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Author Topic: (Not an easy topic) Death,crowd funding?,profit?,donate?-what are your thoughts  (Read 332 times)
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Roman
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« on: February 23, 2015, 04:26:11 PM »

Back story:
Something terrible happened here in Toronto last week. A 3yr old child managed to leave his room / residence in a diaper, boots and tshirt in the early morning (security footage shows 4am) and exit the building.
Todler was later found approx 6.5hrs later lying in snow next to a home in a lane way, all attempts to revive failed.
Temps that day were with windchill: -33 C or -27.4 F

Concerned citizen with children of his own decides to set up crowd funding to cover funeral costs -he hoped to raise $20k. It grew to just over $170k.

Today:
There are some comments being registered via social media that the deceased's family should take the $20k for the funeral costs and donate the remainder to (for example) children's charities etc etc.

There are other calls for (believe it or not) for the citizen who created the crowd funding to setup other sites to take care of the other people who need it (how dare he forget about the other people[as an example])

What are your thoughts? Why has this world become so jaded and angry - in your opinion?

« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 09:05:18 PM by Roman » Logged

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Roman
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2015, 05:53:38 PM »

Okay I'll begin.

Yes - I'm a parent of one.

I'd like to think that I would use the funds for the funeral and donate the rest to other worthy charities. Maybe even the daycare where my child attended etc etc.
I'm not sure I would be comfortable with the excess funds. No amount of money would replace a loved one and I'd like to think that I would keep in mind the wishes of the original thought for the fundraising.

I guess in hindsight the crowd funding could have been capped at $20k too?

I dunno.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2015, 06:09:22 PM »

With a situation that messed up, I wouldn't fault the parents no matter what they did with the money.  The best thing to do probably would be to pay for the death-related expenses (without being restricted to precisely $20k) and then doing something philanthropic with the rest, but unless there was something in the fine print of the crowdfunding it's their money to use however they want, and in the face of a terrible tragedy it's easy to not make your finest decisions.

edit: I misread who did the fundraising.  If it was just Some Guy who raised the money, then yes, he'll go to hell if he keeps any of the money for himself
« Last Edit: February 23, 2015, 07:07:31 PM by wonderpug » Logged
Teggy
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2015, 06:38:33 PM »

Was this unpreventable? I'm actually surprised the parents are getting so much sympathy based on the description.
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wonderpug
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 23, 2015, 06:38:33 PM

Was this unpreventable? I'm actually surprised the parents are getting so much sympathy based on the description.

There's only so much you can do to kid-proof the entire world.  If the kid had never left his room on his own before, let alone solo opened the front door to the house, I think it's understandable that the parents never saw that as a high risk for that kid.

I've got a fishtank in my house, and conceivably my 4.5 year old could quietly leave her room while we were sleeping, walk downstairs, drag a stepstool of some sort over to the fishtank, open the lid, fall in, and drown.  But my daughter has never exhibited any behavior around the fishtank that would make her seem interested in doing anything remotely close to that action, and she doesn't even ever leave her room on her own unless we open the door for her or tell her over the baby monitor that she can come downstairs.

Should I find some way to completely strap down the lid to the fishtank even though it's seems extraordinarily unlikely that anything would actually happen?  I mean, I admit talking through the fishtank scenario now makes me want to strap down the lid out of the self-induced fear I just gave myself, but I'm sure if I put my mind to it (and hated myself) I could think of even more hypothetical deadly scenarios for my kids.

I guess when my daughter was even younger but not using a crib, I did have a childproof doohickey on her bedroom door knob to stop her from leaving her room on her own, so maybe there was more the parents in the OP could've/should've done.  But I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt unless I hear otherwise.

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2015, 07:15:49 PM »

Parents should keep all the money. It was raised for them, let them have it.

The egregious thing is that it takes 20k to bury anyone.
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2015, 07:16:24 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.

I don't think he should keep any either, but this made me start to wonder about the tax implications of all that money technically going to person A who then gives it to person B as a "gift".  The fund starter will be on record as having earned that $170k, right?  That probably puts a huge tax burden on that person, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.
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farley2k
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2015, 07:17:59 PM »

When I give to something like this I don't expect to have strings attached.  Let the parents have it, let the creator of the crowd fund have it, whatever.  I give because I want to.
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Roman
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2015, 08:02:36 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on February 23, 2015, 07:16:24 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.

I don't think he should keep any either, but this made me start to wonder about the tax implications of all that money technically going to person A who then gives it to person B as a "gift".  The fund starter will be on record as having earned that $170k, right?  That probably puts a huge tax burden on that person, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

No No No. The concerned citizen is not keeping any of the money. All the funds are going to the parents.
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Teggy
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2015, 08:14:19 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 23, 2015, 06:38:33 PM

Was this unpreventable? I'm actually surprised the parents are getting so much sympathy based on the description.

There's only so much you can do to kid-proof the entire world.  If the kid had never left his room on his own before, let alone solo opened the front door to the house, I think it's understandable that the parents never saw that as a high risk for that kid.

I've got a fishtank in my house, and conceivably my 4.5 year old could quietly leave her room while we were sleeping, walk downstairs, drag a stepstool of some sort over to the fishtank, open the lid, fall in, and drown.  But my daughter has never exhibited any behavior around the fishtank that would make her seem interested in doing anything remotely close to that action, and she doesn't even ever leave her room on her own unless we open the door for her or tell her over the baby monitor that she can come downstairs.

Should I find some way to completely strap down the lid to the fishtank even though it's seems extraordinarily unlikely that anything would actually happen?  I mean, I admit talking through the fishtank scenario now makes me want to strap down the lid out of the self-induced fear I just gave myself, but I'm sure if I put my mind to it (and hated myself) I could think of even more hypothetical deadly scenarios for my kids.

I guess when my daughter was even younger but not using a crib, I did have a childproof doohickey on her bedroom door knob to stop her from leaving her room on her own, so maybe there was more the parents in the OP could've/should've done.  But I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt unless I hear otherwise.

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.

I wasn't specifically judging, I was more curious if there were any more details to the case, like the parents were out partying and left the kid home alone or something.
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EngineNo9
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2015, 08:17:10 PM »

Quote from: Roman on February 23, 2015, 08:02:36 PM

Quote from: EngineNo9 on February 23, 2015, 07:16:24 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.

I don't think he should keep any either, but this made me start to wonder about the tax implications of all that money technically going to person A who then gives it to person B as a "gift".  The fund starter will be on record as having earned that $170k, right?  That probably puts a huge tax burden on that person, to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars.

No No No. The concerned citizen is not keeping any of the money. All the funds are going to the parents.

So who pays the concerned citizen's $50,000 in taxes come next year?  That's the reality of the situation.
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wonderpug
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hmm...


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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2015, 08:22:24 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on February 23, 2015, 07:17:59 PM

When I give to something like this I don't expect to have strings attached.  Let the parents have it, let the creator of the crowd fund have it, whatever.  I give because I want to.

Wouldn't bother you a bit if the Tragic Child Funeral fund you were donating to turned out to be the Tragic Child Funeral but Mainly Buy Some Guy a Lamborghini fund?
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Roman
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2015, 08:24:22 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 23, 2015, 08:14:19 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 07:06:21 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 23, 2015, 06:38:33 PM

Was this unpreventable? I'm actually surprised the parents are getting so much sympathy based on the description.

There's only so much you can do to kid-proof the entire world.  If the kid had never left his room on his own before, let alone solo opened the front door to the house, I think it's understandable that the parents never saw that as a high risk for that kid.

I've got a fishtank in my house, and conceivably my 4.5 year old could quietly leave her room while we were sleeping, walk downstairs, drag a stepstool of some sort over to the fishtank, open the lid, fall in, and drown.  But my daughter has never exhibited any behavior around the fishtank that would make her seem interested in doing anything remotely close to that action, and she doesn't even ever leave her room on her own unless we open the door for her or tell her over the baby monitor that she can come downstairs.

Should I find some way to completely strap down the lid to the fishtank even though it's seems extraordinarily unlikely that anything would actually happen?  I mean, I admit talking through the fishtank scenario now makes me want to strap down the lid out of the self-induced fear I just gave myself, but I'm sure if I put my mind to it (and hated myself) I could think of even more hypothetical deadly scenarios for my kids.

I guess when my daughter was even younger but not using a crib, I did have a childproof doohickey on her bedroom door knob to stop her from leaving her room on her own, so maybe there was more the parents in the OP could've/should've done.  But I'm inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt unless I hear otherwise.

edit to my previous post:  I misread Roman's post the first time and didn't realize it was an unrelated other citizen who did the crowdfunding rather than the toddler's parents.  That changes everything, and if he keeps a single dime for his own personal benefit then yes, he's going to hell.

I wasn't specifically judging, I was more curious if there were any more details to the case, like the parents were out partying and left the kid home alone or something.

Well there were more details but I specifically left them out so that we could talk about the issue without any pre-conceived ideas....

He was staying at his grandparents apartment. He was put to bed around 9-10pm and made it out of bed, out of the apartment, down the elevator (or stairs - unknown) and out of the building (captured on camera)
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farley2k
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« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2015, 08:46:26 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on February 23, 2015, 08:22:24 PM

Quote from: farley2k on February 23, 2015, 07:17:59 PM

When I give to something like this I don't expect to have strings attached.  Let the parents have it, let the creator of the crowd fund have it, whatever.  I give because I want to.

Wouldn't bother you a bit if the Tragic Child Funeral fund you were donating to turned out to be the Tragic Child Funeral but Mainly Buy Some Guy a Lamborghini fund?

Not really, as long as the funeral was fully covered.  Once the money goes into the "pot" so to speak then I can't really say which of the donations paid for the funeral and which bought the car.  Perhaps a 100% of my donation bought casket and flowers.  It was the other people's money that went for the car.  Who knows.

Now I would hope that having that kind of tragedy and seeing people's generosity the family would pass what along to others but I don't give it with the condition that it must be passed along.
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Roman
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2015, 01:29:00 PM »

Quote from: farley2k on February 23, 2015, 08:46:26 PM

Now I would hope that having that kind of tragedy and seeing people's generosity the family would pass what along to others but I don't give it with the condition that it must be passed along.

My thoughts exactly.
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