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Author Topic: X-Men 3  (Read 4148 times)
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th'FOOL
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« on: May 28, 2006, 04:07:17 AM »

Went and saw this earlier today with my son.  My first impression was that it was mediocre yet entertaining in a brainless sort of way.  Pissed off about how they completely screwed up the fabulous set-up for the Phoenix saga more than anything.

Then I watched X-Men 2 again when I got home.

Basically, I'm left with the feeling that X-Men 3 was total crap, expecially when you hold it up to the 2nd.  The Last Stand is a soulless, poorly written, and barely comprehensible hack-job of a film.  The craft put into the first and second films- from the special effects to the cinematography- is completely absent.  There are huge ridiculous plot holes and every character acts like a bad caricature of how they did in the first two.   Meaningless deaths, the last 5 minutes negates two of the more powerful moments of the film, too many characters to even get a grip on.  And someone needs to tell the transvestite who played Arclight to get a fucking better haircut.

To be fair, I think I liked a few seconds of the movie here and there, but I wish I had my money back and a better fucking X-Men movie to watch.
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« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 05:21:45 AM »

I thought it was alright entertainment... nothing like the first two but I didnt leave the theater feeling like I wasted my money.  Plus, Jean Grey.
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« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 08:39:10 PM »

I knew the movie was doomed back when I heard...

Spoiler for Hiden:
That Cyclops dies near the beginning of the film.


I mean, come on, that's so far outside of the story lines, it shows they could care less about what happened in the comic books.

Shame on Marvel.  I'm thinking I'll skip seeing this one.
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« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2006, 09:30:27 PM »

The gist of my opinion, from my review of the film:

A distressing mishmash of plot points, characters and CGI effects that swirl about brightly and loudly, Ratnerís pretentiously-named The Last Stand ultimate falls flat. It lacks the coherent story and momentum of the first two films, and is an unsatisfying conclusion to what should have been a phenomenal movie trilogy. While The Last Stand doesnít fail on every level, it fails on enough of them to destroy any enthusiasm for a potential X-Men 4....

No super-hero franchise has ever maintained quality for more than two films. In the 1980s, Superman III failed to live up to the grandeur of its predecessors. In the 1990s, Batman Forever marked the return of campiness and the end of greatness for the Dark Knightís franchise. Both series faltered in large part due to the departure of the directors from the original films. Sadly, the X-Men series has suffered the same fate. While the visual flair and action in the last act makes this a somewhat amusing summer popcorn flick, itís not enough to make The Last Stand a satisfying X-Men movie. Fans of the series would do better to just stay home and rewatch X-Men United on DVD.
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« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2006, 03:50:19 AM »

And yet it's raked in an approximate 107 million dollars in its openning (Memorial Day) weekend.
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« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2006, 05:17:44 AM »

Bad films are often commercial successes. They're still bad films.
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« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2006, 06:33:22 AM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
No super-hero franchise has ever maintained quality for more than two films.


God I hope the new Batman series doesn't fall into this exact pit, but we'll see. If anything can break that streak it's Spider-Man so we'll all see next May whether keeping the same team together can result in a solid trilogy. slywink
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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 05:23:01 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Bad films are often commercial successes. They're still bad films.


... and great films fail at the box office. I'm totally with ya. Still, X3 had a huge first week pull, so in a sense it's a great film, doing exactly what the studios wanted it to. I'm going to guess that it'll have a huge second week drop though, if everyone keeps badmouthing it like this.

I still want to see it in the theatre.
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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2006, 08:03:42 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
And yet it's raked in an approximate 107 million dollars in its openning (Memorial Day) weekend.


Actually, it's more like $120 million and the fourth highest opening ever.

Everyone I've talked to seems to hate it.
 :?
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« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2006, 08:30:02 PM »

The 107 was a three day pull, while 120 was for the four days.

What I find amazing - and you can see it here in the top Memorial Day openings - is the average made at the theatres. They must have been packed. Just for instance, the number two opening, Shrek 2, was in 4,223 theatres, had an average of $22,632 per theatre, and made approx 95 mil. opening weekend. X3, however, was only in 3,690 theatres, yet averaged $32,554, for approx 120 mil. That's pretty damned impressive.

Edit: And I should add that, yes, if you do have a lesser theatre count, your average will increase - if you do the same amount of business. But the movie did almost 33% more than Shrek 2, while it was only in, what?, a sixth less the number of theatres. Still huge numbers.
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« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2006, 10:20:50 PM »

They are playing it on six screens at the Harkins near me.  Literally every half hour there is a new one starting.  This one too crowded?  Hit the next line.
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« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2006, 02:43:41 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
They must have been packed. Just for instance, the number two opening, Shrek 2, was in 4,223 theatres, had an average of $22,632 per theatre, and made approx 95 mil. opening weekend. X3, however, was only in 3,690 theatres, yet averaged $32,554, for approx 120 mil. That's pretty damned impressive.


Actually, that $95 million figure was for Shrek 2's second weekend.  Shrek 2 actually did $108 million it's first weekend.
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2006, 04:09:34 AM »

Ahh, I guess it must have come out a week before Memorial Day, and the list from Box Office Mojo isn't only for Memorial Day openers. Fair enough. Thanks for the correction.

That's funny, I thought Shrek 2 had done better than 95 million opening weekend. (Like 95 mil is even a bad sum.)


Edit: Looks like Shrek 2 still had a lower opening weekend average of $25,951 per theatre.
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« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2006, 04:13:06 AM »

Well, at the risk of getting flamed, I'll pony up and say that I enjoyed it.  And yes, I'm an X-Men comics fan, not just a guy who's watched the films.

But I'm also not quite so stuck on canon (with the exception of how each of the three films has taken Magneto and turned him far more bloodthirsty and less honorable than he is in comic continuity; Magneto's actually my second favorite comic character, though, so that's probably why I'm less tolerant of changes to his character), and I'm also willing to forgive some cheesy stuff if other aspects are done well.

I didn't mind the changes to the Phoenix story, since honestly, I've never been all that big a fan of the cosmic/alien stuff in the X canon.  I do, however, agree with those who feel that having two main plotlines ended up watering the film down.  Each of the plotlines could have served fairly well as a movie on their own.  In fact, I'd think that the Phoenix story would've been appropriate for the third film, with the "cure" story coming in on the fourth movie.

I agree with Th'Fool's comment that the last five minutes negates two of the film's powerful moments.  I was actually hoping these two things would stand as they were if any further films are made.
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« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2006, 04:15:33 AM »

IGN also said that there was a relevant scene after the credits. Did anyone stay to see it?
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« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2006, 04:19:32 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
IGN also said that there was a relevant scene after the credits. Did anyone stay to see it?


I included that in my "last five minutes of the film".  Probably should've been explicit about it.  smile
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« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2006, 02:17:04 PM »

Well, I enjoyed the movie to an extent.  He certainly did butcher some of the Xmen cannon, but seriously you would have to be a fan of the Xmen comics to see where he took some liberties.

Also, having Arclight running around with the Morlocks was a bit much for me.  Also, Callisto only power was being able to locate mutants.  Superspeed was never a power she had



Anyway, my feeling on

Spoiler for Hiden:
Cyclops being dead is a toss up.  They never really showed you what happened to him.  It only implied that he died.  As my sister said .  He could be  in the lake just like Jean was.  Also, if you didn't see that whole Proffesor X taking over the Comatose man thing coming you should be shoot.



Also, I hear the Hugh Jackman has signed on to do a stand alone Wolverine movie
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« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2006, 08:18:28 PM »

I LOVED the movie, I absolutely enjoyed it. Huge X-men fan, this one felt authentic. Did Cyclops really die? We don't know for sure, keeps you wondering just like the comics like to do slywink Can't wait to see it again next weekend!
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« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2006, 08:27:52 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
And yet it's raked in an approximate 107 million dollars in its openning (Memorial Day) weekend.


My guess is because most people just treat it as a big assed blockbuster superhero flick, with lots of action and stuff. In other words they don't get all fixated on how some director is maybe fucking up their precious comic book series.

The fanboys wanted this to be some mangum Opus type end to a trilogy, and when it didn't fullfill their comic book fantasy they get all worked up.
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« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2006, 08:30:11 PM »

Quote from: "Jumangi"
Quote from: "Dafones"
And yet it's raked in an approximate 107 million dollars in its openning (Memorial Day) weekend.


My guess is because most people just treat it as a big assed blockbuster superhero flick, with lots of action and stuff. In other words they don't get all fixated on how some director is maybe fucking up their precious comic book series.

The fanboys wanted this to be some mangum Opus type end to a trilogy, and when it didn't fullfill their comic book fantasy they get all worked up.


Well, isn't that insulting.
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« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2006, 08:30:29 PM »

Quote from: "Ridah"
I LOVED the movie, I absolutely enjoyed it. Huge X-men fan, this one felt authentic. Did Cyclops really die? We don't know for sure, keeps you wondering just like the comics like to do slywink Can't wait to see it again next weekend!


SPOILER TAG please! frown
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« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2006, 08:52:35 PM »

Quote from: "th'FOOL"
Basically, I'm left with the feeling that X-Men 3 was total crap


I just saw it. You feel that way because it is total crap.

Also, Ridah, dude. You're an X-Men fan and you liked that pile of trash?

How? I mean.. just.. how?

I loved the comics. That said, I'm not against some changes to make it fit the big screen better. I loved the first one, and the second one was even better. This one? It's just garbage by comparison.

Juggernaut a mutant? Arclight looking like an 18 year old transsexual? Pyro a "level 5" mutant?
Spoiler for Hiden:
Wolverine killing Pheonix?
Who wrote this shit? Who made these decisions?

What. The. Fuck.
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« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2006, 08:53:48 PM »

All I know about the X-Men is from the movies.  This was a poor movie regardless of the content.  Pacing was off, character development was flat (and even backpedeled in some cases, witness Wolverwussie), dialog was cheesy (even for sci-fi film standards), etc.  On its own it was a so-so action movie, but coming after the first two it was glaring that the talent behind the series left with Singer.  The fact that this movie made so much money is akin to Barry Switzer winning a Super Bowl with Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys.
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« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2006, 10:01:55 PM »

OMG.  After reading some of the plot stuff, not only am I not going to see this in the theatre, I believe I'll pretend it was never even made.
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« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2006, 10:21:26 PM »

Quote from: "Thin_J"

Juggernaut a mutant? Arclight looking like an 18 year old transsexual? Pyro a "level 5" mutant?
Spoiler for Hiden:
Wolverine killing Pheonix?
Who wrote this shit? Who made these decisions?

What. The. Fuck.


Everything can be explained very simply.  The Movie Universe is an alternate universe of the comics.  Things are -different-.  

BTW, Pyro isn't level 5.  He's level 4.  Callisto said that no one there was above a level 3 other than Pyro and Magneto.  Xavier said that Jean was level 5.  Callisto said that Jean's more powerful than Magneto.  Thus, Mags and Pyro are level 4.  

Again, alternate universe.  I enjoyed the movie, personally.
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« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 01:27:33 AM »

Ohhhhhh I wish I hadn't highlighted Thin_J's last spoiler tag. Stupid me though. I still want to see the flick, but I get the sense that it won't really be much of a shame if I don't go into it with a completely spoiler-free mindset.

Anyway, what the hell are the levels that you're all babbling about? And what the hell is Juggernaut if not a mutant? A really big dude?
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« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 01:57:56 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
And what the hell is Juggernaut if not a mutant? A really big dude?


He's supposed to be magical, which I guess is a big deal to some people.  slywink  Me, after Juggernaught's stint as a member of the X-Men for the past few years, I kept forgetting he wasn't a mutant.  Just isn't much of a big deal to me whether he is or not, I suppose.

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Jumangi"
The fanboys wanted this to be some mangum Opus type end to a trilogy, and when it didn't fullfill their comic book fantasy they get all worked up.

Well, isn't that insulting.


I have to say, I find it rather insulting how so many people are claiming that it's a fact this movie is crap, or that, if you enjoyed it at all, you can't possibly be a fan of the X-Men from the comics.

Different people like/dislike things for different reasons.  I've absolutely hated Claremont's run on anything X-Men related since later on in the "X-Treme X-Men" series of a couple years back, but there are many fans who think that anything Claremont scribbles onto the page is golden (and yes, I love the classic Claremont era and the great story arcs and characters he came up with).  Different tastes for different people.
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« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 02:03:46 AM »

My friend that was a fan of the comic years ago liked it.

A female co-worker that has never read the comic enjoyed it a lot.

I didn't expect much from the first two (and was pleasantly surprised) so I will go into it with an open mind.  I couldn't care less if it sticks to the comic storyline.  I admit that seeing the REAL Dark Phoenix saga as a film would be orgasmic but I just don't expect to ever see that.  I'm a bit dissapointed they seem to have squandered the excellent setup at the end of part 2, but I can still enjoy the movie for what it aims to be, which I assume is a fun summer action film.

This WAS supposed to be the Dark Phoenix saga, right?  Or is there another Phoenix saga?  I honestly don't remember.  Hellfire Club!
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« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2006, 02:16:42 AM »

Everyone I know that saw it has given it a thumbs down.  I decided to skip it and saw MI:3 instead this past weekend.

Quote from: "Farscry"
I've absolutely hated Claremont's run on anything X-Men related since later on in the "X-Treme X-Men" series of a couple years back


I couldn't agree with you more.  Crappy storylines and crappier dialogue was dragging it down.  I'm so glad he's off of the two main titles.
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« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2006, 03:25:52 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry"
I've absolutely hated Claremont's run on anything X-Men related since later on in the "X-Treme X-Men" series of a couple years back


I couldn't agree with you more.  Crappy storylines and crappier dialogue was dragging it down.  I'm so glad he's off of the two main titles.[/quote]

I actually found that I rather enjoyed Brubaker's "Deadly Genesis" mini-series that just wrapped up (though initially I was thinking it wouldn't turn out so well) and am pretty excited to see what he does with his upcoming 12-part arc on Uncanny X-Men.  I'm also still getting a kick out of Whedon's writing on Astonishing; even if the stories themselves aren't necessarily as great as I'd hope for ("Dangerous" was actually a bit underwhelming), his characterizations continue to very much impress me. smile
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« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2006, 04:01:10 AM »

Juggernaut's powers are magical?? Ha ha, that's stupid. What a bitch. Comics are for suckers. Frickin' nerds.


*Runs away*


Seriously thought, I'm almost happier if they made Juggernaut a mutant instead of - what? like a mythological being or something? - for the movie. Sometimes changes like that have to be made for the sake of the adaptation. Fans wouldn't care so much if the movie was better, if the characters were treated with more respect.
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« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2006, 04:51:23 AM »

Well, I subjected myself to this tonight.  Ugh.  Everything negative that's been said is absolutely true.  The whole thing just felt cheap and slapped together.  I got the same feeling after watching this that I had after watching Charlie's Angels 2:  cash grab all the way.  This is how they choose to end the series???  They took way too many liberties with the 'verse and there were so many cliched Screenwriting 101 moments.  It was a disjointed mess.

On top of that, I had to sit through the Ghost Rider trailer before it started.  Yikes.
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« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2006, 04:52:53 AM »

Quote from: "stiffler"
I couldn't care less if it sticks to the comic storyline.  I admit that seeing the REAL Dark Phoenix saga as a film would be orgasmic but I just don't expect to ever see that.

if you want a version that sticks pretty closely to the comics, you just have to track down a copy of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix sagas from the old cartoon...pretty well done if i remember correctly.  unfortunately, finding that fantastic old show is easier said than done.  i still have a 15+ year old VHS tape with the whole Dark Phoenix saga on it, but i lost my recording of the Phoenix saga sometime over the years...frown

i'm still waiting for the day when they release the whole series on DVD, but it's been ignored for so long that i have my doubts we'll ever see it now...
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« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2006, 05:02:08 AM »

Quote from: "Farscry"
Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Jumangi"
The fanboys wanted this to be some mangum Opus type end to a trilogy, and when it didn't fullfill their comic book fantasy they get all worked up.

Well, isn't that insulting.


I have to say, I find it rather insulting how so many people are claiming that it's a fact this movie is crap, or that, if you enjoyed it at all, you can't possibly be a fan of the X-Men from the comics.


Not all of us who are complaining about the gaping deficiencies in the script and direction of this film are denigrating those who liked the movie -- there's nothing wrong with likely a badly made movie, I like several badly made movies.

The comment I was replying to, however, was aimed specifically at those who didn't like the movie. It's entire point was to denigrate.

Surely you can see the difference between "this movie was poorly written, and was episodic with no narrative drive" and "only fanboy losers don't like this movie." One critiques the film, the other attacks other posters.
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« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2006, 05:39:06 AM »

Quote from: "disarm"
Quote from: "stiffler"
I couldn't care less if it sticks to the comic storyline.  I admit that seeing the REAL Dark Phoenix saga as a film would be orgasmic but I just don't expect to ever see that.

if you want a version that sticks pretty closely to the comics, you just have to track down a copy of the Phoenix and Dark Phoenix sagas from the old cartoon...pretty well done if i remember correctly.  unfortunately, finding that fantastic old show is easier said than done.  i still have a 15+ year old VHS tape with the whole Dark Phoenix saga on it, but i lost my recording of the Phoenix saga sometime over the years...frown

i'm still waiting for the day when they release the whole series on DVD, but it's been ignored for so long that i have my doubts we'll ever see it now...


Man, I loved that show! I could probably hum/whistle most of the theme song from it. To think of how much it covered, like Dark Phoenix and Age of Apocalypse, in a Saturday morning cartoon. Wow. Respect. All I know about X-Men I know from that cartoon. They should put that on DVD. I'd totally watch it again.
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« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2006, 05:43:21 AM »

My friend Ferguson bought a bunch of DVDs that had VHS-recordings of the entire series on them. It was pretty good, but the recordings were very choppy. Most of my interest in X-Men comes from the more recent Marvel Ultimates line. Growing up a DC kid, I've always found the continuity of the 616 Universe to be hard to follow, particularly the way the X-Men and the rest of the Marvel universe often seemed to have incompatible continuities.
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« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2006, 09:37:11 AM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
Anyway, what the hell are the levels that you're all babbling about? And what the hell is Juggernaut if not a mutant? A really big dude?


The "levels" are just a way some character whom I couldn't possibly name came up with for classifying the level of power a mutant has. Probably Boliver Trask or one of those other government type characters. Maybe Gyrich. I don't know.

And I posted not minutes after finishing the movie. She looks at Magneto and says (close, might not be exact wordage) "She's the only other level 5 I've seen, except you (looking at Magneto) and him (nodding at Pyro)".

Again with the I don't know. I won't really argue it because I admit my memory isn't perfect, but that's what both myself and a friend heard in the theater, and it made both of us kind of go "... What?"

As for Juggernaut, his powers are entirely magic. IIRC it has something to do with something called the Cyttorak stone, or at least something similiar. I think that name's right. I don't know. I'm sure the info is on Wikipedia. Regardless, he isn't a mutant. If they were going to fuck up the character they should've just left him out of the movie.

The more I think about this movie the more I think it sucks.
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« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2006, 03:22:04 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
The comment I was replying to, however, was aimed specifically at those who didn't like the movie. It's entire point was to denigrate.

Surely you can see the difference between "this movie was poorly written, and was episodic with no narrative drive" and "only fanboy losers don't like this movie." One critiques the film, the other attacks other posters.


Yup, I'm on board with you there.  smile  I don't want anyone denigrating anyone else here; it's fun just to debate the movie and our enjoyment/lack-thereof without having to start claiming there's something wrong with those who did/didn't like it.  slywink

On the comments of the X-Men cartoon from the 90's, yeah, I miss that show.  It got cheesy at times, but no big deal there.  It did a lot right, and I was especially pleased with the handling of the Phoenix saga.  Though, what works in the cartoon wouldn't necessarily work in a film.

I'd love a DVD release of the cartoon series.  Would snap it up in a heartbeat.  biggrin
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« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2006, 05:33:26 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
I like several badly made movies.

*cough*Gigli*cough*
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« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2006, 05:41:19 PM »

Quote from: "whiteboyskim"
Quote from: "Fireball1244"
I like several badly made movies.

*cough*Gigli*cough*


I DO NOT LIKE GIGLI. Yes, I own Gigli on DVD, but only because someone I care about decided that it was "our movie" and gave it to me on DVD. I could no more throw it away than you could part with the beautiful Jar-Jar Binks gifts I've given you over the years.
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