The Walking Dead tap dances onto AMC for Season 4

[rittchard]

I still do not agree with you that Shane is being groomed as the villain of the series.  He's done some bad things...but most of the characters on that show have/will have done some bad things.  

Agree with Hep on this, though I may just be blinded by imagining him in his loincloth 

Interestingly in the comic...

Spoiler for Hiden:

He does go bonkers and turn essentially evil, and IIRC Carl ends up killing him.  Clearly they aren't going to go down that route in the show, at least not in the near term.

[hepcat]

The earlier comics in the series were a little unsteady, if I remember correctly.  While still good, Kirkman got much better as the series evolved.

[morlac]

I completely disagree.  Leaving on his own was actually an act of altruism on his part as he realized what he was doing to Rick's family.  

Right, like trying to rape his buddy's wife?  Shane had it all there for a bit.  Well as much as you can ask for in a zombipocalapse.  He had a women, a kid and a clan of followers.  Then Rick came back and took it all.  You could see the resentment form the get go.  He beat the crap outta that one guy.  Sure he had it coming but he totally lost it on him.  Then the whole rape thing.  An now he sacrifices Otis.  To save Rick's kid or his own skin?  Probably a bit of both.  He's not quite pure evil yet but I think he will get there.  Each 'evil' act he commits leads him closer to the dark side.....errr wrong movie.  The head shaving was symbolism for either trying to erase his recent sins or erasing his old self.  I'm leaning towards the later.

You actually called him pure evil in your original post.  What's changed?  I still maintain that Shane was leaving because it was both too painful to see the woman he loves with another man, and because he loves both Lori AND Rick and knew that the triangle would just lead to tragedy at some point.

As for the attempted rape:  he was drunk and despondent.  In his mind he probably thought Lori was going to respond to his advances since they DO have a rather steamy history together (remember the first scene of them gettin' it on in the first season?  go back and watch it and I think you'll see a history of some rather rough lovin' with those two).  When he realized she wasn't down with it via her physical rebuff, he backed off.  If he was as bad as you say he is, he wouldn't have.

Also, he didn't have to say all those kind things about Otis at his funeral to make the widow feel better.  Shane's feeling remorse.  That's not exactly something Darth Vader would've done at the Alderaan memorial ceremony.

I still do not agree with you that Shane is being groomed as the villain of the series.  He's done some bad things...but most of the characters on that show have/will have done some bad things.  

I watched it a second time and backed off my 'pure evil'.  Leaning more towards neutral evil at this point.  I still think he was leaving because of what he lost when Rick came back.  He seems to me to have been a dick to Rick since he came back.  He contradicts his opinions and orders at almost every turn.  

How long exactly was Shane running around with Rick's wife?  A few weeks? (can't quite remember).  Hell even it was 2 months I highly doubt they have been having some hot steamy sex the entire time.  I would think she would have been in mourning for sometime over the loss of her husband.  Is that really enough time to have some kind of steamy history?  I mean if you watch that episode they had to sneak off to even have that one fling so how many times have they really had a chance to build this steamy relationship?  Nobody else was aware of it if you recall.  Also last I checked being drunk wasn't really an excuse to get physical with a woman who is clearly not interested in you, irregardless of a few steamy hookups in the past.

He's definitely conflicted and seems to still exhibit remorse at times but he is losing his humanity more than the the rest.  looks like Merle will be coming back (nice scenes for nextweek assholes) so he will take a backseat on badness for a bit I would guess.  I still think a Rick vs Shane showdown will be coming at some point.  

[Blackjack]

I had this revelation about the ending of Sunday's episode. They could do a spin-off called... (I'll use spoilers, assuming maybe someone here who likes the show still hasn't gotten around to watching Sunday's episode)

Spoiler for Hiden:

Two and a Half Men, and Zombies

It's got Hit Comedy written all over it!

[corruptrelic]

I could have sworn when Rick's wife Sarah went out into the woods at night and pulled that package out it was going to be the condoms.. and to her right, Shane peeks out of the tent and winks at her.

[Punisher]

I still do not agree with you that Shane is being groomed as the villain of the series.  He's done some bad things...but most of the characters on that show have/will have done some bad things.  

Agree with Hep on this, though I may just be blinded by imagining him in his loincloth 

Interestingly in the comic...

Spoiler for Hiden:

He does go bonkers and turn essentially evil, and IIRC Carl ends up killing him.  Clearly they aren't going to go down that route in the show, at least not in the near term.

Spoiler for Hiden:

You are correct. Shane at one point decides that in order to get Lori, he has to kill Rick, so Carl shoots him... It is not too far off to think that this could still happen... Haven't seen Sunday's episode yet, but some mentions Carls hat and the shooting scene in the comic was after he got the hat i think...

[Punisher]

I watched it a second time and backed off my 'pure evil'.  Leaning more towards neutral evil at this point.  I still think he was leaving because of what he lost when Rick came back.  He seems to me to have been a dick to Rick since he came back.  He contradicts his opinions and orders at almost every turn.  

How long exactly was Shane running around with Rick's wife?  A few weeks? (can't quite remember).  Hell even it was 2 months I highly doubt they have been having some hot steamy sex the entire time.  I would think she would have been in mourning for sometime over the loss of her husband.  Is that really enough time to have some kind of steamy history?  I mean if you watch that episode they had to sneak off to even have that one fling so how many times have they really had a chance to build this steamy relationship?  Nobody else was aware of it if you recall.  Also last I checked being drunk wasn't really an excuse to get physical with a woman who is clearly not interested in you, irregardless of a few steamy hookups in the past.

He's definitely conflicted and seems to still exhibit remorse at times but he is losing his humanity more than the the rest.  looks like Merle will be coming back (nice scenes for nextweek assholes) so he will take a backseat on badness for a bit I would guess.  I still think a Rick vs Shane showdown will be coming at some point.  

Spoiler for Hiden:

In the comics they explain that:
1) shane has always had a thing for Lori...
2) They hooked up due to the stress at the time.. Lori was mourning, but also scared and lonely. It was hot and heavy, but not nesescarily "love"... more like lust and stress relief.

[rittchard]

Another kinda slow ep but definitely ramping up for next week.  I really hope they resolve the Sophie stuff soon because it's getting a bit tedious.

I liked the Shane v Rick conflict discussion, it really is interesting food for thought when it comes down to a desperate survival situation.  Sure it's easy to say you'd behave or react one way or another, but both sides certainly have merits.

The Daryl stuff was pretty good, but I've never been much of a fan of his.  As he is one of the few non-comic book characters I'm very curious where they are going with him.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I really thought they were going to have Andrea kill Daryl, the irony of her becoming a super sharpshooter as in the comic offset by the constant guilt over her first killshot being on a friendly.  Would have made for some great stuff for her.

[Blackadar]

They couldn't, rittchard.

Spoiler for Hiden:

I think they painted themselves into a corner with her.  If she killed Daryl, there's very little room for her to do anything beyond stick a gun in her mouth and pull the trigger.

Yeah, I'm tired of Sophie.  At this point, I hope she:

Spoiler for Hiden:

Walks into the barn and gets eaten in gruesome detail.  She deserves it.  She's fucked up the show for 3 episodes now by getting lost.   

[Blackjack]

Daryl's

Spoiler for Hiden:

so popular right now, they could spin him off into his own show, so I highly doubt he'll get offed, though it made for a good ad-break cliffhanger.

It was good to see

Spoiler for Hiden:

Michael Rooker back, although they kind of were obnoxious about shoving his intact hands in the camera's face to say "SEE! It's a DREAM/HALLUCINATION! GET IT?" I got it, already!

Even though I didn't read the comics, I just knew

Spoiler for Hiden:

Herschel had some grim little secret. Though I don't really understand who the zombies in the barn are. Family he couldn't bring to kill? Walkers to experiment on or to try to "cure"? -- that would be more like something Romero would do.

[PeteRock]

I have for the most part been enjoying the episodes.  Definitely a change of pace from last season (and the first episode for this season), but I have my own gripes as well.  I am with those who are tiring of Sophie's storyline, as her mother has been reduced to a neverending source of tears and the search is stalling the main storyline to a halt as the group feels it cannot move on until she is found.  I'm really starting to like Daryl, as he's showing great character, dedication, and resolve, doing more than almost everyone else to try to find the girl.  I've lost all interest in Andrea and hope she does put a gun in her mouth as I'm tired of her whining, her unwillingness to listen to anyone, and her misdirected anger at everyone but herself.  At least with a gun in her maw we'll be spared her complaining for at least a brief moment.  

I also just knew something was amiss with the farm folk.  Anyone who uses the term "kin" should immediately send up red flags of concern.  I'm just worried that with the mid-season break approaching they've been lulling us into a false sense of security and are building up to leave us with such a cliffhanger that the break is going to feel interminable.  

At least Hell on Wheels has been interesting so far and will provide us with a little entertainment until the zombies return.  Is it a little weird though that whenever there are dead bodies on Hell on Wheels I keep expecting them to get up and start moving about?  

[PeteRock]

Even though I didn't read the comics, I just knew

Spoiler for Hiden:

Herschel had some grim little secret. Though I don't really understand who the zombies in the barn are. Family he couldn't bring to kill? Walkers to experiment on or to try to "cure"? -- that would be more like something Romero would do.

I'm going with:

Spoiler for Hiden:

...his kin, as anyone who uses the word "kin" probably is a little too attached to family to let even the flesh-hungry reanimated ones go.

[corruptrelic]

So Rick & Team never noticed the doors on the barn shaking during the day or anything?

Up until this point I was really enjoying the show, but some common sense writers! That many walkers in the barn, hearing the gun shots and smelling the humans living right next to them, and the none of them seeing or hearing anything coming from the barn?

Still going to continue watching as this and Terra Nova (and WWE Raw & Smackdown, of course  ) are the only two shows I'm currently watching. All the good ones got cancelled it seems.

[morlac]

Shane sure does seem like he getting more evil to me.  He is losing it as he somehow still thinks he has a chance with ricks wife.  Showdown between them is coming. 

[Blackjack]

Shane sure does seem like he getting more evil to me.  He is losing it as he somehow still thinks he has a chance with ricks wife.  Showdown between them is coming. 

Actually, I see Rick and Shane running off together, with the song "Love Hurts" playing softly in the background. 

[hepcat]

Shane sure does seem like he getting more evil to me.  He is losing it as he somehow still thinks he has a chance with ricks wife.  Showdown between them is coming. 

So in your view, insanity = evil?

[morlac]

Shane sure does seem like he getting more evil to me.  He is losing it as he somehow still thinks he has a chance with ricks wife.  Showdown between them is coming.  

So in your view, insanity = evil?

I don't recall a because in my above statement.  It was three different thoughts, maybe not all that clear but they are separated by a period.  Shane is quickly throwing his morals out the window as I have been saying  Evil at it's basic form is a lack of morals.  He has now admitted as much saying he is doing this/acting this way because he will do anything to save Rick's wife and kid.  Well she has clearly stated she wants nothing to do with him multiple times.  So why is he doing this exactly?  It must be for self serving reasons and not some sort of obligation to Rick.  Like he thinks he can still bag her by saving her.  So here we have a self serving person willing to do anything to achieve his unrealistic goal/agenda.  That sounds pretty evil to me and like someone is a little off their rocker.

[rittchard]

I don't see Shane as "evil" per se, and I suppose the whole moral ambiguity is part of what makes it so interesting to me.  It's easy to play armchair quarterback and judge from a distance, but how can you be so sure you might not react a similar way in an extreme circumstance and put in such extremely distressing conditions?  If you had to make a choice between your wife/partner/lover/whatever and child/whatever vs. being noble and trying to save everyone, are you sure you'd choose the "good"/noble side?  Are you sure you wouldn't be willing to make certain sacrifices to guarantee the safety of your most cherished loved ones?

In all practicality, Shane is right.  Rick is constantly making poor "tactical" decisions - things like going back to help the racist guy and spreading everyone thin to look for Sophie.  If this was a military operation, the leader would have to be gauging whether it made practical sense to sacrifice X people for the sake of saving Y.  In that regard, even sending Shane and Otis to help (possibly) save Carl was a poor tactical decision.  Yes I know it sounds cold, but it's not inherently "evil."  Just as Sarah said, is Carl really better off being brought back to a world where he is likely to get chewed on by a zombie?  Is it worth possibly sacrificing two men just to increase the odds of saving him, or sacrificing multiple people on the off chance a little girl has been able to survive on her own for days?

[hepcat]

I think morlac is still trying to equate a mental breakdown with being evil, to be honest. 

But to summarize:  Shane hasn't been evil.  He's made some tough decisions that were influenced by his view of the greater good (Bye otis, hello carl...and before you say that was self serving, Shane would've run a hell of a lot faster without all those medical supplies he fought Otis for as fatty lay dying), and his argument with Rick shows that he still views the world in the same way (Lori and Carl come first, everyone else second...which is what Rick eventually comes to grip with in the comics, yet no one calls him evil in that venue).

Selfish?  Perhaps.  But every father on the face of this planet would never willingly sacrifice his child for the greater good without some kind of fight or agonizing moral introspection.  That's not evil, that's just human.

[corruptrelic]

Selfish?  Perhaps.  But every father on the face of this planet would never willingly sacrifice his child for the greater good without some kind of fight or agonizing moral introspection.  That's not evil, that's just human.

[hepcat]

Obviously there are exceptions (fathers CAN be insane sociopaths..but statistically that number is so few as to be nonexistent)...Shane not being one of them though as Carl is still alive and healthy thanks to him.  

[CeeKay]

there's new spanking free?

[corruptrelic]

Obviously there are exceptions (fathers CAN be insane sociopaths..but statistically that number is so few as to be nonexistent)...Shane not being one of them though as Carl is still alive and healthy thanks to him.  

Did Mitt Romney hack into HepC's account and flip flop his words around again?

[hepcat]

Obviously there are exceptions (fathers CAN be insane sociopaths..but statistically that number is so few as to be nonexistent)...Shane not being one of them though as Carl is still alive and healthy thanks to him.  

Did Mitt Romney hack into HepC's account and flip flop his words around again?

hyperbole

[Caine]

so there's a big glaring aspect of Daryl's recent event that seems to have evaded notice. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

he shot himself with a crossbow bolt, one which he has used to great effect to kill zombies.  by all rights, he's just contracted the disease as I'm pretty sure he never swabbed down the bolt with alchohol after each kill.

[Scraper]

so there's a big glaring aspect of Daryl's recent event that seems to have evaded notice. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

he shot himself with a crossbow bolt, one which he has used to great effect to kill zombies.  by all rights, he's just contracted the disease as I'm pretty sure he never swabbed down the bolt with alchohol after each kill.

You're assuming that he used that specific bolt to kill a zombie, that he didn't wipe it down, and the bolt was still contagious a couple of days later. That's a lot to assume. Plus I don't think they are going to kill Daryl off, he's too popular.

[Moliere]

so there's a big glaring aspect of Daryl's recent event that seems to have evaded notice. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

he shot himself with a crossbow bolt, one which he has used to great effect to kill zombies.  by all rights, he's just contracted the disease as I'm pretty sure he never swabbed down the bolt with alchohol after each kill.

You're assuming that he used that specific bolt to kill a zombie, that he didn't wipe it down, and the bolt was still contagious a couple of days later. That's a lot to assume. Plus I don't think they are going to kill Daryl off, he's too popular.

Besides, its always been a glaring defect that they use bats and knives at close quarters without ever worrying about blood splatter. Look at yesterday's episode in the pharmacy. The guy walks away without a drop of blood on him after smashing the skull in of a walker 5 or 6 times.

[naednek]

Does anyone really believe she threw up all the day after pills?

[Crawley]

This show generates some serious nit picking.

[Punisher]

so there's a big glaring aspect of Daryl's recent event that seems to have evaded notice. 

Spoiler for Hiden:

he shot himself with a crossbow bolt, one which he has used to great effect to kill zombies.  by all rights, he's just contracted the disease as I'm pretty sure he never swabbed down the bolt with alchohol after each kill.

You're assuming that he used that specific bolt to kill a zombie, that he didn't wipe it down, and the bolt was still contagious a couple of days later. That's a lot to assume. Plus I don't think they are going to kill Daryl off, he's too popular.

Not true... Coming Soon: the Adventures of Daryl the Zombie!

[Soulchilde]

This Sophie storyline is starting to wear very thin with me and with a mid-season finale next week they need to wrap it up soon.  While my enjoyment for the Walking Dead is decreasing I am glad for shows like Sons of Anarchy that continue to deliver on a weekly bases.  


My thoughts on Sophie btw

Spoiler for Hiden:

Michonne found her in the woods.  Btw, if the writers fuck with Michonne character I will be PISSED

[hepcat]

This Sophie storyline is starting to wear very thin with me and with a mid-season finale next week they need to wrap it up soon.  While my enjoyment for the Walking Dead is decreasing I am glad for shows like Sons of Anarchy that continue to deliver on a weekly bases.  


My thoughts on Sophie btw

Spoiler for Hiden:

Michonne found her in the woods.  Btw, if the writers fuck with Michonne character I will be PISSED

Spoiler for Hiden:

While I would be happy as I think almost any change would be an improvement. 

[Blackjack]

Wow,  not that was a mid-season finale. I can't believe we don't get another episode until February. 

And if you

Spoiler for Hiden:

were sick of Sophie's storyline, they fixed THAT, huh?

[corruptrelic]

Way too long of a break before episodes. I remember Battlestar Galactica doing this half way through the season as well, almost to the point of you tend to forget what happened during the first half of the season when they wait half a year just to continue it.

Think I'm going to have to start finding some new shows on netflix to catch up on in the mean time. Started catching up on the Vampire Diaries but am not sure it's worth getting into yet. Might give it a few more episodes to see if it's worth continuing.

As far as the last episode, very well done.

[Caine]

yeah, no complaints here.  damn.  they managed to resolve the first big hanging thread for this season and in an expected and yet, still wrenching to watch.  I wonder what that will do to the rest of them. 

yeah, waiting until february will be tough.  I get why they want to wait, but two months is a bit much.

[CeeKay]

yeah, waiting until february will be tough.  I get why they want to wait, but two months is a bit much.

just remember we only had 6 episodes last year and had to wait almost a year for season two, so two months for more episodes isn't really all that bad, and hopefully it will mean less of a wait for season 3.

[corruptrelic]

Well that was between seasons, this is still the same season with a nearly 3 month wait. (Next episode isn't until February 12th)

When you only watch 2 or 3 current tv shows (all my favorites, 24, Caprica, BSG, Firefly, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Camelot) are no longer around so it's tough.. which is why I'm scanning Netflix to see what else I could catch up on in the mean time. Any suggestions?

[hepcat]

Well that was between seasons, this is still the same season with a nearly 3 month wait. (Next episode isn't until February 12th)

When you only watch 2 or 3 current tv shows (all my favorites, 24, Caprica, BSG, Firefly, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Camelot) are no longer around so it's tough.. which is why I'm scanning Netflix to see what else I could catch up on in the mean time. Any suggestions?

Ceekay seems to enjoy any show that's expressly targeted at teen girls, so keep that in mind when looking to him for suggestions...

As for last night's mid-season finale...wow.  Heart wrenching, that's all I can say.

[CeeKay]

Well that was between seasons, this is still the same season with a nearly 3 month wait. (Next episode isn't until February 12th)

When you only watch 2 or 3 current tv shows (all my favorites, 24, Caprica, BSG, Firefly, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Camelot) are no longer around so it's tough.. which is why I'm scanning Netflix to see what else I could catch up on in the mean time. Any suggestions?

I'm just saying it's better than 6 episodes every year when you think about it.

as for Netflix and current (or recently finished) shows,  there's Breaking Bad, The Tudors, MI-5 and Sons of Anarchy that you might enjoy.  An older show like Farscape might fiil the BSG/Caprica/Firefly void if you haven't seen it.

Hepcat keeps texting me to watch Desperate Housewives though.

[hepcat]

Well that was between seasons, this is still the same season with a nearly 3 month wait. (Next episode isn't until February 12th)

When you only watch 2 or 3 current tv shows (all my favorites, 24, Caprica, BSG, Firefly, Sarah Connor Chronicles, Camelot) are no longer around so it's tough.. which is why I'm scanning Netflix to see what else I could catch up on in the mean time. Any suggestions?

I'm just saying it's better than 6 episodes every year when you think about it.

as for Netflix and current (or recently finished) shows,  there's Breaking Bad, The Tudors, MI-5 and Sons of Anarchy that you might enjoy.  An older show like Farscape might fiil the BSG/Caprica/Firefly void if you haven't seen it.

Hepcat keeps texting me to watch Desperate Housewives though.

+1 on the Farscape...and pretty much everything else you mention except the latter seasons of MI-5.

...and I wouldn't need to text you about DS if you'd just friggin' watch it!  It's on Netflix and I need to discuss Gabby's antics with someone!