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Author Topic: They don't like DVRs.....  (Read 1975 times)
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Dreamshadow
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« on: November 14, 2006, 03:06:00 AM »


After seeing some of the commercials surrounding Heroes tonight, and what people have been saying about missing the last several minutes of a show...I've come to the conclusion that the networks don't like DVRs.  So far, I'm only pointing the finger at them, as the cable stations usually have unusual start times and end times marked on the pre-programmed schedules that now come standard.  But the broadcast networks seem to be doing everything they can to make sure you are watching real-time by shifting the episodes by a few minutes one way or the other for no discernable reason.

What, do they not like time shifting?  Are we hurting the ratings of their shows by doing it?
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2006, 03:08:58 AM »

You're not watching the commercials dude.  That's the big deal right there.
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Kevin Grey
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2006, 03:11:55 AM »

Quote from: Dreamshadow on November 14, 2006, 03:06:00 AM


After seeing some of the commercials surrounding Heroes tonight, and what people have been saying about missing the last several minutes of a show...I've come to the conclusion that the networks don't like DVRs.  So far, I'm only pointing the finger at them, as the cable stations usually have unusual start times and end times marked on the pre-programmed schedules that now come standard.  But the broadcast networks seem to be doing everything they can to make sure you are watching real-time by shifting the episodes by a few minutes one way or the other for no discernable reason.

What, do they not like time shifting?  Are we hurting the ratings of their shows by doing it?

I don't think it's time shifting so much- Tivo, at least, picks up on the changes and records the correct amount of time.  I think that was the rationale initially, but it didn't take long for most DVR services to get on the ball and update their program listings so it was a very short lived victory on the part of the networks.

I think they are trying to keep you on that channel instead.  By holding a show over for a couple of minutes they may force you into missing the start of a show on a competing channel and then hope that you'll stick around on the same channel instead.

Re: DVR's and ratings.  Nielsen does indeed factor in DVR's.  However, I believe they only count for people who watch the show in the same night it originally aired.  The rationale is because Nielsen ratings are used to determine ad rates and a lot of ad stuff is time sensitive, movie commercials in particular.  20th Century Fox wants you to see that Borat ad the week or night before it opens, *not* several weeks later after it has already been out and it's box office fate determined.  Same thing for stores advertising sales, etc.
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2006, 03:44:00 AM »

Quote from: Dreamshadow on November 14, 2006, 03:06:00 AM

After seeing some of the commercials surrounding Heroes tonight, and what people have been saying about missing the last several minutes of a show...I've come to the conclusion that the networks don't like DVRs. 

I was ready for the cunts this week.. I set Tivo to start 5 minutes early, and end 5 minutes late.  Lets see them beat that.

But yeah, they HATE DVR's, in fact didn't they try suing Replay out of existance, and threaten Tivo with a lawsuit over any potential commercial skipping software?  I do remember Magnavox actually released a TV set that LOWERED the volume on Commercials automatically (you know how they raise the volume on them right?) and they got sued.

Dumbfucks.
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM »

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2006, 03:58:14 AM »

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

I am checking soon, but my friend says they ran it 3 minutes late.  In TV time, thats a virtual plotline that was missed.  Lame eh?
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Graham
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2006, 05:05:23 AM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on November 14, 2006, 03:11:55 AM

Quote from: Dreamshadow on November 14, 2006, 03:06:00 AM


After seeing some of the commercials surrounding Heroes tonight, and what people have been saying about missing the last several minutes of a show...I've come to the conclusion that the networks don't like DVRs.  So far, I'm only pointing the finger at them, as the cable stations usually have unusual start times and end times marked on the pre-programmed schedules that now come standard.  But the broadcast networks seem to be doing everything they can to make sure you are watching real-time by shifting the episodes by a few minutes one way or the other for no discernable reason.

What, do they not like time shifting?  Are we hurting the ratings of their shows by doing it?

I don't think it's time shifting so much- Tivo, at least, picks up on the changes and records the correct amount of time.  I think that was the rationale initially, but it didn't take long for most DVR services to get on the ball and update their program listings so it was a very short lived victory on the part of the networks.

I think they are trying to keep you on that channel instead.  By holding a show over for a couple of minutes they may force you into missing the start of a show on a competing channel and then hope that you'll stick around on the same channel instead.

Re: DVR's and ratings.  Nielsen does indeed factor in DVR's.  However, I believe they only count for people who watch the show in the same night it originally aired.  The rationale is because Nielsen ratings are used to determine ad rates and a lot of ad stuff is time sensitive, movie commercials in particular.  20th Century Fox wants you to see that Borat ad the week or night before it opens, *not* several weeks later after it has already been out and it's box office fate determined.  Same thing for stores advertising sales, etc.

Actually, Nielsen just started accounting for DVR's in the last month or so.  For a while they weren't counting them in their ratings system.  This is why some shows like The Office were almost cancelled.
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2006, 05:09:32 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on November 14, 2006, 03:58:14 AM

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

I am checking soon, but my friend says they ran it 3 minutes late.  In TV time, thats a virtual plotline that was missed.  Lame eh?

When I got back to my computer, it was  9:03 or 9:05...and I walked back here to post this thread as soon as the show ended.
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2006, 05:11:20 AM »

fuck it, I'm just setting mt DVR to record Heroes on Friday at 7pm on the Sci-Fi channel.  I record Dr Who anyways, so if it runs over it still get the end.  Take that Beth Cumstuck, you ignorant slut!  icon_twisted

Quote from: Kobra on November 14, 2006, 03:44:00 AM

But yeah, they HATE DVR's, in fact didn't they try suing Replay out of existance, and threaten Tivo with a lawsuit over any potential commercial skipping software?  I do remember Magnavox actually released a TV set that LOWERED the volume on Commercials automatically (you know how they raise the volume on them right?) and they got sued.

Then they'd have to sue anyone who makes VCR's and DVD recorders also, and I'm pretty sure they don't want to piss off big names like Sony et all.
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2006, 03:45:41 PM »

My dad and I set it to start a couple mintues early and end 10 minutes after. We'd just record the sci fi channel but it isn't in HD on sci fi.
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2006, 05:13:02 PM »

Quote from: Dreamshadow on November 14, 2006, 03:06:00 AM


After seeing some of the commercials surrounding Heroes tonight, and what people have been saying about missing the last several minutes of a show...I've come to the conclusion that the networks don't like DVRs.  So far, I'm only pointing the finger at them, as the cable stations usually have unusual start times and end times marked on the pre-programmed schedules that now come standard.  But the broadcast networks seem to be doing everything they can to make sure you are watching real-time by shifting the episodes by a few minutes one way or the other for no discernable reason.

What, do they not like time shifting?  Are we hurting the ratings of their shows by doing it?

Yeah, they definitely don't like it, but then again, I don't like commercials, so if I have to DVR an extra hour, just to watch the final two minutes of Grey's Anatomy, then so be it.
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2006, 05:16:15 PM »

Quote from: jblank on November 14, 2006, 05:13:02 PM

Yeah, they definitely don't like it, but then again, I don't like commercials, so if I have to DVR an extra hour, just to watch the final two minutes of Grey's Anatomy, then so be it.

good idea.  It didn't even occur to me to record the following show on NBC like it did with the Sci Fi channel  icon_redface
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2006, 05:22:50 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 14, 2006, 05:16:15 PM

Quote from: jblank on November 14, 2006, 05:13:02 PM

Yeah, they definitely don't like it, but then again, I don't like commercials, so if I have to DVR an extra hour, just to watch the final two minutes of Grey's Anatomy, then so be it.

good idea.  It didn't even occur to me to record the following show on NBC like it did with the Sci Fi channel  icon_redface

Thats what we do, because with the exception of Battlestar Galactica, and this weekends HD broadcasts of the Star Wars films, everything is deleted after we watch it. The wife and I hate commercials, hate them, its why we have Satellite radio and why we use our DVR so much.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2006, 05:35:40 PM »

Set Tivo to record 3 minutes longer, that seems to be the sweetspot I am finding now. 5 minutes was too long, 3 was perfect when I timed it last night.
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2006, 05:50:00 PM »

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

If you have the Time Warner DVR like we do, you probably got the end of the show. I've noticed that when Lost or another program runs a couple of minutes long, the cable guide usually shows those extra minutes (and thus the DVR tapes the whole show).
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2006, 07:32:43 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 14, 2006, 05:16:15 PM

Quote from: jblank on November 14, 2006, 05:13:02 PM

Yeah, they definitely don't like it, but then again, I don't like commercials, so if I have to DVR an extra hour, just to watch the final two minutes of Grey's Anatomy, then so be it.

good idea.  It didn't even occur to me to record the following show on NBC like it did with the Sci Fi channel  icon_redface

Curious...does the DVR you guys use have the ability to record a extra minutes of the show?  And if it doesn't, which ones do you guys have?

- shaggy
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2006, 08:01:56 PM »

Quote from: Graham on November 14, 2006, 05:05:23 AM

Actually, Nielsen just started accounting for DVR's in the last month or so.  For a while they weren't counting them in their ratings system.  This is why some shows like The Office were almost cancelled.

They started tracking DVR viewing in July. Overnight ratings published at various web sites reflect ratings for live viewing and same day DVR viewing. Nielsen also publishes a "seven day" rating which incorporates viewers who watch the show within the next week.

The big issue with DVR viewing is that networks want to use the DVR + 7 days rating to calculate ad rates and advertisers are balking. Basically, advertisers feel that DVR viewers skip the commercials  and certain advertisers have time sensitive ads (like movie releases) where it doesn't benefit them if the consumer doesn't see the commercial until after the event is over.

Here's a really good article on the subject: http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman/publish/article_8444.asp

Quote
New Nielsen data reveals that when delayed viewing is fully taken into account, ratings actually soar for some shows in households with DVRs. Shows that are only modest performers on the nights they air become big hits when that live viewing is supplemented by DVR viewing over the following week.

Eventually Nielsen will start publishing ratings for commercial views within a show, rather than the shows themselves.
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2006, 08:44:38 PM »

Me too on the add minutes before and after--- the only time it can become a real issue is if you record a lot of shows that play on the same date/time etc...if they overlap with the extra time you can get conflicts-- but in generaly shows start on time now but go over 2 minutes-- hence 2-5 extra on either side saves you MUCHO grief.
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« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2006, 09:07:06 PM »

Quote from: Andrew Mallon on November 14, 2006, 08:01:56 PM

Actually, Nielsen just started accounting for DVR's in the last month or so.  For a while they weren't counting them in their ratings system.

whoa, i had no idea -- i thought this was tracked the whole time.

great thread yall, im learning a lot.
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2006, 12:02:10 AM »

did Studio 60 also go over?  I have both recorded for future viewing, so I know that we'll get Heroes, but I'm wondering if Studio 60 will get the short shrift spillover...
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2006, 06:19:23 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 14, 2006, 05:11:20 AM

fuck it, I'm just setting mt DVR to record Heroes on Friday at 7pm on the Sci-Fi channel.  I record Dr Who anyways, so if it runs over it still get the end.  Take that Beth Cumstuck, you ignorant slut!  icon_twisted

Quote from: Kobra on November 14, 2006, 03:44:00 AM

But yeah, they HATE DVR's, in fact didn't they try suing Replay out of existance, and threaten Tivo with a lawsuit over any potential commercial skipping software?  I do remember Magnavox actually released a TV set that LOWERED the volume on Commercials automatically (you know how they raise the volume on them right?) and they got sued.

Then they'd have to sue anyone who makes VCR's and DVD recorders also, and I'm pretty sure they don't want to piss off big names like Sony et all.

They did sue Replay....I have an older modded 5060 unit that still has a number of functions that Replay was sued for.  I'm reluctant to give up my Replay because it does to automatic commercial skipping - and it works about 95% of the time.  I went over to a friend's house with Tivo - and it was somewhat annoying having to press a button to skip the commercial - whereas at home I can just sit back and it jumps through the commercials automatically...
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2006, 01:41:20 PM »

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on November 14, 2006, 05:50:00 PM

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

If you have the Time Warner DVR like we do, you probably got the end of the show. I've noticed that when Lost or another program runs a couple of minutes long, the cable guide usually shows those extra minutes (and thus the DVR tapes the whole show).
I do, and it didn't.   finger  Oh well next week I'll adjust it to record 5 minutes before/after.  My DVR box doesn't seem to want to hold those settings though so it becomes a something where you have to do it for each week.
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2006, 03:34:24 PM »

Quote from: Austin on November 15, 2006, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on November 14, 2006, 05:50:00 PM

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

If you have the Time Warner DVR like we do, you probably got the end of the show. I've noticed that when Lost or another program runs a couple of minutes long, the cable guide usually shows those extra minutes (and thus the DVR tapes the whole show).
I do, and it didn't.   finger  Oh well next week I'll adjust it to record 5 minutes before/after.  My DVR box doesn't seem to want to hold those settings though so it becomes a something where you have to do it for each week.

mine's doing the same thing, so I think I'm going to follow jblanks suggestion and set it to record the timeslot immediately after Heroes.
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2006, 03:44:18 PM »

I'd noticed this with The Amazing Race; though that is moreso because of football.  I just extended my Tivo season pass to record an extra hour every week and don't think anything of it now.  Tend to do the same thing with football games I won't be home for so that I don't have a second instance of it cutting off during overtime.
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2006, 03:47:08 PM »

That's what I love about Media Center: let them just try suing Microsoft! 



MS laughs at your puny lawsuits!
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2006, 06:58:28 PM »

Quote from: warning on November 14, 2006, 03:08:58 AM

You're not watching the commercials dude.  That's the big deal right there.
They know we don't watch the commercials that's why they moved the commercials into the show.

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« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2006, 03:46:13 AM »

Time-shifting isn't going away.  Product placement is the future of advertising.

After 30+ years of being constantly bombarded with advertisements, my brain tends to filter out almost all advertising.  I do like funny commercials, however, but rarely remember what company they were for.  Also, I can't even think of a single purchase made or influenced by advertising, unless you could a store's sales flier as advertising.
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2006, 12:52:21 AM »

DEATH TO THE DVR HATERS
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« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2006, 01:13:57 PM »

I'm not positive but I think there might have been some very subtle product placement on The Office last night.  I doubt many people noticed it though...

(For those who didn't see it, one of the characters was all excited because he was using a new Staples paper shredder -- actually used it to make a salad)
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« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2006, 03:11:58 PM »

And there was some not-so-subtle product placement on 30 Rock last night.  icon_biggrin

I've noticed a bit more product placement in non-reality shows lately. Aside from last night's 30 Rock the one that stands out is Heroes' use of the Nissan Versa.
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« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2006, 08:29:02 PM »

Quote from: HankRaptor on November 17, 2006, 12:52:21 AM

DEATH TO THE DVR HATERS

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« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2006, 08:36:41 PM »

Speaking of this, anyone notice the Tivo update today?

Something about "Improving ability to detect shows that run late".. LOL

Also WPA and WEP are fully supported now, and a few other tweaks.  I love how Tivo keeps up so well on updates!
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« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2006, 07:50:10 PM »

Quote from: Austin on November 15, 2006, 01:41:20 PM

Quote from: Ralph-Wiggum on November 14, 2006, 05:50:00 PM

Quote from: Austin on November 14, 2006, 03:49:21 AM

Ahhh crap.  I haven't watched yet but did I miss the end of Heroes again?  :icon_confused:

If you have the Time Warner DVR like we do, you probably got the end of the show. I've noticed that when Lost or another program runs a couple of minutes long, the cable guide usually shows those extra minutes (and thus the DVR tapes the whole show).
I do, and it didn't.   finger  Oh well next week I'll adjust it to record 5 minutes before/after.  My DVR box doesn't seem to want to hold those settings though so it becomes a something where you have to do it for each week.

Yeah I've got the Time Warner box too.   There's an option to change the record time to record later, but when I save the settings it just changes it back to end on time.  Why is the option even there if it doesn't work.  I'm pretty close to getting rid of this DVR as it's a total piece of crap and not worth the $5 or whatever they charge.  On top of that, it only recorded the first 28 minutes of the show last week and quit.  No error or reason given.

And screw NBC for messing with the show times.
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