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Author Topic: The 'EngineNo9 Kicked Us Out of the Other Thread' Buffy/Angel Discussion Thread  (Read 3600 times)
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TiLT
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« Reply #40 on: October 27, 2011, 01:51:26 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2011, 01:37:37 PM

Also watched the first episode of Angel.  Not thrilled about Cordelia, but will certainly give it a look.

Angel rocks! Well, except parts of season 3 and the entirety of season 4, which both suck. In fact, anything involving Connor (you'll know him when you see him) is absolutely horrible. The show redeems itself with the final season though.
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« Reply #41 on: October 27, 2011, 03:13:19 PM »

Quote from: TiLT on October 27, 2011, 01:51:26 PM

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2011, 01:37:37 PM

Also watched the first episode of Angel.  Not thrilled about Cordelia, but will certainly give it a look.

Angel rocks! Well, except parts of season 3 and the entirety of season 4, which both suck. In fact, anything involving Connor (you'll know him when you see him) is absolutely horrible. The show redeems itself with the final season though.

I agree about Connor, though the actor has redeemed himself on Mad Men.

I was also not a big fan of Lorne.
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« Reply #42 on: October 27, 2011, 03:34:37 PM »

Just watched 'Hush' from Season 4.  That one goes up with my favorite episodes of any show.
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« Reply #43 on: October 27, 2011, 04:06:01 PM »

I know this may get me lynched on this forum, but Angel sucks, very overrated.  I love Buffy and Firefly, two of my all time favorite shows so Angel should have been right up my alley.  Due to forum effect and everyone saying how good it is and to stick with it it gets better I actually watched through the first disk of season 5, then I had to stop. 

Spoiler for Hiden:
As mentioned Connor is awful, awful, awful - bad acting, badly written, bad stories, all around not good.  What is not often mentioned is Gun is terrible as well. Wolfram & Hart is stupid.  They ruin Cordelia.  Drusilla is her normal awesome self.  Fred is awesome as well. The Darla stuff is ok, not as good as advertised.  Wesley is hit and miss.  Angel does not work half as well without Buffy.  Lorne, who I actually kind of like on his own, is a symptom of what IMO really makes this show weak (and also weakens later seasons of Buffy to some degree).  The evil/vampires/demons/occult/whatever is too out in the open.  Everyone knows about it, it is nothing special.  Every new character it seems says something like "Vampires?  Oh ya I run into them all the time."  Lorne and Wolfram & Hart epitomize this.  Lorne runs a karaoke bar open to the public and eventually has the biggest show in Vegas?  One of the biggest law firms in Cal. run by demons and everyone who works there human or not know about it?  Dumb.  Oh ya, almost forgot about "the powers that be" and how much I hate them as well.  I do love me some Fred though, she got me through the series. 
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« Reply #44 on: October 27, 2011, 05:33:14 PM »

Season 5 of Angel is awesome, you talking crazy son
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« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2011, 06:12:45 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2011, 03:34:37 PM

Just watched 'Hush' from Season 4.  That one goes up with my favorite episodes of any show.

You're not alone in that opinion.

There are a few other episodes that come close, but for different reasons (and one that I think surpasses it)*, but it's some landmark television.

The only thing that has come close to matching the creepy factor is "Blink" from Doctor Who.  I immediately thought of "Hush" when I saw that.

*
Spoiler for Hiden:
Of course, "Once More With Feeling" is just damned good fun, but I think "The Body" may be the finest thing Joss has ever done.
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« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2011, 06:20:43 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on October 27, 2011, 06:12:45 PM

*
Spoiler for Hiden:
Of course, "Once More With Feeling" is just damned good fun, but I think "The Body" may be the finest thing Joss has ever done.

Spoiler for Hiden:
"Once More With Feeling" was actually supposed to be where "Hush" is in the show, but they weren't able to do it so they replaced it with an episode that was its complete opposite.
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« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2011, 06:47:35 PM »

All of the spoilered episodes are indeed fantastic. 
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« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2011, 04:17:15 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on October 27, 2011, 03:34:37 PM

Just watched 'Hush' from Season 4.  That one goes up with my favorite episodes of any show.

Yup, told ya... well, back in that other thread.  icon_wink
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« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2011, 06:08:00 PM »

I recently posted this on OO but thought it was worth sharing here:

Wow, finally finished all 7 seasons again via Netflicks Instant Streaming and what a ride it was. Doing a marathon like this is the way to do it. So many episodes foreshadow future episodes or call back to previous episodes (sometimes just a single line of dialogue inserted for a laugh) that it was much better watching them all close together, one after the other.

Favorite episodes:

Spoiler for Hiden:
The Becoming - Buffy defeats Angelus, but has to kill Angel, all to save the world
Anne - This is the first episode where I think we start to see how powerful Buffy really is as she takes on a horde of demons in a hell dimension
Helpless - Buffy, her powers taken from her by the Watchers Council, has to defeat a powerful insane vampire as an 18th birthday test
The Prom - Buffy is named "Class Protector" showing that everyone at school wasn't exactly clueless as to what was going on in Sunnydale
Graduation Day - Buffy leads the Sunnydale High Senior Class of 1999? in a fight against the demonic mayor at their graduation ceremony
Hush - JW's tribute to silent movies? smile And Giles presentation using an overhead projector and stick figures is not to be missed!
The Body - Joyce dies, and no show has ever been more realistic about an unexpected death and it's impact on those left behind
The Gift - Buffy kicks Glory's ass, dies (again) and saves the world
Once More, With Feeling - JW's tribute to musicals? smile and everyone's secrets are revealed . . . I think I was in heaven . . .
Grave - Xander stops Dark Willow with the only weapon he has
Showtime - Buffy, after getting her ass kicked the previous episode by the uber vamp, sets up a confrontation with the uber vamp in front of all of the Potentials, to show them how it's done.
Chosen - The final episode, the final battle against Evil, with everything on the line. Buffy has no words in the final scene, just a smile.

Favorite moments, emotional highs/lows, great fights:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Buffy, having been tormented by dreams of the dead master who killed her (the first time), emotionally breaks down as she smashes his bones which has been gathered by a group of vamps seeking to resurrect him

The first appearance of Spike and Drusilla

Buffy, jumping to the top of a merchandise counter in the middle of a crowded a mall and using a rocket launcher against a powerful demon just arriving to launch his reign of terror, blowing him to bits (truly one of the most over the top moments in the show!)

Angelus killing Jenny Calendar​, totally unexpected (and she was so hot too!)

Angelus' surprise "gift" for Giles in his apartment after killing Jenny (this was so totally evil and depraved!)

Buffy's fight against Angelus, seemingly defeated, catching and stopping Angelus' sword in her bare hands, then going on to defeat him

Buffy having defeated Angelus, preparing to kill him to seal off a hell dimension, is forced to kill Angel instead as Willow's spell changes him back from Angelus

Spike and Joyce sharing an awkward moment in the den, when they realize they've met before when Joyce hit Spike with an axe in the head as he tried to attack Buffy smile

Buffy and Faith's knockdown drag out fight to the finish, second best fight of the show

The death of Buffy's mom

Buffy, with the Watcher's Council in town to assess her, tells them off and lays down the law - they work for her, not the other way around! (And Giles gets back pay in the deal! smile )

Buffy's tombstone: She saved the world - a lot

Buffy's fight with Dark Willow, third best fight of the show

Xander saves the world from Dark Willow with the only weapon he had . . . I love you, Willow . . .

Buffy, alone, after getting her ass kicked by the uber vamp. She looks horrible, eyes blackened, bruises on her face, a big gash on one side, puffy lips, the worst she's ever looked on the show after a fight. She's listening to her friends despairing of what to do . . . Buffy was our plan. There is no back up . . . She gets up, then marches in and give the gutsiest speech she ever gives on the show:

I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared. I'm standing on the mouth of hell, and it is gonna swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me. We're not ready? They're not ready. They think we're gonna wait for the end to come, like we always do. I'm done waiting. They want an apocalypse? Oh, we'll give 'em one. Anyone else who wants to run, do it now. 'Cause we just became an army. We just declared war. From now on, we won't just face our worst fears, we will seek them out. We will find them, and cut out their hearts one by one, until The First shows itself for what it really is. And I'll kill it myself. There is only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil, and that's us. Any questions?


Buffy, defeating the uber vamp, best fight of the entire show. I love this one because Buffy won this on sheer determination. Towards the end of the fight, after pretty much being beaten down, she's still standing there toe to toe with the uber vamp, trading blows, boom, boom, boom, neither one fazing the other until the uber vamp finally goes down, and then Buffy maneuvers into position to take it's head off with a garrote she's fashioned with wire. At the end she looks almost as bad as after her previous fight with the uber vamp, but the difference is this time she's alive and it's dead . . . Here endeth the lesson

Buffy losing her leadership of the Potentials after a disastrous initial foray against Caleb, the minion of the First. She was in total shock and disbelief, and then emotionally crushed because everyone, even her friends (except for Spike) and sister doubted her and turned against her when she wanted to attack again, realizing that Caleb was protecting something. In the end, she's proven right and has to rescue everyone (as usual) but she has to go through this crisis of leadership first.

I could go on and on, and I've probably missed something I'll think of later, but this was just a great show, really one of the best shows ever on television.
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« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2011, 01:55:08 PM »

Finished Season 4 last night.  A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  Someone mentioned it earlier, but the way they are developing these characters is really fantastic.  Watching them change, grow, and mature like actual people over the course of 4 years has been very satisfying to watch.

-  I actually kinda liked the whole Initiative/Adam storyline.  It set up a conflict between real-world military might and otherworldly demon strength that I found very interesting.  Liked what they did with Adam, in making him an intelligent monster, rather than a "HULK SMASH" sort of character.  His demise was a little  saywhat, but otherwise I thought he was a strong character.

-  Poor Riley.  As hard as he tries, he'll simply never be as cool as Angel.  That said, I thought they did an excellent job weaving him into the story.  Kudos to that actor though...that would have been a tough act to follow.

-  Still needs more Spike.  smile

-  Not watching Angel made for some serious WTF moments when they did the crossover episodes.  During one of the "Previous on Buffy..." it started showing stuff with Angel, Buffy, and Faith that left me scratching my head and thinking that Netflix had screwed up the episode order or something.  Took me a few minutes before figuring out what they did.

-  OK, what the holy hell was up with that last episode ("Restless", I think it was called).  I'm sure it's probably setting things up and foreshadowing, but what an awful, awful way to end a season.  I thought the "Beer" episode was bad, but that one takes the cake.

-  Oddly, I thought the whole Willow/Oz breakup was far more difficult to watch than the Buffy/Angel one.  The episode where Oz finds out Willow switched teams was quite powerful.

-  Mentioned it already, but "Hush" was an amazing, incredible, wonderful 45 minutes of TV.  What an awesome episode.

Off to Season 5!  smile
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« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2011, 02:31:18 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on November 04, 2011, 01:55:08 PM

Finished Season 4 last night.  A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  OK, what the holy hell was up with that last episode ("Restless", I think it was called).  I'm sure it's probably setting things up and foreshadowing, but what an awful, awful way to end a season.  I thought the "Beer" episode was bad, but that one takes the cake.
it felt like they realized they were an episode short for the full season order, but, according to Joss, he 'wanted to do something different' for the S4 finale.
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« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2011, 02:53:36 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 04, 2011, 02:31:18 PM

Quote from: Gratch on November 04, 2011, 01:55:08 PM

Finished Season 4 last night.  A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  OK, what the holy hell was up with that last episode ("Restless", I think it was called).  I'm sure it's probably setting things up and foreshadowing, but what an awful, awful way to end a season.  I thought the "Beer" episode was bad, but that one takes the cake.
it felt like they realized they were an episode short for the full season order, but, according to Joss, he 'wanted to do something different' for the S4 finale.

Gah...should have known better than to click on that article.  Spoilers aboundeth.   frown

Spoiler for Hiden:
So apparently Buffy has a sister named Dawn
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« Reply #53 on: November 04, 2011, 03:02:59 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on November 04, 2011, 02:53:36 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on November 04, 2011, 02:31:18 PM

Quote from: Gratch on November 04, 2011, 01:55:08 PM

Finished Season 4 last night.  A few thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  OK, what the holy hell was up with that last episode ("Restless", I think it was called).  I'm sure it's probably setting things up and foreshadowing, but what an awful, awful way to end a season.  I thought the "Beer" episode was bad, but that one takes the cake.
it felt like they realized they were an episode short for the full season order, but, according to Joss, he 'wanted to do something different' for the S4 finale.

Gah...should have known better than to click on that article.  Spoilers aboundeth.   frown

Spoiler for Hiden:
So apparently Buffy has a sister named Dawn

shit, sorry.  I should have just quoted the appropriate bit.  frack, no more explaining stuff first thing in the morning.
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« Reply #54 on: November 04, 2011, 03:30:42 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on November 04, 2011, 03:02:59 PM

shit, sorry.  I should have just quoted the appropriate bit.  frack, no more explaining stuff first thing in the morning.

No worries.
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« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2011, 11:48:44 AM »

Just watched "The Body" episode in Season 5.  Wow, that was some seriously powerful TV.  I kept thinking they would say "OK, just kidding!", but it never happened. 

Damn.   crybaby
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« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2011, 01:41:50 PM »

Yeah, that's the one.
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« Reply #57 on: November 15, 2011, 02:51:23 PM »

Dagnabbit, now you've got me watching these all over again. Two down, only one hundred and forty-two to go.  saywhat
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« Reply #58 on: November 15, 2011, 03:08:52 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on November 15, 2011, 02:51:23 PM

Dagnabbit, now you've got me watching these all over again. Two down, only one hundred and forty-two to go.  saywhat

I just added up my time, and over the last month I have spent over 3 full days watching Buffy...and I'm only a little over 2/3 of the way through.   icon_eek

And here I thought my gaming habit was a time sink.
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« Reply #59 on: November 15, 2011, 07:50:41 PM »

You know, as embarrassing as it is to have a thread with this title constantly on the first page of Off-Topic, I think it really validates my kicking you guys out of the Netflix thread.  Tongue
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« Reply #60 on: November 19, 2011, 09:40:15 PM »

Just finished Season 5.  Um...wow. 

Quick thoughts (more later):  Probably my second favorite season so far.  Thought they did an excellent job creating tension around the final confrontation, and this was really the only time I've felt like one of the "scooby gang" was actually in danger.  Certainly didn't expect things to end like that though.
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« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2011, 03:28:23 PM »

Halfway through Season 6 (watched 14 of 22 episodes), and I'm going to assume that this is generally considered to be the worst season.  I mean, honestly...?

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  The 3 dorky "villians" are completely lame.
-  No Giles   saywhat
-  The whole Buffy/Spike thing...ewwww.
-  Tara leaving midway through 
-  The hamfisted spells = drugs storyline with Willow

Is the last season any better?  I know one of my favorite actors* has a significant role, and dude can make anything better.

*
Spoiler for Hiden:
Nathan "The Hammer is my Penis" Fillion
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« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2011, 03:34:17 PM »

it gets somewhat better around the 18th episode, but yeah, season 6 was pretty weak.  I don't know if it had to do with them switching networks or if it was Joss and the other writers running out of ideas.

[edit]  BTW, season 7 has a few crossovers with Angel season 4 that might make you feel kind of lost if you don't watch the Angel episodes.
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« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2011, 03:37:59 PM »

]I really like Season 7 ( I would probably rank it fourth behind Season 2,3, and 5) but I'm kind of an outlier.  However most people still like it better than Season 6.  

Quote from: CeeKay on November 24, 2011, 03:34:17 PM

it gets somewhat better around the 18th episode, but yeah, season 6 was pretty weak.  I don't know if it had to do with them switching networks or if it was Joss and the other writers running out of ideas.

I blame Marti Noxon- she took over as show runner while Joss was busy on Firefly.  I think S6 had the potential to be great in concept but the execution was generally pretty poor.
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« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2011, 05:56:58 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on November 24, 2011, 03:28:23 PM

Halfway through Season 6 (watched 14 of 22 episodes), and I'm going to assume that this is generally considered to be the worst season.  I mean, honestly...?

I almost posted after your season five wrap-up to warn you that a lot of people don't like six. It's actually one of my favourites, to be honest, but it has a very definite change in tone (to something more "adult", dealing with Buffy's depression, treating magic like a drug addiction, etc.) that makes it generally unpopular. On the other hand: Once More With Feeling.

Oh, and regarding your contention that the absence of Giles is a bad thing, I have only one thing to say: I'd like to test that theory.

- Ash
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« Reply #65 on: November 26, 2011, 11:38:02 PM »

Season 6 is down.  

Spoiler for Hiden:
Holy damn.

For as weak as that season started out, it ended very, very strong.  And very, very dark.   Having Willow go apeshit is not at all where I though that storyline was going to go.  In retrospect, the whole three dorky "villains" thing makes complete sense, even though it seemed awfully cheesy at the beginning.  Seeing Willow skin that dude alive...damn.   eek  

Really bummed about Tara though, she had become one of my favorite characters.  They did a masterful job with it though.  Bringing her back in slowly, finally getting back to having her as part of the "regular" cast (she even got a main listing in the opening credits for the episode she was killed, then yanking the rug out from under her.  Damn, that was brutal.

Very interested to see what happens with Spike.  Giving him his soul back wasn't at all was I was expecting.  How the hell does he expect to worm his way back in after that attempted rape?

Starting Season 7 now.  I know there's a bunch of crossover with Angel, but I can't bring myself to put it off until I watch another 100 episodes of a different show.  So on we go...

P.S.  Asharak, nice work on this one:

Quote from: Asharak on November 24, 2011, 05:56:58 PM

Oh, and regarding your contention that the absence of Giles is a bad thing, I have only one thing to say: I'd like to test that theory.

 thumbsup thumbsup
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« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2011, 02:18:57 PM »

Haven't had much TV time but I managed to finish season one last night. My rememberer must be a little broke, need some help with the Angel / Darla relationship... and I guess we still need to use spoilers? This may stray into Angel's own series:

Spoiler for Darla:
I know I could google this but thought I would ask here. In the S1 episode where Buffy learns that Angel is a vampire, I don't remember Angel actually killing Darla to save Buffy. It was quite a shock as I would have sworn that Darla was the one that bears Angel's child. Or a child, in any case. Note, I'm not thinking of Conner and all that, but a pregnant Darla out in the rain allowing herself to be killed by Angel to save the child. What am I remembering?  icon_neutral
Also in the S1 episode where they help Cordellia with the invisible girl, she comes for help to Buffy and "her gang" or club, I believe she said. When do they start referring to themselves as Scoobies?
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« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2011, 02:34:07 PM »

Quote from: MonkeyFinger on November 27, 2011, 02:18:57 PM

Haven't had much TV time but I managed to finish season one last night. My rememberer must be a little broke, need some help with the Angel / Darla relationship... and I guess we still need to use spoilers? This may stray into Angel's own series:

Spoiler for Darla:
I know I could google this but thought I would ask here. In the S1 episode where Buffy learns that Angel is a vampire, I don't remember Angel actually killing Darla to save Buffy. It was quite a shock as I would have sworn that Darla was the one that bears Angel's child. Or a child, in any case. Note, I'm not thinking of Conner and all that, but a pregnant Darla out in the rain allowing herself to be killed by Angel to save the child. What am I remembering?  icon_neutral

Spoiler for Hiden:
She's resurrected in Angel by Wolfram & Hart.
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« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2011, 03:05:52 PM »

Ah... thanks TiLT.
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« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2011, 04:43:20 AM »

That's it.  Done.  Finished.  Finito.  Fin.  That's all folks.  A couple thoughts on Season 7 specifically: 
Spoiler for Hiden:

This was probably my least favorite season out of all of them, for a number of reasons:

- Never warmed up to the whole “army of whiny teenage girls” idea.  I half figured that Buffy's "ultimate plan" was to have them simply annoy The First to death.

- So the Scooby gang will follow Buffy unquestioningly through thick and thin for 7 years - no matter how bad the odds or how crazy the plan - yet they all decide to not only turn on her at the same time, but actually ask her to leave?   Ooooookay…  saywhat  Then when she shows back up, everything just automatically goes back to the way it was before.

-  I always found the Buffy/Spike relationship to be little more than creepy, even before the attempted rape.  Making him a “good guy” felt very forced, and while he and Buffy were great as enemies, they didn't have much chemistry as friends/lovers.  That said, seeing him go out a hero was pretty damn shiny.

- The only time Faith was interesting was when she was a bad guy.  Having her come back and try to play the “hero” just didn’t work at all.  I could also tell I was missing a lot by not having seen Angel.  Her appearance seemed very sudden and seemed to throw off the group dynamic.  And once again, my god she is a terrible actress.

-  Didn’t like Willow’s new girlfriend at all.  Part of what made the relationship with Tara so cool was the obvious connection they had.  Kennedy just seemed far too macho and in-your-face for Willow, which made the entire relationship seem very out of character for her.

-  Maybe I missed something, but why was The First able to manifest itself as Buffy?  They were very emphatic that it could only mimic people who were dead, so that never made sense to me.  Also found it more than a bit silly that Buffy is on death's door after getting stabbed one moment, then leaping across the rooftops of buildings the next.

-  Convenient that the ultimate magic tchotchke in the universe just happens to show up right before the end to make everything go boom.

The two bright spots were Fillion as Caleb (how that guy isn’t a huge Hollywood star is beyond me) and Woodside as Principal Wood.  Otherwise, I thought it was a kinda disappointing way to end a truly fantastic show. 

Weaknesses aside, this has probably become my favorite TV show of all time.   God damn, what a ride.  There is so much fantastic writing, so much amazing character development, so much awesome action, so many laugh-out-loud moments...I don't think anything can really beat it.  I was actually very sad to see the whole thing end, and am awfully glad I gave it a shot.  If I were to rank the seasons, I'd probably go 3, 2, 5, 4, 6, 1, 7.

Now I'm debating whether or not to start Angel right away, or give it a bit of a break.  Not sure I'm ready to dive into another 100+ episode show.
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« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2011, 04:57:41 AM »

Quote from: Grifman on October 28, 2011, 06:08:00 PM

Favorite moments, emotional highs/lows, great fights:

Spoiler for Hiden:
Buffy, having been tormented by dreams of the dead master who killed her (the first time), emotionally breaks down as she smashes his bones which has been gathered by a group of vamps seeking to resurrect him

The first appearance of Spike and Drusilla

Buffy, jumping to the top of a merchandise counter in the middle of a crowded a mall and using a rocket launcher against a powerful demon just arriving to launch his reign of terror, blowing him to bits (truly one of the most over the top moments in the show!)

Angelus killing Jenny Calendar​, totally unexpected (and she was so hot too!)

Angelus' surprise "gift" for Giles in his apartment after killing Jenny (this was so totally evil and depraved!)

Buffy's fight against Angelus, seemingly defeated, catching and stopping Angelus' sword in her bare hands, then going on to defeat him

Buffy having defeated Angelus, preparing to kill him to seal off a hell dimension, is forced to kill Angel instead as Willow's spell changes him back from Angelus

Spike and Joyce sharing an awkward moment in the den, when they realize they've met before when Joyce hit Spike with an axe in the head as he tried to attack Buffy smile

Buffy and Faith's knockdown drag out fight to the finish, second best fight of the show

The death of Buffy's mom

Buffy, with the Watcher's Council in town to assess her, tells them off and lays down the law - they work for her, not the other way around! (And Giles gets back pay in the deal! smile )

Buffy's tombstone: She saved the world - a lot

Buffy's fight with Dark Willow, third best fight of the show

Xander saves the world from Dark Willow with the only weapon he had . . . I love you, Willow . . .

Buffy, alone, after getting her ass kicked by the uber vamp. She looks horrible, eyes blackened, bruises on her face, a big gash on one side, puffy lips, the worst she's ever looked on the show after a fight. She's listening to her friends despairing of what to do . . . Buffy was our plan. There is no back up . . . She gets up, then marches in and give the gutsiest speech she ever gives on the show:

I'm beyond tired. I'm beyond scared. I'm standing on the mouth of hell, and it is gonna swallow me whole. And it'll choke on me. We're not ready? They're not ready. They think we're gonna wait for the end to come, like we always do. I'm done waiting. They want an apocalypse? Oh, we'll give 'em one. Anyone else who wants to run, do it now. 'Cause we just became an army. We just declared war. From now on, we won't just face our worst fears, we will seek them out. We will find them, and cut out their hearts one by one, until The First shows itself for what it really is. And I'll kill it myself. There is only one thing on this earth more powerful than evil, and that's us. Any questions?


Buffy, defeating the uber vamp, best fight of the entire show. I love this one because Buffy won this on sheer determination. Towards the end of the fight, after pretty much being beaten down, she's still standing there toe to toe with the uber vamp, trading blows, boom, boom, boom, neither one fazing the other until the uber vamp finally goes down, and then Buffy maneuvers into position to take it's head off with a garrote she's fashioned with wire. At the end she looks almost as bad as after her previous fight with the uber vamp, but the difference is this time she's alive and it's dead . . . Here endeth the lesson

Buffy losing her leadership of the Potentials after a disastrous initial foray against Caleb, the minion of the First. She was in total shock and disbelief, and then emotionally crushed because everyone, even her friends (except for Spike) and sister doubted her and turned against her when she wanted to attack again, realizing that Caleb was protecting something. In the end, she's proven right and has to rescue everyone (as usual) but she has to go through this crisis of leadership first.

This is a good list, I'd add a couple more:

Spoiler for Hiden:
-  The Spike/Buffy wedding episode.  Probably not as funny in hindsight (given what happens between them), but at the time it was utterly ridiculous.

- Tara getting shot.  They had done such a good job of making you feel like she was finally safe and one of the crew, then...bam, she's gone

-  Oz leaving.

-  Giles showing up to take on Dark Willow.

-  Kitten poker

-  The super-scary fear demon...that turned out to be 6 inches tall

-  Anya's fear of bunnies.  Actually, pretty much anything Anya said.  Sucked to see her go out like that.

When you watch it in one big marathon, it's tough to pick out specific episodes that stand out.  Everything kind of just blends together after a while.  That said, Hush, The Body, and Once More With Feeling were as good as TV gets.
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« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2011, 05:26:43 AM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 01, 2011, 04:43:20 AM

That's it.  Done.  Finished.  Finito.  Fin.  That's all folks.  A couple thoughts on Season 7 specifically: 
Spoiler for Hiden:
-  Maybe I missed something, but why was The First able to manifest itself as Buffy?  They were very emphatic that it could only mimic people who were dead, so that never made sense to me.  Also found it more than a bit silly that Buffy is on death's door after getting stabbed one moment, then leaping across the rooftops of buildings the next.
Spoiler for Hiden:
remember, Buffy was dead for awhile.  I'm also surprised you didn't mention the following (paraphrasing of course):

Xander:  where's Anya?
Andrew: she's dead.
Xander:  oh... let's go to the mall!
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« Reply #72 on: December 01, 2011, 12:19:21 PM »

Welcome to the club.  I'd head straight into Angel.  It's similar enough to Buffy that you'll like it, but it definitely has a darker vibe.
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« Reply #73 on: December 01, 2011, 03:34:16 PM »

Just heard James Marsters do an interview out of character.  Sounds so strange...I had no idea he wasn't actually British.
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« Reply #74 on: December 02, 2011, 06:58:10 AM »

Just watched up through the Halloween episode in Season 2, always liked that one. Spike and Drusilla are just warming up, Oz had a couple of appearances ("Who is that girl?") so far and I'm looking forward to (eventually) getting re-introduced to all the ladies - Dawn, Anya, Tara, Harmony & Faith.

And halloween is where we find out that our dear Rupert Giles has a dark past and a nickname. Too bad the spinoff that was planned for quite some time never materialized.  icon_frown
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« Reply #75 on: December 03, 2011, 02:51:21 PM »

Quote from: Chaz on December 01, 2011, 12:19:21 PM

Welcome to the club.  I'd head straight into Angel.  It's similar enough to Buffy that you'll like it, but it definitely has a darker vibe.

Just be forewarned that Angel has a couple of real clunkers in it's first half-season. Stick with it, though, because mixed in with them is some of the show's best stuff (the monologue at the beginning of "In the Dark" and the episode "I Will Remember You" are standouts) and the show really starts to hit its stride at about that halfway mark, with a few additions to the main/recurring cast, after which it stays more or less consistently awesome. That said, I don't blame anybody who chooses to believe that "I Fall to Pieces" doesn't exist.

Oh, and from the tenth episode of season one to the first episode of season four contains the single best TV character arc I've ever seen. And no, I don't mean Angel.

- Ash
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« Reply #76 on: December 03, 2011, 04:23:30 PM »

I don't think Angel ever quite gets to Buffy level awesome for more than a handful of episodes at a time, but it's worth watching.  We watched it in between Buffy seasons, and Buffy felt like the reward for doing so.

There are two characters that sort of shouldn't have existed, IMO:
Spoiler for Hiden:
Lorne is one.  Never cared for him at all.  However, without him, we wouldn't have Amy Acker who is just fantastic.  The other is Connor.  However, the episode that spawned him is one of Angel's best ever.  The show is really a mixed bag.

With Angel, there aren't a lot of episodes that stand out in my head
Spoiler for Hiden:
the puppet one being a major exception
, but there are some really great arcs that are a little bumpy.

Overall, I'm really glad I watched Angel, but when we go through Buffy again, I doubt we'll go through the spin-off another time.
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« Reply #77 on: December 03, 2011, 08:01:08 PM »

I've watched the first 3 episodes of Angel, and am kinda meh on it.  Does it move past the "case of the week" format?
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« Reply #78 on: December 03, 2011, 08:04:13 PM »

Quote from: Gratch on December 03, 2011, 08:01:08 PM

I've watched the first 3 episodes of Angel, and am kinda meh on it.  Does it move past the "case of the week" format?

it does.  season one is kind of rough, but things pick up in season two.  there are still a lot of unconnected cases, but there are things that go on in the background in most episodes that are part of a bigger arc.
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« Reply #79 on: December 03, 2011, 09:34:11 PM »

From what I recall, Season 4 almost killed Angel. Somehow they managed to get permission for one more (a final) season and they went out with a bang.  icon_wink
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