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Author Topic: The Walking Dead tap dances onto AMC for Season 4  (Read 40535 times)
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rshetts2
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« Reply #960 on: March 21, 2013, 03:12:50 AM »

Quote
I assume the Gov had the keys on him.  As for disabling the truck, she may have thought that would take more time than it was worth, especially if it was locked.

She had a frikkin knife, it would have taken her all of 5 seconds to slash the tires on that truck. 

Honestly I felt that this episode feature some of the laziest writing Ive ever seen on TWD.  It had some good moments but it was so poorly thought out that it was almost unbearable. 
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« Reply #961 on: March 25, 2013, 04:03:20 AM »

you need to spoil the start of your sentence with Merle.
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« Reply #962 on: March 25, 2013, 06:19:49 AM »

Wow.   They took a character disliked from day one and made me care about what happened.   I am sad to see the character go.
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« Reply #963 on: March 25, 2013, 06:43:21 AM »

That. Was. Awesome.

For all the faults and frustrations of this show, it's moments like the end of this episode that make it worth watching.
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« Reply #964 on: March 25, 2013, 12:10:34 PM »

Even within the same episode.

I was disappointed that Rick seemed to be a completely different character than the one we last saw talking to Hershel a couple of weeks ago.  And then he went back to his original stance.  Weak.

It would have been just as easy to see Merle take on this quest on his own and have it come out the same way.  Would have been stronger, too.

But the ending made all of that irrelevant (mostly).  Good stuff.
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« Reply #965 on: March 25, 2013, 12:46:50 PM »

Much better episode this week, even with Rick waffling.  Merle ( Michael Rooker ) was great.   Heres where I think the finale is headed:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Now that Rick has declared our group as a democracy, I think they vote to run but before they do they set up the prison as a zombie flooded trap for the Gov and his troops.  They leave a couple of well placed sharpshooters to draw the Gov in and then swarm them with zombies.   This takes care of their Governor problems but makes the prison uninhabitable, so they move on.
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« Reply #966 on: March 25, 2013, 12:59:58 PM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought
Spoiler for Hiden:
Glenn
would
Spoiler for Hiden:
take bended knee
when he
Spoiler for Hiden:
proposed
to
Spoiler for Hiden:
Maggie
seeing as how he
Spoiler for Hiden:
asked Hershel
for
Spoiler for Hiden:
his blessing
first.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 01:03:49 PM by spigot » Logged

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« Reply #967 on: March 25, 2013, 01:29:13 PM »

Quote from: spigot on March 25, 2013, 12:59:58 PM

Spoiler for Hiden:
I thought
Spoiler for Hiden:
Glenn
would
Spoiler for Hiden:
take bended knee
when he
Spoiler for Hiden:
proposed
to
Spoiler for Hiden:
Maggie
seeing as how he
Spoiler for Hiden:
asked Hershel
for
Spoiler for Hiden:
his blessing
first.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Not to mention a run into the town for an otherwise worthless engagement ring.

Maggie's not going to be too pleased to hear it came from a hacked off finger.
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« Reply #968 on: March 25, 2013, 03:15:35 PM »

I think Rick's waffling was perfectly in line with the writer's portrayal of him over the course of the show.  He makes decisions...hard decisions...then often doubts himself.  I think at this point, the weight of those decisions has become too much for him to bear and he realizes he needs to share this process with everyone because it's driving him mad (visions of Lori come to mind).

Spoiler for Hiden:
I really liked the scene between Daryl and Zombie Merle.  The anger and love portrayed at the same time during that scene by Daryl was excellently portrayed and written.  You could see the entire range of complexity inherent in their relationship played out during that scene.  Also, I found myself sad to see Merle go as a character.  He was on the road to redemption in my opinion.  While his sacrifice may have been considered an end to that road, he made that sacrifice for Daryl...eventually I think he would have come to a point in which he would've made it for everyone in the gang.
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« Reply #969 on: March 25, 2013, 04:33:23 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 25, 2013, 03:15:35 PM

I think Rick's waffling was perfectly in line with the writer's portrayal of him over the course of the show.  He makes decisions...hard decisions...then often doubts himself.  I think at this point, the weight of those decisions has become too much for him to bear and he realizes he needs to share this process with everyone because it's driving him mad (visions of Lori come to mind).

Spoiler for Hiden:
I really liked the scene between Daryl and Zombie Merle.  The anger and love portrayed at the same time during that scene by Daryl was excellently portrayed and written.  You could see the entire range of complexity inherent in their relationship played out during that scene.  Also, I found myself sad to see Merle go as a character.  He was on the road to redemption in my opinion.  While his sacrifice may have been considered an end to that road, he made that sacrifice for Daryl...eventually I think he would have come to a point in which he would've made it for everyone in the gang.


I think we missed a couple of steps with Rick getting to that point, though.  It felt written more than natural.

And speaking of writing, I'm not sure that last scene qualifies, exactly.  The extent of it in the script would be
Spoiler for Hiden:
EXT. DAY - THE MEETING PLACE

Daryl finds a lot of dead bodies.  There's a zombie eating a corpse.  It's Merle.  Daryl reacts.
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« Reply #970 on: March 25, 2013, 04:56:00 PM »

Once again, this was a Scott Gimple-written (incoming showrunner) episode  icon_smile, directed by make-up expert/co executive producer Nicotero. A dream team if you will.  icon_smile  I'm feeling better and better about next season, even if being showrunner is a lot different than being a staff writer on the show.

Really dug it, Gimp seems to really love having lots of scenes of key characters in close-up. Along with bitten-off fingers.  icon_eek

Michael Rooker was a hoot, and at times borderline scary (he lets you know when he disagrees with you  icon_razz), on Talking Dead last night (along with Morrissey/Governor). Daryl will be on next week, and presumably one more surprise guest.

The Zap2It blog rounded up some coverage on Gimple earlier this month:
http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2013/03/walking-dead-season-4-new-showrunner-scott-gimple-praised-as-a-tremendous-voice-and-great-artist-by.html
While his photo doesn't look like someone into Walker stories, and who apparently argues tooth and nail about losing precious character moments in his scripts, he's got a good rep, most importantly with the cast:
Quote
Danai Gurira, who joined the cast this season as Michonne and had her strongest showcase episode yet in "Clear," also vouches for Gimple. "A lot of the episodes I'm heavily involved in, he wrote," Gurira told us earlier this year. "He'd be on set and we worked very intimately together. I deeply respect him as a writer and a creative voice. I trust him a great deal, he's a great artist."
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« Reply #971 on: March 25, 2013, 09:10:11 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 25, 2013, 04:33:23 PM


And speaking of writing, I'm not sure that last scene qualifies, exactly.  The extent of it in the script would be
Spoiler for Hiden:
EXT. DAY - THE MEETING PLACE

Daryl finds a lot of dead bodies.  There's a zombie eating a corpse.  It's Merle.  Daryl reacts.


You do know what subtext means, right?   icon_wink

I can write the conclusion of Citizen Kane thusly:

Camera shows shot of sled.  Rosebud written on the side.  Movie ends.

But that would be as grossly understated as your synopsis of Daryl's reaction.
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« Reply #972 on: March 25, 2013, 10:45:47 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 25, 2013, 09:10:11 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 25, 2013, 04:33:23 PM


And speaking of writing, I'm not sure that last scene qualifies, exactly.  The extent of it in the script would be
Spoiler for Hiden:
EXT. DAY - THE MEETING PLACE

Daryl finds a lot of dead bodies.  There's a zombie eating a corpse.  It's Merle.  Daryl reacts.


You do know what subtext means, right?   icon_wink

I can write the conclusion of Citizen Kane thusly:

Camera shows shot of sled.  Rosebud written on the side.  Movie ends.

But that would be as grossly understated as your synopsis of Daryl's reaction.

Not really.  Everything in Citizen Kane leads up to and revolves around the mystery of Rosebud.  The entire script plays out as a response to that.

I'm not saying the ending of this week's episode wasn't great.  In fact, I've already said it was.  My point is that it was much more of an acting and directing moment than spectacular writing.
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« Reply #973 on: March 25, 2013, 10:59:31 PM »

Then you haven't been paying attention to Merle and Daryl's backstory when it was presented in previous episodes.  There was a reason for the combination of rage and sorrow in his actions with Merle last night.  There was a complexity to their relationship that played out in that final scene perfectly.   My claim that it was well written is also based on the stories leading up to that scene, not just that moment.  

And Rosebud is a framing device, not the actual plot of Citizen Kane.   icon_wink
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« Reply #974 on: March 25, 2013, 11:10:07 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 25, 2013, 10:59:31 PM

Then you haven't been paying attention to Merle and Daryl's backstory when it was presented in previous episodes.  There was a reason for the combination of rage and sorrow in his actions with Merle last night.  There was a complexity to their relationship that played out in that final scene perfectly.  

Was that relationship the sole character arc for both characters?  No.  But contrary to what you think, Citizen Kane wasn't soley about Charles Foster Kane's childhood either.   icon_wink

Everything you mention, the rage and sorrow, that was acting.  The way we watched it played out, including a fantastic close up of Merle's eyes, that was directing.  There was some writing in previous episodes that directly influenced the choices made by the actor and director there, but for this episode, the writers just put them in that space and let them go.

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« Reply #975 on: March 25, 2013, 11:12:21 PM »

I explained myself.  You explained yourself.  I disagree with your belief that the writers didn't contribute to that final scene.  

Don't let it keep you up at night.  
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« Reply #976 on: March 25, 2013, 11:31:18 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 25, 2013, 11:12:21 PM

I explained myself.  You explained yourself.  I disagree with your belief that the writers didn't contribute to that final scene.  

Don't let it keep you up at night.  


You're missing the point.  You said, "The anger and love portrayed at the same time during that scene by Daryl was excellently portrayed and written."  That scene wasn't written so much as acted and directed.  It's not a question of belief or not.  This moment was created in the writers' room as they mapped out the season, not by a particular writer of this episode.

Good night.
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« Reply #977 on: March 26, 2013, 12:18:48 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on March 25, 2013, 11:31:18 PM

Quote from: hepcat on March 25, 2013, 11:12:21 PM

I explained myself.  You explained yourself.  I disagree with your belief that the writers didn't contribute to that final scene.  

Don't let it keep you up at night.  


You're missing the point.  You said, "The anger and love portrayed at the same time during that scene by Daryl was excellently portrayed and written."  That scene wasn't written so much as acted and directed.  It's not a question of belief or not.  This moment was created in the writers' room as they mapped out the season, not by a particular writer of this episode.

Good night.

Check The Following thread, apparently you weren't aware that hepcat gets to define for everyone what is "well written" and what isn't.   icon_wink

Just to play devil's advocate, and as much as I am a raving fan of this show, there were numerous elements I could easily pick apart as poor writing in the last few weeks' episodes.  Plotting alone has been terribly contrived to stretch the season out longer and force the confrontation to the season finale.  Characters' flipping back and forth with sudden revelations/insights, inconsistencies in timing and travel, all the Governor's new super powers (with one eye!), cheap tricks like the end of last weeks' Andrea episode...  I could easily argue this show has shown plenty of poorly written elements.  

Luckily they make up for it with some really excellent character moments and classic lines of dialog, fantastic action and zombie gore, plus some really great acting and directing and production values.  Would I argue to someone the show is not "well written" overall?  Hell no!  But then I would say the same for The Following...  
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« Reply #978 on: March 26, 2013, 12:34:59 AM »

You're right, of course.  The internet is no place for disagreements.
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« Reply #979 on: March 26, 2013, 03:06:27 AM »

Quote from: hepcat on March 26, 2013, 12:34:59 AM

You're right, of course.  The internet is no place for disagreements.

Im not sure I agree with you on this.
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« Reply #980 on: March 26, 2013, 04:00:26 AM »

Quote from: rshetts2 on March 26, 2013, 03:06:27 AM

Quote from: hepcat on March 26, 2013, 12:34:59 AM

You're right, of course.  The internet is no place for disagreements.

Im not sure I agree with you on this.
I'm sorry, but you're just wrong about this...
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« Reply #981 on: March 26, 2013, 04:11:37 AM »

Does Daryl..

Spoiler for Hiden:
Even know it was the Governor that killed his brother? Will he find out?
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« Reply #982 on: March 26, 2013, 12:48:48 PM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on March 26, 2013, 04:11:37 AM

Does Daryl..

Spoiler for Hiden:
Even know it was the Governor that killed his brother? Will he find out?

It was at the meeting place, and Michone has a pretty good idea where he was going.

Just wanted to say that I got caught up arguing semantics yesterday.  With fresh eyes this morning, I realize that while Hep's literal comment was about the writing of the last scene, his later comments were about the writing overall, while I was still trying to point out that the specific scene wasn't about the writing.

Probably not worth the fight.  Glad the internet didn't implode.
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« Reply #983 on: March 26, 2013, 02:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on March 11, 2013, 07:52:51 PM

At first I thought Rick was going to be outmaneuvered and outplayed by the Gov.  Rick's speech post-meeting back at the prison was awesome, and made me think that Rick saw 100% through the Gov's deception.  But then his one on one with Hershel was dissapointing, because he admits to being in full contemplation of the Michonne swap proposal.
I was hoping that I was reading the conversation with Hershel from a few episodes ago wrong, that Rick wasn't considering a Michonne swap.  But I'm starting to learn to trust my gut instinct with this show...at least this season.  The writers wanted us to walk away from that scene believing that Rick was really in turmoil about the Michonne deal.  This Sunday's episode showed the actual mental struggle.  Unfortunately Merle interpreted the discussion with Rick as an implied request to do the dirty work that Rick wouldn't be able to do himself.

As much as I didn't like him as a character, Merle was interesting, and could have added value to thier group.  I loved the question from Rick, "You don't even kow why you do the things you do, do you?"  And Merl admitting to Rick that he didn't, that he was a mystery to himself.  I think Michonne was dialed in from the audience's perspective on Merl.  She even said something similar about starting over, adding value.  

I'm looking forward to the big payoff this Sunday.

          
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« Reply #984 on: March 26, 2013, 02:59:37 PM »

The ending of that last episode actually was pretty powerful.  Even my wife commented on it.  Hoping the finale gives some good closure for this season.
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« Reply #985 on: March 26, 2013, 03:12:07 PM »

Whether viewed as its own entity devoid of external contributions, or attributed to a group effort over the course of the last season or two, it was still a very powerful scene that gave us a much more satisfying conclusion to the relationship between Daryl and Merle than the rooftop conclusion from season 1.

As for the disagreements yesterday, folks butt heads on the internet all the time.  No biggie.
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« Reply #986 on: March 26, 2013, 07:08:34 PM »

Quote from: Roguetad on March 26, 2013, 02:50:57 PM

As much as I didn't like him as a character, Merle was interesting, and could have added value to thier group.  I loved the question from Rick, "You don't even kow why you do the things you do, do you?"  And Merl admitting to Rick that he didn't, that he was a mystery to himself. 

I absolutely loved that line/scene, which of course frustrated me more when they went the route they did.  I really think they blew a great opportunity to use the character for at least one more season, particulary in a "triangle" with Daryl and Carol.  I would say his plan was out of character, but I suppose the aforementioned scene establishes he just does what he does, which I guess is also kind of cool.
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« Reply #987 on: March 27, 2013, 06:28:51 PM »

imho, Merle was sort of underdeveloped this season and the forced gladiator-ish showdown between him and Daryl didn't quite live up to expectations. Sure, it was cool to have him back in the mix. I don't know how often someone disappears in a series pilot and then returns more than 2 seasons later. I just feel like he remained a cipher, and just sort of a irascible, racist SOB still. By comparison, if you watch the early Season 1 episodes during the marathon you see just how different Rick and Shane's characters were then vs. what they became.

So that's maybe why Gimple's script finally putting some meat on Merle's character bones and then flushing the character away (no matter how great the death scene, it still feels like flushing away a character who could be a cool counterpoint to the others) feels sort of rushed to some. I can't really tell you if Merle suddenly got a conscience, or if he wanted to kill the Gov to save his brother, or if he was just pissed at the gov and it wasn't anything deeper than that.

I dunno. I hope Gimple becoming showrunner means all sorts of underwritten characters get more to do next season though you can only do so much on an ensemble show.

EW caught up with Norman Reedus for his take on the finale of this past episode:
http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/03/26/the-walking-dead-norman-reedus-daryl-merle-death/

I do get the impression everyone on the cast is getting tired of the constant good byes to cast members. I mean, it just comes with the comic book's territory but it must be painful to keep saying goodbye to cast mates.
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« Reply #988 on: March 29, 2013, 08:11:05 PM »

Thanks for the link to the interview with Merle.  What a damn good actor Rooker and Reedus both are...
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« Reply #989 on: March 29, 2013, 11:10:10 PM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 29, 2013, 08:11:05 PM

Thanks for the link to the interview with Merle.  What a damn good actor Rooker and Reedus both are...

I once got to race go karts with Micheal Rooker.  He was exceptionally cool.
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« Reply #990 on: March 30, 2013, 01:00:41 AM »

Awesome.  How'd that come about? Just curious.
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« Reply #991 on: March 30, 2013, 01:58:52 AM »

Rooker has been in some good movies going way back. Anyone remember Mississippi Burning?

Lot of good characters getting killed off lately. Jeremey, Crixus, Danny, now this.

Hopefully the Governor gets what's coming to him in the finale.

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« Reply #992 on: March 30, 2013, 02:33:15 AM »

Quote from: Blackjack on March 27, 2013, 06:28:51 PM

imho, Merle was sort of underdeveloped this season and the forced gladiator-ish showdown between him and Daryl didn't quite live up to expectations. Sure, it was cool to have him back in the mix. I don't know how often someone disappears in a series pilot and then returns more than 2 seasons later. I just feel like he remained a cipher, and just sort of a irascible, racist SOB still. By comparison, if you watch the early Season 1 episodes during the marathon you see just how different Rick and Shane's characters were then vs. what they became.

So that's maybe why Gimple's script finally putting some meat on Merle's character bones and then flushing the character away (no matter how great the death scene, it still feels like flushing away a character who could be a cool counterpoint to the others) feels sort of rushed to some. I can't really tell you if Merle suddenly got a conscience, or if he wanted to kill the Gov to save his brother, or if he was just pissed at the gov and it wasn't anything deeper than that.

as soon as they started developing him in that episode you knew what was going to happen.
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« Reply #993 on: March 30, 2013, 02:52:26 AM »

just watched episode 15,kinda gutted over Merle he was the fly in the ointment that i thought Rick's party needed,it'll be interesting to see how Daryl takes this...afterwards i mean,I wonder if this will make him crawl back into his shell


Quote from: corruptrelic on March 30, 2013, 01:58:52 AM


Hopefully the Governor gets what's coming to him in the finale.

As much as i want to see The Governor get what's coming to him,i love his character...I think he is a great bad guy,I don't want to see him go just yet,although i expect that's what will happen with it being the end of the season 'different Season=different setting/different threat'

I have to wait until next Friday for the last episode though icon_mad
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #994 on: March 30, 2013, 05:54:28 AM »

Quote from: Eco-Logic on March 30, 2013, 01:00:41 AM

Awesome.  How'd that come about? Just curious.

It was a show I was doing where we'd do goofy stuff during commercial breaks while showing a movie.  We were doing Days of Thunder and got him to come kart racing with me.  Hell of a day.
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« Reply #995 on: April 01, 2013, 03:47:08 AM »

AYFKM?!
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« Reply #996 on: April 01, 2013, 04:02:39 AM »

Season finale thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Saw it. Disappointed.

Going to have to practice
Spoiler for Hiden:
bare feet manipulation of hand tools
in my spare time.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 04:09:26 AM by spigot » Logged

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« Reply #997 on: April 01, 2013, 04:27:05 AM »

WTFOMG?!?!??!?!   eek crybaby eek

Still processing finale, lot of mixed feelings...

Spoiler for Hiden:
This is the first major character departure from the comic, as Andrea is one of the very few remaining originals still left.  I'm kind of bummed out.  She really starts to fill the void after Lori's death, so I don't know what they are going to do on that front now.  I'm wondering if her death was planned from the beginning or partially as a reaction to fans' clear disdain for her this season.  Personally I found her mildly annoying but it seemed like a lot of people really hated her.  I really liked her dynamic with Michonne, and with Milton as well, and I honestly thought they'd play into the "do zombies have anything human left in them" motif once they were stuck together.  Looked like a perfect opportunity to explore that, see Milton have an ounce of humanity left which then saves Andrea.  But maybe that's too idealistic and/or obvious an approach.  This way was more realistic but pretty depressing.

Gov going psycho was a cool scene, guessing he should be back next season...  I thought for sure they'd just take over the town themselves, but I guess it's too big for them to defend.  Looks like a lot of old lady fodder to die next season lol.

Loved the start of the Dark Carl arc, particularly when he puts his wishy washy dad in his place.
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« Reply #998 on: April 01, 2013, 05:42:11 AM »

Spoiler for Hiden:
Bummed they didn't do more to make the prison into a death trap.   And by not taking out the Governor.   Shocked by the turn after the failed raid.   Was not expecting that.   Too bad Martinez was so stunned to do anything about it.   As soon as they pulled back to the door after Miltons attack,  I knew Andrea was a goner.   

Only six months to wait.
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« Reply #999 on: April 01, 2013, 05:57:21 AM »

Disappointing finale
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