We need fresh blood- dont we?

[Razgon]

Honestly, I'm the same - I know its probably heart wrenching and/or slightly annoying to hear but I never visit the frontpage either. It's always been about the community for me.

[heloder]

Me neither, but don't feel bad - I don't visit any news sites. I get all the news I need from the numerous web forums I frequent.

[th'FOOL]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I know there is a contingent of forum only folks here. The only thing that ever bugs me about some of you is when you refer to the forums as 'the site', as if that's all there is to Gaming Trend, but I know that's all GT ever is to you so it is what it is.

The fact of the matter is this: Our main site traffic currently has a growth rate that is inversely proportional to the decline rate of the forums. Personally, I'd like to see it all grow, but I have more control over the rest of the site than the forums in terms of attracting new people.  There needs to be a significant rethinking of how this forum works in connection to the rest of the site for that to change, and we are trying to figure that out right now. We also realize that integrating our community more tightly with the rest of the site might, in fact, alienate those of you who have no interest outside of the forums, but that's a risk we have to take.

[Harkonis]

Every now and then throw a news story on the front about the forums

[TiLT]

Interestingly, traffic to the front of the site has increased.   

Sounds like you need to point them towards the forum more then.

Well, for years we tried pointing you guys to the front of the site to no avail...

That's because I come here to read the Forum and have zero interest in getting any news from GT.  I don't think I'm the only one who feels that way.

That's too bad. You see, this is a gaming news and reviews site with a forum, not the other way around. We love providing a place for everybody to hang out and talk, but our efforts are considerably more focused on the rest of the site. You should check it out sometime.

I think we all understand that. The unique thing with GT in this regard is that (parts of) the community existed long before the site itself, so some of us approach things differently.

[wonderpug]

th'FOOL, you're kind of coming across dickish with your last few posts.  Driving forumers to the front page isn't going to do anything to increase the forum population, and if front page traffic is increasing then that's not even the problem, is it?

Most of the forum population has been around since before Console Gold existed, or at least when it was still called Console Gold.  We're all big fans of Knightshade and want him to succeed, whether or not we ourselves are in need of what the front page has to offer. 

Your posts are loudly and clearly coming across as "the main site is what's important, you guys are all secondary," which again, is a pretty dickish message to convey when most of us have been supportive of Knightshade and his endeavors since the day he asked Rich for permission to make a sister site.

[Clanwolfer]

A lot of it, and I think this is a shame, is just that time and moving sites has just split the 'original' forum population up to the point where there's no longer critical mass. I think a lot of the folks I enjoyed interacting with on the forums went even farther back than the Console Gold days, back to the original Gone Gold forums - then I think when in my life that was. When I was a more active part of that community, I was in high school, had all the time in the world, etc. The forum splits happened while I was in college, but it was cool because I had the time and energy on my hands to still follow both of the split forums pretty extensively. These days, I pretty much check here out of habit, and don't post a lot because I'm not a college kid spending all day on the Internet anymore - I've got a job that takes a bunch of time, way more non-computer-based hobbies, and when I am on a computer I'm spending my limited time playing games or doing other stuff than forums. Twitter has also sort of bumped forums down my list of 'things I do on the Internet', as well.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's had a ton of life changes in the decade-plus I've been participating in the various forums this community has drifted between. There are some fantastic folks around here, but you take any group of people with interests so varied and a few of them will drift off over time.

It sucks, but that's sort of just life. One moves on, finds other communities on other mediums, etc. I guess I could post a new non-depressing thread if it'd make anyone feel better.

[th'FOOL]

th'FOOL, you're kind of coming across dickish with your last few posts.  Driving forumers to the front page isn't going to do anything to increase the forum population, and if front page traffic is increasing then that's not even the problem, is it?

Most of the forum population has been around since before Console Gold existed, or at least when it was still called Console Gold.  We're all big fans of Knightshade and want him to succeed, whether or not we ourselves are in need of what the front page has to offer. 

Your posts are loudly and clearly coming across as "the main site is what's important, you guys are all secondary," which again, is a pretty dickish message to convey when most of us have been supportive of Knightshade and his endeavors since the day he asked Rich for permission to make a sister site.

Dickish? Maybe. Frustrated? Absolutely.

I would challenge the assertion that most of the forum population consists of Gone Gold-ers. These forums certainly did have their roots in that, but this site has been around considerably longer than Gone Gold was and the forums were not always in a state of decline. Gone Gold is long gone, and Gaming Trend has consistently provided gaming coverage and reviews under this name since 2005, and when you add in the Console Gold years for over a decade. We outgrew the concept of sister site well before the name change.

And while you consider my message dickish, realize that the staff of this site works incredibly hard to maintain the rest of the site. You call it "the front page", but it is CONSIDERABLY more than that. Forgive me if I take umbrage when you marginalize our efforts by focusing on a small part of the greater whole. So yes, to me, this forum is secondary. Any changes I'm interested in making on the forum are strictly to increase traffic and engagement across the entirety of the site.

[Harkonis]

I forget to check the main site way too much, and am always pleasantly surprised how much is there when I remember.

[wonderpug]

Dickish? Maybe. Frustrated? Absolutely.

I would challenge the assertion that most of the forum population consists of Gone Gold-ers. These forums certainly did have their roots in that, but this site has been around considerably longer than Gone Gold was and the forums were not always in a state of decline. Gone Gold is long gone, and Gaming Trend has consistently provided gaming coverage and reviews under this name since 2005, and when you add in the Console Gold years for over a decade. We outgrew the concept of sister site well before the name change.

And while you consider my message dickish, realize that the staff of this site works incredibly hard to maintain the rest of the site. You call it "the front page", but it is CONSIDERABLY more than that. Forgive me if I take umbrage when you marginalize our efforts by focusing on a small part of the greater whole. So yes, to me, this forum is secondary. Any changes I'm interested in making on the forum are strictly to increase traffic and engagement across the entirety of the site.

You seem incapable of comprehending a scenario in which a person is excited about what the main site has become and enthusiastic about GT's growth and success, but is not himself interested in visiting the main site.

[Harkonis]

How many MS points do I have to pay for this scenario? 

[th'FOOL]

Dickish? Maybe. Frustrated? Absolutely.

I would challenge the assertion that most of the forum population consists of Gone Gold-ers. These forums certainly did have their roots in that, but this site has been around considerably longer than Gone Gold was and the forums were not always in a state of decline. Gone Gold is long gone, and Gaming Trend has consistently provided gaming coverage and reviews under this name since 2005, and when you add in the Console Gold years for over a decade. We outgrew the concept of sister site well before the name change.

And while you consider my message dickish, realize that the staff of this site works incredibly hard to maintain the rest of the site. You call it "the front page", but it is CONSIDERABLY more than that. Forgive me if I take umbrage when you marginalize our efforts by focusing on a small part of the greater whole. So yes, to me, this forum is secondary. Any changes I'm interested in making on the forum are strictly to increase traffic and engagement across the entirety of the site.

You seem incapable of comprehending a scenario in which a person is excited about what the main site has become and enthusiastic about GT's growth and success, but is not himself interested in visiting the main site.

No, I comprehend it, it just makes me sad 

[Bullwinkle]

I feel like any dickishness in th'Fool's response may have been prompted by curt and dismissive posts previous to his.

[Purge]

Being "in" on the backend of the site, I think that Mike's point is valid - it just might be directly opposed to the point of the OP which is what's chafing 'pug.

I don't know if it's possible, but it might make sense to have, for every "news" post, or "review" post, a thread started by the system in its own sub-forum. This would certainly create an awareness of the news to talk about though it may hamper some of the "ah-hah! I found something for us to discuss!" threads started by members - or it may, in fact, end up duplicating posts.

Conversely, I, for one, have no problems in giving credit where due. Perhaps linking to topics in our own forum and indicating that "so-and-so" brought this to our attention (link included) - RPS interview of game producer who said blahblahblah...." so that if we notice news not posted, that we provide an option for front-readers to decide to pop in, sign up, and participate.

It certainly couldn't hurt to do so - and may help "keep" readers coming back due to the forums - a compelling group of gamers who generally aren't Internet trolls and who are genuinely engaging and fun to play with.

[rshetts2]

th'FOOL, you're kind of coming across dickish with your last few posts.  Driving forumers to the front page isn't going to do anything to increase the forum population, and if front page traffic is increasing then that's not even the problem, is it?

Most of the forum population has been around since before Console Gold existed, or at least when it was still called Console Gold.  We're all big fans of Knightshade and want him to succeed, whether or not we ourselves are in need of what the front page has to offer. 

Your posts are loudly and clearly coming across as "the main site is what's important, you guys are all secondary," which again, is a pretty dickish message to convey when most of us have been supportive of Knightshade and his endeavors since the day he asked Rich for permission to make a sister site.

Dickish? Maybe. Frustrated? Absolutely.

I would challenge the assertion that most of the forum population consists of Gone Gold-ers. These forums certainly did have their roots in that, but this site has been around considerably longer than Gone Gold was and the forums were not always in a state of decline. Gone Gold is long gone, and Gaming Trend has consistently provided gaming coverage and reviews under this name since 2005, and when you add in the Console Gold years for over a decade. We outgrew the concept of sister site well before the name change.

And while you consider my message dickish, realize that the staff of this site works incredibly hard to maintain the rest of the site. You call it "the front page", but it is CONSIDERABLY more than that. Forgive me if I take umbrage when you marginalize our efforts by focusing on a small part of the greater whole. So yes, to me, this forum is secondary. Any changes I'm interested in making on the forum are strictly to increase traffic and engagement across the entirety of the site.

I dont think people intentionally "marginalize" the main site page.  You have a forum population that goes back as far as "Gone Gold"  these people have changed over that time and so have their gaming habits.  Many of us game considerably less.  Still we enjoy the forum community.  So yes there are a number of people who come here simply for to interact with the forums.  Marginalizing those people is to marginalize your roots.  I understand your desire to drive the front page but dont forget that this site was born and bred on its forums.  Alienating the old school forumers seems awful reminiscent of the fall of Gone Gold.

[th'FOOL]

Ok, let me rein myself in here. This is a very sensitive subject for me as I spend an inordinate amount of time tweaking and improving this site on a regular basis and it cuts me to the quick when folks that I've hung out with on this board for the better part of a decade don't notice- and worse- don't care. This dichotomy of the site has always troubled me deeply and I've literally spent years trying to figure out how to break down the walls between the two sections of the site. That's on me, though, and I shouldn't vent my frustrations out on the very people who I'm trying to give a better experience.

I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel, however. And our community has, in fact, grown significantly, just not on the forums. The solutions I'm working on will hopefully tie things together a little better and push the site as a whole forward.

[Isgrimnur]

I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel, however. And our community has, in fact, grown significantly, just not on the forums. The solutions I'm working on will hopefully tie things together a little better and push the site as a whole forward.

[Purge]

I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel, however. And our community has, in fact, grown significantly, just not on the forums. The solutions I'm working on will hopefully tie things together a little better and push the site as a whole forward.

Lynch Isgrimnur

[wonderpug]

Dickish? Maybe. Frustrated? Absolutely.

I would challenge the assertion that most of the forum population consists of Gone Gold-ers. These forums certainly did have their roots in that, but this site has been around considerably longer than Gone Gold was and the forums were not always in a state of decline. Gone Gold is long gone, and Gaming Trend has consistently provided gaming coverage and reviews under this name since 2005, and when you add in the Console Gold years for over a decade. We outgrew the concept of sister site well before the name change.

And while you consider my message dickish, realize that the staff of this site works incredibly hard to maintain the rest of the site. You call it "the front page", but it is CONSIDERABLY more than that. Forgive me if I take umbrage when you marginalize our efforts by focusing on a small part of the greater whole. So yes, to me, this forum is secondary. Any changes I'm interested in making on the forum are strictly to increase traffic and engagement across the entirety of the site.

You seem incapable of comprehending a scenario in which a person is excited about what the main site has become and enthusiastic about GT's growth and success, but is not himself interested in visiting the main site.

No, I comprehend it, it just makes me sad 

GT seems like a great site for headline news, narrative reviews with graphics/sound/etc. individual scores and a total review score, and previews.  I'm not interested in any of those things anymore.  GT can become the best One of Those on the planet, and it's not going to interest me.  Other People are interested in gaming sites like that, and I sincerely hope those Other People find their way to GT and make it their favorite site on the citadel.  I get my reviews and previews from forum buzz and impressions, and I like it that way.  Headline news may trickle its way to me via forums, but even that kind of information is less interesting to me than it once was.

The closest thing to an official gaming site I read now is the PA Report, which does things in a very different way.  There are occasional 'reviews', which read more like quick impressions that I see on forums.  I just did a word count on a couple of them, and they weigh in at about 900 words, or a bit less.  In contrast, the GT review of the new Spider-Man game is pushing 2400 words.  I don't need or want to read reviews like that anymore.  Again, I'm sure other people do, but not me.  I am not your target audience.

And the reviews on the PA Report aren't even my primary reason for visiting.  I like seeing the interviews with developers, the facility tours, the opinions on the industry, and "The Cut's" distilled links to articles worth reading on sites elsewhere.

So kudos to you guys for building a traditional gaming site from the ground up.  That is no easy accomplishment, and I really am proud of how far the site has come.  Traditional gaming sites aren't for me anymore, but I'm sure there are many people who want them.  If you're looking for ways to boost your site's popularity, though, I don't know if aggressively targeting this sparsely populated forum is the best way to go.  I think there was even a thread recently talking about the dwindling activity here.

[rshetts2]

Ok, let me rein myself in here. This is a very sensitive subject for me as I spend an inordinate amount of time tweaking and improving this site on a regular basis and it cuts me to the quick when folks that I've hung out with on this board for the better part of a decade don't notice- and worse- don't care. This dichotomy of the site has always troubled me deeply and I've literally spent years trying to figure out how to break down the walls between the two sections of the site. That's on me, though, and I shouldn't vent my frustrations out on the very people who I'm trying to give a better experience.

I do feel there is a light at the end of the tunnel, however. And our community has, in fact, grown significantly, just not on the forums. The solutions I'm working on will hopefully tie things together a little better and push the site as a whole forward.

The powers that be, yourself included, Mike, have done a fantastic job with the main page.  Its an awesome gaming portal, very up to date and informative. I understand your frustration.  I myself check it out several times a week, even though my gaming habit has been limited by my life changes.  I still enjoy reading where things are heading and whats new and interesting on the horizon as well as the various reviews you provide ( though I do think your reviews are a bit too kind  Diablo 3 deserved a 20 point deduction just for how they shackled single player gaming to their servers. )  I do spend far more time on the forums but still enjoy the main page content.  If this thread does have one positive effect, hopefully it draws more forumers attentions to the rest of what GT has to offer.

[Purge]

Bah. 20 points for that? then +20 for the billions of hours its stolen from my life.

[Razgon]

The hell? Are you saying my thread has no positive effect? Well, we can hunker down under a rock and then the last one can turn out the lights, if you so please - I just think raising awareness is the right thing to do, instead of just keeping silent and trying to silence something to death.

And yes - kudos to you for the gaming site - its bloody brilliant. Its just not for me. If that makes you frustrated well..then I don't know what to tell you - Not everyone has to like everything. Like wonderpug, I simply dont have the patience to read that verbose reveiws anymore - I'm a lot more interested in what people say about it.

[th'FOOL]

The hell? Are you saying my thread has no positive effect? Well, we can hunker down under a rock and then the last one can turn out the lights, if you so please - I just think raising awareness is the right thing to do, instead of just keeping silent and trying to silence something to death.

And yes - kudos to you for the gaming site - its bloody brilliant. Its just not for me. If that makes you frustrated well..then I don't know what to tell you - Not everyone has to like everything. Like wonderpug, I simply dont have the patience to read that verbose reveiws anymore - I'm a lot more interested in what people say about it.

No, I'm not saying that at all, I just don't know what kind of positive effect you are looking for. For what it's worth, the traffic to this forum is by no means small, and we have tons of guests browsing all the time. I don't really have any control over whether or not they register and join the discussion on this forum- you guys do more than I. But I do know that this forum would be on total life-support without being part of the larger site, and what new members we have gotten over the last few years have been a result of the draw from non-forum pages. Community growth of late has been on the Facebook side of things, which in turn is driving traffic to the main site. Forum traffic is not driving traffic to the main site, and I'm trying to figure out how to close that gap at least a little. It's my job.

[th'FOOL]

Like wonderpug, I simply dont have the patience to read that verbose reveiws anymore - I'm a lot more interested in what people say about it.

This is useful feedback for me. And I agree the conversation is a vital part of the site. I'd like to see that conversation be evident everywhere it's relevant, rather than silo'd across the various places they occur.

[Razgon]

The hell? Are you saying my thread has no positive effect? Well, we can hunker down under a rock and then the last one can turn out the lights, if you so please - I just think raising awareness is the right thing to do, instead of just keeping silent and trying to silence something to death.

And yes - kudos to you for the gaming site - its bloody brilliant. Its just not for me. If that makes you frustrated well..then I don't know what to tell you - Not everyone has to like everything. Like wonderpug, I simply dont have the patience to read that verbose reveiws anymore - I'm a lot more interested in what people say about it.

No, I'm not saying that at all, I just don't know what kind of positive effect you are looking for. For what it's worth, the traffic to this forum is by no means small, and we have tons of guests browsing all the time. I don't really have any control over whether or not they register and join the discussion on this forum- you guys do more than I. But I do know that this forum would be on total life-support without being part of the larger site, and what new members we have gotten over the last few years have been a result of the draw from non-forum pages. Community growth of late has been on the Facebook side of things, which in turn is driving traffic to the main site. Forum traffic is not driving traffic to the main site, and I'm trying to figure out how to close that gap at least a little. It's my job.

Apologies - I was talking to Rshetts2, which wasnt clear - Sorry about that :-)

Positive effect is just raising awareness. If I had the answer myself, I'd post it ;-) As for forum traffic and site traffic you are of course right - I really do think its because this particular medium no longer is as interesting as it used to be.

What we can do about it, well, personally I'd like a merger of forums as mentioned upthread and the articles idea going to a forum post is actually a good idea that I've thought of myself but never could figure out how to do elegantly. But having a subforum devoted to articles is a pretty good idea, actually.

And as for feedback - I'm glad you can use that...I don't know if its shorter attention span or what have we, but yeah - your reviews are too verbose for me to get through.

[wonderpug]

Forum traffic is not driving traffic to the main site, and I'm trying to figure out how to close that gap at least a little. It's my job.

I really don't understand your need for having the forums be such a big source of main site traffic.  It just seems like a fundamentally flawed concept to hope that the site's integrated forums are going to be the source of new readership.  Is there another site that you know of that works that way? 

[Purge]

I think there's a gap here - Mike is hoping that since, we as forum dwellers spend so much time reading here, that reading and showing activity on the front-end also increases front-side traffic.

If you have a storefront that has a backroom, you'd rather people be seen coming in the front door and creating more visible traffic, rather than entering into the back door.

As a backroom dweller, you have no interest in being forced into the front door - so you're not. Mike is trying to find a compromise as traffic means ad views, as well as visible demand for the GT product. This is a good thing for GT paying for itself, and at some point, being able to employ folks.

[CeeKay]

yes we do need fresh blood,and because you brought it up...i say it should be yours,CK is currently out shopping for our Robes   

and they're FAB-YOO-LOUS!

[th'FOOL]

Forum traffic is not driving traffic to the main site, and I'm trying to figure out how to close that gap at least a little. It's my job.

I really don't understand your need for having the forums be such a big source of main site traffic.  It just seems like a fundamentally flawed concept to hope that the site's integrated forums are going to be the source of new readership.  Is there another site that you know of that works that way? 

Yeah, that's not necessarily what I am hoping, however these forums get indexed by google and considerable traffic does come into these pages via a google search. If a discussion about Max Payne 3 existed on the forums that also more directly linked to the review and other articles about Max Payne 3 there would be more symbiosis between the two sections. Right now they are silo'd. The goal is to have more discussion within the community, and if the disparate areas where discussion can occur are more tied together then the discussion is seen as a whole.

I don't anticipate the forums being a big source of traffic to the main site, but I am interested in the folks chatting about something on the forums at least be aware that news and discussions are happening elsewhere on the site about the same topics.

[th'FOOL]

I think there's a gap here - Mike is hoping that since, we as forum dwellers spend so much time reading here, that reading and showing activity on the front-end also increases front-side traffic.

If you have a storefront that has a backroom, you'd rather people be seen coming in the front door and creating more visible traffic, rather than entering into the back door.

As a backroom dweller, you have no interest in being forced into the front door - so you're not. Mike is trying to find a compromise as traffic means ad views, as well as visible demand for the GT product. This is a good thing for GT paying for itself, and at some point, being able to employ folks.

EXACTLY

[Ironrod]

I think there's a gap here - Mike is hoping that since, we as forum dwellers spend so much time reading here, that reading and showing activity on the front-end also increases front-side traffic.

If you have a storefront that has a backroom, you'd rather people be seen coming in the front door and creating more visible traffic, rather than entering into the back door.

As a backroom dweller, you have no interest in being forced into the front door - so you're not. Mike is trying to find a compromise as traffic means ad views, as well as visible demand for the GT product. This is a good thing for GT paying for itself, and at some point, being able to employ folks.

EXACTLY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKBRtdp2e98

[Isgrimnur]

Maybe you guys could tie in the preview posts and reviews into the CeeKaybot threads to drive traffic into the forums. 

"Here's a news item about Resident Evil 6!  If you'd like to discuss the game, we have a forum topic filled with discussion by forum and other staff members!"  I think it would be helpful once you have single sing-in working.

[wonderpug]

I think it would be helpful once you have single sing-in working.

Oh we've got this notion
That we'd quite like this place to grow some
But we can't build our readership
Until we get some food.

Eidle-eidle eee
Eidle-eidle eee
We can't build our readership
Unless we get some foood...

[Isgrimnur]

[Calavera]

Perhaps if you tied the main site's articles to the forums by posting a new message in an 'Articles' board with the first paragraph of the article and a link back to the article, that would help drive traffic both ways? It doesn't look like anyone is really using the built-in comments system you have now.

The Escapist works this way pretty well. The don't use a comments system on their articles, it is really just threads on their forums.  Granted, they also have Facebook threads, so there's that.

I think this might be what Isgrimnur is suggesting, as well...

[kronovan]

OK, just because my last post was silly - something more serious. As recent as about 3 years ago, I often posted links to articles on the front page in threads I created. I stopped doing it because there never seemed to be much interest with those threads. About a year later I stopped going to the front page and created favorite links directly to the forums and that's been my habit ever since. So I guess through that process I might have become part of the problem - if in fact there is a problem.

I don't think the Frontdesk - Back lobby disconnect that seems to be at issue here is unique to gamingtrend. The difference is that with a site that advertises and sells their own manufactured products on their front page, customers hanging out in the lobby/forums is a sign of good health as those are customers the company previously bought and are keeping. Whereas for a site such as gamingtrend that sells constantly changing informational (previews, reviews, news) products, its less than ideal. Bottom line - if front page traffic is what's critical for this site, you folks at GT need to come up with compelling reasons for forum members to visit that page and make it (single-click) as easy as possible.

Despite feeling that there's a bit of jading amongst forum members (myself included) I think the current state of things is fine. As well, being this far out from the last console release window, is a slowdown in forums on a gaming site not uncommon and to be expected?

[Harkonis]

It already IS only a single click to get from forums to front page.  Click the word GAMINGTREND in the upper left

[Knightshade Dragon]

The closest thing to an official gaming site I read now is the PA Report, which does things in a very different way.  There are occasional 'reviews', which read more like quick impressions that I see on forums.  I just did a word count on a couple of them, and they weigh in at about 900 words, or a bit less.  In contrast, the GT review of the new Spider-Man game is pushing 2400 words.  I don't need or want to read reviews like that anymore.  Again, I'm sure other people do, but not me.  I am not your target audience.

This is my fault.  When I write (and you'll see it in every review) I try to be as absolutely thorough as possible.  When you play a game that is fantastic for 4 hours, and then completely breaks for the last 4 hours, it's hard to not say "I need to make sure that doesn't happen on my watch - people need to know the real score" and make it your mission.  This tends to extend my reviews as I try to cover every aspect of the game.  The last thing I want to do is ever let this community down, and I feel like if I let something that is just downright broken slip by me and you waste 60 bucks on what amounts to a coaster, then I absolutely have let you down. 

I want to run a site you want to read.  I want to do what you guys want to see.   I can't spawn conversation, so I work on getting as many reviews as I can.  Videos are always better than descriptive text, so we've finally got a fairly hefty stream of those.   You tell me what you want, and I'll do it.  I want this to be a community that you would be proud of.  No...not proud of, but proud enough to tell your friends, and tell their friends, and their friends.  I want you to drag people here for the conversation.   I'm ashamed to say that despite over a quarter of a million visitors hitting this site a month, I just don't know how to make the front page and the forums into one cohesive community.   I feel like one one hand I'm succeeding in a way that eclipses anything I could have imagined, and on the other hand I'm failing in a way that makes me just want to stop.   

[wonderpug]

Well I'm sure you'll find a whole host of opinions on what people want out of a gaming site, but I can say that for me, what Ben Kuchera is doing with The PA Report is just about perfect.  I don't care for every editorial he does, or every article he links to, but for the most part he scratches my gaming news itch in exactly the right spot. 

His summary is a better one than I could do:

THE PENNY ARCADE REPORT
"Games Journalism" is broken. Many sites suffer from forced output cycles, "news" about cakes, and playing along with the industry PR machine. We can do better.

EDITORIAL
Penny Arcade has never been about breaking news, and this is no time to start. Our focus will be on longer form journalism with in-depth research, interviews and data, highlighting aspects of the gaming lifestyle that many would miss at first glance. Reviews and previews of games and hardware will certainly be a part of the content, but the discussion will be less on specs and more on experience. We want people to not only see new aspects of the industry, but think about games in a different way.

THE CUT
We know you're a busy person. You've got a job, a life, and of course, all those games you need to play. Trying to wade through the hundreds of stories each day doesn't seem reasonable, unless you're like us and part of your job is to do just that. The editorial staff at the PA Report will be selecting three to five stories each day - The Cut - that we feel you absolutely should not miss. They will focus on cultural and industry relevance with the goal of keeping you up to date without making you read every headline out there.

If you want to cater to people like me, follow his model.  I would love to see more sites like that.

[th'FOOL]

We've been watching the PA Report very closely- I think it's some of the best and most consistent gaming writing out there right now. And it's one guy. Polygon (The Verge) is impressive as well.

We've been floating around some ideas, and it's interesting how some of you guys are echoing some of the stuff we've been throwing around. Keep it coming