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Author Topic: Thinking of buying an Apple computer  (Read 5263 times)
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VynlSol
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« on: October 20, 2004, 12:05:48 AM »

Oddly, I find myself considering the purchase of a Mac. Or maybe it's an iMac , I'm not really sure of the distinction yet. I don't need a new computer. Am I suffering from gadget envy? Is the media hype about OS X sucking me in finally?

If I make a Mac purchase I'm not going to replace my existing system because from what I know Everquest II won't run on OS X, and I got to have my EQII when it hits. Plus my job --and side jobs-- deal primarily with developing Win32 based software. So the new Apple computer...if I get one...will be a toy, at least initially.

I've been exposed to vague statements like, "Macs rock," "OS X is light years ahead of anything else," "Once you go Mac you'll never go back". Is that crap true? Anyone willing to point me in the right direction to some unbiased commentary/reviews/facts/pro-con lists about the Mac/Apple/Os X?  

Thanks!
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mb737
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« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2004, 12:13:36 AM »

We have a few of the desklamp shaped Macs at work.  Aside from looking cool we don't use them at all.  I suppose we could (we develop Java/Tomcat web stuff) but there's really no point since we use Windows (eclipse, really) to develop and Linux for deployment.

  I suppose if I knew more about the things I could learn to like them (I did find the command line and thought that was VERY nifty, I'm a command line pro unlike my co-workers)  Everything else was not as intuitive as they say, or maybe it's TOO easy and I'm missing the "Advanced" buttons a lot.

  So, as a "professional" computer user my opinion is meh.
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zinckiwi
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« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2004, 12:29:31 AM »

I run both platforms and recently ordered a new 20" iMac to become my main machine at home. I'd been usign a Powerbook (laptop) for that purpose but it's more convenient to have a dekstop.

I will say that in my experience, most people with serious exposure to both platforms prefer to use a Mac for day-to-day personal computing (music, word processing, web browsing, etc.) It's a more pleasurable experience, and the quality of community software (shareware, freeware etc.) is extremely high. MacOS seems to have inherited not just the technical backbone of *nix, but also its approach to software: there are a huge amount of tiny, elegant programs out there that focus on one thing and do it well.

For the average consumer it's mostly about the details. MacOS is more polished than Windows. An easy (but good) example is Expose -- you'll feel like you're in the stone age by going back to Alt-Tab.

If you're a heavy gamer, don't switch entirely. I use my PC for games and that's it. The Mac is actually a very good gaming platform, but the market is small and therefore so is the volume of game software available.
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Lee
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2004, 12:39:16 AM »

I am thinking about getting a Mac too. My problem is I don't want to put a major investment into it, but I don't think I could handle the 17" eMac monitor. I am debating. I basically want the Mac for music, web surfing, and picture editing. I want it to be my daily use computer and my PC to be my game computer. Problem is Mac's aren't cheap.
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Laner
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2004, 01:06:56 AM »

I had the same urges last year, and I ended up getting an iBook... which I think was a wise decision.  It was a relatively small cash outlay compared to the rest of the Apple line ($1099), it gave me a good feel for the OS X environment, and the cost was easily recoupable... Mac laptops tend to hold their value much better than the desktop models.  While there was still some warranty left on it, I sold it for $850 on ePay, and put it towards the price of a new Powerbook.

Another reason I'd recommend the iBook - Apple *today* refreshed their iBook line, and the 12" iBook is now only $999 with a 1.2Ghz processor, 256MB and built-in wireless support.  A great bargain anyway you slice it, and if you decide it's not for you, you're not out $2000 or more, or stuck with a 50lbs boat anchor (the eMac)

Quote
I've been exposed to vague statements like, "Macs rock," "OS X is light years ahead of anything else," "Once you go Mac you'll never go back". Is that crap true?

Personally, I don't think it is.  There's nothing wrong with OS X, but it's certainly not the computing nirvana that the Macolytes claim.  It does some things better than Windows, and it does some things worse than Windows.  Some people will point to the lack of viruses and spyware, but honestly they're not a problem on my Windows machines either.  And if there ever is a serious OS X virus, it's going to tear through Mac systems like tissue paper because no one is protected.

I use my Mac for video production mostly.  Which it does very well, at a relatively low cost.  But I don't ever see it replacing my Windows PC as my primary computer.
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ravenvii
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2004, 01:38:14 AM »

The iMac is a line of Macintosh (Mac) computers. All Apple's computers are Macs. That's the difference between the iMac and the Mac.

As the above poster said, Apple just released a new updated lineup of their iBooks, the base being $999 1.2 GHz iBook, which is an awesome deal. If you can't stand the 12" screen, you can always hook it up to your current monitor, and use it like a desktop. That's what I'm doing with my iBook G3 900 MHz.
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VynlSol
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2004, 01:46:03 AM »

Thanks, everyone, for the insight. I appreciate it!
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Rob_Merritt
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2004, 01:57:55 AM »

If it wasn't for games, I would probably be using a mac. A lot of people who used Macs in the past that have a negative impression probably used OS 7. The macs of today with osx are sweet. They are easy to use, even new applications are quick to pick up and us. Its more stable, less hacks, even the hardware is quality. Mac are three main problems:

1. Price
2. crappy standard video cards and few and very expensive upgrade available
3. Lack of games

If you are mostly a console game, I suggest you seriously consider a mac.
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Clanwolfer
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« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2004, 02:09:07 AM »

I, too, have been suffering from Mac envy recently; a bunch of people at work are shifting from Solaris to OSX, and getting some nice machines, both work and personal.  I like the way OSX looks, the way it feels when I've tinkered with it, and I especially like that there's a UNIX-style console available.  I'd love one to tinker with, and with the new cheaper ones, I may bite at some point in the near future.

Of course, part of it is seeing SubEthaEdit in action on the Mac and thinking that it's so unbelievably cool.  I wish there were a Windows alternative.
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marcain
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2004, 03:45:52 AM »

I game on my PC and do everything else on my Mac.  If I had to give either one of them up... it would be a tough tough call (and I've been gaming for a long time).
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Fireball
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2004, 05:15:18 AM »

Quote from: "Laner"
Personally, I don't think it is.  There's nothing wrong with OS X, but it's certainly not the computing nirvana that the Macolytes claim.  It does some things better than Windows, and it does some things worse than Windows.  Some people will point to the lack of viruses and spyware, but honestly they're not a problem on my Windows machines either.  And if there ever is a serious OS X virus, it's going to tear through Mac systems like tissue paper because no one is protected.


That's unlikely. By default, every Mac system is protected because it has inherently more security, due to the very tight Unix permissions model. Most Windows users run in the equivalent of Root mode, which is not an active option in Mac OS X. There is no way a virus on your Mac could actually damage the Mac OS without you giving it explicit permission to do so, and even then the damage it could do would be very limited.

Of course, a virus could destroy all your documents, but hell, a bad iTunes 2 installer used to do that. slywink
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Fireball
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« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2004, 05:38:07 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
I am thinking about getting a Mac too. My problem is I don't want to put a major investment into it, but I don't think I could handle the 17" eMac monitor. I am debating. I basically want the Mac for music, web surfing, and picture editing. I want it to be my daily use computer and my PC to be my game computer. Problem is Mac's aren't cheap.


Get the new iBook G4. It's $999 and has a 12" screen, but they're the best computers I've ever used. I love my iBook G3, and use it almost exclusively for writing, in lieu of my Power Mac G5 or my HP laptop. The low resolution (1024x768) wouldn't be a crimp in anything you plan to do, with the possible exception of image editing. Though I happily used Photoshop on an iMac at that same resolution for almost two years.

I'm a big proponent of OS X. It's gorgeous, extremely easy to use and rock solid, since it's built on top of Unix. Apple has achieved the sort of desktop usability in OS X that the Linux folks have been struggling to grasp for over a decade. The bundled software (Mail, Safari, iTunes, iCal, iMovie, Garage Band, iPhoto) covers the vast majority of what an average user would do with their machine... even some productivity stuff if you're happy with TextEdit, the Word-compatible rich text editor that ships with the OS.

There's also a great deal of commercial-quality shareware available for the Mac which is rarely seen on store shelves but which makes up a major portion of the Mac environment. Nisus Software's Nisus Writer Express is a great Word replacement that does the stuff that Word does that 90% of us use, but with less kruft and a better UI, and it saves by default in the Word-compatible .rtf format. Apple's Keynote is the same thing for PowerPoint.

I've been a Mac user for well over 10 years, and would be happy to offer help/advice/whatever you or the OP need regarding a Mac purchase.
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Valael
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« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2004, 06:20:35 AM »

So if someone got one of those iBooks, would they be able to use a Windows Emulator to run some less "intense" games?  Like the Combat Mission series.
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Fireball
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« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2004, 06:37:44 AM »

Not likely, no.

The problem isn't just the emulation slow down, it's the fact that Virtual PC does not hook into the Mac's native video hardware, so you're running  atop an emulated, baseline, non-3D enhanced, "shared memory" virtual video controller. Video performance in Virtual PC sucks. For using an Access database, or running an old DOS game (I run a presidential election emulator from the 1980s on Virtual PC at my office sometimes), it's okay. It's also quite useful for checking what a web page will look like on the majority platform. But in no way is it usable for Windows based games, or even advanced DOS based games.

Microsoft wanted to fix this in Virtual PC 7, which came out last month, but they had to change their schedule of features for that release when Apple rolled out its line of 64-bit computers. Virtual PC 6 couldn't run on a 64-bit machine, so that became the priority.

I'm hoping that Virtual PC 8 will include better native video support, but even then games on a low end Mac through emulation would be a pain in the butt since Apple doesn't precisely use high grade video cards in their low end machines (even their high end machines typically have middling cards).

Macs simply aren't gamer rigs. They're very good at what they do, but that's not really what they do.
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Charlatan
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« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2004, 11:02:47 AM »

Well, there ARE games for the Mac, just not the plethora of games that PC users have. I'd check out www.insidemacgames.com to see the state of things.

And as a big example, Blizzard is doing parallel PC + Mac development on WoW - I've played it on my wife's iMac with the 20" screen (sweet machine) and it's great - looks better than on my laptop too.
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« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2004, 11:54:45 AM »

I can't add much except to add that I would love to get an Apple Mac and start learning it.  I almost bought an Apple laptop before I got my Dell but this was before the price drops that have been common the past few months.  If you have the means I would get one and try it out...if nothing else find one and use it first to see if you even like it.
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dbt1949
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« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2004, 01:00:02 PM »

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« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2004, 01:36:25 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Laner"
Personally, I don't think it is.  There's nothing wrong with OS X, but it's certainly not the computing nirvana that the Macolytes claim.  It does some things better than Windows, and it does some things worse than Windows.  Some people will point to the lack of viruses and spyware, but honestly they're not a problem on my Windows machines either.  And if there ever is a serious OS X virus, it's going to tear through Mac systems like tissue paper because no one is protected.


That's unlikely. By default, every Mac system is protected because it has inherently more security, due to the very tight Unix permissions model. Most Windows users run in the equivalent of Root mode, which is not an active option in Mac OS X. There is no way a virus on your Mac could actually damage the Mac OS without you giving it explicit permission to do so, and even then the damage it could do would be very limited.

And that's precisely the attitude I'm talking about.  

So you're saying there are no holes anywhere that can be exploited?  The dozen or so security updates I've installed this year seem to say otherwise.  Not running as root doesn't guarantee anything.  Yes, it's *more* secure, but it's not foolproof.

Pride goeth before the fall, and all that.
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Jancelot
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« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2004, 01:58:12 PM »

I find the PC vs. Mac stuff pretty amusing.  Personally I could care less except that I develop Windows apps using Visual Studio .NET.  So my life has to have Windows machines in it.  My brother has Macs (artist) and I like messing around on them whenever I'm at his place.  Nice machines.  IF something came along that led me to develop for Macs I wouldn't hesistate at all.

It strikes me odd that people get upset about Microsoft's control over the software when Apple controls both the software and the hardware.  Considering my job I'm all for stability and would love to see more consolidation and standards in the PC market.  I guess the X-Box, while obviously a very specific use computer, is somewhat similar to the Mac biz philosophy.

I remember when I bought an iPod for my gf at an Apple store the clerk actually got pissy with me when I told him we were going to use it with Windows.  But there are plenty of elitists in any group.  I still cringe at those uber-nerds in the back of my computer classes who would get in to chest thumping constests over code.   :lol:

Oh yeah, go for it!  Macs are nice.
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StormcloudCreations
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« Reply #19 on: October 20, 2004, 02:08:12 PM »

I have used Macs before..very different feeling and user base than Windows. They are slick and nice though.

I seriously considered (and still am somewhat considering) porting a few of my more recent games to Mac. Due to the still limited gamebase, I could gain a little following perhaps.  Cool
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Fireball
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« Reply #20 on: October 20, 2004, 03:32:08 PM »

Quote from: "Laner"
And that's precisely the attitude I'm talking about.  

So you're saying there are no holes anywhere that can be exploited?  The dozen or so security updates I've installed this year seem to say otherwise.  Not running as root doesn't guarantee anything.  Yes, it's *more* secure, but it's not foolproof.

Pride goeth before the fall, and all that.


It's not pride, it's a security model that's been tested and retested for 20+ years. While it is possible for a virus to destroy all of a user's documents, sure, it is staggeringly unlikely that some hacker out there is going to find a hole in the tried-and-tested Unix security underpinnings of the Mac OS.

Again, the most destructive piece of malware to ever come out for Mac OS X has been the iTunes 2 installer.

On top of the permissions model, software that is being launched for the first time other than by direct user activation must prompt the user before it can run. Software that will make changes in any way to the system or library files must receive an administration password before it can run, even if the administrator is the active account. This stuff just isn't going to happen suddenly like it does on Windows, which is by default pretty insecure (SP2 is much better in my experience).

Also, with no ActiveX, there's no environment for web applets to install software. Mac OS X ships with all network ports closed and it requires an administrator password to open them.

I run Virex on my Mac, but I've never needed it. However, Macs can be virus carriers when it comes to things like Word macro viruses. Our lab at the newspaper used to be infested with a Word virus. It couldn't harm our Macs, but folks had to save files out as RTF to strip away the macros before taking documents to Windows machines.
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Jancelot
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« Reply #21 on: October 20, 2004, 03:52:41 PM »

But Virus writers like attention.  What better way to get attention than to write a virus for, by far, the most prolific OS out there.  If Macs and PCs were flipped in ratio I still say we'd be see a dramatic increase in attacks aimed at Macs, don't you think?.  Same sh*t different flies, IMHO.  Macs have built a very impressive and strong fort, but the seige against it is nigh negligible compared to the armies of pasty-skinned, living-in-Mom's-basement, pissed-at-life nerds arrayed against the Windows fort.*  Microsoft has definitely made some bumbling mistakes along the way (ignoring the internet, ahem), but all of their dirty laundry gets aired (and rightfully) in the public eye because of their dominance.  Apple has had the not-necessarily wanted luxury of being able to watch and learn without being exposed.  Of course a lot of this is educated speculation, and Macs are more secure.  But for many reasons, not just the OS.

I've been watching the History Channel if you can't tell. smile
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Fireball
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« Reply #22 on: October 20, 2004, 04:24:21 PM »

There is security in obscurity. However, if Windows shipped with the sort of default security the Mac does, if ports were closed, if programs required authorization, if most log ins didn't run as effective root accounts -- ie, the sort of stuff they're beginning to do in earnest with Windows XP -- then the deluge of malware faced by Windows users wouldn't have crested quite so high.

As advantages go, this is a receding one for Apple, as Microsoft is finally taking security seriously. But the major sticking point continues to be the need for Administrator access to run many software packages. Until Microsoft starts shunting people into less powerful user accounts by default, or gets very serious about blocking software launches not specifically requested by end users (through lots of authorization pop up windows, like in OS X), Windows users will continue to be at risk in a way Mac users are not.
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Jancelot
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« Reply #23 on: October 20, 2004, 04:51:22 PM »

Good points.  Although SP2 is a good step in the right direction, Microsoft still does have a ways to go.  The admin account is definitely an area they need to shore up.  At a recent SQL dev summit I attended they consistantly hammered on the point of disabling the default admin account on all machines and especially servers.  This years version of SQL Server now ships without the default account not given all permissions.  If I had an extra pile of money right now I'd definitely buy a Mac for my office and turn my Windows machine in to a server.
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Lee
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« Reply #24 on: October 20, 2004, 06:05:52 PM »

Fireball, I want a Mac for everyday use (net, email, music) and photo editing. The photo editing part is what scares me. A laptop's small screen size would be a problem for that.

I think a 17" 1.8ghz iMac would be good with 512 megs, but can I add another 512 easily when I have the money to do so? iMacs look like they are hard to upgrade. Can you even upgrade them once they are built? I can't add a hard drive but can I upgrade the hard drive at a later time?

Would that iMac run Adobe Photo Elements good? Maybe I should forget photo editing on it and leave that for the PC?

I wouldn't game much on it if at all, just small time wasters or the Spiderweb Software games, so the 64 meg video card wouldn't be a problem.
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« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2004, 06:20:48 PM »

I'm a mac-aholic. Been using Apple computers since the pre-mac days, in fact. I've also applied for a job with one of the retail stores opening next year. If anyone has contacts in Cupertino, let me know. Cool

Look at it this way:
I use my PC
I love my mac

This probably sounds really weird to most of you, but a PC is a tool. A mac has a tendency to almost become part of the family, in a way. Apple products, in many respects, are about digital lifestyle.

For me, it's a question of a better user experience and fewer frustrations. I do agree with the points about obscurity = security. I like the Mac OS. I think it is wonderfully elegant in a way Windows tries to emulate but often mucks up. But I think the case for being more secure is overstated. Still, I don't blame people for trying to use it as a selling tool, because for the time being, they ARE safer. What surprises me is the fact that their reputation for being more scure hasn't raised the challenge flag for more programmers.

The difference between the iMac line and the PowerMac line is that the iMacs are for general consumers whereas the G5s are targeted at professionals and priced accordingly.  Same goes for ibook vs Powerbook.
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« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2004, 06:27:05 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"
Fireball, I want a Mac for everyday use (net, email, music) and photo editing. The photo editing part is what scares me. A laptop's small screen size would be a problem for that.

I think a 17" 1.8ghz iMac would be good with 512 megs, but can I add another 512 easily when I have the money to do so? iMacs look like they are hard to upgrade. Can you even upgrade them once they are built? I can't add a hard drive but can I upgrade the hard drive at a later time?

Would that iMac run Adobe Photo Elements good? Maybe I should forget photo editing on it and leave that for the PC?

I wouldn't game much on it if at all, just small time wasters or the Spiderweb Software games, so the 64 meg video card wouldn't be a problem.


The iMac G5 is much more expandable than the previous iMac G4. You can upgrade the HD, optical drive and RAM. The only thing you can't upgrade is the graphics card (which is soldered to the motherboard). You can add up to 2 GB of RAM if you want.

As for the speed, are you kidding me? The G5 is a FAST processor. MUCH faster than a P4 clock-for-clock. I could run Photoshop CS great on my 900 MHz G3 iBook. That G5 will eat Photoshop Elements for lunch.
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« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2004, 07:00:57 PM »

Quote from: "Lee"
I think a 17" 1.8ghz iMac would be good with 512 megs, but can I add another 512 easily when I have the money to do so? iMacs look like they are hard to upgrade. Can you even upgrade them once they are built? I can't add a hard drive but can I upgrade the hard drive at a later time?

Would that iMac run Adobe Photo Elements good? Maybe I should forget photo editing on it and leave that for the PC?


That would run Photoshop Elements extremely well. PSE ran well on my old 800 MHz G4 iMac, I suspect it will fly on the newer model. As for upgrading, the previous poster was correct, this is the most expandable iMac ever, though some upgrades would likely void your warranty. Still, you just pop off the back (screws, I think) and you've got complete access to the logic board. It's almost as clean a design as my G5 tower.

If you already have a nice screen, you might want to look at the new $1,499 Power Mac G5. Similar speed to the new iMacs, but with upgradable video, more RAM slots, 3 PCI slots and a space for a second internal hard drive.

Kirk
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2004, 07:23:47 PM »

Maybe it's just all the people I've worked with over the years in creative and development endeavors, but I'd never voluntarily use PhotoShop or genuine photoediting software on anything BUT a Mac. For some weird reason, Macs are just the best things in the world when it comes to design. Go figure. As much as I enjoy jokingly knocking Macs, if I had the money I'd grab an iBook and do all my writing on that as well as anything business-related, then use my PC strickly for gaming.

Because for gaming, here's what the Mac's got:

Breakout.... Super Breakout.... photoshop
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« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2004, 07:30:33 PM »

You know, Mitch, the way I burn through these things, I woulda been happy to hook you up with one of my previous Macs at a very reasonable rate, installment plan and all.*






* - installment plan includes very onerous interest rates, but what's 27% monthly compounded interest between friends? smile
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Lee
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« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2004, 09:39:24 PM »

I think you guys have pretty much sold me on getting an iMac. My big concern was the upgradability.

I would love a Power PC, but I don't want to shell out more money for a widescreen. I LOVE the wide screen on my Dell laptop, so to me that is part of the selling point of the iMac, that it comes with a wide screen. The next question is do I splurge for a 20" iMac.

A Mac can read a windows formated harddrive right? And my 40 gig iPod can be reformatted for the Mac right?

Thanks for answering my questions guys. Now I just have to figure out where to buy one. I might just drive down to the Apple store in Denver if need be.
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« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2004, 09:57:30 PM »

Is it an external hard drive? Because, yeah, a Mac can read an external Windows formatted hard drive (at least, in my experience). Of course, the system disk has to be HFS+.

And yes, if you plug in your iPod, it will/should format and work for the Mac. However, you need to move all your music to the Mac first, or else it will wipe it all off the iPod (which is a one way only syncing device, recall).

As for where to purchase, check out MacMall.com or MacWarehouse.com. They typically have Apple's MSRP, minus a few bucks, but invariably throw in freebies like RAM or a printer or something.
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VynlSol
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« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2004, 10:09:28 PM »

I've been perusing the apple site, and it's painful. I read about Expose, read about the 64 bit G5, started drooling, smacked myself and logged off the net.

So, now I'm dehydrated with a sore cheek.

Seriously though, Apple's marketing team has done a tremendous job of presenting the benefits of their products online. I'm struggling to hold out until after the first of the year to make a purchase...

Thanks again for everyone's valuable insight!
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Lee
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« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2004, 10:22:13 PM »

Well I just did the fund transfer so I can get one. I might even get the 20" iMac. CompUSA in Aurora, CO has one for pick up (the 20" seem to be rare). Problem is I am working 12 hour shifts starting Friday for 7 days straight.

Thanks a lot for your help guys, I am pretty excited about this. I have wanted a Mac for a long time.
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« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2004, 11:10:38 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Is it an external hard drive? Because, yeah, a Mac can read an external Windows formatted hard drive (at least, in my experience). Of course, the system disk has to be HFS+.

Macs can't write to NTFS drives (unless something has changed).  So, if you want your external drive to be read/writable by both OSX and Windows, you either have to stick with FAT32 (yuck), or buy a copy of MacDrive (better)
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Lee
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« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2004, 11:54:57 PM »

Update for me: Drove through Denver rush hour traffic last night in order to get one of the rare 20" iMacs. Haven't had a lot of time to play with it, just a few hours now. At first I was totally lost, but the more I use it the more I like it. I am getting comfortable now and starting to see all the little nice things, like the easy file system, the task bar, the smoothness of how things work together. Getting all my pictures and music over to the Mac from my PC was extremely easy also.

256 megs is not enough though. I will soon be popping in another gig of memory. The built in speakers are good, but I will need something with a little more base. Oh and I hate the one button mouse, it's just silly.

What do you guys use for your browser? I can't get comfortable with Safari. I love Opera, but the Mac version can't tile pages and when you click a link it opens the link in a new Opera window instead of a new page. I hate that. The PC version of Opera seems much smoother than the Mac version.

I need to invest some more money into it, but so far I am very pleased and think I will be gravitating more to the Mac than my PC for non gaming.

Thanks for the extra little push I needed that I got from this thread. smile
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ravenvii
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« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2004, 01:19:02 AM »

I totally agree with you on the one-button mouse. I hate that thing. That's why I'm using my Intellimouse Optical. Works great, and you can use the extra buttons for expose. Or the usual uses it has on the PC if you get the IntelliPoint drivers/software. Just about any USB mouse will work in OS X natively. Logitech also has OS X-based mouse drivers if you have/like Logitech mice.

As for browser, Safari rocks! If you still don't like it for some reason, there's many browsers on OS X to try out... Firefox, Camino and Mozilla are the most popular. Just don't even think of using Internet Explorer, it's outdated by two years, out of development, and sucked even when it was IN development. Just stay away.
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jessie
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« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2004, 04:34:30 AM »

if you get a mac, and wanna game on it, you can always play WoW smile
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« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2004, 06:12:08 AM »

Quote from: "Lee"
256 megs is not enough though. I will soon be popping in another gig of memory. The built in speakers are good, but I will need something with a little more base. Oh and I hate the one button mouse, it's just silly.


I don't mind the one button mouse, but I use a multibutton Kensignton Studio Mouse instead. I'd recommend it highly.

As for a Web browser, I use OmniWeb 5.1[/quote], which is the Safari rendering engine in a more featureful browser application. It's not free, but I've found it to be very much worth the price.

I also use Safari a lot, and I think very highly of Firefox.

Don't use Internet Explorer.

Glad you're happy with your overall experience. smile
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« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2004, 08:29:06 PM »

Well, I just placed my order: http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html

Got it through my brother's employee discount (he's tech support) and a special promotion they are giving them.  Naturally, I got the high-end 15 incher biggrin

man, I have NEVER made that big of a purchase online.... :shock:
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