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Author Topic: Two Atheists visit the newly-opened Creation Museum. Hilarity ensues  (Read 3282 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: June 17, 2007, 02:13:46 PM »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/n1c0star/sets/72157600335006271/

Told through the power of pictures.  I believe in God, but I'm not a damned idiot...who the hell made this museum?!
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« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2007, 02:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on June 17, 2007, 02:13:46 PM

http://www.flickr.com/photos/n1c0star/sets/72157600335006271/

Told through the power of pictures.  I believe in God, but I'm not a damned idiot...who the hell made this museum?!

A damned idiot.
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« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2007, 02:49:28 PM »

What the holy fuck?

Quote
"Biology research suggests that the pair of rhinoceroses on the Ark diversified into perhaps 200-300 species in the first centuries after the Flood. God probably placed the potential for variety into the rhinos original creation."

I couldn't spit out shit that insane if I tried.
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« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2007, 04:28:16 PM »

I never knew that we have weeds just because Adam sinned. That bastard!

That was great. I want to go there just to people watch.
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« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2007, 04:37:51 PM »

Museums: they aren't just for learning anymore.
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« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2007, 05:15:36 PM »

Is it possible that creationists are the missing links?
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« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2007, 05:34:25 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on June 17, 2007, 02:49:28 PM

What the holy fuck?

Quote
"Biology research suggests that the pair of rhinoceroses on the Ark diversified into perhaps 200-300 species in the first centuries after the Flood. God probably placed the potential for variety into the rhinos original creation."

I couldn't spit out shit that insane if I tried.

so the Rhinos practiced incest?  I'm just saying.......
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2007, 05:43:00 PM »

Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2007, 05:49:55 PM »

Quote
Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.

Meh, I don't even have a problem with fundamentalist Christians or people who believe in 7-day creationism, as about half the people I know, many of whom are extremely intelligent, fall into that category.  But I suppose it's easier to treat "the enemy" like half-wits if you don't know anyone with those beliefs, even if that says more about you than them.  I respect fundamentalist Christians more than I do the people who make fun of them.
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2007, 05:51:21 PM »

I had no idea that Dinosaurs went extinct in the Great Flood. That explains so much.  icon_eek
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2007, 05:53:41 PM »

I think the best litmus test is to ask people how old the earth is.  If the answer is "around 6000 years"... you can pretty much ignore anything further they have to say.
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2007, 06:20:27 PM »

It's easy to believe in stupid shit when it doesn't effect your day to day life.
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« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2007, 06:28:20 PM »

Those pictures are great.  icon_lol
What an absurd waste of money.  Over $25 million wasted that could have gone towards something useful.
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« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2007, 07:21:10 PM »

Quote from: Nth Power on June 17, 2007, 06:28:20 PM

Those pictures are great.  icon_lol
What an absurd waste of money.  Over $25 million wasted that could have gone towards something useful.

Like an education..well anywhere but Kansas
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« Reply #14 on: June 17, 2007, 07:40:17 PM »

Quote from: Gwar21 on June 17, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

Quote
Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.

Meh, I don't even have a problem with fundamentalist Christians or people who believe in 7-day creationism, as about half the people I know, many of whom are extremely intelligent, fall into that category.  But I suppose it's easier to treat "the enemy" like half-wits if you don't know anyone with those beliefs, even if that says more about you than them.  I respect fundamentalist Christians more than I do the people who make fun of them.

Actually I know a few Creationists, and one of them actually is very intelligent. Its still a lot of fun making fun of them, intelligent or not. You respect fundys more because you are one of them, or at least close enough.
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« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2007, 08:35:10 PM »

didnt really see much humor there (not sure if I was), at least the girl was cute in a girl next door kinda way.

If they used public funds for that then yeah what a waste of money.
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« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2007, 10:03:06 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on June 17, 2007, 05:43:00 PM

Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.

Unfortunately, this is a misunderstanding of the science.  There's quite a large body of evidence that demonstrates the validity of macroevolution.

If you're interested in understanding why that's the case, there's a few good web resources you can use to get an overview:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.html is a well-organized summary of the science, but may be a bit too technical for laypeople.

http://www.sciohost.org/ncse/kvd/Padian/Padian_transcript.html is the testimony by the president of the National Center for Science Education to the Pennsylvania district court who kept "intelligent design" out of science classes in Dover.  It's very long, but it incorporates his slide presentation, and is targeted at laypeople (in this particular case, of course, the judge).

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html is an index of common creationist assertions and reasoned responses (with citations).

Brendan
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« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2007, 10:36:56 PM »

Quote from: Nth Power on June 17, 2007, 06:28:20 PM

Those pictures are great.  icon_lol
What an absurd waste of money.  Over $25 million wasted that could have gone towards something useful.

like landmines, barbed wire and machine gun nests for the US/Mexican border!
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« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2007, 11:20:28 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on June 17, 2007, 10:36:56 PM

Quote from: Nth Power on June 17, 2007, 06:28:20 PM

Those pictures are great.  icon_lol
What an absurd waste of money.  Over $25 million wasted that could have gone towards something useful.

like landmines, barbed wire and machine gun nests for the US/Mexican border!

Never underestimate the value of fooling people into believing you are actually doing something.
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« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2007, 11:49:56 PM »

Quote from: drifter on June 17, 2007, 08:35:10 PM

didnt really see much humor there (not sure if I was), at least the girl was cute in a girl next door kinda way.

You're right, it's more scary then funny.
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« Reply #20 on: June 18, 2007, 01:38:48 AM »

Quote from: Lee on June 17, 2007, 11:49:56 PM

Quote from: drifter on June 17, 2007, 08:35:10 PM

didnt really see much humor there (not sure if I was), at least the girl was cute in a girl next door kinda way.

You're right, it's more scary then funny.

Yeah, that mix of pseudo-science and made up nonsense being passed off as accepted fact is scary. 
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« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2007, 02:09:45 AM »

Quote from: Gwar21 on June 17, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

Quote
Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.

Meh, I don't even have a problem with fundamentalist Christians or people who believe in 7-day creationism, as about half the people I know, many of whom are extremely intelligent, fall into that category.  But I suppose it's easier to treat "the enemy" like half-wits if you don't know anyone with those beliefs, even if that says more about you than them.  I respect fundamentalist Christians more than I do the people who make fun of them.

If they believe in this, they aren't "extremely intelligent".  They're book smart but dogmatic idiots. 
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« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2007, 02:18:22 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 18, 2007, 02:09:45 AM


If they believe in this, they aren't "extremely intelligent".  They're book smart but dogmatic idiots. 

Well, maybe only one book.  At the most, but probably not even that.
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« Reply #23 on: June 18, 2007, 03:02:09 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 18, 2007, 02:09:45 AM

Quote from: Gwar21 on June 17, 2007, 05:49:55 PM

Quote
Not all Creationists are narrow minded radicals.  As a creationist, I still believe in evolution.  There are two types of evolution, macroevolution and microevolution.  I personally believe in microevolution even though I believe in creation.  Just as not all christians are fundamentalist/extremeists.

Meh, I don't even have a problem with fundamentalist Christians or people who believe in 7-day creationism, as about half the people I know, many of whom are extremely intelligent, fall into that category.  But I suppose it's easier to treat "the enemy" like half-wits if you don't know anyone with those beliefs, even if that says more about you than them.  I respect fundamentalist Christians more than I do the people who make fun of them.

If they believe in this, they aren't "extremely intelligent".  They're book smart but dogmatic idiots. 

That's not really true. I have met many Christians that I have the utmost respect for. One of my friends I would have to say is one of the smartest guys I have ever met. The guy knows something about everything. But he is a fundy. When it comes to religion he is really out there, telling me about how people used to be 17' tall, how the Grand Canyon would have to flow up hill to be created, etc. But if I have a question about anything (besides religion) he's the first person I go to. Religious beliefs are something that are so ingrained into us at such an early age, it's more of a psychological thing than an intelligence thing.

It's kind of odd, the people I like the most, and respect the most, always are radical Christians. But they seem to know about the religion they are following other than the everyday Christians I meet. They aren't blind followers. I respect the people who research what they believe in and can laugh at it at the same time.
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« Reply #24 on: June 18, 2007, 03:10:40 AM »

Quote from: Lee on June 18, 2007, 03:02:09 AM

That's not really true. I have met many Christians that I have the utmost respect for. One of my friends I would have to say is one of the smartest guys I have ever met. The guy knows something about everything. But he is a fundy. When it comes to religion he is really out there, telling me about how people used to be 17' tall, how the Grand Canyon would have to flow up hill to be created, etc. But if I have a question about anything (besides religion) he's the first person I go to. Religious beliefs are something that are so ingrained into us at such an early age, it's more of a psychological thing than an intelligence thing.

It's kind of odd, the people I like the most, and respect the most, always are radical Christians. But they seem to know about the religion they are following other than the everyday Christians I meet. They aren't blind followers. I respect the people who research what they believe in and can laugh at it at the same time.

The very definition of the word "research" means he hasn't...
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2007, 03:15:04 AM »

Well he does know his bible (how many Christians read the stuff that isn't all peachy?) and he knows his religious history.
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« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2007, 04:39:14 PM »

THIS is the one that I love:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/n1c0star/537840995/in/set-72157600335006271/

Quote
"Fortunately, we have another source of factual data--the first book of the Bible, Genesis."

Now, I live in Northeastern Tennessee, and probably 70% of the people in my area are extremely religious Christians, so I have many head shaking sessions over what I have to see on church signs and hear people say. Of everything I hear, the one thing that gets my goat the most is the belief that scientific facts, proven to be true, heavily documented, and easily supported, are put down by these people, as being "heathenistic" and wrong, but anecdotal (at best) writings, that go back thousands of years, and are from someone that "talked to God" are easily believed. How can people be so easily fooled?
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« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2007, 04:52:27 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 18, 2007, 04:39:14 PM

How can people be so easily fooled?

Let me pull out my favorite quote here: "The average person is a complete idiot."
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« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2007, 05:33:27 PM »

Quote from: Lee on June 18, 2007, 03:15:04 AM

Well he does know his bible (how many Christians read the stuff that isn't all peachy?) and he knows his religious history.

I'd be surprised by that. Most fundamentalists I've met are deeply ignorant of religious history, with only a passing understanding of what early Christianity looked like, the progression of Christian doctrine prior to the Reformation, and often even the actual roots of their own denominations. Most of what they believe is such a radical disconnect from the historic beliefs of the Christian religion that delving into what Christians in, say, AD 500 thought about things can often be a real challenge to their basic belief structure.
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« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2007, 06:51:55 PM »

Quote from: jblank on June 18, 2007, 04:39:14 PM

How can people be so easily fooled?

You think it was easy?!
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« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2007, 08:08:06 PM »

On the topic of the museum: I love how all the descriptions are basically, "Look how God made all this cool stuff."

No actual useful analysis is even attempted.
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« Reply #31 on: June 18, 2007, 09:01:25 PM »

Quote from: Bob on June 18, 2007, 08:08:06 PM

On the topic of the museum: I love how all the descriptions are basically, "Look how God made all this cool stuff."

No actual useful analysis is even attempted.

The part I find most funny and most terrifying is how the descriptions are written with both the skill and vocabulary of a 6th grader.

"Fossils may have been left by dinosaurs three thousand years ago, as they went extinct in the great flood. Other people have different ideas about how fossiles may have been created, but none of it is grounded in fact, just the way you approach it".

To pardon the pun-jesus christ.
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« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2007, 01:28:27 AM »

Alright, now... let me get this straight:

Humans couldn't have evolved from primates, because not enough time could've passed by for us to evolve from that, but yet somehow the very same people who argue against that evolution are willing to say that "biology research suggests that the pair of rhinoceroses on the Ark diversified into perhaps 200-300 species in the first couple centuries after the Flood"? What the hell?!

Let's see... the generational time of rhinoceroses is in the 15-20 year range, so let's be generous and say 15 years. With two centuries to go, that provides for roughly 13 generations. So nearly every generation would have to result in a doubling of the number of species of rhinoceroses to account for this. And this in addition to the claim that supervolcanoes and "other catastrophes" must have occurred after the Flood and before the Ice Age (which would place the last Ice Age as starting in roughly 2,000BC and ending in only a few short centuries).

Well, I suppose the best way to support the view that science is wrong about the evolution of humanity from primates is to come up with even more and more ludicrous "scientific theories" that have virtually no supporting evidence whatsoever.

If this "museum" were an Islamic museum in Iran, the very same crowd who supports the Creation Museum would be citing it as evidence of how much of a religious theocracy Iran is, and thus how backwards and ignorant they are. Must be nice to be ignorant of one's own hypocrisy. retard
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« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2007, 02:10:19 AM »

What I find the most hilarious is how people attempting to disprove global warming are citing us coming out of some kind of Ice Age... despite that occurring most recently around 10,000 years ago.  Which is, of course, about 4000 years before they believe the Earth was created.

One thing I've always found amazing is how Fundies can be so violently opposed to the concept of global warming, if you are only working with trends from the past 6000 years.  If you look at the weather within that short of a window, what has occurred in the past 200 years such a radical and profound change it would should make every Fundie screaming that the sky is falling.

But then again, I'm caught in the trap of living in the reality-based community.  When the color of the sky in your world is whatever Rush Limbaugh and Karl Rove tell you it is, one lives by an entirely different set of rules, rules in which logic and rationality do not apply.
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« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2007, 04:10:56 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on June 19, 2007, 01:28:27 AM

Humans couldn't have evolved from primates, because not enough time could've passed by for us to evolve from that, but yet somehow the very same people who argue against that evolution are willing to say that "biology research suggests that the pair of rhinoceroses on the Ark diversified into perhaps 200-300 species in the first couple centuries after the Flood"? What the hell?!

This is an example of the dichotomy they're trying to draw between microevolution and macroevolution.  Microevolution can't be disputed by any reasonable scientist (or layperson) these days, so they focus on their idea that you couldn't develop enough "kinds", meaning distinct species, in such a "short" period of time.  Because macroevolution happens over such long time periods, they erroneously think this an irrefutable argument.  Behe's new book is a ham-handed effort at furthering this concept.

My favorite part of their exhibits are the ones that show the before and after view of the Garden of Eden, where we're told that snakes weren't venomous - until after Eve ate that apple - and that there were no weeds - until, of course, Eve ate the apple.
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« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2007, 04:33:49 AM »

Who knew that eating apples was the secret of biodiversity?
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« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2007, 04:54:22 AM »

Silly fundies. It was a pomegranate, not an apple!
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« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2007, 03:00:51 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on June 19, 2007, 04:10:56 AM

Quote from: Farscry on June 19, 2007, 01:28:27 AM

Humans couldn't have evolved from primates, because not enough time could've passed by for us to evolve from that, but yet somehow the very same people who argue against that evolution are willing to say that "biology research suggests that the pair of rhinoceroses on the Ark diversified into perhaps 200-300 species in the first couple centuries after the Flood"? What the hell?!

This is an example of the dichotomy they're trying to draw between microevolution and macroevolution.  Microevolution can't be disputed by any reasonable scientist (or layperson) these days, so they focus on their idea that you couldn't develop enough "kinds", meaning distinct species, in such a "short" period of time.  Because macroevolution happens over such long time periods, they erroneously think this an irrefutable argument.  Behe's new book is a ham-handed effort at furthering this concept.

I don't think I quite get what you're saying here; I keep getting mixed up on it. Mind explaining further? I'm curious. icon_smile
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« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2007, 03:51:36 PM »

Quote from: Lee on June 18, 2007, 03:15:04 AM

Well he does know his bible (how many Christians read the stuff that isn't all peachy?) and he knows his religious history.

With all due respect to your friend, Lee, that doesn't mean he researched it.  Research indicates at least some sembelance of objectivity...and it sounds like your friend has none.  Had he really done research, there's no way for him to reach the conclusions he has if he were smart.
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« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2007, 04:06:39 PM »

I'll try to remember to write up something coherent later today, but simply put, those terms just identify concepts on either side of a species "divide":  within a single species, you can track the frequency of occurrence of alleles, which are genetic sequences encoded in your chromosomes.  It's easy to demonstrate genetic drift or mutations within a species by examining individual's genotypes and looking for changes in allele frequency - if you do it with a fruitfly, you can watch thousands of generations because they're so short-lived.  This is what is commonly referred to as "microevolution" and can't be disputed by anyone with half a brain.

"Macroevolution" is usually described as the process by which species transition into other species.  Creationists like to claim that there's a distinction between change within a species and change betwen species (which is why they focus on those two terms), and the thing they're really trying to combat is the idea that humans and apes have a common ancestor.  Consequently, they claim "Well, sure, we can observe that Peppered Moths changed their predominant color over forty years during the industrial revolution, but you can't possibly show that one species can turn into another species!" - they hinge on this argument because the time periods over which "macroevolution" happens are so long.   Now, the distinction isn't actually a meaningful one:  macroevolution is just the effect of the various processes that make up microevolution applied over millions of years. 

Of course, the concept of a "species" is an artificial one as well:  the animals that exist in the world today (including humans) aren't endpoints, we're all just intermediate steps along the way to wherever natural selection takes us.  A brown bear today will not be a brown bear in millions of years due to genetic drift, isolation of populations, etc - all the components of natural selection conspire to change a brown bear's genetic code in response to natural pressures.  Coyotes and domestic dogs can interbreed today, but perhaps that won't be true in a million years.
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