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Author Topic: Star Trek DS9  (Read 1983 times)
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Ironrod
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« on: April 27, 2010, 09:43:51 PM »

We watched part of DS9 when it originally aired. Didn't like any of the characters -- least of all Captain Emo, his whiny kid, and the cheese-grater-nose lady with the victim complex. The stories were lame and their "ship" never went anywhere. We gave up on it shortly after they stopped doing stand-alone episodes and turned it into a serial. I don't think we had a VCR yet, or maybe we just forgot to tape it a few times. Anyway, watching it sporadically didn't work. It probably didn't help that we were rooting for the snakeheads because the cheese-grater-noses are so annoying.

Conventional wisdom, as you know, says that DS9 was the best ST series. Two friends whose opinions I normally respect concur. So, being in the mood to watch another sf series on DVD, we recently started getting the disks from Netflix. After seeing the pilot and the first four episodes, my original opinion is unchanged. I am not wrapped up in the setting or the story, I don't like any of the characters, and while I don't exactly dread the next disk's arrival, I'm not looking forward to it, either.

Other shows that I liked started out weak, too. The first season of Babylon 5 was awful. The Sarah Connor Chronicles didn't find its groove until its last season. Stargate Universe is just starting to hit a stride. V...well, I think V is a lost cause, but I still have some vestige of hope. A netflix customer review of DS9 recommends skipping directly to season 2 disk 5. I assume that that's when it turns into a serial...which is about the time that we abandoned it back in the day. So...does the series ever get past the war between the cheese-grater noses and the snakeheads, or is that all it's got going for it? (Use spoiler tags where appropriate, please).

Let the arguing commence.
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« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2010, 09:52:19 PM »

Yeah, DS9 started out very, very slow and quickly built up to one of the better Treks.  Just power through this and you should be fine.
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« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2010, 09:59:29 PM »

DS9 and Bablyon 5 both start really slow. First couple of DS9 and first season of B5 are really weak, but by the 3rd season both are in their stride and start to kick ass.
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« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2010, 10:23:25 PM »

I never got over hating the Bajorans and Kira..neither will you smile
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« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2010, 10:26:17 PM »

From the first season, you must watch the opening episode to set up the wormhole aliens. Then pretty much skip everything until the last two episodes of the season (mostly for Duet, but the season finale does have some key plot points that they build on). Otherwise, they're all pretty much a waste. A few of them are fun and build up characters but I don't think any of them are referenced story-wise again. You'd probably want to watch any episodes featuring Garak, and maybe Gul Dukat, but that's about all that's worth while.

For the second season - 14 year old me recommends The Circle three parter. 31 year old me questions 14 year old me's taste but I remember really enjoying these episodes. Then it was the Maquis two-parter. That was when Deep Space Nine really got going for me. Crossover introduces the mirror universe back into Star Trek and was a lot of fun. And of course, the final episode of season 2 introduces the Dominion, which is when the series gets exciting.

Season three through seven are when the show becomes truly fantastic. The change in direction (they clearly didn't have a plan when they started) really saved the show. The best episode of all of Star Trek comes in the back end of season six with "In the Pale Moonlight". After seeing that, you most certainly will NOT hate Avery Brooks.

Overall, the show really does paint a much more realistic picture of the Federation than any other series that comes before. It's nice to see the "dark side" of the utopian future presented. It really challenges everything that is Star Trek, introduces villains that are more interesting than one-dimensional cutouts that we see in Next Generation since they come back for more than one episode, doesn't feature 'aliens of the week' and really builds a lot of the mythology of Star Trek, in a way that no other series before, or after, ever really would.
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« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2010, 10:37:54 PM »

I need to finally sit down and watch all of DS9 some day.
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« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2010, 10:50:18 PM »

Once Sisko loses his hair,  the story gets better.    It's kinda like the Next Generation,  where you could tell if you wanted to avoid an episode based on spotting a beardless Riker.   
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« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2010, 10:56:14 PM »

Go watch the first season of TNG and tell me if it is any indication of how the series evolved. The Dominion War is some of the best Star Trek ever made and you should just start watching the show at about the time when it starts heating up. The first few seasons of DS9 are pure dreck. It doesn't start to really shine until much later on.

Edit: The actors playing Gul Dukat and Weyoun were just amazing to watch as well.
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« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2010, 10:58:45 PM »

Quote from: Flatlander on April 27, 2010, 10:50:18 PM

Once Sisko loses his hair,  the story gets better.    It's kinda like the Next Generation,  where you could tell if you wanted to avoid an episode based on spotting a beardless Riker.   

or that doctor they had for one season- I always wanted to see Picard pimp hand that wench.
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« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2010, 11:37:16 PM »

Quote from: Jag on April 27, 2010, 10:56:14 PM

you should just start watching the show at about the time when it starts heating up.

Nah, we're going to power through. I'm compulsive that way, and the Bride enjoys seeing the old TNG characters for nostalgia's sake. She liked the episode with Vosh and Q, even if the story was too cute by half.
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« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2010, 12:37:18 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on April 27, 2010, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Jag on April 27, 2010, 10:56:14 PM

you should just start watching the show at about the time when it starts heating up.

Nah, we're going to power through. I'm compulsive that way, and the Bride enjoys seeing the old TNG characters for nostalgia's sake. She liked the episode with Vosh and Q, even if the story was too cute by half.

The early season episodes aren't all bad, there are a few really nice ones,  like where they brought back the three actors who'd played Klingon Captains in the original series, and had them reprise their roles.
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« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2010, 01:26:15 AM »

DS9 starts off as being very ordinary Star Trek, but gets much, MUCH better. I recommend watching them all, as there is a lot of subtle foreshadowing (even if it wasn't intentional) that will make the later awesomeness even more rewarding. Season 1 I would basically rate as an average season of TNG. Nothing really awful like the first 2 seasons, but nothing truly fantastic either. Season 2 gets better. Season 3 gets a LOT better. And then in season 4 it's just on like Donkey Kong and the show is just superb.

This is important: Avoid watching any of the extras as you plow through it the first time as they are full of spoilers from later seasons.

DS9 is unquestionably my favorite Star Trek series, and I do prefer it to Babylon 5. It's my second favorite sci-fi series ever.
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« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2010, 01:30:31 AM »

Get Einsteinium in here, he's a huge DS9 fan.

I am as well, but I notice that it is the least rerun ST series that I know of.  I want to go back and watch them all and I'm too cheap to buy the DVD's and too stupid to get Netflix.

Wait, what?
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« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2010, 02:23:46 AM »

I definitely would not recommend skipping the second season.  There are some really great episodes in there.  Like you, I didn't like DS9 when it came out, and had only watched a few sporadic episodes but had heard that it was great.  I started watching it when STO came out, and was very pleasantly surprised.  Season Two has a lot of character building and universe building and a lot of great episodes.  The first three episodes in Season Two are great (Homecoming, The Circle, The Siege) -- they are all linked and the night I watched Homecoming I had only intended to watch one episode for the night, but ended up having to watch all three, because I was really enjoying watching and wanted to see what was going to happen.  Great Stuff.  I definitely would not recommend skipping directly to season three.
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« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2010, 02:25:32 AM »

Quote from: JCC on April 28, 2010, 01:26:15 AM

DS9 is unquestionably my favorite Star Trek series, and I do prefer it to Babylon 5. It's my second favorite sci-fi series ever.

What's number one?
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Ironrod
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« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2010, 02:35:25 AM »

Quote from: Flatlander on April 28, 2010, 12:37:18 AM

Quote from: Ironrod on April 27, 2010, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Jag on April 27, 2010, 10:56:14 PM

you should just start watching the show at about the time when it starts heating up.

Nah, we're going to power through. I'm compulsive that way, and the Bride enjoys seeing the old TNG characters for nostalgia's sake. She liked the episode with Vosh and Q, even if the story was too cute by half.

The early season episodes aren't all bad, there are a few really nice ones,  like where they brought back the three actors who'd played Klingon Captains in the original series, and had them reprise their roles.

They are clearly trying to establish a direct continuity from TNG to DS9. Trying too hard, maybe.

Quote from: WarPig on April 28, 2010, 01:30:31 AM

Get Einsteinium in here, he's a huge DS9 fan.

I'd like to hear from some haters too, if any be reading.
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« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2010, 03:11:31 AM »

I remember liking it when it was on, then losing interest around the third season primarily because the high school me didn't quite comprehend serialized TV as well as I do now. People forget that not a lot of TV was heavily serialized up until Wise Guy in the 80's, so it's not been that way forever. DS9 was terrific from what I recall (especially the annual "let's torture the hell out of O'Brian just cause" episodes) and really took off once Sisko became Hawk again. But then I checked out. Too much going on to keep up with on a weekly basis. BUT! When I later on watched the final 9-10 episodes of the show back-to-back-to-back it was electric.

My Fair Lady and I have restarted LOST, and once that is finished I'm introducing her to Rome. After that?

Deep Space 9. In its entirety. So probably around this time next year I'll be finishing it off. smile
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« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2010, 04:03:51 AM »

Quote from: ydejin on April 28, 2010, 02:25:32 AM

Quote from: JCC on April 28, 2010, 01:26:15 AM

DS9 is unquestionably my favorite Star Trek series, and I do prefer it to Babylon 5. It's my second favorite sci-fi series ever.

What's number one?

it's something you usually do in the bathroom, either standing up or sitting down.
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« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2010, 04:32:30 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 28, 2010, 04:03:51 AM

Quote from: ydejin on April 28, 2010, 02:25:32 AM

Quote from: JCC on April 28, 2010, 01:26:15 AM

DS9 is unquestionably my favorite Star Trek series, and I do prefer it to Babylon 5. It's my second favorite sci-fi series ever.

What's number one?

it's something you usually do in the bathroom, either standing up or sitting down.

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« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2010, 04:34:06 AM »

3rd season is the real turning point.

The first and second seasons get good with The Circle, but the 3rd season starts the Dominion threat, the war, the Defiant, and Worf is soon to follow. Some of the mythologies at this point are pretty epic. There's an entire episode where Sisko relates a log of how he sacrifices his principles to win the war. One of my favorites.

Think of it as a series like Firefly, et.al. where the backstory begins to gain importance later when the characters are tested.
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2010, 04:36:51 AM »

Quote from: Ironrod on April 27, 2010, 09:43:51 PM

V...well, I think V is a lost cause, but I still have some vestige of hope.

missed this:  yeah, I have a feeling V is going to be going bye bye soon.  heck, they haven't even pulled out the laser blasters yet that made the original so cool.
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 04:40:31 AM »

One of my favorite DS9 eps was the one where Sisko and gang are on the ship and receive a distress call from some female captain stranded on a planet in the Gamma quad. They keep talking to her as they fly to rescue her. Very haunting like ending.

Spoiler for Hiden:
they get there only to find her bones. The atmosphere had been refracting the transmissions somehow through time. So even though they were talking back and forth to each other, in reality she had been dead for many years. I guess she thought they just gave up on her or something. Sad
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2010, 04:43:48 AM »

Quote from: Einsteinium on April 28, 2010, 04:34:06 AM

3rd season is the real turning point.

The first and second seasons get good with The Circle, but the 3rd season starts the Dominion threat, the war, the Defiant, and Worf is soon to follow. Some of the mythologies at this point are pretty epic. There's an entire episode where Sisko relates a log of how he sacrifices his principles to win the war. One of my favorites.

Think of it as a series like Firefly, et.al. where the backstory begins to gain importance later when the characters are tested.

ah, yes, Worf.  I forgot he joined the series that early, the episode where he did is probably one of the few DS9 ones I've seen that I can remember.
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2010, 05:14:47 AM »

I hate watching long series via the Netflix disc method.  My GF and I split a two at a time plan, so I only ever get a disc a week at best, so something like DS9 would take me almost two years to get through.  I much prefer to have access to seasons at a time.  I just wish that the DVDs would come down to a reasonable price.  Stupid expensive Star Trek.  Almost makes me want to pirate them.
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« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 12:19:37 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on April 28, 2010, 02:25:32 AM

What's number one?

#1 is my favorite TV show of all time, and has been for 30 years, Doctor Who.

One other thing on DS9. The opening double length pilot episode is horrid. It's the primary reason I never watched it when it aired. I remember watching it in my dorm room with a lot of fans of TNG, and we all hated it. Whenever I do a reviewing of the series, watching it again is painful. On the other hand, no one should skip it because it lays the foundation of Sisko as the Emissary. There's one other one in season 1 I hate, the one where the aliens from the Gamma quadrant make the crew play that damn game. Where they all have to hop around a board singing. Ugh. It's amazing that the show became so awesome! smile
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« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2010, 01:25:38 PM »

Quote from: ydejin on April 28, 2010, 02:25:32 AM

Quote from: JCC on April 28, 2010, 01:26:15 AM

DS9 is unquestionably my favorite Star Trek series, and I do prefer it to Babylon 5. It's my second favorite sci-fi series ever.

What's number one?

such a silly question slywink  only right answer is Firefly  icon_twisted
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« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 02:18:39 PM »

Quote from: JCC on April 28, 2010, 12:19:37 PM

One other thing on DS9. The opening double length pilot episode is horrid. It's the primary reason I never watched it when it aired. I remember watching it in my dorm room with a lot of fans of TNG, and we all hated it. Whenever I do a reviewing of the series, watching it again is painful. On the other hand, no one should skip it because it lays the foundation of Sisko as the Emissary. There's one other one in season 1 I hate, the one where the aliens from the Gamma quadrant make the crew play that damn game. Where they all have to hop around a board singing. Ugh. It's amazing that the show became so awesome! smile

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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 02:32:34 PM »

I have watched it all and while you might get some glimpses of character and some decent stories in the first 2 seasons I would still say skip them until after you are done with the rest.   Watching season 1 and 2 after the rest is ok because you love the characters so you can see them in terrible stories acting poorly. 

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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 02:35:43 PM »

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 27, 2010, 10:26:17 PM

You'd probably want to watch any episodes featuring Garak,


best...star trek character...evah!
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« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 02:38:50 PM »

Quote from: hepcat on April 28, 2010, 02:35:43 PM

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 27, 2010, 10:26:17 PM

You'd probably want to watch any episodes featuring Garak,


best...star trek character...evah!

better than.... Kirk?
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« Reply #30 on: April 28, 2010, 02:49:13 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 28, 2010, 02:38:50 PM

Quote from: hepcat on April 28, 2010, 02:35:43 PM

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 27, 2010, 10:26:17 PM

You'd probably want to watch any episodes featuring Garak,


best...star trek character...evah!

better than.... Kirk?

it's a tough call.  if you'd said "william shatner today" i might have said no, but as it stands, i'm sticking with garak.  i absolutely loved that character.  ruthless badass who you could not trust to the very end.  one of the darkest characters star trek ever produced.
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« Reply #31 on: April 28, 2010, 03:21:05 PM »

Quote from: Ironrod on April 28, 2010, 02:35:25 AM

Quote from: Flatlander on April 28, 2010, 12:37:18 AM

Quote from: Ironrod on April 27, 2010, 11:37:16 PM

Quote from: Jag on April 27, 2010, 10:56:14 PM

you should just start watching the show at about the time when it starts heating up.

Nah, we're going to power through. I'm compulsive that way, and the Bride enjoys seeing the old TNG characters for nostalgia's sake. She liked the episode with Vosh and Q, even if the story was too cute by half.

The early season episodes aren't all bad, there are a few really nice ones,  like where they brought back the three actors who'd played Klingon Captains in the original series, and had them reprise their roles.

They are clearly trying to establish a direct continuity from TNG to DS9. Trying too hard, maybe.

Quote from: WarPig on April 28, 2010, 01:30:31 AM

Get Einsteinium in here, he's a huge DS9 fan.

I'd like to hear from some haters too, if any be reading.

Like I said the first series of TNG was barely watchable, so use that as a reference of a what a poor start can turn into.

I've yet to hear of any haters (assuming they like sci-fi) who hated DS9 after watching the end of the series.
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« Reply #32 on: April 28, 2010, 04:32:00 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on April 28, 2010, 02:38:50 PM

Quote from: hepcat on April 28, 2010, 02:35:43 PM

Quote from: DragonFyre on April 27, 2010, 10:26:17 PM

You'd probably want to watch any episodes featuring Garak,


best...star trek character...evah!

better than.... Kirk?

Yes better then Kirk, if I could watch and recommend only one episode of DS9 it would be an episode where Garak was a main player, In the Pale Moonlight.

Spoiler for Hiden:
What made this episode so good is that it shows that how far Sisko will go to try and save the Federation from the Dominion, and how Garak leads him down a dark path that Sisko could never have imagined going down on his own.   This episode shows what made DS9 the best trek of all, that it was willing to have its characters make dark choices.
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« Reply #33 on: April 28, 2010, 04:38:56 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on April 28, 2010, 04:32:00 PM



Yes better then Kirk, if I could watch and recommend only one episode of DS9 it would be an episode where Garak was a main player, In the Pale Moonlight.


+1

an episode i did not expect from a star trek series.  fan-friggin'-tastic.
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« Reply #34 on: April 28, 2010, 09:25:44 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on April 28, 2010, 03:11:31 AM

But then I checked out. Too much going on to keep up with on a weekly basis. BUT! When I later on watched the final 9-10 episodes of the show back-to-back-to-back it was electric.

You watched the last several episodes in first run, as well. I know this because you were sitting next to me when I was watching them during their first run.  icon_smile
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« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2010, 12:35:54 AM »

I watched all 7 seasons in a row a year ago.  Never had the time to watch it when it was originally on TV.  I enjoyed it more than any other Star Trek by far. 

Right now I'm watching Voyager from start to finish and am currently in season 6.  Not as good, but it has been enjoyable.
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« Reply #36 on: April 29, 2010, 01:07:37 PM »

"Never tell the same lie twice"
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« Reply #37 on: April 29, 2010, 04:00:38 PM »

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination."   - Garak
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« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2010, 06:50:32 PM »

Garak was and is my favorite DS9 character.
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« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2010, 07:07:32 PM »

Quote from: Flatlander on April 29, 2010, 04:00:38 PM

"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination."   - Garak

I think I like this Garak.
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