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Author Topic: the Apple iPad  (Read 51188 times)
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The Grue
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« Reply #280 on: February 01, 2010, 05:46:08 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:27:12 PM

What to watch for is if there will be a Kindle app on the iPad. A Kindle app on the iPad would mean that a person could price compare between Apple and Amazon. It seems unlikely that Apple would block it, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it arrives.

If it works on the iPhone, shouldn't it also work on the iPad?
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« Reply #281 on: February 01, 2010, 05:56:39 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 01, 2010, 05:46:08 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:27:12 PM

What to watch for is if there will be a Kindle app on the iPad. A Kindle app on the iPad would mean that a person could price compare between Apple and Amazon. It seems unlikely that Apple would block it, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it arrives.

If it works on the iPhone, shouldn't it also work on the iPad?

I don't know - will iPhone apps "just work" on the iPad? Will it blow up the text the correct size without any distortion? If so, it will be there day 1.

Didn't they just enable a web app of Google voice that works on the iPhone?
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« Reply #282 on: February 01, 2010, 06:07:26 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 04:38:00 PM

I've read quite a few blogs attempting to show how Amazon is bad but I just don't see it.  For me, $9.99 e-books are better than $15.00 ebooks.  If Amazon wants to suck up the other $5.00 per copy then I don't see a problem with.  We don't complain when other companies use similar loss leader practices so why complain now?  

(I was a drone at Macmillan about 5 years ago. I don't think that colors the following much, but it might be in ways I'm not picking up on.)

I believe the general idea behind loss leaders is that you'll take a small loss on one product to get consumers in the door in hopes they'll buy something profitable while they're shopping with you.  That doesn't seem to be Amazon's strategy with the Kindle.  It looks like they're willing to take a loss on both the Kindle and the e-book files for it, for a relatively long period of time, in order to lock in market dominance down the road.  That's "bad" for consumers if you think that they're going to up prices in some unreasonable manner once they've crushed their competition.  I think it's more likely that they just planned on forcing publishers to sell them ebooks at a much higher discount later on, which could be "bad" for the publishing industry in a more abstract way, but that's just a guess on my part.

Personally, I don't think Amazon is doing anything "bad" in the ethical sense here.   Business is business and they would be dumb not to use their market share to negotiate however they like.  However, if their business plan for the Kindle really did rely on them being the only player in town, well, it's probably going to have to change significantly now. 


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« Reply #283 on: February 01, 2010, 06:16:33 PM »

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:56:39 PM

Quote from: The Grue on February 01, 2010, 05:46:08 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:27:12 PM

What to watch for is if there will be a Kindle app on the iPad. A Kindle app on the iPad would mean that a person could price compare between Apple and Amazon. It seems unlikely that Apple would block it, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it arrives.

If it works on the iPhone, shouldn't it also work on the iPad?

I don't know - will iPhone apps "just work" on the iPad? Will it blow up the text the correct size without any distortion? If so, it will be there day 1.

Didn't they just enable a web app of Google voice that works on the iPhone?

Apple refused to certify the Google Voice app because it duplicated native iPhone functionality - Google has now worked around it by offering Google Voice as an HTML5 app, but it's not able to integrate with the apps on the phone.  For example, you can't get access to your contacts; you have to make/maintain a separate list within Google Voice.

I would suggest that the Kindle app also duplicates "native functionality" on the iPad, but I guess we won't know until closer to the iPad launch.
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« Reply #284 on: February 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM »

All iphone apps will work on the iPad as long as the features being used are present in the hardware (anything using the camera, for instance, ain't gonna work).

You can either run the apps at their iPhone size or scale it up to double.  The text is likely vector and not bitmap, so scaling should not be an issue.
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« Reply #285 on: February 01, 2010, 06:43:59 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on February 01, 2010, 06:07:26 PM

Personally, I don't think Amazon is doing anything "bad" in the ethical sense here.   Business is business and they would be dumb not to use their market share to negotiate however they like.  However, if their business plan for the Kindle really did rely on them being the only player in town, well, it's probably going to have to change significantly now. 

It'll definitely be interesting to see how they fight back. It may be that the fight has to be taken more to the hardware arena. I've already seen a splash ad on their front page touting the kindle as having no contracts and no wireless fees. This would seem to be taking potshots directly at the iPad (in completely disingenuous fashion, mind you, but that's a different story). I think perhaps the best approach for Amazon would be to focus on making the Kindle a hands-down vastly superior e-reader than the iPad could ever hope to be. That shouldn't be that hard to do, given that the iPad is trying to be good at so many things. Let Apple have the "and it's an e-reader too" space and make the Kindle the best e-reader by an order of magnitude (with screen technology & battery life in particular).
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« Reply #286 on: February 01, 2010, 06:46:03 PM »

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM

All iphone apps will work on the iPad as long as the features being used are present in the hardware (anything using the camera, for instance, ain't gonna work).

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them retroactively disallow the Kindle app to function on the ipad.  They had no grounds to disallow it before since ibooks didn't exist when the Kindle app came up for approval.
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« Reply #287 on: February 01, 2010, 06:49:02 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on February 01, 2010, 06:46:03 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM

All iphone apps will work on the iPad as long as the features being used are present in the hardware (anything using the camera, for instance, ain't gonna work).

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them retroactively disallow the Kindle app to function on the ipad.  They had no grounds to disallow it before since ibooks didn't exist when the Kindle app came up for approval.

I guess the question would be whether they can make a distinction in the App Store that it works on one platform and not the other.
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« Reply #288 on: February 01, 2010, 07:07:21 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on February 01, 2010, 06:07:26 PM

I believe the general idea behind loss leaders is that you'll take a small loss on one product to get consumers in the door in hopes they'll buy something profitable while they're shopping with you.  That doesn't seem to be Amazon's strategy with the Kindle.  It looks like they're willing to take a loss on both the Kindle and the e-book files for it, for a relatively long period of time, in order to lock in market dominance down the road.  That's "bad" for consumers if you think that they're going to up prices in some unreasonable manner once they've crushed their competition.  I think it's more likely that they just planned on forcing publishers to sell them ebooks at a much higher discount later on, which could be "bad" for the publishing industry in a more abstract way, but that's just a guess on my part.


When Best Buy offers a DVD as a loss leader, they do it so not only do you maybe buy something else in the store but also because you now associate Best Buy with "low prices" so when you are looking for another item on a different day, you go there instead of Target, Walmart, etc because you associate reasonable prices and Best Buy in your mind and Best Buy hopefully achieves market dominance in the process.  I don't see that as different than Amazon (especially since Amazon also hopes that you buy other non ebook items while you are on their site).  

It's kind of ironic because it seems very similar to me to what Apple did with iTunes years ago- they recognized that the public was more likely to buy music if it was priced at $9.99 instead of the $15+ that most CDs cost at the time.  
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« Reply #289 on: February 01, 2010, 07:07:32 PM »

Quote from: The Grue on February 01, 2010, 06:49:02 PM

Quote from: Chaz on February 01, 2010, 06:46:03 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM

All iphone apps will work on the iPad as long as the features being used are present in the hardware (anything using the camera, for instance, ain't gonna work).

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them retroactively disallow the Kindle app to function on the ipad.  They had no grounds to disallow it before since ibooks didn't exist when the Kindle app came up for approval.

I guess the question would be whether they can make a distinction in the App Store that it works on one platform and not the other.

Are they not planning on releasing an ibook app for the phone? That seems like an obvious move, in which case the Kindle app would be "redundant" on both platforms.
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« Reply #290 on: February 01, 2010, 07:10:01 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on February 01, 2010, 07:07:32 PM

Quote from: The Grue on February 01, 2010, 06:49:02 PM

Quote from: Chaz on February 01, 2010, 06:46:03 PM

Quote from: th'FOOL on February 01, 2010, 06:21:46 PM

All iphone apps will work on the iPad as long as the features being used are present in the hardware (anything using the camera, for instance, ain't gonna work).

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them retroactively disallow the Kindle app to function on the ipad.  They had no grounds to disallow it before since ibooks didn't exist when the Kindle app came up for approval.

I guess the question would be whether they can make a distinction in the App Store that it works on one platform and not the other.

Are they not planning on releasing an ibook app for the phone? That seems like an obvious move, in which case the Kindle app would be "redundant" on both platforms.

Imagine the hay they could make if they could tout compatibility with both iBooks AND Amazon....
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« Reply #291 on: February 01, 2010, 07:10:15 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on February 01, 2010, 07:07:32 PM


Are they not planning on releasing an ibook app for the phone? That seems like an obvious move, in which case the Kindle app would be "redundant" on both platforms.

Good point, although that means they would be pulling it from the store for people that already got it.  I am wondering if maybe they would have blocked it from being put up to begin with if they knew they had the iBook store coming for the phone.
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« Reply #292 on: February 01, 2010, 07:18:01 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on February 01, 2010, 05:38:15 PM

Seriously, why should an eBook cost $15? There is no overhead. No warehouse cost. And the authors don't make any more royalties off the books. If they kept the price reasonable they would sell a hell of a lot more ebooks. AND Amazon has already announced that they are bumping royalties on kindle to 70% provided the books are priced under $9.99. I've actually asked my publisher to lower the price on my new book for Kindle. If I had my way it would sell for $2.99 but it looks like $4.99 will have to do. BTW. eBooks sell 6 copies for every 10 paper copies on Amazon.

This is slightly OT, but if you think longer term, doesn't the whole idea of "ebooks" make "publishers" completely irrelevant?  At some point won't the price of a new "book" simply be set by whatever the market/readers are willing to bear or whatever the author feels like charging?  Imagine this: you are an author, you "release" your new book electronically, say for argument as an iPad "app" or through iBooks exclusively, so there is no other publisher side middleman, so you get 70% (or whatever it is) of all the profits.  Technically is there anything stopping any budding writer from doing that right now (aside from Apple approval) and setting the price of their book to whatever they want or think is fair?

I'm not really trying to make any partiuclar point and I am kind of confusing myself to be honest.  I just think it's an interesting topic.  If you believe that printed media is slowly on its way out (maybe 10 years, 20 years? I don't know), it really starts to re-define the entire "book" industry, doesn't it?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 07:22:14 PM by rittchard » Logged
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« Reply #293 on: February 01, 2010, 07:23:37 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 01, 2010, 07:18:01 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 01, 2010, 05:38:15 PM

Seriously, why should an eBook cost $15? There is no overhead. No warehouse cost. And the authors don't make any more royalties off the books. If they kept the price reasonable they would sell a hell of a lot more ebooks. AND Amazon has already announced that they are bumping royalties on kindle to 70% provided the books are priced under $9.99. I've actually asked my publisher to lower the price on my new book for Kindle. If I had my way it would sell for $2.99 but it looks like $4.99 will have to do. BTW. eBooks sell 6 copies for every 10 paper copies on Amazon.

This is slightly OT, but if you think longer term, doesn't the whole idea of "ebooks" make "publishers" completely irrelevant?  At some point won't the price of a new "book" simply be set by whatever the market/readers are willing to bear?  Imagine this: you are an author, you "release" your new book electronically, say for argument as an iPad "app" or through iBooks exclusively, so there is no other publisher side middleman, so you get 70% (or whatever it is) of all the profits.  Technically is there anything stopping any budding writer from doing that right now (aside from Apple approval) and setting the price of their book to whatever they want or think is fair?

I'm not really trying to make any partiuclar point and I am kind of confusing myself to be honest.  I just think it's an interesting topic.  If you believe that printed media is slowly on its way out (maybe 10 years, 20 years? I don't know), it really starts to re-define the entire "book" industry, doesn't it?

Most authors interviews I've read indicate that a publisher support is invaluable, especially in terms editing, copy editing, and promotion. 
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« Reply #294 on: February 01, 2010, 07:28:04 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 07:23:37 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 01, 2010, 07:18:01 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 01, 2010, 05:38:15 PM

Seriously, why should an eBook cost $15? There is no overhead. No warehouse cost. And the authors don't make any more royalties off the books. If they kept the price reasonable they would sell a hell of a lot more ebooks. AND Amazon has already announced that they are bumping royalties on kindle to 70% provided the books are priced under $9.99. I've actually asked my publisher to lower the price on my new book for Kindle. If I had my way it would sell for $2.99 but it looks like $4.99 will have to do. BTW. eBooks sell 6 copies for every 10 paper copies on Amazon.

This is slightly OT, but if you think longer term, doesn't the whole idea of "ebooks" make "publishers" completely irrelevant?  At some point won't the price of a new "book" simply be set by whatever the market/readers are willing to bear?  Imagine this: you are an author, you "release" your new book electronically, say for argument as an iPad "app" or through iBooks exclusively, so there is no other publisher side middleman, so you get 70% (or whatever it is) of all the profits.  Technically is there anything stopping any budding writer from doing that right now (aside from Apple approval) and setting the price of their book to whatever they want or think is fair?

I'm not really trying to make any partiuclar point and I am kind of confusing myself to be honest.  I just think it's an interesting topic.  If you believe that printed media is slowly on its way out (maybe 10 years, 20 years? I don't know), it really starts to re-define the entire "book" industry, doesn't it?

Most authors interviews I've read indicate that a publisher support is invaluable, especially in terms editing, copy editing, and promotion.  

Well they pretty much have to say that right now, don't they?  Without a publisher they have no means to... publish or get their material out there.  But things are changing really fast, and I'm sure it's scary for people used to doing things the traditional way.  

The fact is, though, even right at this moment, I could write a novel, have a friend edit it (or not), and then build it into an iPhone "app" and promote it through the web however I wanted to, sell my novel for $0.99 (or whatever) on the App store and have access to 75 million potential customers.  

Thinking out loud now: from an established author's POV, they could likely reap a great deal more profit with no middle man.  Just imagine if JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer decided to release their next Harry Potter or Twilight sequel this way.  They could set the price to whatever they felt like, say $9.99 and you know everyone and their grandma and tween niece would buy it, and they get all the profit.  Do they really need a publisher to promote them?
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 07:31:48 PM by rittchard » Logged
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« Reply #295 on: February 01, 2010, 08:01:10 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 07:07:21 PM

When Best Buy offers a DVD as a loss leader, they do it so not only do you maybe buy something else in the store but also because you now associate Best Buy with "low prices" so when you are looking for another item on a different day, you go there instead of Target, Walmart, etc because you associate reasonable prices and Best Buy in your mind and Best Buy hopefully achieves market dominance in the process.  I don't see that as different than Amazon (especially since Amazon also hopes that you buy other non ebook items while you are on their site).  

Right, but Best Buy isn't selling a DVD player that only works on DVDs you purchase there.   If Best Buy was trying to achieve market dominance by selling such a DVD player, I imagine they'd be going through the same sort of negotiations Amazon is right now.

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 07:07:21 PM

It's kind of ironic because it seems very similar to me to what Apple did with iTunes years ago- they recognized that the public was more likely to buy music if it was priced at $9.99 instead of the $15+ that most CDs cost at the time.  

Yup.  Definitely ironic, but perhaps not surprising, to see Jobs completely contradict himself on something like this.

Quote from: rittchard
Well they pretty much have to say that right now, don't they?  Without a publisher they have no means to... publish or get their material out there.  But things are changing really fast, and I'm sure it's scary for people used to doing things the traditional way.  

The fact is, though, even right at this moment, I could write a novel, have a friend edit it (or not), and then build it into an iPhone "app" and promote it through the web however I wanted to, sell my novel for $0.99 (or whatever) on the App store and have access to 75 million potential customers.  

Definitely possible.  And if you make enough money doing it, don't be surprised if some publishing company offers you skads of money for your next book.

Quote from: rittchard
Thinking out loud now: from an established author's POV, they could likely reap a great deal more profit with no middle man.  Just imagine if JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer decided to release their next Harry Potter or Twilight sequel this way.  They could set the price to whatever they felt like, say $9.99 and you know everyone and their grandma and tween niece would buy it, and they get all the profit.  Do they really need a publisher to promote them?

That's why most publishing contracts have a "right of first refusal" clause.  Your current publisher gets first dibs on your next book, essentially.    Or they sign you up for more than one book at a time.

Big enough authors (or powerful enough lit agents) can usually do whatever they want, though.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2010, 08:03:03 PM by kadnod » Logged

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« Reply #296 on: February 01, 2010, 08:08:18 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 01, 2010, 07:28:04 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 07:23:37 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 01, 2010, 07:18:01 PM

Quote from: Crusis on February 01, 2010, 05:38:15 PM

Seriously, why should an eBook cost $15? There is no overhead. No warehouse cost. And the authors don't make any more royalties off the books. If they kept the price reasonable they would sell a hell of a lot more ebooks. AND Amazon has already announced that they are bumping royalties on kindle to 70% provided the books are priced under $9.99. I've actually asked my publisher to lower the price on my new book for Kindle. If I had my way it would sell for $2.99 but it looks like $4.99 will have to do. BTW. eBooks sell 6 copies for every 10 paper copies on Amazon.

This is slightly OT, but if you think longer term, doesn't the whole idea of "ebooks" make "publishers" completely irrelevant?  At some point won't the price of a new "book" simply be set by whatever the market/readers are willing to bear?  Imagine this: you are an author, you "release" your new book electronically, say for argument as an iPad "app" or through iBooks exclusively, so there is no other publisher side middleman, so you get 70% (or whatever it is) of all the profits.  Technically is there anything stopping any budding writer from doing that right now (aside from Apple approval) and setting the price of their book to whatever they want or think is fair?

I'm not really trying to make any partiuclar point and I am kind of confusing myself to be honest.  I just think it's an interesting topic.  If you believe that printed media is slowly on its way out (maybe 10 years, 20 years? I don't know), it really starts to re-define the entire "book" industry, doesn't it?

Most authors interviews I've read indicate that a publisher support is invaluable, especially in terms editing, copy editing, and promotion.  

Well they pretty much have to say that right now, don't they?  Without a publisher they have no means to... publish or get their material out there.  But things are changing really fast, and I'm sure it's scary for people used to doing things the traditional way.  

The fact is, though, even right at this moment, I could write a novel, have a friend edit it (or not), and then build it into an iPhone "app" and promote it through the web however I wanted to, sell my novel for $0.99 (or whatever) on the App store and have access to 75 million potential customers.  

Thinking out loud now: from an established author's POV, they could likely reap a great deal more profit with no middle man.  Just imagine if JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer decided to release their next Harry Potter or Twilight sequel this way.  They could set the price to whatever they felt like, say $9.99 and you know everyone and their grandma and tween niece would buy it, and they get all the profit.  Do they really need a publisher to promote them?

While I generally think you're on target about publishers potentially starting to get squeezed out...I wouldn't discount the value of a good editor. Lord only knows how much crap I've read that could've used from someone with some real copy editing skills cleaning up their work.
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« Reply #297 on: February 01, 2010, 08:20:04 PM »

Quote from: kadnod on February 01, 2010, 08:01:10 PM

Right, but Best Buy isn't selling a DVD player that only works on DVDs you purchase there.   If Best Buy was trying to achieve market dominance by selling such a DVD player, I imagine they'd be going through the same sort of negotiations Amazon is right now.

Is this a DRM issue though?  Apple also uses DRM that bind the book to a specific device manufacturer and I think the Nook does as well (though I believe in that case there is movement to remove that restriction).  From the discussions about this issue I don't get the impression that DRM was the issue so much as the price of the books.  While I understand that a lot of people don't like it when stores with large pockets use that leverage to kick others out of the market, I have a hard time seeing what Amazon is doing being much different than what pretty much every large company with lots of money does.  
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« Reply #298 on: February 01, 2010, 08:23:18 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 01, 2010, 07:28:04 PM

Well they pretty much have to say that right now, don't they?  Without a publisher they have no means to... publish or get their material out there.  But things are changing really fast, and I'm sure it's scary for people used to doing things the traditional way. 

A good editor can make a substantial improvement to the book.  Most people are not their own best editors and you can't necessarily rely on friends or family to do a good job.

Quote
Thinking out loud now: from an established author's POV, they could likely reap a great deal more profit with no middle man.  Just imagine if JK Rowling or Stephanie Meyer decided to release their next Harry Potter or Twilight sequel this way.  They could set the price to whatever they felt like, say $9.99 and you know everyone and their grandma and tween niece would buy it, and they get all the profit.  Do they really need a publisher to promote them?

This is probably true but a common criticism on many mega-authors who seemingly lose their touch after becoming enormously successful is that they have become so powerful that no one dares to edit them anymore. 
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« Reply #299 on: February 01, 2010, 08:32:02 PM »

Quote from: Brendan on February 01, 2010, 05:28:36 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:27:12 PM

What to watch for is if there will be a Kindle app on the iPad. A Kindle app on the iPad would mean that a person could price compare between Apple and Amazon. It seems unlikely that Apple would block it, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it arrives.

Google Voice is still DOA on the iPhone; I don't see why they wouldn't block the Kindle app.

Google Voice is available through the iPhone Safari browser now as a web app.
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« Reply #300 on: February 01, 2010, 08:33:29 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2010, 08:32:02 PM

Quote from: Brendan on February 01, 2010, 05:28:36 PM

Quote from: Teggy on February 01, 2010, 05:27:12 PM

What to watch for is if there will be a Kindle app on the iPad. A Kindle app on the iPad would mean that a person could price compare between Apple and Amazon. It seems unlikely that Apple would block it, but it will be interesting to see what happens when it arrives.

Google Voice is still DOA on the iPhone; I don't see why they wouldn't block the Kindle app.

Google Voice is available through the iPhone Safari browser now as a web app.

See above.
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« Reply #301 on: February 01, 2010, 08:35:24 PM »

I think I missed a page change, then.
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« Reply #302 on: February 01, 2010, 08:38:45 PM »

I know this is swaying way off topic but the numerous points about self-publishing are near and dear to me - open a new thread on it anyone? Here here a great blog post by Jon Konrath talking about how much money he makes self published versus how much he makes with a publisher.

Go iPad! Kindle support or not I still want one.  Tongue
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« Reply #303 on: February 01, 2010, 08:54:10 PM »

You know, in all this talk about worrying about whether or not your library would reside only with iPad or Kindle or both, I just really sat down and thought about it and I guess I just don't care.  I have gone back and reread a handful of books and I only did that as a teenager when I didn't have the income to just go get a new book.  So, for me, books are pretty much disposable and if the Kindle died because of Apple or vice versa, I guess I really don't care other than I would rather read my books on a device like the Kindle with the e-ink.

In fact, that was the real reason I was attracted to these devices...the fact that I can buy a book, read it once, and not either clutter my house with books I never go back to or just throw away part of a tree.
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« Reply #304 on: February 01, 2010, 09:19:58 PM »

I basically feel the same way as Grue.  It's not that I want my old eBooks to disappear, it's just that it wouldn't be the end of the world for me. frankly if they did disappear it would take me a long time to notice.  I know a lot of people feel differently though. 
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« Reply #305 on: February 01, 2010, 09:26:25 PM »

I actually wish there was a complete delete option for Kindle so books I finished reading wouldn't go in some Archive, but would be destroyed forever. I hate how my Archive consists both of read books and new books that I haven't yet downloaded to my Kindle. It is extremely rare that I will re-read a book - I have far too many new books to read to waste time re-reading old ones.
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« Reply #306 on: February 01, 2010, 09:36:37 PM »

Here are some good thoughts about the Amazon / Macmillan debacle from the past few days:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/01/all-the-many-ways-amazon-so-very-failed-the-weekend/

Quote
Leaving aside the moral, philosophical, cultural and financial implications of this weekendís Amazon/Macmillan slapfight and What It All Means for book readers and the future of the publishing industry, in one very real sense the whole thing was an exercise in public communications, a process by which two very large companies made a case for themselves in the public arena. And in this respect, we can say this much without qualification: oh, sweet Jesus, did Amazon ever hump the bunk.

How did it do so? Iím glad you asked! Let us count the ways.

1. The Stealth Delisting
....
2. Amazon Lost the Authors
....
3. Amazon Lost the Authorís Fans
....
4. Amazon Let Macmillan Strike First in the Press Release War
....
5. Amazon Flubbed Its Own Response
....
6. Amazon Destroyed Its Own Consumer Experience, Without Explanation, For Several Days
....
7. Because Of the Idiotic Events of This Weekend, People Will Just Want an iPad Even More
....

There's a lot of explanation in the post. I don't think #7 belonged in there, but the other points are pretty good.
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« Reply #307 on: February 01, 2010, 10:53:12 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on February 01, 2010, 08:20:04 PM

Is this a DRM issue though?  Apple also uses DRM that bind the book to a specific device manufacturer and I think the Nook does as well (though I believe in that case there is movement to remove that restriction).  From the discussions about this issue I don't get the impression that DRM was the issue so much as the price of the books.  While I understand that a lot of people don't like it when stores with large pockets use that leverage to kick others out of the market, I have a hard time seeing what Amazon is doing being much different than what pretty much every large company with lots of money does.  

Personally, I think Amazon should throw its weight around however it wants.  It's a business, not a library.   Publishers should have done more to help keep indie book stores around if they didn't want Amazon (and B&N) to become the dominant forces they are. 

re:DRM, you're right that's not the issue (well, not the issue behind the publisher re-negotiations, anyhow.) From the outside looking in, Amazon's current e-book business model only works if they kill off their competitors by purposefully "undervaluing" ebooks, then demanding higher discounts from publishers once the price-war is over.  I think that's a bit different from the typical loss-leader scenario, where you're usually trying to get an advantage over your competitors, not your suppliers.  Is it a particularly unethical way of doing business?  I don't think so.   But I can see why some publishers find Apple's terms preferable. 

I feel like I'm doing a bad job of talking about where all the sturm-and-drang is coming from on this, partially because I don't agree with most of it.  (I still think Google Books is going to be the game changer, here.)   Publishers Weekly has a couple of good articles up on this, with a lot of "boo-Amazon, yay Macmillan" type quotes.  They're probably better equipped to explain this nonsense than I.
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« Reply #308 on: February 05, 2010, 08:47:54 AM »

I randomly had a dream about the iPad last night, now I want one. I don't own anything else from Apple aside from an iPod. My main concern would be how well the keyboard works, gotta be able to make forum posts and so on. Then again they do have an external keyboard accessory for it...

Yeah ima buy this thing.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 11:43:30 AM by Ridah » Logged

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« Reply #309 on: February 05, 2010, 02:41:58 PM »

Its incredible the amount of buzz Apple has generated for this.  Its amazing to me that Amazon (and a few other companies) are having to compete against a product that isn't even available for sale yet.  I can't wait to get mine, but at the same time it bothers me that there a lot of hype on this and that its affecting me.  I never considered myself an Apple "fanboi", but even though I work in a mostly "Microsoft" environment that I'm slowly becoming more and more Apple (macbooks, iphone, ipods, and future ipad owner).
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« Reply #310 on: February 05, 2010, 07:19:47 PM »

Quote from: Zero on February 05, 2010, 02:41:58 PM

Its incredible the amount of buzz Apple has generated for this.  Its amazing to me that Amazon (and a few other companies) are having to compete against a product that isn't even available for sale yet.  I can't wait to get mine, but at the same time it bothers me that there a lot of hype on this and that its affecting me.  I never considered myself an Apple "fanboi", but even though I work in a mostly "Microsoft" environment that I'm slowly becoming more and more Apple (macbooks, iphone, ipods, and future ipad owner).

Yeah Apple definitely has a knack for generating hype.  Archos released their tablet last year (similar size, form factor, and price) and I think about 25 people knew about it   icon_lol  They can even generate hype by NOT saying anything (publically) which gets fans even more worked up.  I read an article a while ago about the tactics they use to leak info (but only the info they want to leak) slowly over time to get people interested early.

I'm curious what you mean by being bothered by the hype affecting you.  Are you bothered that you are slowly being converted by the hype to one of the Apple Borg Collective (ABC) or are you bothered by the negativity that the hype seems to draw?

Some of the negative backlash has been kind of annoying (though fairly predictable at this point) but I have to say the one thing that Apple did that I can see might be very annoying was to call its device "magical."  I mean it's one thing for Steve Jobs to keep repeating "isn't it cool?  or isn't that awesome?" but to say your device feels magical - well hopefully it's got the chops to live up to that statement.

Last thought, wondering if they'll have a cool ad for the Superbowl.
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« Reply #311 on: February 05, 2010, 07:29:48 PM »

Quote from: Zero on February 05, 2010, 02:41:58 PM

Its amazing to me that Amazon (and a few other companies) are having to compete against a product that isn't even available for sale yet.

And doing so just revs the hype machine further. It'll be interesting to see in this economy how many people are willing to open their wallets day 1.
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« Reply #312 on: February 06, 2010, 05:32:07 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on February 05, 2010, 07:19:47 PM

I'm curious what you mean by being bothered by the hype affecting you.  Are you bothered that you are slowly being converted by the hype to one of the Apple Borg Collective (ABC) or are you bothered by the negativity that the hype seems to draw?

Its bothering me that I thought it was a great device, and would fit into my world.  As I talked to co-workers about getting the device I find myself defending it against all the "negative" of what it isn't.  And it some sense it got me talking about it more, and supporting it, even though I don't have the damn thing.  That's what I meant by the hype bothering me.  That the hype is now coming from me and that I'm doing it to fight back all the negativity.  I was never in the ABC, but have converted to Macs in 2004 for my own personal computing.  But work is still pretty much all Microsoft all the time (MS SQL Server, MS Sharepoint, etc etc) - so its interesting that for my own personal work, I use a Mac.  Overall, I found that OSX has been the most stable operating system from what I've used and so why not use what works.  I don't want to fix things at home, I get enough of that at work smile
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« Reply #313 on: February 06, 2010, 08:41:22 PM »

Well, this blog isn't exactly the most unbiased source of info and I personally disagree with most of what he said.  First of all, it was Macmillan that changed the status quo, not for the benefits of authors, but out of fear of the ebook market.  Amazon is the one that's taking the loss on the ebook price difference, not the authors.  

Higher prices for ebooks slows the ebook market -- that's what Macmillan wants.  Let's face it, the whole ebook market place is a scary thing for publishers -- it eliminates a major service they provide for authors (printing and distributing books).  They're trying to slow it down as much as possible.  Again, they have the right to do so -- but for the vast majority of consumers, Amazon was the good guy in this fight (obviously, they were fighting for their own interest but they happened to line up with the consumers this time).  It's hard to see how Macmillan's victory was good for anyone but the publishing industry and perhaps authors who have been scared by their publishers to fear the ebook market.  

As far as Amazon competing with the Ipad -- it was MacMillan who used the iPad leverage to negotiate a new contract.  Amazon didn't have much of a say in the matter.  I still see the Ipad as being a positive for ebooks in the long run.  Amazon's pricing model was never going to last forever -- and in the end the more people that buy ebooks the better it is for anyone with an ereader.


Quote from: Clay on February 01, 2010, 09:36:37 PM

Here are some good thoughts about the Amazon / Macmillan debacle from the past few days:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/02/01/all-the-many-ways-amazon-so-very-failed-the-weekend/

Quote
Leaving aside the moral, philosophical, cultural and financial implications of this weekendís Amazon/Macmillan slapfight and What It All Means for book readers and the future of the publishing industry, in one very real sense the whole thing was an exercise in public communications, a process by which two very large companies made a case for themselves in the public arena. And in this respect, we can say this much without qualification: oh, sweet Jesus, did Amazon ever hump the bunk.

How did it do so? Iím glad you asked! Let us count the ways.

1. The Stealth Delisting
....
2. Amazon Lost the Authors
....
3. Amazon Lost the Authorís Fans
....
4. Amazon Let Macmillan Strike First in the Press Release War
....
5. Amazon Flubbed Its Own Response
....
6. Amazon Destroyed Its Own Consumer Experience, Without Explanation, For Several Days
....
7. Because Of the Idiotic Events of This Weekend, People Will Just Want an iPad Even More
....

There's a lot of explanation in the post. I don't think #7 belonged in there, but the other points are pretty good.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 08:49:00 PM by iloveplywood » Logged
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« Reply #314 on: February 06, 2010, 09:41:36 PM »

Quote from: Zero on February 06, 2010, 05:32:07 PM

Quote from: rittchard on February 05, 2010, 07:19:47 PM

I'm curious what you mean by being bothered by the hype affecting you.  Are you bothered that you are slowly being converted by the hype to one of the Apple Borg Collective (ABC) or are you bothered by the negativity that the hype seems to draw?

Its bothering me that I thought it was a great device, and would fit into my world.  As I talked to co-workers about getting the device I find myself defending it against all the "negative" of what it isn't.  And it some sense it got me talking about it more, and supporting it, even though I don't have the damn thing.  That's what I meant by the hype bothering me.  That the hype is now coming from me and that I'm doing it to fight back all the negativity. 

Hehe, I know how you feel, that's pretty much where I am these days as well.  But I guess I'm more used to it since I went through the same cycle with the iPhone.  I think Apple owes me about 3 or 4 sales (at least) from all my pitches and demoing of the iPhone at work.  I don't think I'll be doing the same with the iPad, as I don't intend to bring it to work regularly at first.  Once they start becoming more popular (2nd or 3rd gen), or maybe if I bought a second one, maybe I'll start using it regularly at work.  I kind of don't want all my personal fun stuff (photos, games, music, etc) mixing with work so much; I almost think it would make sense for me to have a separate unit specifically for work.
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« Reply #315 on: March 05, 2010, 05:47:44 PM »

Release date announced this morning, available April 3rd with pre-orders starting on the 12th of March

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2010/03/05ipad.html
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« Reply #316 on: March 05, 2010, 06:58:58 PM »

Looking forward to the MLB App on this.
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« Reply #317 on: March 05, 2010, 07:01:30 PM »

I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one
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« Reply #318 on: March 05, 2010, 07:03:41 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 05, 2010, 07:01:30 PM

I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one

No one needs one.
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« Reply #319 on: March 05, 2010, 07:13:18 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on March 05, 2010, 07:01:30 PM

I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one I don't need one

You started too early now you have to keep that up for at least 7 more days.
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