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Author Topic: Spiderman 2 (major spoilers)  (Read 3512 times)
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Jeff
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« on: December 09, 2004, 04:22:14 AM »

thumbsup  thumbsup  thumbsup  thumbsup

LOVED IT. Just saw it tonight on DVD on my new TV, with 5.1 DD and all that. Great experience. I was surprised to recently read Ebert gave it 4 stars, and called it "the best superhero film since the original Superman"

After seeing it, I'm inclined to agree. Parker's agony over his identity, his being torn between his duty and MJ, and Harry's personal hatred of Spiderman, lots of the human element in this one.

I thought Doc Ock was one of the coolest villains I've seen yet. Those arms were just wicked, and the special effects were spectacular.

(yar, thar be spoilers ahead)

One of the scenes I liked the best was on the train, when Spidey lost his mask, then collapses after saving the people. THere was that small group of people who knew his identity, but after he'd saved their lives, there was a quiet moment of implied trust, where you knew the people were thinking "we'll never give you up". Other than the boy saying "we won't tell", the director just let it go, and let the scene speak for itself. very cool.

I also liked Harry's confrontation with his father's ghost, and finding the hidden room, where he learned his father's true identity as well.

I'm a sucker for romance and happy endings, so I liked MJ leaving the altar and coming back to Peter, but it did feel a tad "Hollywood happy ending", and that takes away from the angle of Parker's eternal torment for the burden he must carry. Still, it felt good to me.

Do you think there will be a Spiderman 3?
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AgtFox
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« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2004, 04:56:47 AM »

Quote from: "Jeff Jones"
Do you think there will be a Spiderman 3?

Yep and it already has a release date...May 4th, 2007.  I think on the 2nd disc of the DVD it should have a SM3 countdown.
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Thin_J
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« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2004, 05:04:21 AM »

*sigh*

I'm with ya on loving the movie, but not on the DVD.

Sony owned me once with the first Spider-Man movie, but it's not going to happen again.

But again, the movie was absolutely excellent. I love it, and only wish Sony wasn't so damned greedy with their DVD release schedules in attempts to get people to buy their movies twice. If they weren't, I'd have a copy already.
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Rich in KCK
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« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2004, 07:07:43 AM »

So you got the TV Jeff?

I watched the movie on Sunday night and loved it, thought it was better than the first one.

The only thing I thought that maybe should have been different was the editing of scenes at the end.  Having Harry find the room and then see him at the wedding didn't seem right.  I was half expecting the Green Goblin to show up right before Parker and MJ kissed and ruin the moment.  I think they shouldn't have shown Harry at the wedding or placed the scene at the end even if it would have been more of a cliche.
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« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2004, 08:22:05 AM »

I rented this on DVD as well and watched it with my S.O.. About 3/4 of the way through the movie we looked at each other with that, "do you think this sucks as much as I do?" look.

Sorry this movie just did not do it for me. Part of the underlying story in the first movie was Peter agonizing over his love for MJ and at the end coming to a decision that being Spiderman was more important then his personal feelings. They rehashed the whole story in Spiderman 2 and unlike the first one it felt completely flat. Another of the underlying ideals that make Spiderman who he is, and this is right out of the original comics, is his guilt over not stopping the thug who later on that night murders his uncle. We are then shown a scene where Peter see's a man being mugged and turns his back on the whole thing because he's now changed his mind and decided NOT to be Spiderman.

 The other serious problem I had with the film was except for 3 actors Rosemary Harris(Aunt May) J.K. Simmons(J.Jonah Jameson) and Alfred Molina(Doc Ock) everyone else seemed to be sleepwalking through their parts. I could not believe this was the same Toby Maguire as the first movie. James Franco I thought out and out sucked he would go from completely flat to this sort of forced over the top dialogue. I thought he was really good in Freaks and Geeks and made some concessions for the first movie but I would have thought he would have gotten better by this time not worse. I didnt really expect much out of Kirsten Dunst and as I expected she was "eh". I felt she really brought nothing to the role, at least in the first movie there seemed to be some sort of chemistry between the two charcters but this time I felt like they could have switched her with another actress mid movie and I would not have noticed.

There were two things I did like abou the movie, one was the setup for several more villians to come. Dr. Connors the one-armed scientist and John Jameson all american boy. I wont say anymore for those who arent readers of the original Spidey. The second was Alfred Molina, he was awesome just about every second he was on screen. They should have made it a "Super-Villian" movie instead and done the whole movie from Doc Ock's perspective so we could have had Molina on the screen for 90% of the movie rather then Toby Maguire.

I really really enjoyed the first Spiderman but this movie just felt like 99% of the people involved were just there to milk the cash cow and pick up a paycheck instead of actually putting their heart into it.
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Turtle
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« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2004, 10:12:06 AM »

Spiderman 3 should be interesting if they stick to the comic storylines.

SPOILER



In the comics, The Green Goblin returns, this time it's his son in the outfit trying to clear his father's name.

I don't know much beyond that, but it should make for an interesting duo on screen next time around.
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Zarkon
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« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2004, 12:41:59 PM »

Quote from: "Abaddon"
I rented this on DVD as well and watched it with my S.O.. About 3/4 of the way through the movie we looked at each other with that, "do you think this sucks as much as I do?" look.

Another of the underlying ideals that make Spiderman who he is, and this is right out of the original comics, is his guilt over not stopping the thug who later on that night murders his uncle. We are then shown a scene where Peter see's a man being mugged and turns his back on the whole thing because he's now changed his mind and decided NOT to be Spiderman.



You do recall that the story of Spider-Man 2 was directly from the comics, "Spider-Man No More!" being the title of the issue.  I believe he did the exact same thing there.  Quit the suit, walked away from superhero stuff completely, et al.  It was a crisis of conscience.  Just noting smile
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farley2k
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« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2004, 02:36:44 PM »

I thought the movie was ok but I was really sick by the end of Parker constantly being on the verge of tears.  

I felt like they took the idea that being Spiderman was tough and beat it to death.  I mean how many scenes do we need?  Come on.

The most fun stuff was when he was Spiderman but those scenes were few.  Most of the movie seemed to be Toby with red puffy eyes looking like his puppy just died.
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« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2004, 03:01:00 PM »

This movie promptly jumped to the unconfirmed top of my all time list. I simply need to rewatch it again to confirm that it was as good as i remember it being.  That will occur sometime on Christmas break...as it's wrapped and ready to be put in my stocking!

I absolutely loved the film after seeing it in the theatre...
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Aliasbuck
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« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2004, 06:33:04 PM »

Random thoughts:

The elevator scene was pure genius.  

Kirsten Dunst just is not MJ - sorry.

The character actors they got are brilliant - Oc and Jameson just swalloped up the whole screen every time they showed up.

Great bit on the subway train - finally someone got the "the citizens try to stand up to the bad guy" bit right.
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Dafones
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« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2004, 07:07:41 PM »

The only major complaint that I have is that I felt the movie was maybe 15/20 minutes too long right in the middle. It started off great - and it finishes great - but right in the middle it really started to drag, for me. It really had to do with the quote/unquote dramatic elements (Peter's retirement, his relationship with MJ, what I thought was Aunt May's God aweful rambling hero monologue) that I think could have been skillfully compresses so as not to ruin the pacing and flow of action in the movie.


And Spider-Man 3? Oh, it's a given. There's already the setup for four of the villains: The Lizard (Peter's one-armed teacher), Green Goblin II (Harry using his father's gear), The Man-Wolf (old school and cheesy werewolf that's hella unlikely, but wanted to mention it), and Venom (and this is a stretch, but I can see the alien symbiote brought to earth by John Jameson, like the recent cartoon did; Eddie Brock is already part of the cinematic Spider-Man world).

Oh oh, and if they do decide to use Venom, I want to see Peter get the suit at the beginning of SM3, and wear it basically without a hitch. It's not until the very end of SM3 that subtle problems arrise, and SM4 where he has to fight against it as part of him, and then Venom/Eddie Brock. Let the suit run for a while like it did in the comics, then make it a villain.
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« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2004, 07:24:43 PM »

There most likely will not be a Spider-Man 4 with Tobey nor Sam Raimi, so 3 may be the last one that may rule (barring a good star/director team that is)
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« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2004, 07:29:28 PM »

I thought it was good, but I thought the first one was much better done as a movie.  The first one had really perfect time/flow/pacing, whereas the second one dragged too much in parts, with unnecessary bits like the "cake-eating scene" and the elevator ride down, May's speech being a bit too long.

I thought it was a very good movie, just could've used a more ruthless editor.
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Dramatist
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2004, 08:25:13 PM »

I really enjoyed Spiderman 3.  But since the Incredibles came out it's dropped a notch.

I thought The Incredibles was the best super hero movie ever.
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AttAdude
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« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2004, 08:47:01 PM »

Just one quick question thats been buggin me.  In SM1 we see spiderman kick the shit out of green gobby.  There was a nice fight, where the Suit the and the flying thing where there.   Later at the end of SM2 we see Gobby's son find the secret room where he found lots of pumpkin bombs the magic green potion, AND the flyer and its suit.  My question is: A) who the hell fixed the suit becuse it was more than slightly fucked up after spiderman kicked the crap out of gobby.   And who put the suit and the flyer in that nice and nifty room?  Remember from the first movie that the suit and the flyer where a prototype so that would mean its the only one.  Does some one else know about gobby?
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« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2004, 11:20:40 PM »

In the comics, I think the original Green Goblin had all sorts of spare suits and gliders stashed away in various places around the city.
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Devil
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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 12:27:47 AM »

I'm in the "Didn't like it" camp. I thought it was better than the first one but still a little 'goofy' to me. I just couldn't get into it.
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« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2004, 09:21:41 PM »

Quote from: "Gwar21"
In the comics, I think the original Green Goblin had all sorts of spare suits and gliders stashed away in various places around the city.


Bingo.

He was always refining at least the glider in the comics, so I would say in the movie they'll just have it so that he improved both the glider and the suit.

Also, to the complaint several posts up about Park dropping the Spider-Man gig for a while..  Zarkon is 100% right. That entire storyline was pulled directly from the comics. He considered dropping the suit more than once. It's his feeling of guilt and responsibility for Uncle Ben's death that always draws him back into the hero gig.
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« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2004, 09:26:59 PM »

What version are you all watching?  The normal one, or the Superbit with DTS?  I bought the Superbit, but haven't watched it yet.
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« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2004, 04:18:09 PM »

If they do decide to go with green Goblin II as the villian in Spiderman 3 I hope they don't use the Goblin costume from the first movie. That thing just sucked ass and was real hindrance to Dafoe's otherwise good performance.
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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2004, 09:48:56 PM »

I really wanted to see a tattered cape flowing from behind the Goblin. I wish he had flown through one of those big balloons during the nondescript festival in the first movie and had some of the fabric catch onto his suit. Instant cape.
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« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2004, 02:21:06 AM »

Quote from: "Dramatist"
I really enjoyed Spiderman 3.  But since the Incredibles came out it's dropped a notch.

I thought The Incredibles was the best super hero movie ever.


Got that time machine working didya?   Tongue

I'm waiting on buying Spiderman 2.  Supposedly there is going to be an extended version (ala LotR) coming out some time next year.
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« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2004, 02:21:49 AM »

I didn't like the movie very much, mostly it was pretty much every scene with MJ that ruined it for me. Sure, I can stomach some cheesy love/emotional scenes, but when it makes up half the movie I can't stand it.

The movie had its good points but overall it was extremely boring thanks to lame dialogue and stiff acting. Good action scenes of course.
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« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2004, 03:43:58 AM »

the fight scenes w/Doc Ock were great and there was some good humor.  otherwise it sucked.  incredibly lame scenes like "raindrops falling on my head" and MJ running in her wedding dress really ruined it for me.
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« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2004, 04:57:45 AM »

I don't just think Spidey 2 is one of the best superhero movies ever made...

...I think it might be one of the best movies in any genre to come out in 2004.  It's utterly brilliant, start to finish.  

I'm not a comic book guy.  I think I like the concept, and I like stuff like The Watchmen and brilliant satire like Flaming Carrot...but other than that, not much of a fan.  

I think everything about Spidey 2 is wonderful.  The extended scenes between Parker and MJ especially.  Favorite part of the entire movie is the dialogue, written by Pulitzer Prize winning novelist Michael Chabon (Chabon might be our generation's Hemingway or Faulkner--he's that brilliant).  Two thumbs waaaay up.
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« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2004, 05:18:06 AM »

I thought the raindrops keep falling on my head scene was brilliant myself
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« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2004, 09:24:38 AM »

trigger, I'm not sure how much Chabon actually contributed to SM2. He was originally contracted to write the screenplay, but he got bumped a few months into his work. IMDB has him as a screen story contributor, but he's not the screenwriter of Spider-Man 2.
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« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2004, 03:34:58 PM »

Quote from: "Dafones"
trigger, I'm not sure how much Chabon actually contributed to SM2. He was originally contracted to write the screenplay, but he got bumped a few months into his work. IMDB has him as a screen story contributor, but he's not the screenwriter of Spider-Man 2.


That's how he credited in the movie.  From what I've read, they retained lots of his dialogue, and had him work up more for the final shooting script.  That's his major contribution, much like Quentin Tarantino's contribution to CRIMSON TIDE.
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« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2004, 03:56:48 PM »

Quote from: "triggercut"
I don't just think Spidey 2 is one of the best superhero movies ever made...

...I think it might be one of the best movies in any genre to come out in 2004.  It's utterly brilliant, start to finish.  

Two thumbs waaaay up.


Ditto.  I loved it through and through.  I think all of the casting is spot on and the story and charcter development are wondeful.  The Incredibles does edge past this one on my favorites list, but that's no knock on the quality of this film.  Intense, deep and fun! smile

I noticed there were more "big titty" girls in this one.  That's what really told me that Sam Raimi was sticking to the source material. smile  And he sure does seem to like MJ to be soaking wet.
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« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2004, 05:55:41 PM »

The only thing I would like to have seen in it is more witty banter and cracks from Spidey - they did this fairly well in the first one (particularly the wresting scene) but it was almost non-existant in SM2.  The humor seemed to be a little more gag-oriented (though I agree the elevator scene was brilliant).
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2004, 10:48:02 PM »

I prefer the X-Men movies myself. But then again that could be just my love of Rebecca Romijn.


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