.

Sure you will Alec Baldwin. You and all the rest of the people who promise to leave if their candidate doesn't get elected.

You're right of course, but damn - I can only take so much of this neocon garbage. Has this nation officially gone insane?
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kathode
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« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2008, 01:29:46 AM »

It sucks that it had to happen and that taxpayers have to foot the bill, but it did have to happen.  Should the bottom fall out of the US real estate market, we are all globally fucked.  Without Freddie and Fannie keeping the market liquid all the underpinnings start to come out.  You've got mountains of bad debt building up and making these bedrock financial institutions insolvent.  There's just a staggering amount of the wealth of the world tied up in real estate.  Think about what it says about the dollar bills in your pocket when people's homes that should be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars are suddenly worth next to nothing.  That's an inflationary situation that would make the Great Depression seem like a picnic.  I don't think there was a scenario where doing nothing was going to end well, not that this is guaranteed to end well.  But yeah, you can trace it back to the whole "irrational exuberance" of the real estate boom and people lending and allowing themselves to be lended to in ridiculous situations that were only feasible if ridiculous growth continued forever.
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msduncan
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« Reply #20 on: September 09, 2008, 03:07:40 AM »

Quote from: rickfc on September 08, 2008, 09:05:18 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on September 08, 2008, 09:02:09 PM

Quote from: leo8877 on September 08, 2008, 08:56:37 PM

Quote from: Moliere on September 08, 2008, 08:24:33 PM

Quote from: pr0ner on September 08, 2008, 08:01:53 PM

Quote from: gellar on September 08, 2008, 07:59:31 PM

Quote from: Laner on September 08, 2008, 07:54:36 PM

I'm just irritated that my tax dollars are paying for greedy lenders and ignorant buyers.

What he said.

gellar

+1

yeah

Ding

Werd.

uh huh

Bingo
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msduncan
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« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2008, 03:08:25 AM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.

Way to go Captain Overreact!
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Jeff
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« Reply #22 on: September 09, 2008, 03:30:19 AM »

Quote from: msduncan on September 09, 2008, 03:08:25 AM

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 08, 2008, 08:53:44 PM

Quote
or should we all start looking for housing in canada?

If Sarah Palin ever becomes VP of this country, I'll be doing that anyway. The thought of her succeeding a dead-in-office McCain scares me.

Way to go Captain Overreact!

If I can withstand 8 years of the worst president in the history of the United States, I suppose I can withstand 4 years of stupidest VP choice in the history of the United States.

Bush has lead us into America's Dark Ages, and McCain & Palin is simply a continuation down that dreadful path.
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cheeba
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« Reply #23 on: September 09, 2008, 05:04:24 AM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 09, 2008, 03:30:19 AM

Bush has lead us into America's Dark Ages, and McCain & Palin is simply a continuation down that dreadful path.
Over-dramatize much?
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« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2008, 01:35:55 PM »

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Has this nation officially gone insane?
Yes.  More and more proof of it every day.
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Jeff
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« Reply #25 on: September 09, 2008, 03:10:25 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 09, 2008, 01:35:55 PM

Quote
Has this nation officially gone insane?
Yes.  More and more proof of it every day.

Yep. Bush gets elected twice (wtf?), gets a 20% approval rating, and called by many political analysts as arguably the worst president we've ever had, and now his carbon copies (Palin is arguably worse) are running neck & neck with Obama in polls.

Theocracy here we come!

If I'm not mistaken, this woman believes the earth is 6000 years old, that U.S. troops in Iraq are "on a mission from God", and given that McCain is 73 years old, may soon be the leader of the free world.  retard
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« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2008, 03:25:02 PM »

cries of "theocracy!" should be the new Godwin's law.  Seriously, get a grip.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2008, 04:07:47 PM »

Again anyone who calls bush the worst president in US history has zero sense or knowledge about the history of america and shouldnt be commenting on the subject.
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« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2008, 04:29:22 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 09, 2008, 03:10:25 PM

Yep. Bush gets elected twice (wtf?), gets a 20% approval rating, and called by many political analysts as arguably the worst president we've ever had, and now his carbon copies (Palin is arguably worse) are running neck & neck with Obama in polls.
Yeah, imagine that. There are people out there who actually think differently than you do!
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Your link doesn't work, but if you really want to bitch about candidates with crazy pastors, there's one on the democrat side who was actually an adviser to the campaign slywink.
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McCain is 73 years old
72
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« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2008, 04:31:23 PM »

and anyone who thinks W. isn't in at least in the running for worst of all time probably has blinders on and is in denial about many things that have happened over  the last 8 years
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« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2008, 05:19:56 PM »

Quote from: Jaddison on September 09, 2008, 04:31:23 PM

and anyone who thinks W. isn't in at least in the running for worst of all time probably has blinders on and is in denial about many things that have happened over  the last 8 years

No i dont think that yet, you cannot judge a presidency and its place in history before that president has even left office.   I would argue you need at least 20-30 years to be able to do so with any sort of objectivity.   I have no blinders and am in denial about nothing, I have no use for Bush, did not vote for him, and dont agree with him on a lot of things he has done.   But to already say he is the worst president in history shows one as being hopelessly partisan in their political outlook.
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« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2008, 06:04:06 PM »

I'm pretty sure no president will ever be worse than James Buchanan, but that's getting off the topic at hand.
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« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2008, 06:26:05 PM »

Quote from: pr0ner on September 09, 2008, 06:04:06 PM

I'm pretty sure no president will ever be worse than James Buchanan, but that's getting off the topic at hand.

You just leave Ten-Cent Jimmy outta this!!1!
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Doopri
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« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2008, 06:46:23 PM »

Quote
I would argue you need at least 20-30 years to be able to do so with any sort of objectivity.

unless the middle east turns into magical democracy land as a direct result of the current conflicts, in the next 20 - 30 hes still not going to fair well

if anything it will get worse as the monitoring programs become more scrutinized and the war on terror takes its rightful place in history, sans histrionics

that said none of this is really germane to the topic
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« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2008, 09:53:02 PM »

Continuing off topic....

Worst President isn't Bush, its Buchanan probably followed by Nixon. Mix Wilson, Grance, and John Quincy Adams in somewhere in the top 10 as well.

Bush will be in the top 10 worst, even if the Middle East flowers in the next decade, but its not reasonable to place him for a few decades. We're up to about Reagan (~good) and the first Bush (~great) for that train.
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Caine
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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2008, 12:36:18 AM »

yeah, it's a tough act to beat buchanan for that spot.  there's nothing quite like "didn't do anything to prevent america's deadliest war"  on your resume.  at least gwb is too close to election to seriously consider going after iran, syria, or north korea right now. 

harding was a right bastard too.  scandals aplenty and rampant cronyism with allegations of ripping off gov't money.
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Jeff
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2008, 01:07:01 AM »

Quote from: Laner on September 09, 2008, 03:25:02 PM

cries of "theocracy!" should be the new Godwin's law.  Seriously, get a grip.

No sir. "Get a grip" here means, STFU and ignore the tidal wave of Christian fundamentalists who are not only voting in those with theocratic aspirations, but like Palin, are themselves becoming involved in public office and policy. Make no mistake, many Christians want the U.S. to be, not a free nation, but  a "Christian nation".

And brett, she didn't just have a nutty pastor, she was (is) one of the nuts. How much do you know about the Pentecostals, and what exactly it is they believe? They have a healthy disdain for science and want to replace it with "what the bible teaches" (aka absurdities). They believe the bible is 100% literally true. The speak in "tongues" and roll around on the floor and believe that God talks to them. It's some pretty scary stuff, and Palin was one for most of her adult life. She probably would still be (she still visits) if she didn't absolutely need to disassociate herself for political reasons.

And being the head of the most powerful military in the world and at the same time believing that unjust wars are a "mission from God" honestly scares the shit out of me. I see no difference in that and the same type radical Islamic fundamentalist rhetoric.




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Doopri
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2008, 02:31:41 AM »

ill nominate hayes too - not so much for his administration, but for basically being awarded the presidency in exchange for an end to reconstruction... many many long years of racial harmony and equality followed...

honestly ive always had a soft spot for nixon.  he was paranoid, he grossly violated the civil rights of his citizens and particularly his opponents, he was probaby a racist

but he had some absolutely beautiful, strongwilled and innovative moments in foreign policy that left the us and world better off - im torn, i really am (as long as one is willing to disregard his earlier work as a strident student of the red scare, which possibly caused the foreign policy disasters which his administration later had to resolve)
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« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2008, 01:49:56 AM »

Quote from: Jeff Jones on September 10, 2008, 01:07:01 AM

Quote from: Laner on September 09, 2008, 03:25:02 PM

cries of "theocracy!" should be the new Godwin's law.  Seriously, get a grip.

No sir. "Get a grip" here means, STFU and ignore the tidal wave of Christian fundamentalists who are not only voting in those with theocratic aspirations, but like Palin, are themselves becoming involved in public office and policy. Make no mistake, many Christians want the U.S. to be, not a free nation, but  a "Christian nation".

Eh. You're going to need to decide if you want to live in a Muslim Nation or a Christian nation, as religion worldwide is on a significant rise, not the decline. I have a feeling homosexuals, athiests, females and a host of other would be better served by the Christian radicals than their Muslim counterparts.

And quite honestly, the types of rhetoric served up by Obama's house of worship (excuse me, previous house of worship) are not exactly free of poison. Both parties have significant issues.
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« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2008, 05:27:20 AM »

Tomorrow's shaping up to be a pretty awful day for the markets:

Lehman Brothers goes under.
BofA buying Merrill Lynch on the cheap.
AIG, the world's 18th largest company, may only survive 48-72 more hours without a gigantic government handout.

I look forward to the usual suspects who ostensibly love laissez-faire capitalism arguing against the bailouts of private corporations with tens of billions in taxpayer dollars.

Let's all thank Phil Gramm, McCain economic advisor, for his contribution to this total disaster.
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