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Author Topic: So - Lunar landing gone from NAsa  (Read 2815 times)
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Razgon
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« on: July 16, 2009, 09:54:11 PM »

Appearently, NASA has no clue how to keep backups - Their tapes of the first Lunar landing is gone, as is the Backup, and they'd have to borrow some inferior tape edition from CBS.

I wonder if this will get the conspiracy nuts up and roaring again... And about that - one thing I dont get - there has to be clues to the first landing, right? The flag they set, and wasnt there a lunar module as well left up there? Wouldnt people be able to see those things?

Anyways - NASA has some explaining to do, deleting historical tapes like that I'd say...and it IS a bit suspecious :-D
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« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2009, 10:05:57 PM »

i'm staying right out of this thread icon_redface
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« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2009, 10:06:01 PM »

Things left on the moon
http://spacegrant.nmsu.edu/lunarlegacies/artifactlist.html

Can we see this stuff?
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question188.htm

Not even with the hubble?
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/11jul_lroc.htm

Buzz Aldrin shows what he thinks of those conspiracy nuts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ez-NpFVwQw






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« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2009, 11:51:27 PM »

of course there's a cover up, but it's not that the landing was fake.  it was that they discovered the Moon Men and kept it quiet, but Sharon Tate found out and was about to blow the whistle when Charles Manson, subjugated by the Moon Men, took in his hit squad to take her out.  subsequently, the Moon Men then messed with their brain waves, turning them into crazies to hide their tracks.  Truthiness!
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« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2009, 12:29:49 AM »

Quote from: morlac on July 16, 2009, 10:06:01 PM


Quote
Several alert readers pointed out that, even though you cannot see direct evidence of the moon excursions with a telescope, there is one artifact that the astronauts left behind on the moon that does provide evidence of their missions. That artifact is a laser beam reflector that has been used to track the distance of the moon from the Earth. This article talks briefly about the reflector.

The Mythbusters even brought this up during their conspiracy theory episode about the moon landings.

That said - amazing that NASA doesn't have any backups of one of the greatest things in American history. Oy.
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« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 02:22:00 AM »

Actually, they did have backups.  However, it's key to note that these aren't the sort of back ups we think of today.  Nowadays we just copy a few things on to a spare hard drive, USB thumb drive, online server, etc...  Back then, you had computers the size of warehouses with data storage, well, I don't even remember what they used for storage back then, but it was big, bulky, and had to be physically carried, probably involved magnetic tape, could be demagnetized, burnt down, wet, or simply lost in the giant bureaucratic shuffles of the time.

I'm not surprised stuff was lost, I'm surprised more stuff wasn't lost.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 06:24:31 AM »

Quote from: Destructor on July 17, 2009, 12:29:49 AM

Quote from: morlac on July 16, 2009, 10:06:01 PM


Quote
Several alert readers pointed out that, even though you cannot see direct evidence of the moon excursions with a telescope, there is one artifact that the astronauts left behind on the moon that does provide evidence of their missions. That artifact is a laser beam reflector that has been used to track the distance of the moon from the Earth. This article talks briefly about the reflector.

The Mythbusters even brought this up during their conspiracy theory episode about the moon landings.

That said - amazing that NASA doesn't have any backups of one of the greatest things in American history. Oy.

Humans never landed there. The reflector was sent there using ummaned rocket launch. The reason why men can send the reflector there but not astronauts is because they don't have the ability to launch from moon surface. Moon has 1/6 earth gravity so to leave moon, you'll need 1/6 of the power needed to launch from earth surface. Do you seriously believe that the moon lander's tiny propulsion has 1/6 the power of the large rocket that men used to launch stuff to space from earth surface?

That was also the reason behind the space shuttle project. NASA hope that with the space shuttle, they can finally send people to the moon since the space shuttle's propulsion is strong enough in theory to launch from surface of moon.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 06:26:37 AM by Victoria Raverna » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 06:46:56 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 06:24:31 AM

Quote from: Destructor on July 17, 2009, 12:29:49 AM

Quote from: morlac on July 16, 2009, 10:06:01 PM


Quote
Several alert readers pointed out that, even though you cannot see direct evidence of the moon excursions with a telescope, there is one artifact that the astronauts left behind on the moon that does provide evidence of their missions. That artifact is a laser beam reflector that has been used to track the distance of the moon from the Earth. This article talks briefly about the reflector.

The Mythbusters even brought this up during their conspiracy theory episode about the moon landings.

That said - amazing that NASA doesn't have any backups of one of the greatest things in American history. Oy.

Humans never landed there. The reflector was sent there using ummaned rocket launch. The reason why men can send the reflector there but not astronauts is because they don't have the ability to launch from moon surface. Moon has 1/6 earth gravity so to leave moon, you'll need 1/6 of the power needed to launch from earth surface. Do you seriously believe that the moon lander's tiny propulsion has 1/6 the power of the large rocket that men used to launch stuff to space from earth surface?

That was also the reason behind the space shuttle project. NASA hope that with the space shuttle, they can finally send people to the moon since the space shuttle's propulsion is strong enough in theory to launch from surface of moon.



what? i have read that post 4 times and I have no clue what you're trying to say, but I do hope it's sarcasm.
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Victoria Raverna
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« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 06:52:50 AM »

Moon has 1/6 earth gravity.

To launch something from moon surface, you need 1/6 of the power needed to launch that from earth surface.

Moon lander doesn't have 1/6 the power of the rocket that launched apollo to moon orbit.

Moon lander doesn't have enough power to launch from moon surface to moon orbit.

Since those astronauts who "moonwalked" were back to earth, then the moon landing was fake.

Moonwalking can only be true if those astronauts were stranded on moon surface and never returned.

smile
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« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 07:28:50 AM »

Quote from: Turtle on July 17, 2009, 02:22:00 AM

Actually, they did have backups.  However, it's key to note that these aren't the sort of back ups we think of today.  Nowadays we just copy a few things on to a spare hard drive, USB thumb drive, online server, etc...  Back then, you had computers the size of warehouses with data storage, well, I don't even remember what they used for storage back then, but it was big, bulky, and had to be physically carried, probably involved magnetic tape, could be demagnetized, burnt down, wet, or simply lost in the giant bureaucratic shuffles of the time.

I'm not surprised stuff was lost, I'm surprised more stuff wasn't lost.

You'r probably right, things were of course different back then. I'm just surprised nobody in NASA thought to make newer backups of the data? As I understand it, the video feed was kept with all the other readings from the landing, so - its probably pretty important stuff
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« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 07:33:47 AM »

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 07:28:50 AM

Quote from: Turtle on July 17, 2009, 02:22:00 AM

Actually, they did have backups.  However, it's key to note that these aren't the sort of back ups we think of today.  Nowadays we just copy a few things on to a spare hard drive, USB thumb drive, online server, etc...  Back then, you had computers the size of warehouses with data storage, well, I don't even remember what they used for storage back then, but it was big, bulky, and had to be physically carried, probably involved magnetic tape, could be demagnetized, burnt down, wet, or simply lost in the giant bureaucratic shuffles of the time.

I'm not surprised stuff was lost, I'm surprised more stuff wasn't lost.

You'r probably right, things were of course different back then. I'm just surprised nobody in NASA thought to make newer backups of the data? As I understand it, the video feed was kept with all the other readings from the landing, so - its probably pretty important stuff

c'mon, we all know they had advance storage techniques that were reverse engineered from technology recovered from the crash at Roswell.



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« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2009, 07:35:49 AM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 17, 2009, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 07:28:50 AM

Quote from: Turtle on July 17, 2009, 02:22:00 AM

Actually, they did have backups.  However, it's key to note that these aren't the sort of back ups we think of today.  Nowadays we just copy a few things on to a spare hard drive, USB thumb drive, online server, etc...  Back then, you had computers the size of warehouses with data storage, well, I don't even remember what they used for storage back then, but it was big, bulky, and had to be physically carried, probably involved magnetic tape, could be demagnetized, burnt down, wet, or simply lost in the giant bureaucratic shuffles of the time.

I'm not surprised stuff was lost, I'm surprised more stuff wasn't lost.

You'r probably right, things were of course different back then. I'm just surprised nobody in NASA thought to make newer backups of the data? As I understand it, the video feed was kept with all the other readings from the landing, so - its probably pretty important stuff

that was the DAT tapes, right? ;-)

c'mon, we all know they had advance storage techniques that were reverse engineered from technology recovered from the crash at Roswell.



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morlac
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« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2009, 11:32:41 AM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 06:52:50 AM

Moon has 1/6 earth gravity.

To launch something from moon surface, you need 1/6 of the power needed to launch that from earth surface.

Moon lander doesn't have 1/6 the power of the rocket that launched apollo to moon orbit.

Moon lander doesn't have enough power to launch from moon surface to moon orbit.

Since those astronauts who "moonwalked" were back to earth, then the moon landing was fake.

Moonwalking can only be true if those astronauts were stranded on moon surface and never returned.

smile


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« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2009, 12:17:52 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 06:52:50 AM

Moon has 1/6 earth gravity.

To launch something from moon surface, you need 1/6 of the power needed to launch that from earth surface.

Moon lander doesn't have 1/6 the power of the rocket that launched apollo to moon orbit.

Moon lander doesn't have enough power to launch from moon surface to moon orbit.

Since those astronauts who "moonwalked" were back to earth, then the moon landing was fake.

Moonwalking can only be true if those astronauts were stranded on moon surface and never returned.

smile


Could someone please install a slapping plugin for the forum so that I can slap VR to his senses? Pretty please? With a cherry on top?
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« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2009, 12:28:52 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 06:52:50 AM

Moon has 1/6 earth gravity.

To launch something from moon surface, you need 1/6 of the power needed to launch that from earth surface.

Moon lander doesn't have 1/6 the power of the rocket that launched apollo to moon orbit.

Moon lander doesn't have enough power to launch from moon surface to moon orbit.

lol, nice try. Unfortunately you are neglecting to factor in the the mass of what is being launched. What was launched from earth included a shit-ton of fuel, the tanks to hold it, and the boosters. So yeah, you might need 1/6th the power to lauch the ENTIRE apollo rocket from the moon, but it would be much less for a tiny lander.
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2009, 12:31:43 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 06:52:50 AM

Moon has 1/6 earth gravity.
To launch something from moon surface, you need 1/6 of the power needed to launch that from earth surface.

Nope. It wouldn't need close 1/6 the power...no atmosphere to punch through, quite a bit shorter distance, very light structure (10,000 lbs vs 6,700,000 lbs), only needing to get to orbital velocity vs getting to escape velocity.
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2009, 12:58:16 PM »

If you had 1/6 the power (force) and 1/6 the gravity (acceleration) then the lunar module could weigh AS MUCH AS THE FULLY LADEN SATURN V ROCKET.

F=ma

Divide the force by 6 and the acceleration by 6
F/6=ma/6

I think those sixes might cancel out

F=ma
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2009, 01:33:58 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 17, 2009, 12:58:16 PM

If you had 1/6 the power (force) and 1/6 the gravity (acceleration) then the lunar module could weigh AS MUCH AS THE FULLY LADEN SATURN V ROCKET.

F=ma

Divide the force by 6 and the acceleration by 6
F/6=ma/6

I think those sixes might cancel out

F=ma

Ummmm, what? The force required to lift the saturn V from the moon is 1/6th that required to lift from the earth.

F(moon) = F(earth)/6

since F=ma that means F(moon) = ma/6

You don't divide both sides by 6. Otherwise you get: F(moon)/6 = F(earth)/6 and then F(moon) = F(earth) which is not true.
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2009, 01:41:48 PM »

I'll be happy to admit I put my caps lock in my mouth, but please help me understand where I went wrong here:

Gravity moon = Gm = 1.6m/s/s
Gravity earth = Ge = 9.8m/s/s

Force to take off from earth= Fe
Ms = mass of Saturn V = 3,000,000kg (wikipedia)

Fe = Ms * Ge
Fe = 3,000,000kg * 9.8m/s/s
Fe = 29,000,000N

Force to take off from moon = Fm
Fm = Fe/6
Fm = 29,000,000N/6 = 4,800,000N

Mm = mass of module

Fm = Mm * Gm
4,800,000N = Mm * 1.6m/s/s
3,000,000kg = Mm = Ms
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2009, 01:53:50 PM »

Quote from: raydude on July 17, 2009, 01:33:58 PM

Ummmm, what? The force required to lift the saturn V from the moon is 1/6th that required to lift from the earth.

Wait, we're saying the same thing.  The force to lift the Saturn V off the moon is 1/6 the force to lift it off the earth, because the moon's gravity is 1/6 that on earth.  But we're not lifting the Saturn V off the moon.  We're not even lifting the whole lunar module.  We're trying to lift just the ascent portion of the lunar module, which weighs 4,500kg, about as much as an empty Blackhawk helicopter.
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« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2009, 02:16:37 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 17, 2009, 01:41:48 PM

I'll be happy to admit I put my caps lock in my mouth, but please help me understand where I went wrong here:

Gravity moon = Gm = 1.6m/s/s
Gravity earth = Ge = 9.8m/s/s

Force to take off from earth= Fe
Ms = mass of Saturn V = 3,000,000kg (wikipedia)

Fe = Ms * Ge
Fe = 3,000,000kg * 9.8m/s/s
Fe = 29,000,000N

Force to take off from moon = Fm
Fm = Fe/6
Fm = 29,000,000N/6 = 4,800,000N

Here is where we are both saying the same thing - that the force to lift the Saturn V off the moon is 1/6 that to lift Saturn V off the earth. You can't solve for the mass of the module using the force required to lift Saturn V off the moon, because the mass of an object is independent of the gravity. In other words:

Fe = 3,000,000kg * 9.8m/s/s = 29,000,000 N
Fm = Fe/6
Fm = 3,000,000kg * 1.6m/s/s = 4,800,000 N

The mass didn't change, only the acceleration did. The mass of the Saturn V remains the same regardless of whether it is on a launching pad on earth or on the surface of the moon.

Quote
We're not even lifting the whole lunar module.  We're trying to lift just the ascent portion of the lunar module, which weighs 4,500kg, about as much as an empty Blackhawk helicopter.

So, now that we know the mass of the ascent portion of the lunar module, we can correctly calculate the force required to lift it from the moon:

Fm = 4,500kg * 1.6m/s/s = 7200 N

Or conversely, the force required to just lift this same mass from the earth:
Fe = 4,500kg * 9.8m/s/s = 44100 N
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« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2009, 02:39:50 PM »

C
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« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2009, 03:26:14 PM »

Quote from: Toe on July 17, 2009, 02:39:50 PM

C

It still would have been easier just to have Buzz bitch slap him.
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« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2009, 03:31:43 PM »

Quote from: morlac on July 17, 2009, 03:26:14 PM

Quote from: Toe on July 17, 2009, 02:39:50 PM

C

It still would have been easier just to have Buzz bitch slap him.

I hear Buzz Lukens has one hell of a bitch slap  icon_wink
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« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2009, 03:42:02 PM »

Quote from: wonderpug on July 17, 2009, 01:41:48 PM

I'll be happy to admit I put my caps lock in my mouth, but please help me understand where I went wrong here:

Gravity moon = Gm = 1.6m/s/s
Gravity earth = Ge = 9.8m/s/s

Force to take off from earth= Fe
Ms = mass of Saturn V = 3,000,000kg (wikipedia)

Fe = Ms * Ge
Fe = 3,000,000kg * 9.8m/s/s
Fe = 29,000,000N

Force to take off from moon = Fm
Fm = Fe/6
Fm = 29,000,000N/6 = 4,800,000N

Mm = mass of module

Fm = Mm * Gm
4,800,000N = Mm * 1.6m/s/s
3,000,000kg = Mm = Ms

VR is hiding from silly ideas like your application of math and deep thinking, instead of just using "common sense". 
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« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2009, 03:49:58 PM »

Quote from: Scraper on July 17, 2009, 03:42:02 PM

Quote from: wonderpug on July 17, 2009, 01:41:48 PM

I'll be happy to admit I put my caps lock in my mouth, but please help me understand where I went wrong here:

Gravity moon = Gm = 1.6m/s/s
Gravity earth = Ge = 9.8m/s/s

Force to take off from earth= Fe
Ms = mass of Saturn V = 3,000,000kg (wikipedia)

Fe = Ms * Ge
Fe = 3,000,000kg * 9.8m/s/s
Fe = 29,000,000N

Force to take off from moon = Fm
Fm = Fe/6
Fm = 29,000,000N/6 = 4,800,000N

Mm = mass of module

Fm = Mm * Gm
4,800,000N = Mm * 1.6m/s/s
3,000,000kg = Mm = Ms

VR is hiding from silly ideas like your application of math and deep thinking, instead of just using "common sense". 

I guess trolling can be a good thing. We can learn from the discussion here. Much better than just laughing at those that think the moon landing was fake. smile
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« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2009, 03:52:54 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 17, 2009, 03:31:43 PM

Quote from: morlac on July 17, 2009, 03:26:14 PM

Quote from: Toe on July 17, 2009, 02:39:50 PM

C

It still would have been easier just to have Buzz bitch slap him.

I hear Buzz Lukens has one hell of a bitch slap  icon_wink

Well he did pay $40 to use it...
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« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2009, 03:55:50 PM »

Quote from: Victoria Raverna on July 17, 2009, 03:49:58 PM


I guess trolling can be a good thing. We can learn from the discussion here. Much better than just laughing at those that think the moon landing was fake. smile


Indeed. And in the interest of learning, let me re-iterate the correct values for the lunar module vs Saturn V:

Saturn V launching from moon (notice dividing by 6 to account for lunar gravity):
F(saturn v on moon) = 29,000,000N/6 = 4,800,000N

lunar module ascent stage launching from moon:
F(ascent stage on moon) = 4,500kg * 1.6m/s/s = 7200 N

Much less force required for the module.
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« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2009, 04:09:04 PM »

Still no calculation for atmosphere (the drag at hypersonic speeds is immense), and we're still using escape velocity as the 'control'...the lander did not have to escape the moons gravity well, it just had to get it into orbit. slywink
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« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2009, 04:24:09 PM »

Somewhere along the way my head started hurting during the reading of this thread.
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« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2009, 04:32:32 PM »

Quote from: Booner on July 17, 2009, 04:09:04 PM

Still no calculation for atmosphere (the drag at hypersonic speeds is immense), and we're still using escape velocity as the 'control'...the lander did not have to escape the moons gravity well, it just had to get it into orbit. slywink


Actually, escape velocity hasn't entered into the argument yet. We're talking about the amount of force required to overcome the force of gravity. For the Apollo-11 launch, during the whole time the Saturn V was being moved to the launch pad, it was experiencing a force of 29,000,000N. That force was due to gravity. Otherwise it would have just floated off into space.

In order to have any kind of velocity, the Saturn V must exert a force to overcome the Earth's gravitational pull over time. Then, it (and any other object wanting to get into space and stay there) must reach escape velocity regardless of whether it just wants to orbit the earth or escape its gravity well.

to quote wikipedia:
"escape velocity is the minimum speed an object without propulsion needs to have sufficient energy to be able to 'escape' from the gravity, i.e. so that gravity will never manage to pull it back"

An object reaching lunar orbit is already considered to have reached escape velocity because gravity will never manage to pull it back to the surface of the moon. Hence, yes, the lunar module must attain lunar escape velocity to make lunar orbit.
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« Reply #31 on: July 17, 2009, 04:34:54 PM »

Gods, I leave this thread alone to go watch the new Harry Potter movie, and it degenates into this? jeez, lay of the math people... ;-)

Anyways - I'm still concerned about the lack of record keeping...I mean, we have stone tablets and papers telling us about stuff 2000 years ago...and we cant keep one of the most important historic happenings in recent time intact for 40 years?
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wonderpug
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« Reply #32 on: July 17, 2009, 04:47:51 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 04:34:54 PM

Gods, I leave this thread alone to go watch the new Harry Potter movie, and it degenates into this? jeez, lay of the math people... ;-)

Anyways - I'm still concerned about the lack of record keeping...I mean, we have stone tablets

A ten foot by ten foot area of slate weighs about 1,000 lbs.  Using that as a general guide to the weight of a stone tablet, it would take an area of stone tablets 77,000 feet by 77,000 feet to equal the weight of the Saturn V, or about 200 square miles.

In comparison, the lunar ascent module would be the weight of stone tablets covering 100 feet by 100 feet, or about 0.00035 square miles.
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« Reply #33 on: July 17, 2009, 04:51:29 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 04:34:54 PM

Gods, I leave this thread alone to go watch the new Harry Potter movie, and it degenates into this? jeez, lay of the math people... ;-)

Anyways - I'm still concerned about the lack of record keeping...I mean, we have stone tablets and papers telling us about stuff 2000 years ago...and we cant keep one of the most important historic happenings in recent time intact for 40 years?

Its a good thing those ancients were so good with keeping records of monumental achievements. Tell me, where can I find the documents that told me exactly how the pyramids were built?
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Isgrimnur
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« Reply #34 on: July 17, 2009, 04:55:22 PM »

LRO pictures of the Apollo landing sites.

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And mind you, these pictures are not even the highest resolution LRO can provide; future observation will have twice this much detail!
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walTer
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« Reply #35 on: July 17, 2009, 04:55:45 PM »

So how DID they get that video of him coming down the stairs?

/believes that Capricorn One was a documentary... eek
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« Reply #36 on: July 17, 2009, 05:04:29 PM »

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Climbing down the nine-rung ladder, Armstrong pulled a D-ring to deploy the Modular Equipment Stowage Assembly (MESA) folded against Eagle's side and activate the TV camera.[24]

Quote
109:21:07 Aldrin: Did you get the MESA out?

109:21:09 Armstrong: I'm going to pull it now. (Pause)

[Neil is pulling the D-ring which releases the MESA, attached to the side of the LM under Buzz's station, and lets it swing down into an accessible position. Once down on the surface, he can adjust the MESA height if necessary. Training photo S69-31080 (scan by Paolo Dangelo) shows Neil working at the MESA. A drawing of the MESA shows the location of the TV camera which will show Neil's climb down the ladder.]

109:21:18 Armstrong: Houston, the MESA came down all right.
...
109:24:48 Armstrong: That's one small step for (a) man; one giant leap for mankind. (Long Pause)
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walTer
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« Reply #37 on: July 17, 2009, 05:06:29 PM »

Quote from: walTer on July 17, 2009, 04:55:45 PM

So how DID they get that video of him coming down the stairs?

/believes that Capricorn One was a documentary... eek

Dang, so OJ lied?  Oh well.
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« Reply #38 on: July 17, 2009, 05:08:50 PM »

Quote from: raydude on July 17, 2009, 04:51:29 PM

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 04:34:54 PM

Gods, I leave this thread alone to go watch the new Harry Potter movie, and it degenates into this? jeez, lay of the math people... ;-)

Anyways - I'm still concerned about the lack of record keeping...I mean, we have stone tablets and papers telling us about stuff 2000 years ago...and we cant keep one of the most important historic happenings in recent time intact for 40 years?

Its a good thing those ancients were so good with keeping records of monumental achievements. Tell me, where can I find the documents that told me exactly how the pyramids were built?

what is that supposed to accomplish, other than being snarky?? Are you suggesting, that we havent been able to store things for 40 years before? OR that because you cant find anything about how to build the pyramids, its okay we havent kept the tapes of the lunar landing?
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« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2009, 05:14:33 PM »

Quote from: Razgon on July 17, 2009, 04:34:54 PM

Anyways - I'm still concerned about the lack of record keeping...I mean, we have stone tablets and papers telling us about stuff 2000 years ago...and we cant keep one of the most important historic happenings in recent time intact for 40 years?

it's OK, we have the technology to re-enact it bigger, better, and with more Michael Bay.
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