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Question: The RealID act, what's your feeling?
Never heard of it. - 8 (19%)
Not concerned at all. - 9 (21.4%)
I am slightly concerned. - 3 (7.1%)
I am very concerned. - 6 (14.3%)
Oh f*ck no! - 16 (38.1%)
Total Voters: 42

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Author Topic: The RealID act, what's your feeling?  (Read 1897 times)
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Kobra
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« on: September 14, 2006, 03:15:48 AM »

What is the RealID act? (which has become law with max 3 years to implement)

It was snuck into a Tsunami Relief spending bill, and by 2008 requires every man, women, and child in the USA to submit to a national RFID implanted ID card which contains vital information on each person. All of this data, every action you take while using the card will be stored in a central government database.  Many locations will be required to have RealID "Zones" where as you pass through it will covertly scan your card.

Without this National ID, you won't...

    * Drive your car
    * Board a plane, train, or bus
    * Enter any federal building
    * Open a bank account
    * Hold a job

If you canít hold a job or have a bank account, how much buying and selling will you be able to do?

The Bill Itself;
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c109:H.R.418:

How this may effect you;
http://news.com.com/2102-1028_3-5697111.html?tag=st.util.print

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« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2006, 03:47:16 AM »

If it'll help stem the tide of illegal aliens, I'm all for it.
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JLu
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« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2006, 12:19:57 PM »

All in favor of it -- reading the basic description it's no different than a drivers license is today, except theoretically it'll be tougher to fake.
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Kobra
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« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2006, 12:49:03 PM »

Quote from: JLu on September 14, 2006, 12:19:57 PM

All in favor of it -- reading the basic description it's no different than a drivers license is today, except theoretically it'll be tougher to fake.

Sorry but a drivers license today, is nothing remotely similar to a standardized national ID system required for all travel and almost any financial transaction.  Drivers licenses are also not stored on a central database and data-mined, or linked with other information.  It won't take long for this to be scanned at "Bars", whereas the government can instantly tell your alchol consumption.  See the problem yet?

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« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2006, 01:56:04 PM »

How exactly are they going to tell what your alcohol consumption is?  If it is by purchase well that is flawed logic, just because you paid for it doesn't mean you drank it.  Ever buy a round or split a tab?
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« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2006, 02:03:44 PM »

"What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address"

Seems like this would help people that do identify theft. Just go to a crowded area with a RFID reader and grab the data off the cards.

But it would be nice in bars as you could always get her name & number smile

EDIT: Hopefully my in-laws won't hear about this or I'll have to hear about how its the sign of the end times/mark of the beast when I'm over there.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 02:06:07 PM by Creepy_Smell » Logged

dmd
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« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2006, 02:22:03 PM »

A total clusterfuck.  One step closer. 
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JLu
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2006, 02:30:16 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on September 14, 2006, 12:49:03 PM

Quote from: JLu on September 14, 2006, 12:19:57 PM

All in favor of it -- reading the basic description it's no different than a drivers license is today, except theoretically it'll be tougher to fake.

Sorry but a drivers license today, is nothing remotely similar to a standardized national ID system required for all travel and almost any financial transaction.  Drivers licenses are also not stored on a central database and data-mined, or linked with other information.  It won't take long for this to be scanned at "Bars", whereas the government can instantly tell your alchol consumption.  See the problem yet?


Have you ever flown on a plane, or gone to a bank to take money out of your account with a teller?  I've had to give them my license for both of those transactions for years, and see no difference.

I'll acknowledge your slipperly slope to us becoming Nazi Germany comment, but won't bother responding to such silliness.
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jament
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2006, 04:52:23 PM »

The real problem is implementation.  In Wyoming, I attended a legislative meeting a couple months ago where they talked about the state's inability to implement almost all of the requirements of the card.

They don't have the staff to check birth certificates, etc, for each person applying for a card.  Their initial estimate was that one-third of all applicants would have to get a copy of their birth certificate from Vital Records, impacting that office greatly.  The state doesn't have the ability to encode the machine-readable data into an ID, by magnetic strip, EBC or RFID.  They also don't have the server infrastructure to link their records database with other states, as required in the act, or to provide "electronic access" to other states.  Estimated cost for this low-populated state to comply was $5 - $8 million and that doesn't include things Homeland Security could add, like fingerprint or retinal scans.  It's a joke.  There's no word on what level of funding will be received from Homeland Security to fund the project so at this point states are pretty much on their own.

I don't object to the idea in the abstract but in reality... wow, what an expense. 

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Kobra
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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2006, 06:13:08 PM »

Certainly the expense will be drastic.  Of course, Microsoft and HP already formed an "Alliance" to make billions on supplying the RFID reading software and hardware.  I am sure specific companies will be tapped to implement it all, making  millions.  States will be tapped dry, our taxes will likely increase, already some states are saying Drivers License renewals will go up 300% or more to offset some of the cost, for me that probably means $200.00 to get my license renewed.

RFID blocking wallet inserts, bags and envelopes are available already. For people that don't want to toss their personal ID out to every hoodlum on the street with a RFID hacking machine out scanning for people.

http://www.emvelope.com/products

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Doopri
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2006, 07:13:05 PM »

i dunno my gut feeling tells me that being required to show a license to verify that i am who i am is quite different from being required to carry a card that actively broadcasts personal information and potentially location.  i mean, im not a bald eagle or migrating fish!

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Doopri
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« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2006, 07:17:58 PM »

although - the implications for junk mail are exciting:

"We noticed you standing outside of Victorias Secret for 17.6 seconds, and thought you may be interested in this catalogue and pre-approved Visa"

yay for new non-email spam!
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Kobra
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« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2006, 08:44:33 PM »

Quote from: Doopri on September 14, 2006, 07:17:58 PM

although - the implications for junk mail are exciting:

"We noticed you standing outside of Victorias Secret for 17.6 seconds, and thought you may be interested in this catalogue and pre-approved Visa"

yay for new non-email spam!

Or what about if it scanned you entering a place like this?



Then in a few years, you decide to run for mayor as a democrat, and the republicans control access to "The database", and quietly leak out your patterns.. Dunno, could happen, just sayin'.
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Big Jake
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« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2006, 10:50:19 PM »

Well, gee, I've not hesitated once to let it be known my overriding HATRED for all 'we need to invade your privacy for your own good!' bullshit, so imagine how I feel about this?  The only thing is, the natural cynic in me says good fucking luck getting 300 million people to get ID tags with an RFID device in three years. 

And as for anyone stupid enough to think this sounds like a 'good idea', I am now throwing a copy of 1984 at your head.  No government in the history of mankind has used greater control over masses of peons for the beneft of the peons.
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Kobra
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« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2006, 11:02:00 PM »

My wife and I are seriously considering our options to not only avoid this, but to simply vacate this country because of all of the shit going on.  The problem is, thanks to 9/11, actually "Moving" to another country is extremely difficult now, even for skilled professionals.  Canada isn't a haven anymore, they are adopting the RealID policy.  I must confess, our options seem fairly grim at this point to find a suitable location.

Not to mention it would require substantial cost and effort.    Rumor has it, New Hampshire passed a law outlawing the RealID in their state, a state that also has no sales or income taxes (and a state motto "Live free or die").  Maybe we'll go there and hope for the best.. LOL  Rumor has it, this is where freedom lovers will make their last stand.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2006, 11:05:37 PM by Kobra » Logged

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Farscry
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« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2006, 12:31:19 AM »

I knew it was only a matter of time.  But fuck.

Well, only highlights further what the powerful elite think of us and why our nickname as a whole is "useless eaters".
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JLu
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« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2006, 02:57:29 PM »

New Hampshire's state motto is indeed "Live Free Or Die", and there is no state income tax.  But the property tax is so high, it ends up equalling out to similar taxes you'd pay anywhere else...
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Farscry
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« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2006, 03:24:01 PM »

Quote from: JLu on September 15, 2006, 02:57:29 PM

New Hampshire's state motto is indeed "Live Free Or Die", and there is no state income tax.  But the property tax is so high, it ends up equalling out to similar taxes you'd pay anywhere else...

Yeah, if they don't get you one way with taxes, they typically get you another way instead.  Louisiana was like that; low income tax, but high property tax.
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Kobra
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« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2006, 04:42:19 PM »

Quote from: JLu on September 15, 2006, 02:57:29 PM

New Hampshire's state motto is indeed "Live Free Or Die", and there is no state income tax.  But the property tax is so high, it ends up equalling out to similar taxes you'd pay anywhere else...

I've examined their property taxes, for my home, if it was mirrored in NH,  I would pay $1000.00 less a year.  Remember, in many places we have income taxes, sales taxes AND high property taxes.  So no, it doesn't end up equalling what I would pay anywhere else, much less here.  Of course if I want to move out to redneckville and live next to people with pickup engines in their front yards, I could save money on property tax.  Property taxes in some areas are high for a reason.  There is no better filter to keep a certain class of people in your area than having a specific bracket for property taxes, for example if you own a home and rent it out, you pay double property taxes here, hence there are little to no rental properties, which keeps MY property values up - and this makes me happy.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 04:44:02 PM by Kobra » Logged

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« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2006, 08:42:00 PM »

Don't care.  I'm relatively certain that if the gubment wanted to track me, they'd have zero problems doing so with or without this ID.

* gellar is all for the FUTUAR.
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« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2006, 09:38:14 PM »

Voted "don't care".

According to the endless reruns of "Enemy of the State" they can already track us all anway.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2006, 09:45:02 PM »

Quote
i mean, im not a bald eagle or migrating fish!

Are you.....sure?!   saywhat

Seriously, the whole thing will fall apart when folks like the ACLU get hold of it.  ID theft is already HUUUUGE and this'll only add to it.  I've had my Identity stolen once already, I won't go through it again.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go put more tin foil on my hat.
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« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2006, 11:46:10 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 15, 2006, 09:45:02 PM

Seriously, the whole thing will fall apart when folks like the ACLU get hold of it.  ID theft is already HUUUUGE and this'll only add to it.  I've had my Identity stolen once already, I won't go through it again.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go put more tin foil on my hat.

Isn't preventing identity theft part of the stated motivation for this thing?

Of course we all know the real motivation is so the NSA can follow me as I go from work to home to work to home to work to daycare.

I pity the NSA fool who follows me and my boring-ass life.
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« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2006, 11:59:01 PM »

Quote from: Exodor on September 15, 2006, 11:46:10 PM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on September 15, 2006, 09:45:02 PM

Seriously, the whole thing will fall apart when folks like the ACLU get hold of it.  ID theft is already HUUUUGE and this'll only add to it.  I've had my Identity stolen once already, I won't go through it again.  Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go put more tin foil on my hat.

Isn't preventing identity theft part of the stated motivation for this thing?

Of course we all know the real motivation is so the NSA can follow me as I go from work to home to work to home to work to daycare.

I pity the NSA fool who follows me and my boring-ass life.

Yep, but as soon as you put a transmitter with my data on the card, it is going to have the reverse effect. 

I'm with you on the boring life.  Reports would look like:
"Uh...it looks like he sat in a chair for 9 hours at work, drove home and sat in his chair for 4 hours at his computer, went to martial arts for 2 hours, and went home."

"Ok, that covers today."

"No sir...that covers every day.  I'm gonna kill myself if I have to keep watching."
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« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2006, 02:16:10 AM »

That's sorta like mine, except my NSA guy would make comments like "DAYUM, how many hot movie star women is this guy going to bring home every day?!"

 nod
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2006, 02:32:13 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on September 16, 2006, 02:16:10 AM

That's sorta like mine, except my NSA guy would make comments like "DAYUM, how many hot movie star women is this guy going to bring home every day?!"

Looking at their pictures on the internet does not count as "bringing them home."
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2006, 03:23:14 AM »

Quote from: Exodor on September 16, 2006, 02:32:13 AM

Quote from: Farscry on September 16, 2006, 02:16:10 AM

That's sorta like mine, except my NSA guy would make comments like "DAYUM, how many hot movie star women is this guy going to bring home every day?!"

Looking at their pictures on the internet does not count as "bringing them home."

Zing!  Good one.

"Hey baby....I'm gonna have you tonight whether you are there or not, you might as well be there."

Works every time.
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« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2006, 05:53:39 AM »

Awww, you guys are no fun, stripping my fantasies away from me!  crybaby
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« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2006, 07:16:24 PM »

It's funny that just the other day I was looking at my original Social Security card (issued back in the mid 60s) and it says "This card is not to be used for identity purposes". Yet how many times have I had to use it to "prove" my i.d.?
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Kobra
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« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2006, 07:46:42 PM »

Quote from: dbt1949 on September 16, 2006, 07:16:24 PM

It's funny that just the other day I was looking at my original Social Security card (issued back in the mid 60s) and it says "This card is not to be used for identity purposes". Yet how many times have I had to use it to "prove" my i.d.?

Correct, I think there are laws saying it shouldn't be used to ID people.  The reason that disclaimer is on there is because people feared they would be used as nationalID card, and there was active fighting of that move.  I don't give my SS# out anymore, to anyone, not even doctors offices.
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« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2006, 03:04:39 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on September 15, 2006, 04:42:19 PM

There is no better filter to keep a certain class of people in your area than having a specific bracket for property taxes,

If the theories are to be believed, the National ID card would work even better    icon_biggrin
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« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2006, 08:19:20 PM »

Here's a fun thing I ran across.

Quote
The total cost of issuing new licenses with embedded computer chips to 196 million drivers could reach $17.4 billion, or $348 million per state. The average cost of a license would shoot from between $10 to $25 to more than $93

And I might have missed it, but are you sure it's an active transmission RFID chip and not a passive data RFID chip?

This is headed towards a massive battle in the courts, I think, as the Federal Govt and State Govts will collide over supremacy on it.
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Kobra
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« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2006, 08:53:10 PM »

Quote from: Eightball on September 17, 2006, 08:19:20 PM

Here's a fun thing I ran across.

Quote
The total cost of issuing new licenses with embedded computer chips to 196 million drivers could reach $17.4 billion, or $348 million per state. The average cost of a license would shoot from between $10 to $25 to more than $93

And I might have missed it, but are you sure it's an active transmission RFID chip and not a passive data RFID chip?

This is headed towards a massive battle in the courts, I think, as the Federal Govt and State Govts will collide over supremacy on it.

Its going to get ugly, thats for sure.  $93 to renew my license?  LOL fat chance of getting the masses to pay that.
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« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2006, 09:21:30 PM »

Quote from: Farscry on September 16, 2006, 05:53:39 AM

Awww, you guys are no fun, stripping my fantasies away from me!  crybaby

At least they didn't bring up the dead hookers....  paranoid
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« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2006, 11:01:37 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on September 17, 2006, 09:21:30 PM

Quote from: Farscry on September 16, 2006, 05:53:39 AM

Awww, you guys are no fun, stripping my fantasies away from me!  crybaby

At least they didn't bring up the dead hookers....  paranoid

Don't you need a necromancer for that?
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« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2006, 04:57:05 PM »

Quote from: CrayolaSmoker on September 17, 2006, 11:01:37 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on September 17, 2006, 09:21:30 PM

Quote from: Farscry on September 16, 2006, 05:53:39 AM

Awww, you guys are no fun, stripping my fantasies away from me!  crybaby

At least they didn't bring up the dead hookers....  paranoid

Don't you need a necromancer for that?

Yup. I'm keeping the bodies in my car trunk just in ca-- err, no, I mean...

Hey, look, shiny object!  *points and runs away*
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« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2006, 06:08:59 PM »

I'll carry a "RealID" only when they pry it into my cold, dead hands.

 icon_twisted
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« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2006, 07:03:47 PM »

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« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2006, 08:29:11 PM »

Quote from: VynlSol on September 18, 2006, 07:03:47 PM



Many bible prophecy buffs believe that the "Mark of the Beast" will simply be a national ID system imbedded into the palm of the hand or on the forehead (as pictured).
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« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2006, 01:33:32 AM »

I have confidence they will manage my personal data correctly.  :icon_eek:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060922/D8K9JKFO0.html

Quote
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