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Author Topic: [TV] The Walking Dead Season 6 (Careful there will be Spoilers!)  (Read 3570 times)
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Jimmy the Fish
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« Reply #80 on: March 28, 2016, 09:33:57 PM »

As Rittchard points out, the second half of this season has been royally frustrating with all the illogical and reckless behavior displayed by characters who should know better. I guess the writers want to show how becoming over-confident and comfortable in their situation results in questionable decisions but it goes against everything that they have been doing the last 5 seasons for the most part. The group stupidity is jarring from a viewer standpoint. It was almost like a Benny Hill chase skit watching half the regular cast go chasing after Carol and Daryl.

Maybe it was just me but did it feel like that last voice over at the very end was tacked on? Almost like after the producers saw how much commotion resulted from Glenn's infamous dumpster "death" they wanted to put that last line in to make sure internet fandom doesn't have a collective brain hemorrhage.

As for who gets the bat at next week, my money is on Daryl or Glenn. Still not convinced Carol will be whacked because despite her new found angst, she is still the most complex character out of the three and I feel there is still more to explore about the character. Daryl seems obvious but since he is not in the comic, it might be too appealing to the writers to keep him around to give them freedom to write whatever they want with him. I still think Glenn is a likely candidate for the obvious comic book parallels.

I really doubt Rick, Michonne, or Carl are in danger. I can't remember where I saw it but I recall Kirkman saying that the the whole Walking Dead comic story is really about those three characters. Everything revolves around them. I wouldn't expect them to stray from that basic premise in the show.
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« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2016, 05:29:26 AM »

Quote from: Jimmy the Fish on March 28, 2016, 09:33:57 PM

As Rittchard points out, the second half of this season has been royally frustrating with all the illogical and reckless behavior displayed by characters who should know better. I guess the writers want to show how becoming over-confident and comfortable in their situation results in questionable decisions but it goes against everything that they have been doing the last 5 seasons for the most part. The group stupidity is jarring from a viewer standpoint. It was almost like a Benny Hill chase skit watching half the regular cast go chasing after Carol and Daryl.

Maybe it was just me but did it feel like that last voice over at the very end was tacked on? Almost like after the producers saw how much commotion resulted from Glenn's infamous dumpster "death" they wanted to put that last line in to make sure internet fandom doesn't have a collective brain hemorrhage.

As for who gets the bat at next week, my money is on Daryl or Glenn. Still not convinced Carol will be whacked because despite her new found angst, she is still the most complex character out of the three and I feel there is still more to explore about the character. Daryl seems obvious but since he is not in the comic, it might be too appealing to the writers to keep him around to give them freedom to write whatever they want with him. I still think Glenn is a likely candidate for the obvious comic book parallels.

I really doubt Rick, Michonne, or Carl are in danger. I can't remember where I saw it but I recall Kirkman saying that the the whole Walking Dead comic story is really about those three characters. Everything revolves around them. I wouldn't expect them to stray from that basic premise in the show.

I also felt they did the voice in post.

It's so clear that someone is going, and the buzz is out there that Glenn took the beating in the book (even for those of us who didn't read the comics), plus the consensus is that it'll be Glenn or Daryl, so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone out of left field.
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Punisher
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« Reply #82 on: March 29, 2016, 01:36:05 PM »

My wife's birthday is on Sunday and she has stated that she will not watch Sunday's episode until Monday so that her birthday isn't ruined.
She already knows that I know something is coming up, but I couldn't honestly say to who.. There is enough divergence from the comic to make it anybodies guess...
Daryl isn't in the comic, Carol has been gone from the comic for a while now, as mentioned, Glenn gets it in the comic, etc...
I am thinking it has to be Glenn, Daryl, Carol, or Abraham.. by the end of the episode they are at a point in the comic where all 4 are already gone...
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rittchard
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« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2016, 02:42:58 AM »

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?!??!?!?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm can you say biggest copout ever?????  It was like the best porn build up ever with no release lol.  I guess the good news is no one is actually dead yet.  The bad news is we have to wait an eternity and the impact will be gone.  Bad decision for the show, IMHO. 
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« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2016, 02:49:26 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on April 04, 2016, 02:42:58 AM

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?!??!?!?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm can you say biggest copout ever?????  It was like the best porn build up ever with no release lol.  I guess the good news is no one is actually dead yet.  The bad news is we have to wait an eternity and the impact will be gone.  Bad decision for the show, IMHO. 
Yes. My wife was cursing up a storm over that..(I convinced her to watch even though she didn't want to ruin her birthday)
This is going to be a horrible 7 months...
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disarm
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« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2016, 03:00:12 AM »

Quote from: rittchard on April 04, 2016, 02:42:58 AM

WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT?!?!??!?!?

Spoiler for Hiden:
Ummm can you say biggest copout ever?????  It was like the best porn build up ever with no release lol.  I guess the good news is no one is actually dead yet.  The bad news is we have to wait an eternity and the impact will be gone.  Bad decision for the show, IMHO. 
Spoiler for Hiden:
Someone is most definitely dead, it's just a mystery who took the beatdown from Lucille. While the cliffhanger kind of stinks, Scott Gimple (show runner) actually gave an interesting reason for it on Talking Dead. This half season has told a story of Rick's people encountering the Saviors, and reached its pinnacle tonight when they met Negan. The instant Negan kills one of the group, the whole story changes. Nothing is the same for Rick and his people. This season's story is complete now that they know who (and what) Negan really is, and when the show returns, that death is the beginning of a whole new story for the core characters.

Yes, leaving the audience hanging until October is a little cruel, but they felt that seeing which character dies and any reaction to it is part of the new story that begins next season. Personally, I don't really mind. It's not like knowing the target just before going to credits would really change anything.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2016, 03:42:28 AM »

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Seriously, this whole episode was milking it.  The entire thing was a tease with no release whatsoever.

That reasoning about the death starting the next part of the story is bullshit.  The death ends this part, then they know and the world is changed.  The next part is into the changed world.  This is just no resolution whatsoever.  I expect better from these guys.  This is just terrible.

I would say it's as bad as the Sopranos, but that was a series ender, and we will get some resolution.  It's closer to the non-reveal of the hatch at the end of Lost's first season, but that didn't bother me nearly as much because it's not like everything happening in the season was about that hatch.  It was just one facet.

This whole half season was not about Rick encountering the Saviors.  It was about the build up to who Negan was and what he can do.  The saviors were just the delivery system that lead to Negan.  And then we didn't get the payoff.  It wasn't "The Last Day on Earth" for anyone.  Boo.

On the plus side, I'm excited that Trevor from GTA V is the second in command.
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naednek
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« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2016, 05:38:33 AM »

"On the plus side, I'm excited that Trevor from GTA V is the second in command."
Ok, that made me chuckle.

I liked the episode.  Tense and suspenseful, and major character building
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2016, 03:20:22 PM »

Quote from: naednek on April 04, 2016, 05:38:33 AM

"On the plus side, I'm excited that Trevor from GTA V is the second in command."
Ok, that made me chuckle.

I liked the episode.  Tense and suspenseful, and major character building

Just in case folks don't know, that really is him.

I wanted to see how I'd feel after a night's sleep, and I'm still pretty irritated.

I'm remembering quotes from the cast about how they were feeling sick to their stomachs filming the episode.  Of course, now I realize that this may be because they headed into the filming hiatus not knowing if they'd have a steady paycheck when they returned.  Carl posted this on twitter:

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‏@chandlerriggs
if it makes you feel any better i still don't know who got killed and it's been like 6 months since i read the script

That's got to suck. 
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Punisher
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« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2016, 06:25:04 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 04, 2016, 03:20:22 PM

Quote
‏@chandlerriggs
if it makes you feel any better i still don't know who got killed and it's been like 6 months since i read the script

No Carl... It doesn't make me feel any better.. Tongue

I'd say Carl and Rick are the only 2 that would be considered super safe so he should be fine.
I wonder how that is going to work for the rest though.. do they show up for work one day and get told "Oh, you didn't get the memo?"
at this point in the comics we know who gets it, but comics wise there is a lot of canon fodder available as there are multiple people that are gone from the comics by now (or not even in them)
IIRC in the comics, this scene only had 4-5 people in it.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2016, 06:43:24 PM »

I forgot one of the main reasons I came back in here.

I read a very interesting theory somewhere (some recap I can't be bothered to find now) that JSS Girl (had to look: Enid), who has been wandering alone into the woods for months and has mostly seemed hostile to the Alexandrians for taking care of her, may be a Savior herself.  This would give the timing of the roadblocks a bit more logic if their departure was orchestrated.  It also means that she's been playing Maggie and, in fact, poisoned her.

I don't know that they're going to do this, as she did seem to be honestly turning around and does seem to care about Carl, but it sure would make her a more interesting character.
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Jimmy the Fish
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« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2016, 08:22:01 PM »

This was the most unstisfying season thus far. Between the nonsense with Glenn "dying/haha fooled you", the neutering of Carol, the incessant "you have a choice" pacifism of Morgan, and just unbelievable acts/decisions of stupidity by a collection of characters who should know better, the cliffhanger ending was the pinnacle of everything that sucked about the season. The explanation by Gimple and Kirkman during the aftershow was an insult to the people who have been watching since season 1. The show's success has really deluded them where their ability to tell the story has taken a back seat to their desire to be clever.

The only faint saving grace for me was Jeffrey Dean Morgan's portrayal of Negan. His dialogue is well written and he is such a charismatic and interesting character that I do want to see more of him. As for who was on the receiving end of Lucille, I could care less at this point, and social media being what it is, the whole world will know long before the next episode airs, so screw you Gimple and Kirkman. finger
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2016, 09:07:14 PM »

Well, I don't agree with most of that, and in fact, I thought the season was so satisfying that this finale was a sharp disappointment.  As mentioned earlier, they earned the Glenn thing, IMO, but you can get away with something like that once.  It was cheap to pull it again with Daryl (which is probably why they seemed to add the "You'll be all right" comment in post production), but this was out of line.

I've really enjoyed Carol's shift.  She was building to a snap of some sort, and I wasn't expecting the break to go this way.  Teaming her with Morgan for a little Kung Fu trekking could be interesting (though I don't always think they've written Morgan well, I do like the message he's trying to bring, and I think it's important for TWD).
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« Reply #93 on: April 05, 2016, 02:53:59 AM »

I didn't realize how much I resented being manipulated this season until the very end of the finale, when I realized how little I care. We knew someone was going to buy the farm. Now they are going to make me wait 6 months to find out who? Screw you...I don't care who shot JR.

I'll be back next season because I'm hooked, but I won't spend 6 months arguing over clues and speculating. Whatevs.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2016, 04:31:16 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on April 05, 2016, 02:53:59 AM

I didn't realize how much I resented being manipulated this season until the very end of the finale, when I realized how little I care. We knew someone was going to buy the farm. Now they are going to make me wait 6 months to find out who? Screw you...I don't care who shot JR.

I'll be back next season because I'm hooked, but I won't spend 6 months arguing over clues and speculating. Whatevs.

Classiest (yet still snipey) address of this was in a NYT recap I saw.

Quote
I'll mention here that I don't have a theory about who got it in the end, mostly because I don't feel compelled to reward the gamesmanship by playing along.
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« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2016, 06:22:31 PM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 04, 2016, 09:07:14 PM

Well, I don't agree with most of that, and in fact, I thought the season was so satisfying that this finale was a sharp disappointment.  As mentioned earlier, they earned the Glenn thing, IMO, but you can get away with something like that once.  It was cheap to pull it again with Daryl (which is probably why they seemed to add the "You'll be all right" comment in post production), but this was out of line.

I've really enjoyed Carol's shift.  She was building to a snap of some sort, and I wasn't expecting the break to go this way.  Teaming her with Morgan for a little Kung Fu trekking could be interesting (though I don't always think they've written Morgan well, I do like the message he's trying to bring, and I think it's important for TWD).

I'm totally in line with Bullwinkle here.  I loved this season in general, pretty much every episode had me on the seat of my pants.  Yes, the characters did some irritating things that didn't make "sense" but all in all I think they followed thru with some of their big themes very well.  I read a review in the LA Times which had similar complaints about the characters' actions being "unrealistic" but I think that's always been a central part of this show: there is NO way for anyone to flat out declare what is "realistic" or not in an apocalyptic situation so extreme, where your son has to kill his mother and then gets his eye shot out, where you have to bite into someone's face to keep your son from getting gang raped.  By all accounts anyone still alive in this world is pretty much "crazy" (at least a little) by normal standards because there's no other way to cope/survive.  This arc had the group going from the vast extremes of being "out there" to the comforts of sex in the shower, and that gave them a sense of safety and overconfidence that they hadn't had in years.  So much so that some of them, like Carol, start to question the morality of doing anything to survive, and literally are breaking down mentally over that.  And others like Rick/Carl start to think they are invincible.  So really they did need to get taken down a peg or two.  They are lucky the Saviors didn't just wipe them all out, as they clearly have the numbers to do so.

All that said, I didn't buy the producers/writers excuse about the "cliffhanger" and how the story doesn't begin til next season.  I have major doubts this was the way they always planned it, I suspect they changed their mind or couldn't decide what to do.  I wonder if they had decided earlier on swapping in Daryl to die, but after seeing the reactions to Glenn they were afraid to alienate fans too severely.  Or they figured with the delay, the impact of whoever dies would be lessened.  Particularly if it's one of the lesser characters like Rosita or Aaron.  What I did like that they said was that they know they owe the audience something really spectacular to justify this decision, so come October they had really better deliver. 
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« Reply #96 on: April 06, 2016, 08:19:49 AM »

They should have given Maggie some ibuprofen and stayed home. TWD logic is - weird.
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Bullwinkle
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« Reply #97 on: April 06, 2016, 01:55:14 PM »

Quote from: Crusis on April 06, 2016, 08:19:49 AM

They should have given Maggie some ibuprofen and stayed home. TWD logic is - weird.

While I agree that they've made some stupid decisions this season, that wasn't one of them.  The pregnant lady was very sick.  You go to find the doctor.  They'd travelled to the place before, and we didn't even see the trip, really, which implies it was a (relatively) easy journey.

As for other dumb mistakes (like the one that would have avoided the trip all together), I'd like to say that they're trying to chalk it up to the gang getting complacent.  That's definitely been a through line for this half season.  However, they didn't really connect the complacency to the dumb mistakes in the writing, so it seems they just needed certain beats to happen in the story.   So in the end, yeah, dumb mistakes.

But apart from this terrible last episode (and really just the last moment of the last episode...the stuff getting there was pretty good, I thought), I thought they mostly upped their game this season.  And so, I've been letting the dumb mistakes go.  Filling in the complacency stuff as we went along.
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rittchard
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« Reply #98 on: April 07, 2016, 10:48:23 PM »

This article expresses well how I felt about the finale:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/why-is-the-walking-deads-cliffhanger-so-much-worse-than-1769625643

I guess it's partly my own fault for reading all the interviews, etc. that created the expectation that someone would be definitively leaving the show after the finale.  I suppose if I had no knowledge of the comic books and had not followed any media, that ending might be considered an exciting cliffhanger. 
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« Reply #99 on: April 08, 2016, 01:51:58 AM »

Put me down in the camp that didn't care for any of this half season.  I guess I'm tuning out on the show, when I watch it now I fast forward past the "oh zombie attack, will Carol/Rick/Daryl/etc. fight it off?"  Of course they will and why spend time watching what you know will happen?  While watching the final scene I was wondering who be killed and realized it really didn't matter to me at all, I've lost connection with any of the main characters and their stories.  I'm sure I'll check out the next season but I'll be watching this hour long show in something like 10 minutes of actual time and the rest at fast forward.
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« Reply #100 on: April 19, 2016, 07:26:04 PM »

I just read a Cracked article called 5 Movie And TV Plots That Mean The Writer's Out Of Ideas

The first entry was for "Plots That Are Essentially Clickbait," and I thought this phrase summed it up really well:

Quote
...it's the plot version of "YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHO JUST DIED! CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT!" Cliff-hangers are about "What happens next?" -- not "What just happened?" If your story is worth telling, you don't have to do that shit.
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« Reply #101 on: April 20, 2016, 05:40:18 PM »

I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt.  If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night.  While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl).  Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that.  (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.)  Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory). 
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« Reply #102 on: April 20, 2016, 05:52:45 PM »

Quote from: rittchard on April 20, 2016, 05:40:18 PM

I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt.  If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night.  While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl).  Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that.  (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.)  Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory). 

It's not that they ran out of ideas.  It's that they didn't want to commit to a decision, which is just as waffly and lame.

I'm guessing that they knew it would piss people off only after already having filmed it and showed it to people (including, likely, a focus group), which is why they scrambled to justify it on Talking Dead.

However, especially given how the cast were going on and on about how awful it was to film, it does seem completely plausible that not only did the original script have a character locked in, but that they may have even filmed it, then had second thoughts or, as you say, had an actor want to back out which changed things.

OTOH, Chandler's twitter comment makes that less likely, but maybe he worded it carefully or was kept in the dark.

Or maybe they filmed multiple possible endings (seems unlikely given the special effects expense, but maybe they thought it was worth it for the secrecy).

None of these possibilities change the fact that it was a terrible decision.
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« Reply #103 on: April 21, 2016, 12:15:29 AM »

Quote from: Bullwinkle on April 20, 2016, 05:52:45 PM

Quote from: rittchard on April 20, 2016, 05:40:18 PM

I don't think the writers ran out of ideas or did it deliberately as a ratings stunt.  If anything, they knew it would piss people off so they made sure they were ready to do immediate damage control on Talking Dead the same night.  While I suspect we will never know exactly what transpired, I still believe the original script had a specific person dying (probably Daryl).  Then after they saw the rabid reaction to Glenn's death tease, they might have changed their minds and gone back to re-negotiate and re-plan things for next season, or something like that.  (Incidentally, interesting that all of a sudden the actor has his own show riding bikes across the country.)  Who knows, maybe one of the key actors themselves volunteered off the show at the very end and that changed things up (for example, see my Michonne theory). 

It's not that they ran out of ideas.  It's that they didn't want to commit to a decision, which is just as waffly and lame.

I'm guessing that they knew it would piss people off only after already having filmed it and showed it to people (including, likely, a focus group), which is why they scrambled to justify it on Talking Dead.

However, especially given how the cast were going on and on about how awful it was to film, it does seem completely plausible that not only did the original script have a character locked in, but that they may have even filmed it, then had second thoughts or, as you say, had an actor want to back out which changed things.

OTOH, Chandler's twitter comment makes that less likely, but maybe he worded it carefully or was kept in the dark.

Or maybe they filmed multiple possible endings (seems unlikely given the special effects expense, but maybe they thought it was worth it for the secrecy).

None of these possibilities change the fact that it was a terrible decision.

Agreed!  I heard the main producer lady has also claimed she doesn't know who it is.  But as you said, it's plausible that's just because they changed or didn't film the original ending, or they are in the middle of re-negotiating contracts and leaving all options open. 
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