Windows 7 Beta

[Brendan]

oh wow, the xp virtualization is freakin sweet.

Need more info. My google-foo is weak this morning.

Sure thing.

[Victoria Raverna]

Doesn't seem to support 3D acceleration. Without that, it is not that useful for gamers to run games that are incompatible with Vista/Windows 7.

[TiLT]

Doesn't seem to support 3D acceleration. Without that, it is not that useful for gamers to run games that are incompatible with Vista/Windows 7.

Which is why it isn't even in the Home version of Windows 7. It's not meant for ordinary consumers, it's meant for businesses that need to be able to use their old software that might not be directly Windows 7 compatible.

[farley2k]

ImgBurn - http://www.imgburn.com/


Oops... warning beat me to it.

+2

I can't figure out why anyone would buy burning software anymore when there are so many free alternatives which were just as well or better.

[LoneStarSpur]

ImgBurn - http://www.imgburn.com/


Oops... warning beat me to it.

+2

I can't figure out why anyone would buy burning software anymore when there are so many free alternatives which were just as well or better.

Yeah, that worked really well...thanks for the link.

Thanks, Brendan, for the link to the XP stuff.

[Brendan]

Thanks, Brendan, for the link to the XP stuff.

No problem.  The docs are pretty good, but if you have any trouble getting it setup, let me know.  The most frequent problem people have is not having a machine that's VT capable (or not enabling it in the BIOS).

[Brendan]

Kagath, the two versions are the 32-bit (x86) and 64-bit (x64) versions. If you've got more than 2 GB RAM in your computer, download the 64-bit version. Otherwise you might want to stick with the other one.

Just wanted to make a clarification here - you need an x64 capable proc to run the x64 version; if you have an older machine, with a proc prior to the Core 2 (in the Intel line), you're going to be stuck w/ the x86 version.  If you do have an x64 machine, there's no compelling reason to run the x86 version on it given that WOW64 does a pretty admirable job of running 32-bit apps at this point.

[JCC]

I'm at the point where I am considering reinstalling XP on my machine to clean things up and hopefully clear up some general wacky pc behavior, and am toying with the idea of trying out Windows 7 until Microsoft makes it not free anymore at which point I'd go back to XP. Is there any good reason for me NOT to try Windows 7 (other than having to reinstall XP in March at the earliest)?

My computer has an AMD 64 x2 3800 CPU. I only have 2G of RAM. Is there a good reason to still run the 64 bit version? Is there a good reason not to run it?

Thanks for the answers all.

[TiLT]

Is there any good reason for me NOT to try Windows 7 (other than having to reinstall XP in March at the earliest)?

Yes. You won't be able to go back to XP after trying Windows 7 for yourself. You may consider that a drawback.

[ibdoomed]

ImgBurn - http://www.imgburn.com/


Oops... warning beat me to it.

+2

I can't figure out why anyone would buy burning software anymore when there are so many free alternatives which were just as well or better.

And those companies will soon disappear now that W7 supports image burning natively.

[farley2k]

And those companies will soon disappear now that W7 supports image burning natively.

Well Windows supports playing MP3s, video files, photo editing, word processing, and a lot of other stuff too but there is still a thriving market for 3rd party software.  If their burning support is to burning as wordpad is to text editing I will be getting some 3rd party software. 

[ibdoomed]

And those companies will soon disappear now that W7 supports image burning natively.

Well Windows supports playing MP3s, video files, photo editing, word processing, and a lot of other stuff too but there is still a thriving market for 3rd party software.  If their burning support is to burning as wordpad is to text editing I will be getting some 3rd party software. 

Erm ok. I don't see the analogy. Everything you've listed above has a needy UI and features involved in differentiating themselves. Burning an image file is putting bytes on a disc in the exact same order as they were read, what more than "working..." and "Done" is there to it?

[JCC]

One thing I forgot to ask about. 4 days ago there was some talk about Cisco VPN client not working. Has anyone gotten it to work? Does it only not work on the 64 bit version?

[LoneStarSpur]

One thing I forgot to ask about. 4 days ago there was some talk about Cisco VPN client not working. Has anyone gotten it to work? Does it only not work on the 64 bit version?

I might get to play around with it tonight...come to think of it, if I don't do it tonight it will be next week before I get a chance to.

I'll let you know if I can get it working with the virtual XP thing.

[Rich]

The installation went w/o a hitch. Still not any good native drivers though. I had to track down some old sound drivers for my mobo, oh well. No chipset drivers included either, I thought they were adding in all that shit now? Maybe it's retail release.

Anyways I don't notice much of a difference over 7000, but the fact that this won't expire in 3 months is a plus.

This isn't 100% what you were talking about but I do know that both Nvidia and Creative have working W7 drivers on their sites and Nvidia just put out new ones the end of last week that aren't on the RC1 .iso, for anything else I've been downloading and installing vista64 drivers and haven't had problems on the original beta not RC1.  With the original public beta I had a huge problem getting Open Office to install, I eventually got it to install by doing yet another clean install of the beta and installing OOo as my very first step before doing any windows updates.  I probably won't try the RC1 until this weekend but I'd be curious to know if anyone has had any problems installing OOo to it.

[JCC]

One thing I forgot to ask about. 4 days ago there was some talk about Cisco VPN client not working. Has anyone gotten it to work? Does it only not work on the 64 bit version?

I might get to play around with it tonight...come to think of it, if I don't do it tonight it will be next week before I get a chance to.

I'll let you know if I can get it working with the virtual XP thing.

Apparently my CPU doesn't support running the Virtual PC stuff, so I would need Cisco VPN Client to work in Windows 7 to make installing it viable. It seems like it can be made to run in 32 bit Windows 7 although they recommend a newer version than the one my company provides me. So, I am getting cold feet about trying out Windows 7 now...

[Brendan]

I don't use the Cisco VPN client, but I've seen reports that 5.0.05 works without problems on Win 7.

[ibdoomed]

One thing I forgot to ask about. 4 days ago there was some talk about Cisco VPN client not working. Has anyone gotten it to work? Does it only not work on the 64 bit version?

I might get to play around with it tonight...come to think of it, if I don't do it tonight it will be next week before I get a chance to.

I'll let you know if I can get it working with the virtual XP thing.

Apparently my CPU doesn't support running the Virtual PC stuff, so I would need Cisco VPN Client to work in Windows 7 to make installing it viable. It seems like it can be made to run in 32 bit Windows 7 although they recommend a newer version than the one my company provides me. So, I am getting cold feet about trying out Windows 7 now...

My wife works from home and needs a cisco vpn to connect to her office. Her desktop is vista64 while her laptop is vista32. Last I heard, she says that someone told her that cisco didn't make or plan on making a 64bit version for some reason I forget now (because the MS part is built in maybe?). Anyway, I'll ask her again but something else I thought of: hard drives are so cheap these days, you could get a spare to toss in and try W7, then just put the old one back if it doesn't work out.

[ibdoomed]

I don't use the Cisco VPN client, but I've seen reports that 5.0.05 works without problems on Win 7.

Is that on 64bit or 32bit?

[JCC]

From Cisco's FAQ

Cisco VPN Client Version 5 is available for 32-bit Windows Vista. There are no current plans to provide 64-bit support for the Cisco VPN Client but 64-bit support is available for the Cisco AnyConnect VPN Client

My company doesn't offer this so I will definitely have to stick with 32 bit W7 if I decide to try it. I will probably make installing the VPN Client the first post-driver thing I install to see if I keep it.

[Canuck]

With the original public beta I had a huge problem getting Open Office to install, I eventually got it to install by doing yet another clean install of the beta and installing OOo as my very first step before doing any windows updates.  I probably won't try the RC1 until this weekend but I'd be curious to know if anyone has had any problems installing OOo to it.

I installed a freshly downloaded copy of OO last night and it worked like a charm.  Absolutely no problems at all.

[LoneStarSpur]

Got the virtual XP thing working on my 64-bit box. Cisco installed fine on the XP virtual machine, connected to work fine, but I couldn't hit anything on the inside of my work network. I'll keep poking around.

Pretty neat stuff.

[Canuck]

I got to say, I'm a little ticked off with the dirty trick that Microsoft has pulled on me.  If Microsoft had suddenly been vaporized into nothingness next week, I would have been more than happy to stick with Windows XP for the rest of my life.  But then they come out and say, "Here, take this practically finished version of our Ultimate product line and use it for free for almost an entire year."  Who could say no to that?  And now they've totally gone and ruined Windows XP for me and now I'll have to purchase a new operating system next year!

By the way, I'd like to install Windows 7 on my other laptop.  Would I be able to take the install file and the same cd key and install it on my other laptop or would that cause problems?  Or should I just sign up with another email account and get a different cd key?

[TiLT]

I've heard you can use the same key for 3 different computers, so you should be able to use it. On the other hand, the keys are free, so there's no reason not to get another one.

[Laner]

IIRC (and Brendan can verify or deny), there are ten keys available in total (5 for x86, 5 for x64) with an unlimited number of activations.

[Brendan]

I've heard you can use the same key for 3 different computers, so you should be able to use it. On the other hand, the keys are free, so there's no reason not to get another one.

IIRC (and Brendan can verify or deny), there are ten keys available in total (5 for x86, 5 for x64) with an unlimited number of activations.

I don't grab keys from the external site at all, but I just confirmed with the guy who owns keys that it's 5 activations per key.  They shouldn't be architecture specific.  AFAIK, a key installs a specific SKU, not a specific SKU/arch combo, so if they let you grab 5 of each, they're really letting you grab 10 of one.

Fun tool - slmgr.vbs, a command line utility that ships in the OS, uses WMI to give you data on your current licensing state.  If you run slmgr.vbs -dlv from an elevated command prompt, it'll dumb the license expiry info, activation state, etc.  You can use it for plenty of other purposes (like remotely activating another machine), but that's one that comes in handy if you're looking to verify what key you used or whatever.

[DamageInc]

I'm not fooling around with the RC, but I have been reading up on the new OS.

Here's a pretty good Tech link on how to use their migration tool, USMT

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/dd671583.aspx?ITPID=tnflash

You can view in WMP or Silverlight off their site.

[Kagath]

What is the footprint size for RC1? I have a 74gb raptor that I will be using a the OS drive that I want to partition and dual boot. Just wondering if a 50/50 would be good for a trial sizing?

[LoneStarSpur]

What is the footprint size for RC1? I have a 74gb raptor that I will be using a the OS drive that I want to partition and dual boot. Just wondering if a 50/50 would be good for a trial sizing?

My Windows folder is about 11gigs.

[Kagath]

What is the footprint size for RC1? I have a 74gb raptor that I will be using a the OS drive that I want to partition and dual boot. Just wondering if a 50/50 would be good for a trial sizing?

My Windows folder is about 11gigs.

Huh, that seems much smaller than Vista Ultimate. Cool thanks.

[JCC]

So tonight I took the plunge. I am mildly impressed. It was amusing as I was disappointed by the slow install time and not so quick boot up, and then I realized that 7 installed itself without clearing out my hard drive! (which was low on space...) So, after directing it to format and installing again the install and boot times are much more snappy now. Aside from boot times, it seems to pretty much look like Vista, but I haven't done much with it yet. I don't think I have the heart to mess with the Cisco VPN Client tonight (I did install 32 bit), so that fun will be saved for the weekend.

[Canuck]

Just a quick question-if I have a  computer with no partition, and I throw the iso up on Daemon Tools.  Will that work?  I did that before but I installed it from Daemon Tools on a separate partition.  Or once it has extracted all the files it needs will it just install by itself no problem?

But then again, I suppose I should format my harddrive first anyways.  Maybe I should burn it to a DVD?

[Destructor]

I don't think that W7 has the ability to make a partition - at least I made another one when I installed it first.

[Brendan]

I don't think that W7 has the ability to make a partition - at least I made another one when I installed it first.

Setup can create new partitions out of unused space, or format existing partitions, but it's not going to let you resize an existing partition to create a new one.  That's what diskpart or the disk management MMC snap-in are for (or third party tools like partition magic or whatever you kids use these days).

[Canuck]

So I have an 80 GB unpartitioned HD.  If I free up 20 gigs, I can just tell the set up to make a new partition using that 20 GB?  I'm going to have to try this out tomorrow.  My computer is due for a format anyways so if anything goes wrong it won't matter too much.

[Brendan]

So I have an 80 GB unpartitioned HD.  If I free up 20 gigs, I can just tell the set up to make a new partition using that 20 GB?  I'm going to have to try this out tomorrow.  My computer is due for a format anyways so if anything goes wrong it won't matter too much.

No, you'd need to create unpartitioned space first by resizing your existing partition w/in Windows.  Here's some guy's instructions on using the disk management snap-in.

[Chaz]

Brendan, does that method let you shrink a partition, and then let you add a new partition? So, for example, shrink C: by 30GB, and then create a D: in that space? I'm assuming that the Win7 setup lets you create a new partition in the unused space?

[Brendan]

Brendan, does that method let you shrink a partition, and then let you add a new partition? So, for example, shrink C: by 30GB, and then create a D: in that space? I'm assuming that the Win7 setup lets you create a new partition in the unused space?

Yep, it limits the amount you can shrink by various factors that I'm not completely clear on - the 3rd party apps are a little more versatile, but for the easy stuff, it works well.  Setup does allow you to create/format partitions.

[Chaz]

Alright, it sounds like it should be pretty painless to create a new partition and dual boot into Win7.  I'll probably make the secondary drive ~30-40GB.  Once that's done, let's say I want to have the same game installed under both OSes, do I have to have it installed twice (taking up twice the space), or is there a way to have both OSes point at the same set of files on the C: drive? Can I install under Win7, and have the installer point to the existing folder, or will that muck up running it under Vista? Can you tell I don't dual boot ever?

[Brendan]

Unfortunately, they're separate but equal.  Most games, in Windows, create a bunch of crap on the system that's unique to the particular OS install - for example, they'll store content in the registry about install paths, screen resolution, etc.  So, while you could boot into your secondary OS, navigate to the folder in which you'd installed the game previously in the primary OS, and run the game, I'm not going to guarantee it'll work flawlessly.  It depends on how the developer implemented it.