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Author Topic: WWDC 2011 - Lion, iOs 5, iCloud  (Read 2375 times)
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leo8877
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« Reply #40 on: June 06, 2011, 09:33:32 PM »

Quote from: Blackjack on June 06, 2011, 09:30:12 PM

While I like the idea of being able to install updates w/o PC-synching, my recent fiasco with a major update that hosed my iPod Touch (I didn't lose anything critical, save for one song I'd bought via my Touch which I hadn't synched that day) has left me leery of installing any of the more major iOs updates without synching first. I think that's actually the first time I'd ever had my Touch get totally borked (either 2nd gen or 4th gen versions that I've owned).

So while I'm excited about iOs 5, I definitely plan to synch before I install the update.  paranoid

It will sync to the cloud now, so even if you buy a new device, you can retrieve your image from the cloud.
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leo8877
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« Reply #41 on: June 06, 2011, 09:34:51 PM »

So a question about iTunes Match...will it stream music?  Or will it just store my entire library and allow me to download it to anything?
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leo8877
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« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2011, 09:40:15 PM »

Looks like automatic downloads arrived on iOS just now too:

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rittchard
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« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2011, 10:06:08 PM »

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 09:18:27 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 08:00:57 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 07:56:36 PM

Quote from: Exodor on June 06, 2011, 07:35:29 PM

Weeks?  Really?  Maybe if you're using dial-up to upload your collection.   retard


EDIT - and the $50 a year for Amazon actually gets you 50 GB or 10,000 songs.   

EDIT EDIT - and 20,000 songs is $100 a year on Amazon, not $200.  You know, Apple, this stuff is pretty easy to check out.   Roll Eyes

Well of course, this is creative marketing and all YMMV stuff.  Personally, I have about 25GB in music and a pretty good upload speed of 2,500 Kbps.  It'd take me a day or so to upload, presuming the web server I'm uploading two can max out my connection and I'm not doing anything else at the time.  I don't really find 'weeks' to be far fetched.

On your second point, yeah that's awfully creative math there.  I guess Apple figures an average song to be 10MB in size?  I can't say I've looked at my music collection in terms of individual song size lately, but that strikes me as an  overestimation. 

I think you guys are forgetting that not everyone has the same upload speeds you do, you're probably in the minority.  So if even uberDirk did it in 2-3 days, weeks is not necessarily a bad estimate for those with more average connections.

Also, the songs I've downloaded lately are usually around 8MB for a 4 minute song, so 10MB is not a bad estimate.

I think the number of people who have *mammoth* digital music collections and utter crap internet connections must be pretty small. Weeks is pretty much bullshit and everyone with a large music collection knows it, but whatever. Minutes is pretty nice. Until Google starts charging me for hosting 12,000 songs for free, however, I can't say I'm remotely tempted by Apple's match service (particularly since it will not work with my Android phone).

I think it's intended more for people who don't already have something in place, or are even starting from scratch.  I'm also guessing people who still have a ton of CDs sitting in their garage (like me) will benefit if/when they eventually decided they wanted to have centralized access to all their music.  And as for upload speeds, I don't know what's considered typical, but I do know I pay for the absolute fastest on Uverse and it's still 3Mbps MAX, and probably nowhere near that in reality.  The base plan is 1Mbps.  I had DSL at my last place and it was "up to 384Kbps".

- - -

Leo, doesn't sound like iTunes Match is going to do any streaming per se on its own (seems like it's more a system to just collect all your stuff in one spot) - but neither is iCloud unless I'm reading it wrong.  There is/was still speculation that they will release some new version of Time Capsule or something like that that would serve as an intermediary at your home to download stuff from iCloud and then stream it to you anywhere.
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leo8877
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« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2011, 10:07:32 PM »

@rittchard - hmmm I read it as iCloud for sure does not stream for free, but I thought the iTunes Match would.  I guess we'll find out soon enough!!  I'm hoping it does stream, that would be excellent!
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gellar
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« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2011, 10:10:45 PM »

Streaming is the last thing in the world I care about.  I just want everything to sync.  That'll rule.  It'll rule hard.
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rittchard
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« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2011, 10:16:15 PM »

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 10:10:45 PM

Streaming is the last thing in the world I care about.  I just want everything to sync.  That'll rule.  It'll rule hard.

Sounds like you'll get your "hard" rule!  Here's the explanation summarized on Macrumors:

Quote
iCloud will attempt to ease the burden of syncing -- at least for songs purchased through iTunes. Previously-purchased songs will show up in a purchase history and any music purchased can be re-downloaded to any device at no additional charge. According to Steve Jobs, this is the "first time we've seen this in the music industry."

Using the new Automatic Downloads feature, content purchased via iTunes is pushed (not streamed) to mobile devices and vice versa. Users will consequently have all of their songs, automatically, wherever they are, on up to ten devices. The service is free for songs through the iTunes Store.

As far as ripped music, iTunes has 18 million songs in the music store and Apple will use a feature called iTunes Match to give users the same benefits on ripped songs matched to iTunes songs, as with purchased tracks. A user's library is scanned and matched and any songs that remain unmatched can be uploaded for syncing. Songs that are matched are upgraded to 256KBps, AAC, DRM-free, with all the benefits above, including push syncing and all the rest.
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2011, 10:39:08 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 10:06:08 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 09:18:27 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 08:00:57 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 07:56:36 PM

Quote from: Exodor on June 06, 2011, 07:35:29 PM

Weeks?  Really?  Maybe if you're using dial-up to upload your collection.   retard


EDIT - and the $50 a year for Amazon actually gets you 50 GB or 10,000 songs.   

EDIT EDIT - and 20,000 songs is $100 a year on Amazon, not $200.  You know, Apple, this stuff is pretty easy to check out.   Roll Eyes

Well of course, this is creative marketing and all YMMV stuff.  Personally, I have about 25GB in music and a pretty good upload speed of 2,500 Kbps.  It'd take me a day or so to upload, presuming the web server I'm uploading two can max out my connection and I'm not doing anything else at the time.  I don't really find 'weeks' to be far fetched.

On your second point, yeah that's awfully creative math there.  I guess Apple figures an average song to be 10MB in size?  I can't say I've looked at my music collection in terms of individual song size lately, but that strikes me as an  overestimation. 

I think you guys are forgetting that not everyone has the same upload speeds you do, you're probably in the minority.  So if even uberDirk did it in 2-3 days, weeks is not necessarily a bad estimate for those with more average connections.

Also, the songs I've downloaded lately are usually around 8MB for a 4 minute song, so 10MB is not a bad estimate.

I think the number of people who have *mammoth* digital music collections and utter crap internet connections must be pretty small. Weeks is pretty much bullshit and everyone with a large music collection knows it, but whatever. Minutes is pretty nice. Until Google starts charging me for hosting 12,000 songs for free, however, I can't say I'm remotely tempted by Apple's match service (particularly since it will not work with my Android phone).

I think it's intended more for people who don't already have something in place, or are even starting from scratch.  I'm also guessing people who still have a ton of CDs sitting in their garage (like me) will benefit if/when they eventually decided they wanted to have centralized access to all their music.  And as for upload speeds, I don't know what's considered typical, but I do know I pay for the absolute fastest on Uverse and it's still 3Mbps MAX, and probably nowhere near that in reality.  The base plan is 1Mbps.  I had DSL at my last place and it was "up to 384Kbps".

I think between 1 and 2 Mbps is pretty typical for people with a solid broadband connection. I uploaded around 10,000 songs in around 3 days to Google Music; well over 20 gigs of data. My music collection is now available for streaming wherever I have an internet connection. Streaming over my phones 3G data connection works fine (although, I still prefer using a dedicated iPod to handle music and podcasts in my car; any streaming service is going to hiccup, particularly when you are driving). Google Instant Mixes, for whatever reason, seem to do a much better job than the genius mixes available on iTunes (I'm very surprised by this; I really expected Apple's service to be better). I'm having a lot of fun listening to the mixes that Google makes for me.

I keep hearing that people won't upload or that uploading is a complete turn off to the average consumer. While a system like Apple's match service is better for the consumer, I literally did nothing more than point Google Music to the Music folder on my computer and then let it work in the background. Over a three day period, the service steadily populated and updated the Google Music experience. Now all of my music is in the Cloud. I'm kind of lost as to what is difficult about that. Adding additional music will almost be instantaneous. Since I buy almost all my digital music from Amazon, I have all of my more recent purchases available from Amazon's Cloud locker as well. Google and Amazon's offerings are going to work with more devices. So ... this is going to be an interesting little battle.

I'm not sure what your point is about people who haven't loaded their music onto their computers yet. They still have to subject themselves to that chore in order to take advantage of Apple's match service. I mean, if your're just talking about the advantages of Cloud storage, in general, no question its useful and desirable. But there are other competent solutions out there.

iOS 5 is an exciting announcement for the Apple ecosystem. The stuff they've added will make their portable devices much, much better. Their notifications revamp is a killer improvement (it's a catch-up move that makes the device much stronger over all; the user base won't believe they were able to live without it after it is implemented). I can't wait to play with this stuff on my iPad.
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gellar
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« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2011, 10:59:52 PM »

While the notification system looks to be a huge step up, I pray that iOS 5 fixes the godawful Calendaring.  Without that, I'm going to have to move back to a Blackberry when my year is up.
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM »

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?
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rittchard
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« Reply #50 on: June 06, 2011, 11:16:54 PM »

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 10:39:08 PM

I'm not sure what your point is about people who haven't loaded their music onto their computers yet. They still have to subject themselves to that chore in order to take advantage of Apple's match service. I mean, if your're just talking about the advantages of Cloud storage, in general, no question its useful and desirable. But there are other competent solutions out there.

This is how I'm imagining it will work.  If I put an old CD in, iTunes comes up and asks me if I want to rip the files in - I hit yes and a few minutes later they are in digital format.  After that's done, it asks me if I want to iMatch them, and I say yes - assuming it was something in their database, essentially I'm done.  If not, I have to upload the files.  Either way it's then a part of my iTunes/iCloud and I can choose to (or not) bring them into any of my other Apple devices. 

I have no doubt there are other useful/competent solutions available, but if you are like me and have a random mixture of iTunes purchases, CDs already ripped, and CDs not ripped, this sounds like the easiest way to get digital access to all of it in one place.  It's the combination of the match service + the cloud service that appeals to me because of how I've largely not managed my digital "collection".  They claim they have 18 million songs or whatever, so chances are they'll have the majority of my CDs already in their database and I won't have to bother with the whole upload process.  Am I being lazy?  Sure, but to me that's the whole thing with the Apple products/ecosystem, finding the path of least resistance. 
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gellar
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« Reply #51 on: June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM »

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #52 on: June 06, 2011, 11:52:21 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 11:16:54 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 10:39:08 PM

I'm not sure what your point is about people who haven't loaded their music onto their computers yet. They still have to subject themselves to that chore in order to take advantage of Apple's match service. I mean, if your're just talking about the advantages of Cloud storage, in general, no question its useful and desirable. But there are other competent solutions out there.

This is how I'm imagining it will work.  If I put an old CD in, iTunes comes up and asks me if I want to rip the files in - I hit yes and a few minutes later they are in digital format.  After that's done, it asks me if I want to iMatch them, and I say yes - assuming it was something in their database, essentially I'm done.  If not, I have to upload the files.  Either way it's then a part of my iTunes/iCloud and I can choose to (or not) bring them into any of my other Apple devices. 

I have no doubt there are other useful/competent solutions available, but if you are like me and have a random mixture of iTunes purchases, CDs already ripped, and CDs not ripped, this sounds like the easiest way to get digital access to all of it in one place.  It's the combination of the match service + the cloud service that appeals to me because of how I've largely not managed my digital "collection".  They claim they have 18 million songs or whatever, so chances are they'll have the majority of my CDs already in their database and I won't have to bother with the whole upload process.  Am I being lazy?  Sure, but to me that's the whole thing with the Apple products/ecosystem, finding the path of least resistance. 

But that's exactly what will happen with my music right now using Google Music. The Google uploader runs in the background and is pointed to my Music folder, the same place that iTunes is going to rip my music to. So I do what you imagine doing: 1) I grab a CD that hasn't been uploaded yet. 2) I rip it into iTunes and now have it available in the same manner I've always had iTunes music made available to my iDevices. 3) Google Music uploads the tracks into the cloud automagically, without consulting me in any fashion and without me needing to do a single thing. 4) Viola ... shortly after I rip the tracks (I'm guessing 10 minutes tops) my new CD is available in the cloud, ready to be streamed to any computer or my phone. Also, with a touch of a button, I can tell my phone to download any tracks I choose to my SD card, so that they are available for offline storage on my phone. Apple's solution is elegant and awesome. It will also cost me $25/year. Google's solution does the exact same thing (currently for free), and it is just as elegant and awesome. Of course, the ultimate question will be what Google ultimately charges for all of that storage. I don't think you can have a real comparison until we know that, but if the G solution stays free, I will never be tempted to pay for Apple's match service.
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #53 on: June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM »

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.
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Biyobi
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« Reply #54 on: June 07, 2011, 12:12:19 AM »

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:52:21 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 11:16:54 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 10:39:08 PM

I'm not sure what your point is about people who haven't loaded their music onto their computers yet. They still have to subject themselves to that chore in order to take advantage of Apple's match service. I mean, if your're just talking about the advantages of Cloud storage, in general, no question its useful and desirable. But there are other competent solutions out there.

This is how I'm imagining it will work.  If I put an old CD in, iTunes comes up and asks me if I want to rip the files in - I hit yes and a few minutes later they are in digital format.  After that's done, it asks me if I want to iMatch them, and I say yes - assuming it was something in their database, essentially I'm done.  If not, I have to upload the files.  Either way it's then a part of my iTunes/iCloud and I can choose to (or not) bring them into any of my other Apple devices. 

I have no doubt there are other useful/competent solutions available, but if you are like me and have a random mixture of iTunes purchases, CDs already ripped, and CDs not ripped, this sounds like the easiest way to get digital access to all of it in one place.  It's the combination of the match service + the cloud service that appeals to me because of how I've largely not managed my digital "collection".  They claim they have 18 million songs or whatever, so chances are they'll have the majority of my CDs already in their database and I won't have to bother with the whole upload process.  Am I being lazy?  Sure, but to me that's the whole thing with the Apple products/ecosystem, finding the path of least resistance. 

But that's exactly what will happen with my music right now using Google Music. The Google uploader runs in the background and is pointed to my Music folder, the same place that iTunes is going to rip my music to. So I do what you imagine doing: 1) I grab a CD that hasn't been uploaded yet. 2) I rip it into iTunes and now have it available in the same manner I've always had iTunes music made available to my iDevices. 3) Google Music uploads the tracks into the cloud automagically, without consulting me in any fashion and without me needing to do a single thing. 4) Viola ... shortly after I rip the tracks (I'm guessing 10 minutes tops) my new CD is available in the cloud, ready to be streamed to any computer or my phone. Also, with a touch of a button, I can tell my phone to download any tracks I choose to my SD card, so that they are available for offline storage on my phone. Apple's solution is elegant and awesome. It will also cost me $25/year. Google's solution does the exact same thing (currently for free), and it is just as elegant and awesome. Of course, the ultimate question will be what Google ultimately charges for all of that storage. I don't think you can have a real comparison until we know that, but if the G solution stays free, I will never be tempted to pay for Apple's match service.

Interesting, but what does a viola have to do with it? icon_wink
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GuidoTKP
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« Reply #55 on: June 07, 2011, 12:18:48 AM »

Quote from: Biyobi on June 07, 2011, 12:12:19 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:52:21 PM

Quote from: rittchard on June 06, 2011, 11:16:54 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 10:39:08 PM

I'm not sure what your point is about people who haven't loaded their music onto their computers yet. They still have to subject themselves to that chore in order to take advantage of Apple's match service. I mean, if your're just talking about the advantages of Cloud storage, in general, no question its useful and desirable. But there are other competent solutions out there.

This is how I'm imagining it will work.  If I put an old CD in, iTunes comes up and asks me if I want to rip the files in - I hit yes and a few minutes later they are in digital format.  After that's done, it asks me if I want to iMatch them, and I say yes - assuming it was something in their database, essentially I'm done.  If not, I have to upload the files.  Either way it's then a part of my iTunes/iCloud and I can choose to (or not) bring them into any of my other Apple devices. 

I have no doubt there are other useful/competent solutions available, but if you are like me and have a random mixture of iTunes purchases, CDs already ripped, and CDs not ripped, this sounds like the easiest way to get digital access to all of it in one place.  It's the combination of the match service + the cloud service that appeals to me because of how I've largely not managed my digital "collection".  They claim they have 18 million songs or whatever, so chances are they'll have the majority of my CDs already in their database and I won't have to bother with the whole upload process.  Am I being lazy?  Sure, but to me that's the whole thing with the Apple products/ecosystem, finding the path of least resistance. 

But that's exactly what will happen with my music right now using Google Music. The Google uploader runs in the background and is pointed to my Music folder, the same place that iTunes is going to rip my music to. So I do what you imagine doing: 1) I grab a CD that hasn't been uploaded yet. 2) I rip it into iTunes and now have it available in the same manner I've always had iTunes music made available to my iDevices. 3) Google Music uploads the tracks into the cloud automagically, without consulting me in any fashion and without me needing to do a single thing. 4) Viola ... shortly after I rip the tracks (I'm guessing 10 minutes tops) my new CD is available in the cloud, ready to be streamed to any computer or my phone. Also, with a touch of a button, I can tell my phone to download any tracks I choose to my SD card, so that they are available for offline storage on my phone. Apple's solution is elegant and awesome. It will also cost me $25/year. Google's solution does the exact same thing (currently for free), and it is just as elegant and awesome. Of course, the ultimate question will be what Google ultimately charges for all of that storage. I don't think you can have a real comparison until we know that, but if the G solution stays free, I will never be tempted to pay for Apple's match service.

Interesting, but what does a viola have to do with it? icon_wink

Pffft. Like I care if I spell French words wrong ....
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« Reply #56 on: June 07, 2011, 12:23:04 AM »

sockray blue!
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« Reply #57 on: June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM »

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.
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« Reply #58 on: June 07, 2011, 01:26:12 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.

Which version of Exchange Server does your work use?
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« Reply #59 on: June 07, 2011, 01:30:47 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 07, 2011, 01:26:12 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.

Which version of Exchange Server does your work use?

No idea.  Completely transparent to me.
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« Reply #60 on: June 07, 2011, 01:42:41 AM »

I've heard conflicting reports - if I have music that's not recognized by Apple (because it's a live CD or otherwise not in iTunes) can I use it with iCloud?


And will this system rely on Apple's recognition algorithms?  Because right now when I import an album into iTunes to put it on my iPod it doesn't recognize it and can't find album art at least half the time.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 06:08:37 AM by Exodor » Logged
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« Reply #61 on: June 07, 2011, 02:10:43 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 01:30:47 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 07, 2011, 01:26:12 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.

Which version of Exchange Server does your work use?

No idea.  Completely transparent to me.

Wouldn't that be opaque? slywink

But seriously, if they are using Exchange 2003 or lower, compatibility with iPhone is limited. Apparently, the latest versions work GREAT with iPhone.
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« Reply #62 on: June 07, 2011, 02:11:46 AM »

Quote
iCloud will attempt to ease the burden of syncing -- at least for songs purchased through iTunes. Previously-purchased songs will show up in a purchase history and any music purchased can be re-downloaded to any device at no additional charge. According to Steve Jobs, this is the "first time we've seen this in the music industry."

Apparently Jobs hasn't used Amazon's Cloud music service yet.  All music purchased through Amazon is automatically available on the Cloud Drive without counting against your storage allowance, you can upload any other music to the service, and all files in your Cloud Drive can be downloaded or streamed using either a web browser for your desktop/laptop or the Cloud Music Player app for your mobile device.  Amazon's Cloud Drive makes your entire music collection available for streaming or download anywhere and works great.  It's pretty awesome to have my collection online and ready to stream on my desktop, laptop, or Android phone...and very cool that I can download a song to be played locally if I won't be connected for streaming.  

Apple does come up with their share of unique ideas, but they're playing fast and loose with the facts in today's announcements...
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« Reply #63 on: June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 07, 2011, 02:10:43 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 01:30:47 AM

Quote from: th'FOOL on June 07, 2011, 01:26:12 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.

Which version of Exchange Server does your work use?

No idea.  Completely transparent to me.

Wouldn't that be opaque? slywink

But seriously, if they are using Exchange 2003 or lower, compatibility with iPhone is limited. Apparently, the latest versions work GREAT with iPhone.

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.
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« Reply #64 on: June 07, 2011, 02:47:01 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.

I don't think they care. I'm in the same boat, mostly, we use lotus notes so it's clumsy imap and zero calendar options for my iphone users. I put them on .mac or google calendars but I get constant complaints.
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« Reply #65 on: June 07, 2011, 02:49:42 AM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 02:47:01 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.

I don't think they care. I'm in the same boat, mostly, we use lotus notes so it's clumsy imap and zero calendar options for my iphone users. I put them on .mac or google calendars but I get constant complaints.

What's funny is that I can't even figure out WHY they won't just copy some of what BB does.

Blackberry shortcut for a conf bridge:
1-888-111-1111x123456789

Apple has one, but it's entirely different and they made it up themselves:
1-888-111-1111,,,123456789

Why the FUCK would this be different?  This is my # complaint with the phone and what will likely cause me to get rid of it.  I dial at least 3 or 4 conference calls per day on my phone.  That's at least 15x per week I'm reminded how dumb this shit is.
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« Reply #66 on: June 07, 2011, 03:27:12 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:49:42 AM

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 02:47:01 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.

I don't think they care. I'm in the same boat, mostly, we use lotus notes so it's clumsy imap and zero calendar options for my iphone users. I put them on .mac or google calendars but I get constant complaints.

What's funny is that I can't even figure out WHY they won't just copy some of what BB does.

Blackberry shortcut for a conf bridge:
1-888-111-1111x123456789

Apple has one, but it's entirely different and they made it up themselves:
1-888-111-1111,,,123456789

Why the FUCK would this be different?  This is my # complaint with the phone and what will likely cause me to get rid of it.  I dial at least 3 or 4 conference calls per day on my phone.  That's at least 15x per week I'm reminded how dumb this shit is.

Well, at first they didn't want business/education people even using the thing. I tried to get one at launch and the only way to do it was with a SSN, we could not use a tax ID number or get it through our corporate at&t account. It wouldn't have been a big deal and we could just expense it, BUT we absolutely cannot (according to our accountant) pay tax and that killed it. We called apple and fought with them for months before finally giving up and I told them I'd buy hundreds of the damn thing, they just didn't care.

It's not just the phone though. They do more and more all the time to make it difficult for business to get things done. Perfect example, backups. Sure I tell the users to store files on the file server but inevitably they will have files on their local machines and cry if they lose them. Why doesn't time machine work over the network without hacking com.apple prefs and even then, unreliably? It's not the technology, you can't put that over on me. Plain and simple, they want to sell time capsules. No. Instead I buy usb hard drives for each and every user to time machine with. Sigh. WORSE now they have, supposedly, created a proprietary hard drive connector so in the event of a machine that won't boot, I can't slave the hard drive? Absurd.

I have more mac users than windows and I myself have two macs and one windows machine (at work) but I've just about had it with all the crap. Specially now that there's a real malware problem that two of my users have caught. The reasons to go mac are getting fewer and fewer.
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« Reply #67 on: June 07, 2011, 03:39:04 AM »

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/06/06/wireless_carriers_reportedly_surprised_by_apples_imessage_feature.html

According to this article, wireless carriers were blindsided by the iMessaging reveal today.  I have to wonder though, they allow BBM, so why care about this?
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« Reply #68 on: June 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM »

I have a stupid question that may have already been answered - If apps are updated automatically, how do I know if an app is updated?
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« Reply #69 on: June 07, 2011, 03:51:09 AM »

Quote from: Devil on June 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM

I have a stupid question that may have already been answered - If apps are updated automatically, how do I know if an app is updated?

Good question, I didn't see anything about that mentioned.
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« Reply #70 on: June 07, 2011, 03:56:28 AM »

The reason to go Mac is that it's a vastly superior OS for getting work done.  The reasons for going Windows on a work machine are pretty much non existent now.  Windows only advantage is gaming.  For everything else, I'd rather have OSX.
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« Reply #71 on: June 07, 2011, 04:05:56 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 03:56:28 AM

The reason to go Mac is that it's a vastly superior OS for getting work done.  The reasons for going Windows on a work machine are pretty much non existent now.  Windows only advantage is gaming.  For everything else, I'd rather have OSX.

+ 1 billion

I couldn't stomach developing for the web on a windows machine at this point. Blech.
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« Reply #72 on: June 07, 2011, 05:00:02 AM »

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 03:27:12 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:49:42 AM

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 02:47:01 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.

I don't think they care. I'm in the same boat, mostly, we use lotus notes so it's clumsy imap and zero calendar options for my iphone users. I put them on .mac or google calendars but I get constant complaints.

What's funny is that I can't even figure out WHY they won't just copy some of what BB does.

Blackberry shortcut for a conf bridge:
1-888-111-1111x123456789

Apple has one, but it's entirely different and they made it up themselves:
1-888-111-1111,,,123456789

Why the FUCK would this be different?  This is my # complaint with the phone and what will likely cause me to get rid of it.  I dial at least 3 or 4 conference calls per day on my phone.  That's at least 15x per week I'm reminded how dumb this shit is.

Well, at first they didn't want business/education people even using the thing. I tried to get one at launch and the only way to do it was with a SSN, we could not use a tax ID number or get it through our corporate at&t account. It wouldn't have been a big deal and we could just expense it, BUT we absolutely cannot (according to our accountant) pay tax and that killed it. We called apple and fought with them for months before finally giving up and I told them I'd buy hundreds of the damn thing, they just didn't care.

It's not just the phone though. They do more and more all the time to make it difficult for business to get things done. Perfect example, backups. Sure I tell the users to store files on the file server but inevitably they will have files on their local machines and cry if they lose them. Why doesn't time machine work over the network without hacking com.apple prefs and even then, unreliably? It's not the technology, you can't put that over on me. Plain and simple, they want to sell time capsules. No. Instead I buy usb hard drives for each and every user to time machine with. Sigh. WORSE now they have, supposedly, created a proprietary hard drive connector so in the event of a machine that won't boot, I can't slave the hard drive? Absurd.

I have more mac users than windows and I myself have two macs and one windows machine (at work) but I've just about had it with all the crap. Specially now that there's a real malware problem that two of my users have caught. The reasons to go mac are getting fewer and fewer.

Huh?

First, regarding Time Machine: why the *bleep* are you trying to use Time Machine in a BUSINESS SETTING?! Time Machine is for home users who don't back up! It's NOT for professional/business settings! Not even close! Buy Time Capsules? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Get a PROFESSIONAL back up solution. There are several for OS X. Do research.

Secondly, I agree that the proprietary hard drive connector shenanigans in the newest iMacs is pure stupidity, it won't prevent you from slaving the harddrive to take files off it, however.

As for the malware... like it's safer on Windows? Either a) educate your users not to open AND INSTALL! unfamiliar files, simple as that - it's not like they open a innocent-looking .jpg file and BAM! virus. You gotta INSTALL the thing for it to do harm - or b) be a good sysadmin and set up USER ACCOUNTS instead of ADMIN ACCOUNTS on the work machines!

Quote from: leo8877 on June 07, 2011, 03:51:09 AM

Quote from: Devil on June 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM

I have a stupid question that may have already been answered - If apps are updated automatically, how do I know if an app is updated?

Good question, I didn't see anything about that mentioned.

I'm not 100%, but I think it means that if you click "download update" on iTunes for instance, your iPhone and iPad will automatically update. And vice versa.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 05:12:33 AM by ravenvii » Logged
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« Reply #73 on: June 07, 2011, 05:04:06 AM »

Quote from: ravenvii on June 07, 2011, 05:00:02 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on June 07, 2011, 03:51:09 AM

Quote from: Devil on June 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM

I have a stupid question that may have already been answered - If apps are updated automatically, how do I know if an app is updated?

Good question, I didn't see anything about that mentioned.

I'm not 100%, but I think it means that if you click "download update" on iTunes for instance, your iPhone and iPad will automatically update. And vice versa.

Nah the new stuff will automatically download updates for you, whether you access them or not (to click that button).  It's going to be transparent to the user. 
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« Reply #74 on: June 07, 2011, 05:05:04 AM »

Quote from: leo8877 on June 07, 2011, 05:04:06 AM

Quote from: ravenvii on June 07, 2011, 05:00:02 AM

Quote from: leo8877 on June 07, 2011, 03:51:09 AM

Quote from: Devil on June 07, 2011, 03:45:20 AM

I have a stupid question that may have already been answered - If apps are updated automatically, how do I know if an app is updated?

Good question, I didn't see anything about that mentioned.

I'm not 100%, but I think it means that if you click "download update" on iTunes for instance, your iPhone and iPad will automatically update. And vice versa.

Nah the new stuff will automatically download updates for you, whether you access them or not (to click that button).  It's going to be transparent to the user. 

I presume apps will let you know the version # and some sort of release notes somewhere online.
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« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2011, 06:54:44 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 12:28:54 AM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:55:12 PM

Quote from: gellar on June 06, 2011, 11:24:19 PM

Quote from: GuidoTKP on June 06, 2011, 11:01:45 PM

What's the problem with calendaring if you have it set up to a Google Calendar?

Well, 1) I don't.  I have it set up with my Exchange calendar and there are some real odd random times where it's not 100% synced and that is damn inexcusable.  Some appointments just aren't on my phone and I can't sort out a rhyme or reason why.  Having to look at my Exchange calendar just to be SURE I'm not missing some important meeting is inexcusable.

2) The calendar itself is just crappy and doesn't function the way it should.  I can't dial a BB formatted phone #/conference bridge, which is a universal standard in my world.  I can't reply to a calendar item.  I can't snooze a calendar reminder.

Not related to calendar, but I also can't change or activate an Out of Office notice from the iPhone either, which is also horrifically annoying.

So yeah, I'm going back to BB more than likely.

If Exchange support rules your universe, have you considered WP7? I don't think I would go the BB route again without first checking out the available WP7 offerings. I'm assuming that WP7's Exchange support is pretty robust.

Not a supported product by my corporate overlords.  BB or iPhone only.

Bummer. Perhaps a Torch is in your future....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
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« Reply #76 on: June 07, 2011, 07:02:27 AM »

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 03:56:28 AM

The reason to go Mac is that it's a vastly superior OS for getting work done.  The reasons for going Windows on a work machine are pretty much non existent now.  Windows only advantage is gaming.  For everything else, I'd rather have OSX.

Yawn. I keep hearing this. I don't see it. I have a Mac as my every day machine at work and use a PC at home. I get real work done without difficulty on both. I find nothing magical about OSX. It's a great operating system. So is Windows 7. Go with either, they both rock.

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« Reply #77 on: June 07, 2011, 01:20:26 PM »

Quote from: ravenvii on June 07, 2011, 05:00:02 AM

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 03:27:12 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:49:42 AM

Quote from: ibdoomed on June 07, 2011, 02:47:01 AM

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 02:24:26 AM

My problems have nothing to do with the Exchange server... every problem I described is 'works as designed' on the iPhone software side.  For all the great work apple does on the consumer side, they are generally fucking clueless as to how a business person uses the device.  Either that or they just don't care.

I don't think they care. I'm in the same boat, mostly, we use lotus notes so it's clumsy imap and zero calendar options for my iphone users. I put them on .mac or google calendars but I get constant complaints.

What's funny is that I can't even figure out WHY they won't just copy some of what BB does.

Blackberry shortcut for a conf bridge:
1-888-111-1111x123456789

Apple has one, but it's entirely different and they made it up themselves:
1-888-111-1111,,,123456789

Why the FUCK would this be different?  This is my # complaint with the phone and what will likely cause me to get rid of it.  I dial at least 3 or 4 conference calls per day on my phone.  That's at least 15x per week I'm reminded how dumb this shit is.

Well, at first they didn't want business/education people even using the thing. I tried to get one at launch and the only way to do it was with a SSN, we could not use a tax ID number or get it through our corporate at&t account. It wouldn't have been a big deal and we could just expense it, BUT we absolutely cannot (according to our accountant) pay tax and that killed it. We called apple and fought with them for months before finally giving up and I told them I'd buy hundreds of the damn thing, they just didn't care.

It's not just the phone though. They do more and more all the time to make it difficult for business to get things done. Perfect example, backups. Sure I tell the users to store files on the file server but inevitably they will have files on their local machines and cry if they lose them. Why doesn't time machine work over the network without hacking com.apple prefs and even then, unreliably? It's not the technology, you can't put that over on me. Plain and simple, they want to sell time capsules. No. Instead I buy usb hard drives for each and every user to time machine with. Sigh. WORSE now they have, supposedly, created a proprietary hard drive connector so in the event of a machine that won't boot, I can't slave the hard drive? Absurd.

I have more mac users than windows and I myself have two macs and one windows machine (at work) but I've just about had it with all the crap. Specially now that there's a real malware problem that two of my users have caught. The reasons to go mac are getting fewer and fewer.

Huh?

First, regarding Time Machine: why the *bleep* are you trying to use Time Machine in a BUSINESS SETTING?! Time Machine is for home users who don't back up! It's NOT for professional/business settings! Not even close! Buy Time Capsules? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Get a PROFESSIONAL back up solution. There are several for OS X. Do research.

You're preaching to the choir. I've been a mac fanboy for years which is why over half my 600 users are mac. When I got here 5 years ago, there were maybe a dozen. Why use time machine in business? Money. I have none.

Quote from: ravenvii
Secondly, I agree that the proprietary hard drive connector shenanigans in the newest iMacs is pure stupidity, it won't prevent you from slaving the harddrive to take files off it, however.

Someone will probably make an adapter sure, but they may be shutdown like the macbook air adapter. We'll have to wait and see unless you have seen it. I don't memorize the internet daily.

Quote from: ravenvii
As for the malware... like it's safer on Windows? Either a) educate your users not to open AND INSTALL! unfamiliar files, simple as that - it's not like they open a innocent-looking .jpg file and BAM! virus. You gotta INSTALL the thing for it to do harm - or b) be a good sysadmin and set up USER ACCOUNTS instead of ADMIN ACCOUNTS on the work machines!

Like I said, I have 600 users. I don't have time to micromanage every machine and when I first tried accounts with limited permissions, it was a massive headache. Now you should know that I have probably the worst users on the planet. Some of them can't figure out drag and drop. I've been looking for a new job because this one is terrible, the users can't be taught and management won't give me any authority over them.
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« Reply #78 on: June 07, 2011, 01:36:00 PM »

iTunes 10.3 beta.  Anyone have a link for the 64bit version?  The Apple link only takes you to version 10.2.2 which is the current non-beta version

It's now up
« Last Edit: June 07, 2011, 02:13:22 PM by Soulchilde » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: June 07, 2011, 01:59:32 PM »

Quote

Quote from: gellar on June 07, 2011, 03:56:28 AM

The reason to go Mac is that it's a vastly superior OS for getting work done.  The reasons for going Windows on a work machine are pretty much non existent now.  Windows only advantage is gaming.  For everything else, I'd rather have OSX.

Yawn. I keep hearing this. I don't see it. I have a Mac as my every day machine at work and use a PC at home. I get real work done without difficulty on both. I find nothing magical about OSX. It's a great operating system. So is Windows 7. Go with either, they both rock.

Yeah, this is the kind of "Macolyte" nonsense I thought we got away from half a decade ago.  The business world is chugging away just fine on Windows, and Win 7 in particular is an excellent OS.  Both ecosystems have their own strengths and weaknesses.

- Typed on my MacBook Pro
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