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Question:  How do you feel about the sunday skin thread?
+2) I truly enjoy them. I find myself looking forward to them (at least somewhat).
+1) I like them. They provide a nice distraction once in a while.
00) I don't read them / wouldn't miss them / ignore them / feel they don't belong here.
-1) I am a little disappointed when I see them.
-2) I am offended by them (to some degree).

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Author Topic: Sunday Skin Poll(redux) - Does it really belong here?  (Read 5132 times)
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« on: June 13, 2007, 07:13:42 PM »

Second attempt at this poll; the first one borked on me (Edit vote wasn't working).

I know this is Ron's house, and that Ron (and his lovely wife Laura) both contribute to the weekly Sunday Skin thread, but since we now have a contributing woman's perspective on the thread, I thought we should have a relatively anonymous gauge as to how they're perceived by GamingTrend.com's readers / lurkers / contributers. I'm referring to the average sunday skin (as posted by Knightshade Dragon), not some of the more extreme one's we've seen as of late.

Layout for this poll:

  • You are required to vote to see results.
  • No response to the thread is required, but I do ask that you contribute to the poll.
  • You can change your vote at any time.
  • Each user is allowed 2 votes to include a "shoulder surfer" like your significant other.
  • The poll is anonymous so I don't expect people to speak out unless they feel they want to.
  • This is not intended to step on anyone's toes; I thought it would be nice to see how people feel.
  • Turtles post in the Forum and Site Feedback is a discussion that spawned my interest in a poll.

Further to the last point, Turtle's post speaks specifically to driving away female demographic; this poll is targeted more to both male and female. The objectification of women is not necessarily offensive to JUST women, nor is it offensive to ALL women. This also doesn't really touch on the point ATB brought up with giving it it's own forum section.
 
For instance, Laura contributes to the collection of photos posted in the Sunday Skin. I've known a few men to not enjoy the blatant posting of women's pics for the purpose of oogling. This is just an anonymous poll to show support for and/or against.
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« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2007, 07:21:17 PM »

Didn't we just do this in the feedback forum?

Didn't we jsut do this in the feedback forum?
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2007, 07:22:00 PM »

No. Read my post before you repeat yourself.
I posted the poll here as this is where the Sunday Skin's land, and I'm not providing feedback on the site.

Turtles post speaks to driving away female demographic; the impact that a Sunday Skin thread has could contribute to a negative perception that extends beyond just women; software devs may steer clear if these threads were well-known.

Note that I said "COULD", as in possibly. Given that IGN has a girls channel I doubt that a dev would shut the door on GT because of that reason, but it does stand as a possibility; and I only cite this example to show that the scope is completely different than Turtles post. This isn't a GT issue; it's a forum user/lurker response to gauge impact on readership more than anything.

Oh, and I use it to validate my sense self. If I am not in the majority I might just cry myself to sleep tonight. Tongue
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2007, 07:53:16 PM »

I like them. If you dont then dont look at them.
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2007, 08:05:20 PM »

"I feel like they don't belong here" is given a neutral rating, and is on par with the "Meh, I don't care" option?
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2007, 08:13:56 PM »

Quote
I like them. If you dont then dont look at them.

+1, I'm offended that the Purge's inner feminist is even bringing this up!

On a serious note though, honestly, how hard is it to just ignore it? Just as good of an argument can be made about politics, some people don't like it. This IS the "OFF TOPIC" forum though and even though it's vast majority male, men or women who may get "offended" (I still don't see it) by the sunday skin posts can simply just ignore them, just as they can ignore any post they choose.. I don't get offended when I turn on WWE and see half naked wrestling dudes grappling with eachother, so I'm not going to write the WB and tell them I'm "offended" by it. If I was, I'd just change the channel to something else, just as someone can ignore a post and move on to the next one.

Next time, open up a poll asking who's offended by CeeKay's avatar! If we're going to start being all politically correct and getting "offended" by nature (ie, the human body) we mine as well start being equal opportunity offend-ees!
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2007, 08:55:16 PM »

I goofed on that.. the 00 shouldn't have the feel it doesn't belong here; it should be on the -1. :/ problem is, once I edit it it removes people ability to change the vote due to SMF's bug
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2007, 09:14:54 PM »


I like the SS. One of the responses,
Quote
I am a little disappointed when I see them.

 could be viewed in different ways ,though. For instance, I'm disappointed with the skanky goth look, so I'll scroll on down till I see something better.
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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2007, 09:29:33 PM »

So... Turtle's thread is about whether SS drives away women, and this thread is about whether SS drives away people in general, including, but not limited to, women.

I suppose reasonable minds could disagree, but I still say this thread is redundant.
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2007, 09:41:33 PM »

Quote from: Daehawk on June 13, 2007, 07:53:16 PM

I like them. If you dont then dont look at them.

+1.  Barring some addition to the CoC preventing the posting of pics of hot women I don't see them going away.  If Ron drops the torch then others will pick it up!  We shall not go quietly into night- today is our scantily clad day!!!!
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« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2007, 10:35:46 PM »

Here's what I posted once before in the first (not second or third) thread on this:

Quote
The current system leads to a couple of problems for me:

1) It's hard to moderate based on the CoC.  Does half a nipple count?  What about 3/4 of an ass crack?  The nature of the threads (and part of the fun) are to push the line.

2) I can't moderate it (or even look at it) at work and usually not at home either with three kids running around and my wife wondering why I'm checking out teh girlies on teh intarweb.

3) It kinda creates a locker room mentality which might be bothersome or just excluding to our female posters.  We don't have a lot of them - only Mytocles and Merian Moriarity come to mind but I'd hate to see them leave or others not show up because of it.

Throwing those out there, I really don't have a *major* problem with it.  I don't spend a lot of time checking them out but I don't see the harm for others to do it.  I'd like to have a forum where we have semi-equal numbers of males and females but I don't see that happening much.  If it did, or if we had a large(r) gay contingent here would we have a problem if people started posting "Sunday Skin Assless Chaps Ceekay Edition"?

Here's one more thought: we have several large threads already on this site so why not one large Sunday Skin thread that keeps getting updated weekly or however often people want to post in it?  That way it's all in one place and easy to find.  One-stop shopping?
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« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2007, 10:41:27 PM »

One large thread works for me, also, if female/male forum goers want to do a male version of the thread... more power to them.
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« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2007, 11:27:37 PM »

usually fully disappointed.  not enough manskin.  icon_frown

hot men have skin too! GIMME MANSKIN!  crybaby

i don't find the thread offensive, though.  i usually just ignore it for the abovestated reason. i don't care much for chickskin, so i occasionally give it a quick once-over and then ignore it.  i guess if i lived on the forum, i'd get tired of it a lot faster, but since i really only check in once in a while (unless i know there's something i'll be interested in talking about) it doesn't offend me all that much.

so just gimme the manskin, and i'll shut up and be happy for a bit.
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« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2007, 11:30:50 PM »

Quote
if we had a large(r) gay contingent here would we have a problem if people started posting "Sunday Skin Assless Chaps Ceekay Edition"?

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with that at all, simply because I woudln't click on it in the first place.

IMO the problem with a never-ending sunday skin post would be harder for us to keep our pics up, since most of us host them on our own website (photobucket,etc.) Whenever I contribute I usually leave the up for two weeks, then recycle them so I can put new pics up on my photobucket album. A thread that goes on forever would make it hard to keep it active and maintained, unless we're "borrowing" the pics from major websites already.

And Ceekay I believe you meant +2!
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« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2007, 12:47:56 AM »

Quote from: MerianMoriarty on June 13, 2007, 11:27:37 PM

so just gimme the manskin, and i'll shut up and be happy for a bit.

OK guys, get those cameras fired up and give the lady what she wants! icon_twisted
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« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2007, 12:48:49 AM »

Quote from: corruptrelic on June 13, 2007, 11:30:50 PM

And Ceekay I believe you meant +2!

I didn't read the whole thread before I responded  icon_redface
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« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2007, 01:12:55 AM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on June 13, 2007, 09:29:33 PM

So... Turtle's thread is about whether SS drives away women, and this thread is about whether SS drives away people in general, including, but not limited to, women.

I suppose reasonable minds could disagree, but I still say this thread is redundant.

Well, let me make another distinction for you:

The other is a discussion thread. THIS IS A POLL. smile

Allow me to repeat myself :
Quote
No response to the thread is required, but I do ask that you contribute to the poll.
and
Quote
This is just an anonymous poll to show support for and/or against.

Ooo, this flavor of medicine might be familiar to some ... if you don't like it, don't read it. Tongue

Now get back on topic.
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« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2007, 01:34:56 AM »

Regardless of how I feel about them specifically, I always question wether they truly belong on a gaming forum that is open to all ages.
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« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2007, 02:16:45 AM »

Actually this is an off topic forum, and the posts are clearly labeled.
And even if they weren't, it's not like there's any nudity or anything. We should probably start locking up all the swimsuit sports illustrated, maxim, stuff magazines off of the magazine racks at places like Borders and Barnes and Noble, since those magazines are open and viewable to all ages as well.
Or if you don't like the magazine, you can go one row over and look at the gardening/floweirng (or whatever floats your boat) magaiznes instead. I see no reason why the same shouldn't apply here as well.

Btw this post is not directed at anyone in particular, I just fail to see how anyone, male or female, could possibly be "offended" by a post they don't have to read, let alone even click on.
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« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2007, 02:51:07 AM »

I'm not offended by the threads, but I never read them.  There are other sites if I'm in the mood for that kinda thing.  But that's how I view my own feelings on the matter: if people like them, it's completely fine with me.  Having a pic thread isn't taking money out of my wallet.
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« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2007, 07:16:12 AM »

Quote from: Arkon on June 14, 2007, 01:34:56 AM

Regardless of how I feel about them specifically, I always question wether they truly belong on a gaming forum that is open to all ages.
OH, ARKON, really now!  I don't know how you feel about women either, but I do think we should be allowed to belong on the forum!

Okay, I knew what he meant, lol, but I do love to tease people, and couldn't let it pass, lmao!

I voted in the last category, and I don't mind saying so.. because it was a choice that allowed me to say that I am offended by the threads "to some degree" - I'm certainly not horribly offended, and I agree that I could just ignore them (btw, I do, lol, except to check when threads like this appear, to remind myself what everyone is talking about).  However - and this is on me really  -  I also tend to associate the Sun-Skin post with the other one that is punctuated by rather slutty pictures (um... part of the title is Having Fun, I think?)  On that one, I got as far as the splayed naked woman on the car hood, and just wasn't much interested in visiting that thread again.  It is my own linking of the two - and disinterest in the Sunday WOMEN's Skin topic that has led me to conclude that the locker room isn't always for me.  But then again, i'm not young, and tend to agree with DBT on the fact that this is something Young'uns Tend to Do (sorry DBT - probably goofed your quote because I'm going on memory!)

I will not quit coming to my Favorite Game Forum because of a disagreement over these threads, or that the threads exist, I'm just saying, I don't much like some of them, and maybe other women wouldn't either. 

Also, you could easily start a poll on whether you actually care if women visit this site or not.  Some of the comments in the various threads do make me wonder if some of you would be just as happy.... or happier....with an Old Boy's Club like the Good Ol' Days.  Just sayin' ...

I, for one, am proud to be a long-standing member of GamingTrend;  I think Ron has done an incredible job in making the site what it is today, and I truly appreciate the moderators and the "behind the scenes folks" - and the members, as well -  who keep it going to, and staying at,  the lofty level that it has attained.  For that, I thank you all!  Yes, even Purge....  icon_twisted
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« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2007, 08:33:47 AM »

I don't see any harm in the SS thread.  It's in Off Topic and clearly labelled what it is. 
I think people coming here know it's going to be a heavy percentage of males.  In my mind, if I was hanging out at a mostly female site and there was a Hunky Man thread, I'd just stay out of the thread and let them have their fun.
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« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2007, 12:57:37 PM »

Doesn't bother me in the least, although Ron and I have different tastes in women most weeks.   Others have said almost all my thoughts so I won't repeat them again. 
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« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2007, 02:43:48 PM »

I'm interested in seeing how this plays out.  I'll give it to this Sunday and we'll see then. 
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« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2007, 07:53:39 PM »

TTIWWP
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« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2007, 11:14:20 PM »

What's next after banning sunday skin?  No more joke threads because they are offensive to some people?  Should we not discuss games with half naked women in them because they are offensive?  How about games with guns?  Are those bad to bring up and discuss because they upset some people? 

Censorship just annoys me.  If you don't like a post, then don't read it.  People need to learn to be more tolerant and accepting instead of forcing others to live by what they deem acceptable.

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« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2007, 11:51:24 PM »

I'm neutral.  I don't pay much attention to those threads, but they don't bother me.
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« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2007, 01:37:05 AM »

I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to even comprehend the point of view of people who don't find Sunday Skin appropriate.  Would you be also be okay if a mod posted a weekly erotic story?  You don't have to click on it, they're just words, etc.  Is it really so difficult to see how a weekly, "Hey guys, let's get aroused together!" thread is different than a thread talking about games with guns, or how wanting softcore porn left out of a gaming forum is different than being offended by the human body?

I mean jeez, I'm pro-choice but it's not exactly a struggle to at least see where the pro-life people are coming from.

For the record, I'm not personally offended by the skin, it just seems unprofessional to have as a site-sponsored weekly feature.  It's a step away from having a "Babes of the Week" button on the front page.  If Ron wants the place to feel more like Maxim, I guess it's appropriate, I just always got the impression he wanted the site to be fairly family friendly.
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« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2007, 01:57:56 AM »

Quote
For the record, I'm not personally offended by the skin, it just seems unprofessional to have as a site-sponsored weekly feature.  It's a step away from having a "Babes of the Week" button on the front page.  If Ron wants the place to feel more like Maxim, I guess it's appropriate, I just always got the impression he wanted the site to be fairly family friendly.

My thoughts exactly.  It just seems to be out of place on a site that's otherwise professional and well run.
[/quote]
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« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2007, 02:10:25 AM »

Quote from: Scott on June 14, 2007, 11:14:20 PM

What's next after banning sunday skin?  No more joke threads because they are offensive to some people?  Should we not discuss games with half naked women in them because they are offensive?  How about games with guns?  Are those bad to bring up and discuss because they upset some people?

Slippery slopes are fun!  Whee!

Quote from: Scott on June 14, 2007, 11:14:20 PM

Censorship just annoys me.  If you don't like a post, then don't read it.  People need to learn to be more tolerant and accepting instead of forcing others to live by what they deem acceptable.

If you check out the Code of Conduct you'll find lots of things that aren't okay here.  We're pretty far away from the freewheeling Wild West here.
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« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2007, 02:40:29 AM »

Quote from: wonderpug on June 15, 2007, 01:37:05 AM

For the record, I'm not personally offended by the skin, it just seems unprofessional to have as a site-sponsored weekly feature.  It's a step away from having a "Babes of the Week" button on the front page.  If Ron wants the place to feel more like Maxim, I guess it's appropriate, I just always got the impression he wanted the site to be fairly family friendly.

Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Step away? Please. They are posted in an off topic forum, most of the stuff posted here is unproffesional, silly, funny, etc.

The site is family friendly. The forum is most definitely adult, and not because of one Sunday post. I see quite a few threads I wouldn't think people would want their kids reading.

Do we really judge websites by their forums? I love Gamspot, can't stand their forums. Same with Penny Arcade. I could probably find another 100 examples. These threads have nothing to do with the front page, and I think it's safe to say they never will. In fact hopefully soon we will be able to comment on the front page on articles without even entering the forums.

Anyway, the poll is pretty clear, the vast majority like the threads, or just ignore it.
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« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2007, 03:34:44 AM »

Quote from: Lee on June 15, 2007, 02:40:29 AM

Anyway, the poll is pretty clear, the vast majority like the threads, or just ignore it.

As I see it, there's 64 votes for support; 45 against/ indifferent.

I'd couple the 0's with the negatives as they're not really seeing any value in them. (that and 00 has a negative slant "don't belong"; i screwed up and dare not edit the poll as SMF is buggy with polls)
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« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2007, 03:52:41 AM »

Well if we go off your points system, it's 90-30. smile
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« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2007, 04:26:52 AM »

Quote from: Lee on June 15, 2007, 03:52:41 AM

Well if we go off your points system, it's 90-30. smile

and since Purge fucked up on the 00's they shouldn't count for the grand total anyways.  Giving them both a neutral AND negative stance is pretty shady  ninja  besides, as I said, unless there's a change to the CoC the idea in question will continue  icon_wink
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« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2007, 04:39:33 AM »

Quote from: Lee on June 15, 2007, 02:40:29 AM

Quote from: wonderpug on June 15, 2007, 01:37:05 AM

For the record, I'm not personally offended by the skin, it just seems unprofessional to have as a site-sponsored weekly feature.  It's a step away from having a "Babes of the Week" button on the front page.  If Ron wants the place to feel more like Maxim, I guess it's appropriate, I just always got the impression he wanted the site to be fairly family friendly.
Wow, talk about jumping to conclusions. Step away? Please. They are posted in an off topic forum, most of the stuff posted here is unproffesional, silly, funny, etc.

Not so much a conclusion as it is an opinion.  The site owner, every week, posts a series of girly pics.  We have forumers who anticipate them every Sunday, and who notice if they're gone for a day.  Surely we have lurkers who also make a habit of looking at the pics every Sunday.  I don't think it's that much of a stretch to call it a feature of the site, it's content provided by the site staff on a scheduled basis.

Quote
The site is family friendly. The forum is most definitely adult, and not because of one Sunday post. I see quite a few threads I wouldn't think people would want their kids reading.
Our forumers are mostly adults, but are the forums intended to be adult only?  Ron doesn't like excessive swearing or nipples, so there's a line somewhere.  I don't remember anything in the forum registration asking if I was over 18.

Quote
Do we really judge websites by their forums? I love Gamspot, can't stand their forums. Same with Penny Arcade. I could probably find another 100 examples. These threads have nothing to do with the front page, and I think it's safe to say they never will. In fact hopefully soon we will be able to comment on the front page on articles without even entering the forums.
You wouldn't think any differently of Gamespot if they opened up a forum section to submit amateur porn?  Of course a site owner is responsible for what they allow in their forums, don't be silly.  There's a reason Ron has a code of conduct and moderators enforcing it.  You yourself posted in ATB's original thread that you thought "a dedicated skin forum would reflect on the GT site itself."  My similar opinion is that a skin thread posted on a regular basis by the site owner reflects on the GT site itself.

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Anyway, the poll is pretty clear, the vast majority like the threads, or just ignore it.
So the majority of people who have not been driven away by the locker mentality have voted that a locker mentality will not drive them away.  That's pretty convincing.

Again, I don't personally have a problem with the threads.  I look at them, as do I look at the NSFW round robin thread at OO.  The difference is that OO is just trying to be a hangout, not a professional gaming site.  IGN is a gaming site with a Babes Channel, and I do think that makes IGN more of a Maxim style gaming site.  Gamespot, as far as I know, does not have a section for girly pictures, and sure enough, to me that makes them more professional.
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Lee
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« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2007, 04:50:11 AM »

One point though Wonderpug, I don't see anyone trying to make it an official thing. It's a weekly thread (if that) not a whole forum. Yeah having a skin forum would reflect on the site. A casual weekly post isn't quite the same thing.

And no it's not required that you be 18 here, but look at many of the threads in off topic, they are very adult orientated. That's all my point was.
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Jarrodhk
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« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2007, 06:14:32 AM »

It isn't like the threads aren't labeled as not safe for work either.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2007, 12:30:55 PM »

And I find the political threads "unprofessional".

And the Jessica Alba threads.

And the This is Fun 52 page thread

And the Indy Jones thread

And the 100 hottest lesbians thread

And yet another Paris Hilton thread

And blah blah blah blah

In fact, the whole forum is unprofessional.  Let's shut it down!  Shut it down, bitches!  Shut it down!    crybaby



(hey, if I managed to get the Looking Glass forums shut down, maybe I can try the same thing here)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 12:32:56 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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Laner
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« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2007, 01:26:28 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on June 15, 2007, 12:30:55 PM

And I find the political threads "unprofessional".

And the Jessica Alba threads.

And the This is Fun 52 page thread

And the Indy Jones thread

And the 100 hottest lesbians thread

And yet another Paris Hilton thread

And blah blah blah blah

In fact, the whole forum is unprofessional.  Let's shut it down!  Shut it down, bitches!  Shut it down!    crybaby
Maybe you missed the part where the site owner doesn't start all those threads you mentioned on a weekly basis.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2007, 01:57:03 PM »

Quote from: Laner on June 15, 2007, 01:26:28 PM


Maybe you missed the part where the site owner doesn't start all those threads you mentioned on a weekly basis.

Maybe you missed the part where it's the site owner and he can do any damn thing he wants.

Sorry, I find the whole "Ron should censor himself even more than the average poster here" argument beyond bewildering.  You'd have a much stronger argument that perhaps the threads themselves should be outside the CoC.  But to suggest that the site owner shouldn't have the same permissions (almost used the word "rights", but then we'd get into the whole "there are no rights on a private forum sidetrack) as a normal user is ludicrous.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2007, 02:09:43 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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