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Author Topic: The 'EngineNo9 Kicked Us Out of the Other Thread' Buffy/Angel Discussion Thread  (Read 3561 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #80 on: December 03, 2011, 10:54:51 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on December 03, 2011, 04:23:30 PM

We watched it in between Buffy seasons, and Buffy felt like the reward for doing so.

It went both ways for me. Some seasons Angel felt like a reward for Buffy, and others were opposite. The worst parts of Angel for me were seasons 3 and 4, where every episode of Buffy felt like heaven, but season 5 more than made up for it.

Quote
There are two characters that sort of shouldn't have existed, IMO:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Lorne is one.  Never cared for him at all.  However, without him, we wouldn't have Amy Acker who is just fantastic.  The other is Connor.  However, the episode that spawned him is one of Angel's best ever.  The show is really a mixed bag.

Spoiler for Hiden:
I definitely agree about Connor, a character that could ruin any episode he was in. Lorne however was much better, though I didn't like him at first. He grows as a character and becomes sort of a more light-hearted anchor for the group. The way his arch ends is also awesome.

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« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2011, 01:33:34 AM »

Quote from: TiLT on December 03, 2011, 10:54:51 PM

The worst parts of Angel for me were seasons 3 and 4, where every episode of Buffy felt like heaven, but season 5 more than made up for it.

Seasons 3 and 4 of Angel are actually my favourite. Relevantly to Gratch's concern, those are actually the seasons that are least focused on the "case of the week" format and much more serialized, to a degree that turns some people off and caused one character to describe the whole plotline as a "turgid soap-opera". Season 5, by contrast, was a deliberate (and network-forced) attempt to push the show back to more self-contained episodes.

FWIW, I'm not a huge fan of that-guy-you-mentioned either (although I never found him to be an episode-ruiner) but I absolutely loved the villains in Season 3, Season 4 had the phenomenal Faith episodes (this is the stuff you were missing in Buffy S7, Gratch) and the totally awesome character arc of the person-whose-name-I-will-not-spoil culminates across those two seasons. On, and Gwen Raiden was criminally underused. That said, don't get me started on Jasmine.

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« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2011, 09:35:55 PM »

Finished the first season of Angel last night, and came away with a resounding 'meh'.  One of the reasons Buffy was so great was due to the absolutely fantastic supporting cast around the main character.  Angel is a cool character by himself, but Cordelia, Wesley, and Doyle are about as interesting as watching paint dry.  Hoping Season 2 is a little more entertaining.
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« Reply #83 on: December 22, 2011, 10:10:25 PM »

Angel is one that gets pretty consistently better as it goes.  Season 1 is by far the weakest.
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« Reply #84 on: December 22, 2011, 10:12:57 PM »

There's a very, very good supporting character who appears in season 2.
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« Reply #85 on: December 22, 2011, 11:39:11 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 22, 2011, 09:35:55 PM

Finished the first season of Angel last night, and came away with a resounding 'meh'.  One of the reasons Buffy was so great was due to the absolutely fantastic supporting cast around the main character.  Angel is a cool character by himself, but Cordelia, Wesley, and Doyle are about as interesting as watching paint dry.  Hoping Season 2 is a little more entertaining.

All of that is about to change!
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« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2011, 04:04:14 PM »

Noted: I will watch this show eventually. Right now I'm still chugging through BSG for the first time.
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« Reply #87 on: December 24, 2011, 01:49:54 AM »

Quote from: Purge on December 23, 2011, 04:04:14 PM

Noted: I will watch this show eventually. Right now I'm still chugging through BSG for the first time.

Uh oh.  Watch it, or Engine's going to demand another thread.
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« Reply #88 on: December 26, 2011, 02:29:39 PM »

Just finished up Season 2 of Buffy last night... only 110 to go.  icon_wink

I'm curious - do we still need spoiler tags to discuss things here? Me thinks... not.
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« Reply #89 on: December 26, 2011, 04:17:25 PM »

Damnit, MF.  Now I know how many episodes there are!  Spoilerz!!!1!!
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« Reply #90 on: December 26, 2011, 04:34:46 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 26, 2011, 02:29:39 PM

Just finished up Season 2 of Buffy last night... only 110 to go.  icon_wink

I'm curious - do we still need spoiler tags to discuss things here? Me thinks... not.

Probably not for Buffy, but I'm still working my way through Angel.  Spoiler tags would be helpful there.
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« Reply #91 on: December 26, 2011, 04:54:17 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on December 26, 2011, 04:17:25 PM

Damnit, MF.  Now I know how many episodes there are!  Spoilerz!!!1!!

Sorry dude.  icon_cry
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« Reply #92 on: December 26, 2011, 04:55:06 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 26, 2011, 04:34:46 PM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 26, 2011, 02:29:39 PM

Just finished up Season 2 of Buffy last night... only 110 to go.  icon_wink

I'm curious - do we still need spoiler tags to discuss things here? Me thinks... not.

Probably not for Buffy, but I'm still working my way through Angel.  Spoiler tags would be helpful there.

No problem.
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« Reply #93 on: January 05, 2012, 02:13:16 PM »

Watched two episodes from S3 last night. The first was the big break-up episode where Spike comes back to town, singing Robert Goulet and pine'n for Dru. In the process Buffy 'leaves' Angel, Zander & Willow get busted and Cordellia... impaled. The next one brings Anya into Sunnydale, helping Cordy in her own special way when she decides Buffy is the cause of all of her problems and wishes she never showed up. Hilarity ensues... well, mostly death. Dusty, bitey and neck snappy death.  icon_eek

Was interesting to see Zander & Willow as The Master's right-hand couple and Angel as their whipped puppy, whining for Buffy. I don't think Sarah quite pulled off the hard-ass Buffy (nice scar) but loved her interaction with Angel and complete non-reaction when he dies. Giles saves the day and also seems to save Willow from waking up covered in money hair. LOL

Good stuffs.
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« Reply #94 on: January 05, 2012, 07:19:08 PM »

Personally I think Wesley has the best character arc in the entire Buffyverse.
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« Reply #95 on: January 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM »

Wesley was in the Angelverse.  icon_wink
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« Reply #96 on: January 06, 2012, 06:08:09 AM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on January 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM

Wesley was in the Angelverse.  icon_wink

 Roll Eyes  Even if you make that differentiation, his first appearances were on Buffy.
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« Reply #97 on: January 06, 2012, 01:15:13 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on January 06, 2012, 06:08:09 AM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on January 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM

Wesley was in the Angelverse.  icon_wink

 Roll Eyes  Even if you make that differentiation, his first appearances were on Buffy.

Plus he's married to Willow IRL, so the whole thing is a smorgasbord of interconnectivity.
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« Reply #98 on: January 06, 2012, 02:14:49 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 06, 2012, 01:15:13 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 06, 2012, 06:08:09 AM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on January 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM

Wesley was in the Angelverse.  icon_wink

 Roll Eyes  Even if you make that differentiation, his first appearances were on Buffy.

Plus he's married to Willow IRL, so the whole thing is a smorgasbord of interconnectivity.

Huh, you learn something new every day.

Halfway through Season 2 of Angel, and it has finally started to get interesting with the Darla story.  Still doesn't come close to Buffy, mainly because the supporting cast isn't nearly as strong.  Cordelia and Wesley are both completely dull and/or whiny, and Gun is pretty much just filling space at this point.  I like his character, but wish they'd do something - anything - with him besides simply being Angel's backup on missions.
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« Reply #99 on: January 06, 2012, 02:23:54 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 06, 2012, 02:14:49 PM

Quote from: Bullwinkle on January 06, 2012, 01:15:13 PM

Quote from: Harkonis on January 06, 2012, 06:08:09 AM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on January 06, 2012, 05:53:04 AM

Wesley was in the Angelverse.  icon_wink

 Roll Eyes  Even if you make that differentiation, his first appearances were on Buffy.

Plus he's married to Willow IRL, so the whole thing is a smorgasbord of interconnectivity.

Huh, you learn something new every day.

Halfway through Season 2 of Angel, and it has finally started to get interesting with the Darla story.  Still doesn't come close to Buffy, mainly because the supporting cast isn't nearly as strong.  Cordelia and Wesley are both completely dull and/or whiny, and Gun is pretty much just filling space at this point.  I like his character, but wish they'd do something - anything - with him besides simply being Angel's backup on missions.

I would say the Darla story definitely reaches Buffy-level goodness, and Gun gets better, but, yeah, Angel is uneven throughout its run.  Still worth seeing, though.
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« Reply #100 on: January 07, 2012, 10:37:47 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 06, 2012, 02:14:49 PM

Halfway through Season 2 of Angel, and it has finally started to get interesting with the Darla story.  Still doesn't come close to Buffy, mainly because the supporting cast isn't nearly as strong.  Cordelia and Wesley are both completely dull and/or whiny, and Gun is pretty much just filling space at this point.  I like his character, but wish they'd do something - anything - with him besides simply being Angel's backup on missions.

Without spoiling anything, I think that by the time the series is over, your opinion on the supporting cast will be radically different.
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« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2012, 03:53:12 PM »

About halfway through Season 3 of Buffy and as mentioned, Wesley has shown up as "the new watcher" for "B" and Faith. Wow, I'd forgetten what a complete dweeb his character starts off as but I do recall the transformation he goes through in Angel. I haven't watched either series since they originally aired (once a week and with commercials, yeesh) so nice to stream episodes one after another for as long as I can handle at a stretch. And it seems that I've forgotten enough of the nuances that there are usually nice little surprises every time I watch. Like Good Willow v. Bad Willow... LOL
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« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2012, 05:32:27 PM »

I finished Season 2 of Angel last night, and wasn't sure what to think.  The "other dimension" stuff was alternately funny and eye-rolling, but seeing Cordelia spend most of the time in a bikini certainly wasn't a bad thing.  I've actually grown to like Lorne quite a bit, although I could see how he could rub people the wrong way.  Wes is still kind of a dork, but he is getting better.  Cordelia is a mixed bag.  It seemed like she was finally "growing up" and getting past the spoiled brat phase, but...: 
Spoiler for Hiden:
After Angel's "Darla" episode, Cordelia is (rightfully) pissed off at him, going so far as to tell Angel "we're not friends".  Of course, when he buys her a bunch of clothes and a couple lunches, she's suddenly completely OK with everything again.   Roll Eyes

Got 2 episodes into Season 3 last night, and it's certainly raising some eyebrows.  Especially about Darla.   saywhat
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« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2012, 07:58:54 PM »

That's classic Cordy though
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« Reply #104 on: January 24, 2012, 11:42:40 AM »

So when you guys said that Cordy
Spoiler for Hiden:
becomes part-demon
, I thought you were referring to her getting the visions.  I had no idea how literal they were going to make that.   eek

Was funny to see Progressive's Flo pop up in an episode.
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« Reply #105 on: January 24, 2012, 11:49:38 AM »

Yeah when I rewatched the show and saw the file clerk it was quite amusing.
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« Reply #106 on: January 24, 2012, 02:39:06 PM »

Just watched the first episode of Angel again. Back in the day, I would have had no idea who he was but now it was fun to see Elliot 'The Hitter' from Leverage as the representative from Wolfram & Hart.  icon_wink
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« Reply #107 on: January 26, 2012, 05:29:52 AM »

First Flo, and now River?  I'm digging these casting surprises.   thumbsup  I knew she had a dance background, but had no idea she could do ballet that well.  Very impressive.

I have to admit, I did not see the
Spoiler for Hiden:
Fred/Gunn
relationship coming.  Seems a little odd, but maybe it'll work.
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« Reply #108 on: January 31, 2012, 02:37:26 AM »

One of you made the comment earlier that you thought somewhere along the line, Angel became the better show.  After this current story arc*, I'm not sure I can disagree. 

*
Spoiler for Hiden:
Angel's son, Cordelia and Gru (who is hilarious), Angel's baby, Holtz and Wes.  Powerful stuff all around.  Maybe it's because I have a daughter, but seeing Angel's reaction to losing his son has been heartwrenching.
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« Reply #109 on: January 31, 2012, 04:14:41 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on January 31, 2012, 02:37:26 AM

One of you made the comment earlier that you thought somewhere along the line, Angel became the better show.  After this current story arc*, I'm not sure I can disagree. 

*
Spoiler for Hiden:
Angel's son, Cordelia and Gru (who is hilarious), Angel's baby, Holtz and Wes.  Powerful stuff all around.  Maybe it's because I have a daughter, but seeing Angel's reaction to losing his son has been heartwrenching.

You might disagree next season.  We'll see.  For me it hit the nadir on that rainy rooftop.
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« Reply #110 on: February 04, 2012, 07:02:44 AM »

Just finished season four of Buffy... interesting the amount of foreshadowing they did for the next one, key things that I'm sure went over my head back in the day take on a whole new meaning.  icon_cool

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« Reply #111 on: February 04, 2012, 12:33:11 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 03, 2011, 09:34:11 PM

From what I recall, Season 4 almost killed Angel. Somehow they managed to get permission for one more (a final) season and they went out with a bang.  icon_wink

that is very true.  I loved Season 5 but it was very much a love-it-or-hate-it season for many.
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« Reply #112 on: February 04, 2012, 03:34:28 PM »

Quote from: Harkonis on February 04, 2012, 12:33:11 PM

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 03, 2011, 09:34:11 PM

From what I recall, Season 4 almost killed Angel. Somehow they managed to get permission for one more (a final) season and they went out with a bang.  icon_wink

that is very true.  I loved Season 5 but it was very much a love-it-or-hate-it season for many.

There were some things about the last season I like a lot.  I liked the throw-everything-to-the-wall-and-see-what-sticks approach.  They seemed to be having fun again.

Also, it was the season where I realized Amy Acker was actually more amazing than I'd been giving her credit for.
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« Reply #113 on: February 05, 2012, 05:24:25 AM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on December 03, 2011, 09:34:11 PM

From what I recall, Season 4 almost killed Angel. Somehow they managed to get permission for one more (a final) season and they went out with a bang.  icon_wink

I'd agree with this.  I'm 6 episodes into Season 4, and so far it's been one giant WTF after another. 
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« Reply #114 on: February 06, 2012, 12:20:08 PM »

There have been lots of questionable hook-ups throughout the course of Buffy/Angel, but the one I watched last night takes the cake.  By a mile.

Spoiler for Hiden:
Cordelia and Connor?  What.  The.  Fuck?!?   saywhat
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« Reply #115 on: February 06, 2012, 05:17:48 PM »

There are too many spoilers to even address that question.  I will say that season 4 is much better on subsequent viewings.  It's still not as good as the other seasons, but I really hated parts of it the first time I watched it.  Now, it's ok with some good and a few great moments.
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« Reply #116 on: February 08, 2012, 04:21:52 PM »

Complete Angel collection on dvd for under 60 bucks.

I think I enjoyed Angel almost as much as I did Buffy.  Especially the later seasons.
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« Reply #117 on: February 16, 2012, 01:50:43 PM »

Man... just watched The Body and Forever last night, in spite of knowing that it is coming it's still not something that's easy to watch. Heck, even April the sexbot in the lead-in episode dies, more Whedon foreshadowing I suppose. icon_cry
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« Reply #118 on: February 16, 2012, 07:46:15 PM »

Quote from: Hrothgar on February 06, 2012, 05:17:48 PM

There are too many spoilers to even address that question.  I will say that season 4 is much better on subsequent viewings.  It's still not as good as the other seasons, but I really hated parts of it the first time I watched it.  Now, it's ok with some good and a few great moments.

I'm almost through with Season 4 (have 3 more episodes), and it's a real head-scratcher.  Not sure if I completely hate it - a lot will depend on how they wrap it up - but it's certainly my least favorite season so far. 

Seeing everyone worship Zoe is...odd.  slywink
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« Reply #119 on: February 16, 2012, 08:25:10 PM »

Kneel before Zoe(d)
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