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Author Topic: Windows 7 Beta  (Read 20262 times)
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Brendan
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« Reply #360 on: June 30, 2009, 06:25:57 PM »

One Note - I've never done it, so YMMV.
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« Reply #361 on: June 30, 2009, 10:01:15 PM »

I'm currently running XP Home on my desktop. Should I be considering a Windows 7 upgrade if my machine is only a single 64 bit AMD 3500+ processor and 2 Gigs of RAM? I also have a laptop running Vista Pro that has an Intel dual core T5800 (2.0 GHz) and 4 Gigs of RAM.
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« Reply #362 on: June 30, 2009, 10:14:13 PM »

W7 runs much better than Vista and pretty close to the same as XP on the same equipment.  It's more modular with less functions activated at the start so in some cases it runs better than XP in terms of memory use.  Boot up times may be slower though.
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« Reply #363 on: June 30, 2009, 10:24:56 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 30, 2009, 06:23:08 PM

Quote from: Ridah on June 30, 2009, 06:19:46 PM

Can you "downgrade" back to Vista from Windows 7 RC?

I just had to deal with W7 freezing a few times and my HD not being recognized, has me worried.

No - you could use the USMT/EasyTransfer method to suck your data out and pull it back into a Vista install, I suppose.

Have you heard of the OS freezing though? I wasn't having any problems before... I didn't use my computer for 3 days and I came back to Windows freezing upon loading. Then after restarting, I was getting the "no boot device" message, after a few restarts it started loading Windows properly again but now it freezes occasionally. Just now in WoW it froze up on me. Any ideas?
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« Reply #364 on: July 01, 2009, 03:45:45 AM »

There's no general "the OS freezes" problem - it's almost certainly driver related.  Are you running the in-box drivers for everything?
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« Reply #365 on: July 01, 2009, 12:15:55 PM »

Quote from: Ridah on June 30, 2009, 10:24:56 PM

Have you heard of the OS freezing though? I wasn't having any problems before... I didn't use my computer for 3 days and I came back to Windows freezing upon loading. Then after restarting, I was getting the "no boot device" message, after a few restarts it started loading Windows properly again but now it freezes occasionally. Just now in WoW it froze up on me. Any ideas?

I'm no expert on pc problems, but if this were happening to me, I'd be backing up my data and fearing that my hard drive was about to die.
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« Reply #366 on: July 23, 2009, 04:08:20 AM »

and it's officially done.  queue the Ewoks.
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« Reply #367 on: July 23, 2009, 07:32:38 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 23, 2009, 04:08:20 AM


Yub Yub!
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« Reply #368 on: July 23, 2009, 07:34:34 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on June 30, 2009, 10:01:15 PM

I'm currently running XP Home on my desktop. Should I be considering a Windows 7 upgrade if my machine is only a single 64 bit AMD 3500+ processor and 2 Gigs of RAM? I also have a laptop running Vista Pro that has an Intel dual core T5800 (2.0 GHz) and 4 Gigs of RAM.

if you're a pc gamer, yes. if not, it's up to you. but you the OS will future proof your system.
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« Reply #369 on: September 02, 2009, 07:31:29 PM »

So when is this looking to show up on the doorstep? RTM is in process how long does that take? I want to do a reinstall but want to wait for it.
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« Reply #370 on: September 02, 2009, 07:50:18 PM »

October 22nd, from what I can see.
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Chaz
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« Reply #371 on: September 02, 2009, 07:53:23 PM »

Does anyone know for sure if I'll need to do a clean install of the full version when it shows up to upgrade from the RC? I can't remember if I read that you can just input the key, or if you need to do a full install.  Or can I at least do an in-place reinstall?
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« Reply #372 on: September 02, 2009, 09:18:31 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 02, 2009, 07:50:18 PM

October 22nd, from what I can see.

Yep that's when Amazon tells me it will arrive (with release day shipping)
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« Reply #373 on: September 03, 2009, 01:25:28 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on September 02, 2009, 07:50:18 PM

October 22nd, from what I can see.
Hmm, that's a little farther off than I wanted to wait. I have a 74GB raptor I will be using for my OS drive up from the current 36GB one.
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« Reply #374 on: September 03, 2009, 04:26:37 AM »

Quote from: Chaz on September 02, 2009, 07:53:23 PM

Does anyone know for sure if I'll need to do a clean install of the full version when it shows up to upgrade from the RC? I can't remember if I read that you can just input the key, or if you need to do a full install.  Or can I at least do an in-place reinstall?

I think I remember seeing that you'd need to do a clean install, but Brendan said the transfer apps & settings wizard thingy was supposed to make it fairly easy ... or something. I think you export your current info, load Win 7 final, then import the info via the wizard. Either way, I don't care. I'll make an afternoon of it and get it all set up, because I know I'll then be set for a good long while.
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« Reply #375 on: September 04, 2009, 01:23:10 PM »

Sorry - forgot about this thread.

With respect to doing an in-place upgrade from RC to RTM (which preserves your data, your apps, etc), it's technically blocked, but you can workaround it using a pretty simple method.  You still can't switch architectures though, so if you're running the x86 RC, you're not going to be able to move to the x64 RTM build.  FWIW, when using the method in the linked post, you don't actually need to make a whole new copy of the OS image - it copies cversion.ini to your hard drive in the upgrade cache, so you can run setup, let it get to the screen before the upgrade compliance check, then just alt-tab to a command prompt and edit the version of cversion.ini in the oddly named directory at the root of your drive (I want to say it's ~windows.BT, but I can't recall honestly).

Anyway, I did this repeatedly during the product cycle, but YMMV. smile
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« Reply #376 on: October 24, 2009, 06:17:30 PM »

Now that this is retail and installed and running on two computers at my house I gotta say that W7 is friggen awesome.  I skipped Vista, so I never got a chance to use the Aero theme and new setup and I love it.  Yes I have OSX 10.6 also and I still think W7 is sweet.
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« Reply #377 on: October 24, 2009, 09:57:46 PM »

Agreed. Someone was nice enough to hook me up with the ISO for the full release of Home Premium X64 about a week before the retail release and it's been awesome. I just installed with no serial number and ignored the activation messages for a week or so. Went to the system properties window after my retail copy came and used the change product key feature to put in my retail serial number, then went ahead and activated. Worked like a charm.

The whole thing is really slick. It feels leaner than XP, but a significant portion of that might be attributable to my switch to an SSD for my OS/App drive. It's hard to separate the two really. Even so, I have no complaints about Win 7.

The only problem I've had since my build was a stability issue with gaming and certain memory hungry apps. Right about the time I started to blame Windows 7 I went back and worked my way down the hardware list bit by bit and ended up running a memory test. Whadda ya know, I had bad RAM. It detected properly and seemed to run fine, but I'll be damned if it didn't cause random crashes in every program/app/game I ran. The windows memory diagnostic detected problems with it before the test even reached 2% completion.

Ditched the G.Skill for some Mushkin and it's been smooth sailing ever since.

Really, really happy.
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« Reply #378 on: October 24, 2009, 10:50:37 PM »

I just did the upgrade on my desktop last night and it went very smooth. Now I'm hoping that Dell will send me the upgrade for the laptop before I leave the country so I can upgrade the laptop as well.

I'm liking it so far and the upgrade process was extremely smooth. I think MS got it right this time.
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« Reply #379 on: October 24, 2009, 11:25:28 PM »

I have a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate sitting next to me, but unfortunately 1) Apple hasn't released official Boot Camp support for it yet - normally I would ignore this and install anyway, there's many reports saying it works fine, but there's also 2) I've got a few games on my backlog that's from the XP days - they don't work 100% on Vista, so I'll presume it won't on 7, either. Once I finish those games, I'll move on from XP forever.

(What're the games? Aliens vs. Predator, Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2, FEAR, System Shock 2, Deus Ex. I'm just putting those here in case someone could refute my statements and tell me they could be made to run fine in 7, because I'd be very grateful if I hear that smile)
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« Reply #380 on: October 24, 2009, 11:49:31 PM »

If it makes you feel any better, my GF has been running the RC1 of Win7 on her imac since June or July via bootcamp with no problems.

I've got my copy sitting here, but I haven't gotten around to doing the full backup and reinstall process yet.  I hate doing it so I'm putting it off as long as I can.  biggrin
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« Reply #381 on: October 25, 2009, 06:31:41 AM »

I have to admit it, Win7 is pretty nice.  Not surprising since it's now closer to Linux than ever before. slywink  I like the Aero interface, libraries could take some getting used to but I don't find them annoying like some people do.  UAC doesn't bother me at all - I never used Vista and I understand it's better now than it was on Vista, but coming from Linux which has always asked for your admin password before changing system settings I'm not fazed in the slightest, and it's certainly a stronger security model than the one XP used.

It hasn't been without its problems though.  It's just not as stable yet as XP was after a couple of service packs.  In fact, last night my PC locked up completely.  I can't remember the last time that happened whilst running XP or Linux.  Very annoying, I hope it doesn't become too common.  Oh yeah, and despite all the "you wanted fewer clicks" rhetoric, it now takes bloody ages to dig out the defragger!

(Why on Earth are we still defragging disks in 2009?  Come on Microsoft, sort it out, I never have to defrag my Linux partitions)

Question.  If an installed game doesn't automatically go into the Games library, how do I force it in?
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« Reply #382 on: October 25, 2009, 10:08:06 AM »

Quote from: ravenvii on October 24, 2009, 11:25:28 PM

I have a copy of Windows 7 Ultimate sitting next to me, but unfortunately 1) Apple hasn't released official Boot Camp support for it yet - normally I would ignore this and install anyway, there's many reports saying it works fine, but there's also 2) I've got a few games on my backlog that's from the XP days - they don't work 100% on Vista, so I'll presume it won't on 7, either. Once I finish those games, I'll move on from XP forever.

(What're the games? Aliens vs. Predator, Call of Duty, Call of Duty 2, FEAR, System Shock 2, Deus Ex. I'm just putting those here in case someone could refute my statements and tell me they could be made to run fine in 7, because I'd be very grateful if I hear that smile)

Don't you receive a Windows XP virtual machine when you install Ultimate?
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« Reply #383 on: October 25, 2009, 10:10:57 AM »

Sorry, but havent read through the 10 pages of text, but I have a question - Is Windows 7 faster to use with games, than Vista 32, no matter your system?
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« Reply #384 on: October 25, 2009, 10:21:38 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 25, 2009, 06:31:41 AM

It hasn't been without its problems though.  It's just not as stable yet as XP was after a couple of service packs.

Yes it is. You should check that you're not having hardware or driver problems. Win7 shouldn't crash at all, and hasn't for me on 3 different systems since the RC release.

Quote
Oh yeah, and despite all the "you wanted fewer clicks" rhetoric, it now takes bloody ages to dig out the defragger!

Here's an important part of the Win7 interface that you need to learn: Want to do something with it, for example access a specific part of the Control Panel? Just hit the Windows key and type its name, or part of it. Typing "defrag", for example, brings up the Disk Defragmenter shortcut. You can use Enter to start the shortcut too, so if you only get one hit you can quickly hit the Windows key, type a search word, and hit Enter. Once you get used to this, you'll never open the Control Panel again.

Quote
Question.  If an installed game doesn't automatically go into the Games library, how do I force it in?

The same way you add links elsewhere. Just drag the game launcher in there.
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #385 on: October 25, 2009, 10:29:38 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 25, 2009, 10:21:38 AM


Yes it is. You should check that you're not having hardware or driver problems. Win7 shouldn't crash at all, and hasn't for me on 3 different systems since the RC release.

Are you saying with confidence that Win7 doesn't have any bugs? slywink

Yes it's more likely a hardware/driver issue, but whatever it is, Win7 is not as stable as XP on my PC.

Quote
Here's an important part of the Win7 interface that you need to learn: Want to do something with it, for example access a specific part of the Control Panel? Just hit the Windows key and type its name, or part of it. Typing "defrag", for example, brings up the Disk Defragmenter shortcut. You can use Enter to start the shortcut too, so if you only get one hit you can quickly hit the Windows key, type a search word, and hit Enter. Once you get used to this, you'll never open the Control Panel again.

Thanks for the info.  Hmm, I don't really like doing things that way to be honest.  Ubuntu tried to do the same with some widget on its UNR and I had to get rid of it in the end.

Quote
The same way you add links elsewhere. Just drag the game launcher in there.

Really?  I could've sworn I'd already tried that.  I'll have another look.
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« Reply #386 on: October 25, 2009, 10:36:09 AM »

Quote from: ROTC1983 on October 25, 2009, 10:08:06 AM

Don't you receive a Windows XP virtual machine when you install Ultimate?

Yeah, but Virtual XP has no 3D support, so it's next to useless for gaming.
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« Reply #387 on: October 25, 2009, 11:12:15 AM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 25, 2009, 10:29:38 AM

Are you saying with confidence that Win7 doesn't have any bugs? slywink

No, I never said anything remotely close to that.
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« Reply #388 on: October 25, 2009, 11:16:54 AM »

You said Win7 shouldn't crash at all.  Can't bugs make it crash?
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« Reply #389 on: October 25, 2009, 01:13:40 PM »

Yes they can. What is your point, exactly? Are you not familiar with the word "should"?  icon_neutral
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« Reply #390 on: October 25, 2009, 01:20:56 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 25, 2009, 06:31:41 AM

Oh yeah, and despite all the "you wanted fewer clicks" rhetoric, it now takes bloody ages to dig out the defragger!

Like a lot of things in Windows 7 accessing the disc defragger is as simple as hitting the windows key and typing "defrag".  It should be at the top of the list in the search box.  I never used that search much in XP but it seems very quick in Windows 7.
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« Reply #391 on: October 25, 2009, 01:43:27 PM »

Yeah, that search feature is really powerful too. You don't even have to go into Help. Last night I typed in "show...." and it instantly pulled up the question I was asking - "How the hell do you get to Show Hidden Files and Folders?"  icon_biggrin

You should also go in and check out all the cool features they have for monitoring performance and system issues. It's stuff most people will never see, which is a shame because it's very powerful compared to previous versions of Windows. Windows 7 should be really stable (I ran the RC candidate since release with nary a crash), but if you do have issues there are a ton of tools built-in that you can use for troubleshooting.
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Huw the Poo
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« Reply #392 on: October 25, 2009, 02:01:39 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 25, 2009, 01:13:40 PM

Yes they can. What is your point, exactly? Are you not familiar with the word "should"?  icon_neutral

No, Tilt.  I'm not.  Clearly I've never heard of the word before.

YellowKing - thanks.  That was a helpful response.  I'm still digging through all the features, there's quite a lot to get through!
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« Reply #393 on: October 25, 2009, 02:35:59 PM »

I ran the W7 RC from May-Sep and thought it was great on my 3.5 year old PC. The only negative for me (and I am sure this is only a factor because my PC is getting a little long in the tooth) is that gaming performance was a bit slower - more so on newer games. For example, the Batman Arkham Asylum demo was unplayable on Windows 7 with all settings set to low at its lowest resolution. On XP the demo is quite playable at 1680x1050 on low settings. Similarly, the Risen demo also performs better for me in XP than 7 (keeping in mind Risen's minimum video card is actually better than what I have). I am sure this is a non-factor for the vast majority of people who would upgrade to 7. I do really miss Aero and the other interface improvements, but I am content to wait until my next PC for it. Aero, etc. never impressed me all that much in Vista. It seems like they improved it a lot in 7.
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« Reply #394 on: October 25, 2009, 02:40:37 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on October 24, 2009, 11:49:31 PM

If it makes you feel any better, my GF has been running the RC1 of Win7 on her imac since June or July via bootcamp with no problems.

It runs pretty well on the desktops, but AAPL needs to release drivers for the macbooks - until then,  battery life drops considerably because power consumption isn't being managed appropriately.
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« Reply #395 on: October 25, 2009, 02:43:49 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 25, 2009, 11:16:54 AM

You said Win7 shouldn't crash at all.  Can't bugs make it crash?

BSODs can only be caused by kernel mode code - that means bad drivers, hardware problems, or bugs in the kernel.  I guarantee you you haven't seen the latter in Win 7.
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« Reply #396 on: October 25, 2009, 02:45:38 PM »

Huw - I use the start - search for everything now.  It's fantastic.   Basically click the start/windows icon and just start typing....it brings up everything that matches your text.  Makes it super easy to find and launch any program.
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« Reply #397 on: October 25, 2009, 02:48:16 PM »

Quote from: leo8877 on October 25, 2009, 02:45:38 PM

Huw - I use the start - search for everything now.  It's fantastic.   Basically click the start/windows icon and just start typing....it brings up everything that matches your text.  Makes it super easy to find and launch any program.

Does your keyboard have a Windows key on it?  Can use that, too, instead of using the mouse to click.
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« Reply #398 on: October 25, 2009, 04:21:54 PM »

Well, I didn't like it on Ubuntu but I'm open to giving it a try.  It has to be easier than clicking through a load of menus.

Quote from: Brendan on October 25, 2009, 02:43:49 PM

BSODs can only be caused by kernel mode code - that means bad drivers, hardware problems, or bugs in the kernel.  I guarantee you you haven't seen the latter in Win 7.

It wasn't a BSOD.  I was switching users.  I switched to one, then while switching back to the first the screen went black and never recovered.  I was able to move the still-visible mouse pointer but that was it.  I gave it five-ten minutes then had to force the PC to reset since ctrl-alt-del didn't work.
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« Reply #399 on: October 25, 2009, 04:42:26 PM »

Quote from: Huw the Poo on October 25, 2009, 04:21:54 PM

Well, I didn't like it on Ubuntu but I'm open to giving it a try.  It has to be easier than clicking through a load of menus.

Quote from: Brendan on October 25, 2009, 02:43:49 PM

BSODs can only be caused by kernel mode code - that means bad drivers, hardware problems, or bugs in the kernel.  I guarantee you you haven't seen the latter in Win 7.

It wasn't a BSOD.  I was switching users.  I switched to one, then while switching back to the first the screen went black and never recovered.  I was able to move the still-visible mouse pointer but that was it.  I gave it five-ten minutes then had to force the PC to reset since ctrl-alt-del didn't work.
I've had a 'user not available' error a couple of times on my home pc (local user) and work pc (ad/domain user). Sounds like you hit something similar.
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