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Author Topic: The 201X Health Improvement Thread  (Read 17388 times)
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PeteRock
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« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2012, 04:34:13 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 04:27:01 PM

I'm not trying to sound argumentative or anything, just trying to get across that some of these issues are things that I'm cognizant of and have already incorporated into past efforts as well as thinking about currently.

Not trying to be overly critical either.  Any conscious steps toward better health are better than none.  As long as you're aware of where you want to be and how you hope to get there, go for it. 

I can't be overly critical of the sunflower seeds anyway, as I have been known to grab a few handfuls during softball.   ninja

Just not in the summer as it's just too effing hot to stuff my mouth with something salty.  This time of year though? Hell yes.
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« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2012, 04:38:18 PM »

Okay. I was more worried about a possible defensive tone rather than feeling that way.

And I really appreciate the help and motivation. Despite still being sore from Monday, I plan on hitting the gym this evening to see how much of that I can push through.
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« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2012, 04:39:47 PM »

Isgrimnur, you need to eat more real food. Ditch the pop tarts and cook some eggs for breakfast. Oatmeal is also good, but not the crap that comes in flavored bags. My current breakfast is a bowl of old fashioned oatmeal with one egg white, 1 tbsp of peanut butter and a 1/3rd scoop of chocolate whey protein powder. NOM NOM NOM! Other days I'll have a veggie omelet.

It's not hard to broil some chicken. Like Pete said, cook it on a Sunday night and eat it throughout the week.

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« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2012, 04:47:31 PM »

I'm not getting up early to make breakfast. I've tried it, and I don't have the ability to sacrifice 20 minutes of sleep in the morning to cook breakfast.

I may try precooking some breakfast food again, but my last attempt was flavorless. It was such a waste of good biscuits, eggs, and bacon.
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« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2012, 05:53:21 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 04:47:31 PM

I'm not getting up early to make breakfast. I've tried it, and I don't have the ability to sacrifice 20 minutes of sleep in the morning to cook breakfast.

I may try precooking some breakfast food again, but my last attempt was flavorless. It was such a waste of good biscuits, eggs, and bacon.

I'm with you on breakfast.  I already get up at 5AM, I'm not getting up any earlier to fix a cooked breakfast.  So I'll have the Instant Oatmeal (which is better than nothing) or certain whole grain cereals that I know will fill me up until lunchtime.  That's the most I can manage. 
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« Reply #45 on: February 01, 2012, 06:10:16 PM »

Dude.  Don't drink empty calories!  When you say you are trying to lose weight and I see you saying you are drinking soda it's a major face palm.  All those refined sugar calories are not helping you do SHIT.   Make your 1600 calories 1600 QUALITY calories!  If you want to drink empty calories, at least make them booze...  does soda help you feel satisfied and full?  Of course not.  Sorry if I'm coming off as a dick in this thread, but I don't understand what you are doing.  You say you want one thing, but you are undermining yourself.
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« Reply #46 on: February 01, 2012, 06:13:39 PM »

If we're all for sustainable, then I need to wean down the soda consumption.  I had two yesterday down from previous days where four was the norm.

If you want me to fail, then by all means I'll jump whole hog into the macrobiotic, heavy veggie diet.  And you'll see me at Gatti's by next weekend.
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« Reply #47 on: February 01, 2012, 06:21:53 PM »

For the 'I don't want to get up a bit earlier' crowd, it literally takes me less than 10 minutes to make a bowl of 'slow' oatmeal in the morning.  Not that you need to eat oatmeal... that's just not a major concern for me regarding breakfast (extra time). You can prepare a banana in literally seconds.  There's 130 - 180 great calories!  Pop Tarts are a non-food.  Don't eat it.

Pete is 100% right - you should eat an actual lunch.

Saw your reply, and here is mine:

There is a pattern here:
You: I want to be healthier and lose weight.
People: Here is some really good advice.
You: I know what I'm doing.
Scale: +1

I KNOW that sounds harsh, but it's a public forum where you are asking for the feedback, and the feedback doesn't seem to be getting through...  If you want to change, you have to be hard on yourself about what you are really doing.

'I am not drinking any more soda starting this minute' IS sustainable.  'I need to ease into it' is an excuse to not make the change.
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« Reply #48 on: February 01, 2012, 06:25:49 PM »

And nobody is recommending some radical diet in here.  They are saying eat real food.  You KNOW that soda and pop tarts aren't food.  The excuses are what will result in failure, not the change if you are committed to it.

And hey, to not just rail on you, I KNOW how hard it is to make the change, to make the commitment.  All I can say is that it is so, so worth it.  It is the absolute best thing you can ever do for yourself.
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« Reply #49 on: February 01, 2012, 06:28:58 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 01, 2012, 06:21:53 PM

For the 'I don't want to get up a bit earlier' crowd, it literally takes me less than 10 minutes to make a bowl of 'slow' oatmeal in the morning.  Not that you need to eat oatmeal... that's just not a major concern for me regarding breakfast (extra time). You can prepare a banana in literally seconds.  There's 130 - 180 great calories!  Pop Tarts are a non-food.  Don't eat it.

I've also found that eating breakfast and a decent lunch make my workouts FAR more productive as your body needs fuel to exercise.  If you're only living on sunflower seeds and pop tarts before your workout you'll inevitably struggle and inadvertently undermine your motivation to stick with a program.  There is some research on lifting while fasted to maximize fat metabolism, but at your level you're better off fueling your system before exercising.  My fasted deadlift is around 185.  My fueled DL hit 225 this week and will probably easily improve as I still think I could have gone heavier.  It really does make a difference.

Also, breakfast doesn't need to take much time.  I can put together 3 fried eggs over-easy in olive oil (healthy fat) with whole grain toast in less than 10 minutes.  The cholesterol argument of yolks vs. whites is also blown a bit out of proportion so don't worry about struggling to separate the two.  If that is even too much work, then consider something like this:  Toaster w/egg poacher

You could make breakfast all at once in mere minutes and get healthy carbs, protein, and fiber.
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« Reply #50 on: February 01, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »

Yes, but I am easing into it. And again, everyone has to find their own way to make it work. I've stated that I'll be looking into Pop Tart replacement methods that work for me. I've noted that I'm reducing my soda consumption. I know what these things do from a calorie perspective and am taking steps to address them.  But I enjoy the occasional soda, so there's never going to be a day where I drop them completely. I long ago replaced fountain drinks with unsweetened ice tea when I eat out. I rarely order fries. And as the graph shows, I've had some past success.  I didn't lose 50+ pounds by accident.

Your path is not for me. I could not survive doing it your way, and it would lead to a quicker failure than my methods and attempts will. And anyone that tries to tell you that there's only one way to do it is full of themselves.

I appreciate, support, and advice. I'm willing to consider different options and listen to alternative viewpoints. I am not willing to listen to being told that my way is wrong or inferior.
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« Reply #51 on: February 01, 2012, 06:39:41 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 01, 2012, 06:25:49 PM

And nobody is recommending some radical diet in here.  They are saying eat real food.  You KNOW that soda and pop tarts aren't food.  The excuses are what will result in failure, not the change if you are committed to it.

And hey, to not just rail on you, I KNOW how hard it is to make the change, to make the commitment.  All I can say is that it is so, so worth it.  It is the absolute best thing you can ever do for yourself.

I appreciate that you want me to succeed, but your tone comes across more as drill instructor than supportive friend.  That's mainly what I have an issue with. 

Yes, the Pop Tarts and soda are crap.  I have a box of instant oatmeal sitting next to them.  Even that choice is better.  And I wouldn't miss the Pop Tarts.  The soda is always going to be there in some capacity.  But I can and have made the choice to minimize its impact.

Quote from: PeteRock on February 01, 2012, 06:28:58 PM

I've also found that eating breakfast and a decent lunch make my workouts FAR more productive as your body needs fuel to exercise.  If you're only living on sunflower seeds and pop tarts before your workout you'll inevitably struggle and inadvertently undermine your motivation to stick with a program.  There is some research on lifting while fasted to maximize fat metabolism, but at your level you're better off fueling your system before exercising.  My fasted deadlift is around 185.  My fueled DL hit 225 this week and will probably easily improve as I still think I could have gone heavier.  It really does make a difference.

My workout schedule is post dinner, so I've got the majority of my food in me at that point.  I'm not headed to the gym on under 1,200 calories.  I handle dinner immediately after work, so usually before 6 with the gym somewhere around 7-8.
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« Reply #52 on: February 01, 2012, 07:02:52 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 01, 2012, 06:21:53 PM

For the 'I don't want to get up a bit earlier' crowd, it literally takes me less than 10 minutes to make a bowl of 'slow' oatmeal in the morning.  

Then it takes 20 minutes of struggling to get that nasty shit down.   Tongue

I despise plain oatmeal and if I doctor the stuff up to make it edible then I'll consume fewer calories just eating the stuff from the packets (and that's cheaper too).

Quote from: Isgrimnur
Yes, but I am easing into it. And again, everyone has to find their own way to make it work. I've stated that I'll be looking into Pop Tart replacement methods that work for me.

Idea - try a Kashi bar.  They're not too bad for a quick Pop-Tart replacement.
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« Reply #53 on: February 01, 2012, 07:07:17 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 06:31:21 PM

Yes, but I am easing into it.

For over a year?

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 06:31:21 PM

And anyone that tries to tell you that there's only one way to do it is full of themselves.

Nobody has said that.  There are, however, some basics that you seem to be denying.

At some point, whatever your method, you gotta commit to making a change.

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 06:31:21 PM

I appreciate, support, and advice. I'm willing to consider different options and listen to alternative viewpoints. I am not willing to listen to being told that my way is wrong or inferior.

But what if what you are doing is just setting yourself up for failure?  It's usually a lot easier for someone external to see where we are messing up.

I don't 'want you to succeed', I have no actual interest in a stranger succeeding or failing.  However, you are publicly saying you want to accomplish something, so you are by definition asking for comment on how you are going about it.

Look... the truth of the matter is on your graph for 2011.  I'm not saying you have to do exactly what any of us do... I'm saying what you are trying isn't working, and there are some key elements to ANY successful plan.  If you really want it, you have to commit to it.  You don't want my input, that's totally fine.  I can butt out.

Blackadar, I lurve oatmeal... but I don't eat it plain.  I add a bit of brown sugar and some peanut butter to mine.  I'm all about enjoying my food as well as getting good stuff out of it!  (You can also whip a scrambled egg into it right when it is done cooking, which adds some protein and is delicious and custardy.)  I think the non-instant stuff is less gloppy and a more palatable consistency than the instant stuff... but different strokes.  The fittest guy I know weighs 140, can run 5K in 19 minutes, and only eats instant oatmeal for breakfast, so go figure...
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« Reply #54 on: February 01, 2012, 07:11:22 PM »

2011 was a failure because I got away from what was working in 2010 and some illness poured on top of it, not because what I was doing was unsustainable. I checked out of the mental habits I had developed and now I'm trying to undo that damage.
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« Reply #55 on: February 01, 2012, 07:31:34 PM »

Quote from: kratz on February 01, 2012, 07:07:17 PM

The fittest guy I know weighs 140, can run 5K in 19 minutes, and only eats instant oatmeal for breakfast, so go figure...

I can drive a 5k that fast.   icon_biggrin

I ended last year running a 5k in 30:17, so it'd be nice to crack that 30 minute barrier this year.  But first I have to get back to where I was...
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« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM »

[edit - there was a copy/paste error, and the head of this message was decapitated and lost the connection to the posts above] Adding in bold:

Grim, in terms of diet and controlling your food intake, and trying to also work out are conflicting - exercise drives up hunger, and unless you're prepared for starvation - that's what we call it when we deny our bodies the energy it's demanding - then you won't make the headway you're looking for. As for me, I'll just keep on keeping on with my thing. Its sustainable, healthy, and I've never felt better in my life. I question the percentages on "dietary info" panels - the numbers are based on bad science, and I've done my homework.

I see things like egg whites and rice and chips etc and it frustrates me - I'm going to drop out of this thread. From my perspective, you're going down the same path that has you bouncing back - the idea that eating stuff that isn't good for you, "in moderation", "going to bed hungry" AKA starvation, is sustainable. When you go off that plan, when you give in to your hunger, those types of calories bring you right back down to the bottom of the hill you just climbed.

I just find that the world is now filled with diet-and-fitness-experts, and yet obesity is on the rise. The "common knowledge" doesn't ring of truth, and by divesting myself of those elements I have been able to achieve and sustain long-term weight loss and I *don't* go to bed hungry, nor to I glut myself. I obey my hunger, because I *should*.

All of those companies, whether they be "fitness centers", "heart-healthy" food products, etc, they have a vested interest in the business of perpetrating something that keeps their products flying off the shelf, regardless if they work or not.

Cholesterol, salt, and fat all have been demonized by the public at large, with "science" to back it up. Meanwhile, that science only puts forward hypothesis - it skips the step where you rigorously work to disprove it (aka TEST) to ensure you are actually right.

They don't send lab-rats home and report back online after six months. They control the environment to ensure the results have no mitigating factors. In this case, it would cost money to keep willing people in labs.
* Purge puts away soapbox

Grim, best of luck. I've made my point several times in other threads, and if you want my advice, by all means ask. I might chime in here when I hit a personal milestone, but the dietary / exercise discussion isn't one that holds water with me, and engaging in it without others bothering to even trying to digest the info.

According to a personal trainers scale, I just hit ~14% body fat, at 248. I think the scale is broken. biggrin
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« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2012, 09:09:17 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM

Random rant

That seems rather out of place, considering that you've provided no info in this thread for anyone else to digest. 

For example, what is your "thing"?
Why do egg whites frustrate you?
What's wrong with moderation?
Of what elements of generally accepted common knowledge did you divest to come to your (I guess) thing?
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« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2012, 09:32:06 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM

According to a personal trainers scale, I just hit ~14% body fat, at 248.

14% at 248?  Are you extremely muscular or tall?  That seems sort of fishy... 14% is really quite low.
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« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2012, 10:50:11 PM »

I've been going through some personal shit lately and it apparently has been effecting me beyond basic stress or aggravation as I've been having trouble sleeping, concentrating on things, my softball game has been plagued with uncharacteristic errors due to being distracted, and I've been stuck on a number of my lifts at perceived plateaus.

Today I decided to actively focus some of that energy into my toughest workout of the week and managed to push through a plateau on every single one of my lifts.

Barbell Squat:  Was stuck at 165lbs, reached 180lbs today.
Standing Dumbbell Shoulder Press:  Was stuck at 2 40-lb dumbbells, reached 50's today.
Upright Rows:  Was stuck at 90lbs, reached 100lbs today.
Barbell Shrugs:  Was stuck at 225lbs, reached 235lbs today.
Seated Calf Raises:  Was stuck at 100lbs, reached 135lbs today.
Also decided to add Romanian Deadlifts for hamstring work along with my usual stiff-legged deadlifts.  Holy hell are RDLs merciless.  Amazing and loathsome all at the same time. 

I always get the shakey-legs after my leg workouts when I drive my 5-speed home, and today the cars alongside me must have thought I was dancing with happy feet.  Pushing in the clutch almost caused my entire body to shake.   icon_lol

The hard part will be running the bags at softball tonight.  Probably won't be stretching any doubles into triples this time around.
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« Reply #60 on: February 01, 2012, 11:39:12 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM

Purge rant

Wow.  Not this again.
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« Reply #61 on: February 02, 2012, 12:15:45 AM »

The discussion in this thread has been very interesting, so kudos to everyone who's been posting.

Just to add my experience, as a part of my crossfit regimen, I've been on a modified paleo eating routine. I'm not going to call it a diet because that word seems to have so many negative connotations. Really, when it comes down to it, eating healthy involves minimizing the processed sugars and starches and maximizing protein, good fats, and good carbs. Especially for those of us lifting weights, protein intake is really important if you want to lift heavier and achieve those personal bests. Skipping meals or not eating enough at meals is just bad. It really messes with your metabolism and hinders the ability to perform. I used to be one of those people who skipped breakfast, which led to pigging out at lunch and feeling really tired as the day went on. To give me that burst of energy in the afternoon, I drank caffeinated soda. It was a never ending cycle. Anyhow, what really turned things around for me was to eat more protein, a lot less refined carbs (white rice, pasta, bread), more vegetables,specific types of fruit, and nuts (almonds mainly). I don't skip meals but I don't pig out at meal times, instead, eating a mid-morning and mid-afternoon snack. Many of us have busy schedules and stuff that doesn't always accommodate this kind of eating regimen, but it really comes down to mentally committing to it. Fight the tendency to not make the change. Pre-cooking several days to a week's worth of meals helps. It's really a question of planning. Also, changing your eating habits doesn't mean having to compromise taste and stuff you like to eat. I like to check out the recipies on The Foodie web site:

http://www.thefoodee.com/

I find the recipes there easy to follow, quick and really healthy. Cooking for yourself doesn't have to be a time consuming thing. It takes a little bit of planning and the commitment.

One other thing I do is designate one day a week as my "cheat" day. For me, that is Thursday at lunch when my co-workers and I go out somewhere and throw caution to the wind. Having a cheat meal occasionally is not going to hurt and you won't feel so deprived. Even on those cheat days, I still follow some of my eating rules. I try not to consume too much starch, because it makes me feel bloated later in the day, and I stay away from soda.

Eventually, whatever dietary changes are made, it becomes second nature over time. I always tell people to just plan out and try a program for two weeks. Be strict with it during that time, with the goal to see how you feel after those to weeks. If it's too hard, you can always stop, but more often than not, real change starts to happen and people seem to get that moment where the light bulb goes off and they "get it". From that point on, it's a lot less difficult.
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« Reply #62 on: February 02, 2012, 04:40:01 AM »

Quote from: kratz on February 01, 2012, 09:32:06 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM

According to a personal trainers scale, I just hit ~14% body fat, at 248.

14% at 248?  Are you extremely muscular or tall?  That seems sort of fishy... 14% is really quite low.

I thought it was hilarious... that would suggest I'd have no bodyfat at ~210. I'm 5'10" LOL.

I'm closer to 30% - I've got a decent muscular frame, but I doubt that I could get down below 175 without shedding muscle.
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« Reply #63 on: February 02, 2012, 05:03:18 AM »

Heh, ok.
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« Reply #64 on: February 02, 2012, 05:24:11 AM »

I've been back on hardcore low-carb for two and a half weeks or so. Been several years since I have done it, and over time my weight had steadily drifted upward. I've been suffering from severe chronic nasal congestion that has made breathing difficult at times. I have it under control after trying all kinds of wacky things, but I know that I can lose some weight, I can suspend cpap use for my sleep apnea, and the congestion should resolve.

So far so good. Not being able to eat bread and sugar can be a bit tough, especially at first, but I love to eat and suck at restraint/portion control, and as long as I'm careful about what I'm eating, I can eat as much as I like. Of course, eating dairy & meat isnt the cheapest way to eat. It is also hard to "grab a snack" or make something quick. Interestingly, I was on the phone with my mother the other day and discovered she had been back on it too for a couple of months. As a result, her cholesterol is the lowest it has been in decades.
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« Reply #65 on: February 02, 2012, 05:36:01 AM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 01, 2012, 09:09:17 PM

Quote from: Purge on February 01, 2012, 08:37:51 PM

Random rant

That seems rather out of place, considering that you've provided no info in this thread for anyone else to digest.  

For example, what is your "thing"?
Why do egg whites frustrate you?
What's wrong with moderation?
Of what elements of generally accepted common knowledge did you divest to come to your (I guess) thing?

To answer your questions :
My "thing" is to eat protein, fat, and control my carbs to those found in non-tuber vegetables (I also go extremely light on legumes). I don't count calories as a rule, though I might check occasionally to see what my body has me eat. I only drink water, tea, and coffee (which is rare) and I will use a combined protein shake like Lean Pro 8.

I am not frustrated with the egg whites per se, it is that the nutrient value of eggs isn't in the whites and while some may enjoy egg-white only, it's generally (and certainly in this discussion) a method of controlling fat and cholesterol intake.

Moderation is a fallback idea. If you ask someone about their diet, they'll say "I'm not on a diet". Once you get past the stigma of what the word diet has come to mean, you'll find that when people are faced with cognitive dissonance, they tend to cling to ambiguities as a "Safe" ground. Moderation is the head-nodding response. Oh yes, that makes sense. If we eat everything, but in moderation, then it's OK for us.

There first needs to be an active moderating, and you also need to understand the compounds and reactions your circulatory and digestive systems will undergo while ingesting the food. The GI (glycemic index) isn't a new thing, but understanding its impact on energy storage is something that is being ignored. Fat - saturated or not - isn't bad for you. Understanding how that advice came out is key to understanding why everything is low fat, and those calories have been replaced by sugars.

Wait, isn't diabetes on the rise? Here's a Canadian article from 2008: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=87752343-eb7e-4eab-b28d-a21678e02b51
We're halfway to 2016 in the prediction, and the answer is to eat more sugar.  A small potato is, to your bloodstream, the same as a quarter cup of sugar. http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/questionsandanswers/a/potatoglycemic.htm


As to the 20 min before full feeling? In my experience, I get full on my diet before I push my plate away. I eat my greens, I eat my fats from both plant (nuts), dairy, and meats.

I also don't work out to lose weight - I work out because I enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it to lose weight. Light physical activity may be good for your overall fitness- killing yourself at the gym isn't doing you any favors if you hate it though.
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« Reply #66 on: February 02, 2012, 01:32:01 PM »

Quote from: Purge on February 02, 2012, 05:36:01 AM

To answer your questions :
My "thing" is to eat protein, fat, and control my carbs to those found in non-tuber vegetables (I also go extremely light on legumes). I don't count calories as a rule, though I might check occasionally to see what my body has me eat. I only drink water, tea, and coffee (which is rare) and I will use a combined protein shake like Lean Pro 8.

I am not frustrated with the egg whites per se, it is that the nutrient value of eggs isn't in the whites and while some may enjoy egg-white only, it's generally (and certainly in this discussion) a method of controlling fat and cholesterol intake.

Moderation is a fallback idea. If you ask someone about their diet, they'll say "I'm not on a diet". Once you get past the stigma of what the word diet has come to mean, you'll find that when people are faced with cognitive dissonance, they tend to cling to ambiguities as a "Safe" ground. Moderation is the head-nodding response. Oh yes, that makes sense. If we eat everything, but in moderation, then it's OK for us.

There first needs to be an active moderating, and you also need to understand the compounds and reactions your circulatory and digestive systems will undergo while ingesting the food. The GI (glycemic index) isn't a new thing, but understanding its impact on energy storage is something that is being ignored. Fat - saturated or not - isn't bad for you. Understanding how that advice came out is key to understanding why everything is low fat, and those calories have been replaced by sugars.

Wait, isn't diabetes on the rise? Here's a Canadian article from 2008: http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=87752343-eb7e-4eab-b28d-a21678e02b51
We're halfway to 2016 in the prediction, and the answer is to eat more sugar.  A small potato is, to your bloodstream, the same as a quarter cup of sugar. http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/questionsandanswers/a/potatoglycemic.htm

As to the 20 min before full feeling? In my experience, I get full on my diet before I push my plate away. I eat my greens, I eat my fats from both plant (nuts), dairy, and meats.

I also don't work out to lose weight - I work out because I enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it to lose weight. Light physical activity may be good for your overall fitness- killing yourself at the gym isn't doing you any favors if you hate it though.

That sounds a bit...calmer.

I'm very familiar with the GI - my father is a diabetic - but that doesn't work for everyone.  For example, I drink only water, don't eat white potatoes (love sweet potatoes, but I'll only eat half), eat whole wheat stuff, don't generally eat a lot of processed sugars.  In short, I probably almost everything that you do.  I don't worry too much about fats.  I eat my veggies (lots of celery).  My blood sugar is great.  Cholesterol is wonderful.  Blood pressure is fine.  Resting pulse rate is 70 (I'll get that down to 65 this year).  In short, I'm a pretty damn healthy guy for my age.

Yet my weight can skyrocket on a moment's notice simply due to the quantity of calories I can consume.  I'm one of those people in which the hunger signals don't really ever turn off.  I can sit down and eat a 24-30 oz prime rib without blinking an eye.  I've already had two bowls of oatmeal and I could eat a 5 egg bacon and cheese omelet right this minute.  Bacon....



So for me to lose weight, I actually have to be fairly strict in counting calories because that's the only thing that gets me to control my portion size.  It really sucks.  It just goes to show that everyone is different.  You can push back from the table because you feel full.  I push back because I've consumed enough calories that so that I should logically be full, even though I don't feel full.

I only agree with the "don't exercise to lose weight" thing partially.  Since weight control is 80% diet, working out to control your weight isn't very effective.  But for many people, seeing their chest/butt/back firm up is further incentive to control their diet.  But I entirely agree that killing yourself at the gym if you hate it doesn't do a person any favors.  I've tried that many times and it's taken me this long to realize that no matter how much I kill myself at the gym, it's only a small component to weight control.
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« Reply #67 on: February 02, 2012, 02:38:40 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 04:47:31 PM

I'm not getting up early to make breakfast. I've tried it, and I don't have the ability to sacrifice 20 minutes of sleep in the morning to cook breakfast.

To be blunt, if you can't make that small sacrifice, you're not going to see much success.  It's not the breakfast per se, but having the willpower to make the necessary adjustments in your life. 

You keep saying you want to figure out what works for you, do things your way, etc.  That hasn't been very successful so far, has it?  Definition of insanity, and all that.  And I'm right there with you - I keep trying to lose weight by eating whatever I want, and just working it off in the gym.  And not surprisingly, it doesn't work.  I personally have to make that mental sea change to get my diet under control first and foremost if I want to see lasting results.
 
The experts are all in agreement on this point - you have to fuel the machine with high quality food if you want to see results.  Whether you choose a more traditional diet or go the paleo route is up to you.  But burritos and pop tarts aren't going to cut it.
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« Reply #68 on: February 02, 2012, 03:30:42 PM »

Fitness related, I just entered the lottery for the Laramie Enduro again.  Gotta improve on last year's time!  Bring on the bike ridin'.  I 'celebrated' with 90 minutes on the trainer while watching Ides of March.
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« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2012, 03:40:49 PM »

Quote from: Laner on February 02, 2012, 02:38:40 PM

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 01, 2012, 04:47:31 PM

I'm not getting up early to make breakfast. I've tried it, and I don't have the ability to sacrifice 20 minutes of sleep in the morning to cook breakfast.

To be blunt, if you can't make that small sacrifice, you're not going to see much success.  It's not the breakfast per se, but having the willpower to make the necessary adjustments in your life. 

You keep saying you want to figure out what works for you, do things your way, etc.  That hasn't been very successful so far, has it?  Definition of insanity, and all that.  And I'm right there with you - I keep trying to lose weight by eating whatever I want, and just working it off in the gym.  And not surprisingly, it doesn't work.  I personally have to make that mental sea change to get my diet under control first and foremost if I want to see lasting results.
 
The experts are all in agreement on this point - you have to fuel the machine with high quality food if you want to see results.  Whether you choose a more traditional diet or go the paleo route is up to you.  But burritos and pop tarts aren't going to cut it.


To be blunt, that's crap.  Just because I know myself to know what adjustments aren't going to work for me doesn't mean that those adjustments are the only ones that are going to work.  Some adjustments are easier than others for certain people to make, others harder.  By trying to fight with my own natural inclinations will just make those adjustments the ones that fail first.

And when I was fully into my program in 2009 and 2010, I had plenty of success.  I made the adjustments necessary to get where I wanted to be, then I slacked off because I wanted a break.  Well, the break turned into a backslide, and that's why I find myself where I am today.  This isn't my first rodeo.

For the last two days, I've tracked everything I've eaten.  I've been to the gym twice this week.  Just because I'm not making your adjustments, doesn't mean I'm not making ones that will benefit me.    I'm not figuring out what works for me.  I know what works for me, it's just getting back into the groove of actually doing it.
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« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2012, 03:43:37 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 02, 2012, 01:32:01 PM

That sounds a bit...calmer.

I'm very familiar with the GI - my father is a diabetic - but that doesn't work for everyone.  For example, I drink only water, don't eat white potatoes (love sweet potatoes, but I'll only eat half), eat whole wheat stuff, don't generally eat a lot of processed sugars.  In short, I probably almost everything that you do.  I don't worry too much about fats.  I eat my veggies (lots of celery).  My blood sugar is great.  Cholesterol is wonderful.  Blood pressure is fine.  Resting pulse rate is 70 (I'll get that down to 65 this year).  In short, I'm a pretty damn healthy guy for my age.

Yet my weight can skyrocket on a moment's notice simply due to the quantity of calories I can consume.  I'm one of those people in which the hunger signals don't really ever turn off.  I can sit down and eat a 24-30 oz prime rib without blinking an eye.  I've already had two bowls of oatmeal and I could eat a 5 egg bacon and cheese omelet right this minute.  Bacon....

[image removed]

So for me to lose weight, I actually have to be fairly strict in counting calories because that's the only thing that gets me to control my portion size.  It really sucks.  It just goes to show that everyone is different.  You can push back from the table because you feel full.  I push back because I've consumed enough calories that so that I should logically be full, even though I don't feel full.

I only agree with the "don't exercise to lose weight" thing partially.  Since weight control is 80% diet, working out to control your weight isn't very effective.  But for many people, seeing their chest/butt/back firm up is further incentive to control their diet.  But I entirely agree that killing yourself at the gym if you hate it doesn't do a person any favors.  I've tried that many times and it's taken me this long to realize that no matter how much I kill myself at the gym, it's only a small component to weight control.

The idea that obesity is a problem is a significant issue that is, IMHO, a misrepresentation of what is wrong. Look at it this way: if you have an infection in your system (be it bacterial or viral), our first reaction is to treat the symptoms. Runny nose, cough, vomiting, aches and pains, etc are addressed, but it doesn't fix the infection -this is why cough syrup is only used in our house as a way to deal with my son coughing too much at night to get rest. The body does all the healing, not the medicine. It's there as a support.

The same holds true for obesity. It is ONE symptom of a bigger problem - the other two are gluttony and sloth. These aren't elected issues, although sometimes mental states can contribute (depression, low self esteem, etc). Ultimately, your body is built with everything it needs to keep going. It strives to survive, often beyond the minds will, and a battle with your biological nature is setup for failure.

Sure, glut (overeating) may support obesity, but it wasn't like you sat down one day, overate, and that started you on the path to weight gain. It's a gradual thing, where the body is mismanaging its energy stores. The only control we have on this is what we put in, but we're given compulsory queues that will override your "willpower". So instead of holding back on every type of food "AKA moderation" (which is what it sounds like you've been doing, with moderate success), consider a revision to get your body on the right track.

Consider the possibility that grain isn't your friend, and that the starches and anti-nutrients found in grain are contributing to your dietary issues. Also consider that fructose in high quantities (AKA HFCS-55) is very damaging and introduces both triglycerides as WELL as a significant payload of glucose (thus causing both fat and sugar in the bloodstream, and triggering GI response that releases insulin which in turn triggers your LPL receptors to collect fats and sugars and store them in the tissues they sit on.

This is why "healthy" people still have heart disease - just because their body has LPL receptors that are less sensitive to insulin, or their body is geared slightly different and burns off, rather than storing the sugars, the problem still exists. The reason obese people are more at risk is because they have obvious symptoms, but by no means are fat people the only target. Right now they're doing everything they can to try and keep the population out of the "high risk" zone, rather than positively identify the root cause that puts EVERY.SINGLE.PERSON at risk. On the path of best of intentions, our food intake has been driven further from what we should be eating and thus creating a vicious circle. The worst part is, sugars affect your mental state and are actually addictive (there's a reason it's called "comfort food"), so it creates a self-defeat right in place.

Go to your grocery store, and find products without added glucose or corn products. You'll be standing in the meat isle. Hell, even sausages and bacon contain additives (unless you're careful). Most sausages now has bread crumbs as filler, because they don't want the "g of Fat" to go up with using other animal tissue, which, ironically, contain some of the bests nutrients for you. Lean meat isn't the best thing, which is why predators go after the organ meat, and leave the lean meat for the scavengers. That being said, you can sustain the same diet without meat, although it is significantly more difficult.

So that, there, is my "thing". Tongue
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 03:46:00 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2012, 05:50:26 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on February 02, 2012, 01:32:01 PM

I'm one of those people in which the hunger signals don't really ever turn off.  I can sit down and eat a 24-30 oz prime rib without blinking an eye.  I've already had two bowls of oatmeal and I could eat a 5 egg bacon and cheese omelet right this minute.  Bacon....

Same here. In my case, I chose to control what I eat rather than how much; the latter has simply never worked FOR ME. If I wanted, I could make that omelette or that steak or both right this moment and it would fit perfectly within what I'm doing.

And I think those last those two words "for me" are the important thing here. You guys seem to be getting on Grim for not doing things the way you would do them, but we all have to find what works for us. Not saying all of the advice is bad (it certainly isn't) but I think the environment could be a bit more constructive.

Making major changes in one's life isn't the easiest thing for everybody.

Quote from: Purge
significant payload of glucose (thus causing both fat and sugar in the bloodstream, and triggering GI response that releases insulin which in turn triggers your LPL receptors to collect fats and sugars and store them in the tissues they sit on

The key take away message here that not nearly enough people understand (and we have been preached the opposite since we were toddlers, so that is understandable) is that fat IN THE ABSENCE OF CARBOHYDRATES does not make you fat. In fact your body is not capable of deriving a net gain in energy from metabolizing dietary fat without the carbs to provide the energy (this is not some hokey science either, it is basic biochemistry). Without carbs, dietary fat has zero caloric value to your body. On the flip side, carbs in excess can and will make you fat.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 06:02:14 PM by Misguided » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: February 02, 2012, 06:03:40 PM »

I don't think it's the case that anyone is saying 'you have to do it this one way.'  I can only speak for myself, but the one key concept that I'm trying to get across is 'you need to commit.'  I would like to say more, but I said I'll shut up about it, so... I'll shut up about it.
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« Reply #73 on: February 02, 2012, 06:36:12 PM »

To get back to a more supportive theme, another discouraging factor people looking to lose weight sometimes struggle with has to do with when they weigh in.  A person's body weight can fluctuate as much as up to 5 lbs in a single day.  This has to do with a number of variables, including but not necessarily limited to food consumption and hydration level.  Why does this matter?

I've had people I train at the fitness center get frustrated because they'll weigh themselves in the morning when they wake up, then again at the gym, and they'll find that they've gained weight rather than lost any.  As your body is primarily water, your hydration level can influence your weight by a noticeable margin.  The solution?

First, don't weigh yourself every day.  Your weight will fluctuate and obsessing about it will be counterproductive.  Second, when you do weigh yourself, do so under the same conditions each and every time.  For example, if you want to weigh in weekly, do so on the same day, at the same time each week, such as first thing in the morning, when you roll out of bed, each and every Friday.  That way you haven't had anything to eat yet, you haven't had anything to drink (your hydration level is lower in the morning and so as soon as you start consuming water your body will hold more of it and contribute to a perceived weight gain), and you probably won't be wearing much (clothes can easily add a few pounds).

Finally, weight loss will be more rapid at first, and may eventually slow down or stall.  This stems from losing fat at first, but as you start to build muscle from a workout regiment you'll see smaller changes in weight, but that doesn't mean you have stopped losing fat.  Weight isn't necessarily an ideal measure of fitness and health, especially as you increase your level of fitness.  Instead you'll notice positive improvements in how your clothes fit and the redistribution of weight on your frame.  If your weight stops dropping for a bit, this doesn't mean you've hit an insurmountable or discouraging plateau, but that your fat loss is being balanced with muscle gain.   

Grim, you may already be aware of all of these things, so take it with a grain of salt.  But I've been consistently surprised by how many fitness center users are unaware of these very things.
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« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2012, 08:27:39 PM »

Yeah, I weigh on (generally) the same day of the week, right after my morning workout... sometimes I'll step on the scale and say 'what the hell?' When I re-weigh the next day at the same time and find I'm 3 or 4 pounds lower than I was the previous morning just based on what I've eaten on a particular day, whatever other variables.
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« Reply #75 on: February 03, 2012, 12:53:04 AM »

+1 on the morning weigh-ins.  I'm typically anywhere from 4-6 lbs heavier at night than I am in the morning.
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« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2012, 07:16:09 AM »

Misguided, I understand what you're saying re:telling grim what to do, how to do it ... the disconnect is, by his own comment, that the lifestyle he chose wasn't one he can sustain and he had to take a break. When your body needs something, there is no break. Take expression of the bladder, or excrement. You may be able to delay it, but ultimately your mind cannot override biology.

I want Grim to win. I really do. I like him - he recognizes obscure Garfield references. And for me, when you care about Tom catching that damned mouse Jerry, you yell "Watch out for the yard filled with Rakes!!" at the TV, even if he can't hear you.

It's about 2 weeks of hell, as you're overcoming sugar withdrawal. It ain't fun, and the first three days will f*** your bowel movements up. Then? You eat when you're hungry, you stop when you're not / full. It's very liberating. The clock does not determine when your body wants food, so put away the ideas of breakfast, lunch and dinner.

I do eat fairly early in the morning, and it tends to be my big meal. At lunch I hit the gym, and then I have a protein shake after the workout (still fairly low GI), or I'll hit the almonds and cheese snack.
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« Reply #77 on: February 03, 2012, 01:40:05 PM »

Well, the bottom line is if you are "dieting", like the vast majority of people who do, you have stepped on a rollercoaster.  People see success and then go back to their old ways, often ending up weighing more than previously. 
 Most diets are doomed to failure because they fail to do the one most important thing. They dont modify your bad eating habits.  They may help you lose weight, but they just put off the behavior that got you to obesity in the first place.  Most people hit a goal and then fall back into the bad habits again.  That is why my doctor stresses behavioral modification instead of any of the 1000's of fad diets.  If you want to lose weight and keep it off you have to make changes that are not meant to be temporary.
 This is also why he states that exercise is not the route to weight reduction.  Too many people tend to see exercise are a means of continuing bad habits.  The whole I can have that supersized value meal. I just have to work it off attitude does not work for most people, it just gives them an excuse to fall back.  He certainly doesnt want people to forgo exercise and he makes sure you are aware of the various benefits.  He just doesnt want you using exercise as a support to bad eating, and far too many people fall into that trap.  Eventually, the exercise stops and the bad eating habits remain.
  Simply put, you need to make permanent behavioral changes, if you want permanent weight loss.  Otherwise, as I said, you are just jumping back on the rollercoaster.   
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« Reply #78 on: February 03, 2012, 03:43:36 PM »

I didn't need a break, I wanted one.  I wanted to not have to put in the mental effort any more.  It wasn't some overwhelming physical need to stop doing it.  After 18 months, I made a conscious decision and am seeing the results.  Most smokers and alcoholics don't stick to their programs the first few times through, either.  There are setbacks, but the main thing is to keep trying until you succeed and get everything you need into place.  And I'm back for round 2.

Code:
02/03 - 252.2 (34.2)
01/27 - 251.4 (34.1)
01/20 - 253.6 (34.4)
01/13 - 250.4 (34.0)
01/06 - 251.8 (34.1)
01/02 - 253.0 (34.3)

I'll take it.  I went on a massive food bender on Sunday, and was staring 256 in the face on Monday morning.  Since then, I've made it to the gym twice, and gone back to strict calorie counting, which has brought me back from that brink.

Now to sustain it.  It worked for me in 2010, time to make it a permanent change.
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« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2012, 04:04:34 PM »

Quote from: Isgrimnur on February 03, 2012, 03:43:36 PM

...I've made it to the gym twice...

You still owe me a third trip this week as we previously discussed.   drillsergeant

 icon_biggrin
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