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Author Topic: Running Cat 5 Cable?  (Read 1452 times)
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ATB
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« on: October 04, 2006, 03:05:24 PM »

Okay so when I had our house built i neglected to have an Internet jack placed where my tv is.  (When I called just a few hours later to correct the problem, I was rejected- jerks!).

So now I must tap into one of my hardlines that are wired into the rooms upstairs and run a line down to my tv (I'd prefer not to go wireless as it just doesn't seem to be nearly as fast).

So: How hard is it to terminate cat 5 cable?  I'm guessing you don't have to polish it as it's not fiber, but....what unthought issues with the wiring am I missing?

Is cat 5 relatively cheap? I'm thinkgin I'll need 50 feet or so. 

What tools are required. etc. etc.
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« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2006, 03:16:52 PM »

I'm curious about this as well... 802.11g around the house just isn't cutting it for media streaming.
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« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2006, 03:45:37 PM »

I've done it.  You'll need a tool you can pick up at Radio Shack.  Wireless is probably easier though.  I don't think the speed difference is that noticeable, especially since you're not a PC gamer.
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2006, 04:06:14 PM »

CAT5 is WAY cheap.

100foot CAT5 $11.25 x ?


keystone wall-plate $1.00 x 2


tool-less keystone RJ45 male adapter $2.00 x 2


Steps :
Cut off the ends of the 100ft cable
Run the cable through the walls / ceilings (you may need a drill and a wall-fish to do this).
Make sure each point at which the cable leaves the wall is asthetically pleasing. (or if you opt to only need ONE plate and the other is not being mounted in the plate then don't cut that end off, just plug it into the router)
Use wire-cutters to cut through JUST the outside sleeve on the cut end(s). Note: ANY nick or damage to the twisted pair means you cut back to behind the damage and try again).
separate enough of the twisted pairs to work with them.
Shove em in the color-coded toolless crowns. (or you could use the crunch-down type. You do NOT need to strip each of the 8 cables inside. (referred to as the 4 twisted pairs).
Finally, mount the keystones onto the plate(s), and fasten it to the wall over the hole.


Like I mentioned above, you may need wall fishing tools, such as fish tape.


The only reason you'd need crimping tools was if you were working with CAT5 without the male RJ45 ends. If this is the case, it's 9.15 from monoprice.com, and another couple of bucks for the ends.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 04:14:05 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2006, 04:13:51 PM »

What purge said..

When we gutted this house last year, I pre-wired multiple CAT5 connections into every room.  Just stubs tucked into the wall plates right now, but I have some of those pinch fittings he shows above anytime I need a hot connection in a room.  Wireless sucks IMO, too unstable and slow at times, but I still have a hotspot in my home for the Nintendo DS shit.

Home Depot sells everything you need, cheap. I use a fish rod rather than tape myself, preference really, about $19 for one at Home Depot as well. Figure $100 MAX to wire everything up, including material, with enough left over to do another room or two.
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2006, 04:15:43 PM »

Thanks Gents-

Is there such thing as a splitter? That way I could run the line to both the upstairs and downstairs on the same line.
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2006, 04:19:51 PM »

In terms of fishing tools, the best (and cheapest) method I've used was just using using a fishing weight attached to a piece of string and the wire, drop it down the wall and then use a retractable magnet to withdraw it wherever you want the wall plate. 
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2006, 04:20:34 PM »

Yep. Going with Monoprice is going to be cheaper, even with shipping. The price I show up top there adds up to less than 20 USD to do. The cable already has the male ends, and I assume every house has one pair of wire-cutters or pliers (which have a cable cutter standard on them).

If you decide to forgo crowns (as often people will use the forced air ducts to run the cable up). I'd recommend that first rather than wiring to a location that you may not have your system in 6 months from now.

Any questions, please ask away. I could even walk you through (using phone as I don't pay LD charges) if you need some free tech support. :shrug:

I've wired my houses so many times it hurts. I used to run 30+ person lan games at home; I still have 10/100 16 port switch (TRUE switch, not a hub) from 1998... back when those f**kers were ess-pensive.
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 04:22:37 PM »

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 04, 2006, 04:19:51 PM

In terms of fishing tools, the best (and cheapest) method I've used was just using using a fishing weight attached to a piece of string and the wire, drop it down the wall and then use a retractable magnet to withdraw it wherever you want the wall plate. 

With interior walls and working inside the same stud space I totally agree. It's when you've got bends and hard-to-reach areas that tape pays for itself. If this is a single instance activity, see if home depot rents out fish tape by the 4hour and/or day (it wouldn't surprise me if they did).
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 04:26:02 PM »

Quote from: ATB on October 04, 2006, 04:15:43 PM

Thanks Gents-

Is there such thing as a splitter? That way I could run the line to both the upstairs and downstairs on the same line.

What you would need would be a port switch I believe.

As for fish tape, Purge is right, Home Depot rents them, for like $2 a day or something ridiculously low.
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2006, 04:26:30 PM »

Quote from: ATB on October 04, 2006, 04:15:43 PM

Thanks Gents-

Is there such thing as a splitter? That way I could run the line to both the upstairs and downstairs on the same line.

You are talking about a hub. (splitter=multi-port repeater=hub) There are non-powered hubs, and at that network distance (less than 300ft combined) you're not going to see attenuation (signal degradation). This means you COULD have a "splitter" sitting somewhere in your walls.

I would instead suggest that you run two different lines through; that way you have more control. You can get 2 and even 4 keystone wall-plates for where your router is. Use 6 foot patch cables from that plate to your router. It is the best practice.

Also, I recommended the 100ft for you. If both segments you need to run are less than 100 ft, run the long one first and THEN cut the cable when it's in place. You might not need a second cable purchase.

Gimme some detail here : do you have a basement? where is your broadband connection? do you have a router? how many ports? how many devices? what floor locations?
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 04:32:05 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2006, 04:32:41 PM »

Quote from: Purge on October 04, 2006, 04:22:37 PM

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 04, 2006, 04:19:51 PM

In terms of fishing tools, the best (and cheapest) method I've used was just using using a fishing weight attached to a piece of string and the wire, drop it down the wall and then use a retractable magnet to withdraw it wherever you want the wall plate. 

With interior walls and working inside the same stud space I totally agree. It's when you've got bends and hard-to-reach areas that tape pays for itself. If this is a single instance activity, see if home depot rents out fish tape by the 4hour and/or day (it wouldn't surprise me if they did).

Good point about being in the same stud space.  If the rooms have access to the same crawl or attic space then it should be pretty easy to go up or down into those areas for easy routing.  If they don't (as my current house doesn't) , then the run has to get much more "creative". 
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2006, 04:52:54 PM »

sometimes you even have to get the 3/4 inch 2.5" long electricians drill bit involved. Fun stuff.  thumbsdown
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2006, 05:05:48 PM »

I'm trying to run a line from my router in the office on the first floor to the tv room on the otherside of the house on the first floor.

i have the entire second floor wired, so ideally i could just splice into one of those lines (via the attic) and run just one line down the wall into the tv room.

So I guess a non-powered hub would be the way to go as my son is less than a year and won't be internetting any time soon. Is there one on monoprice or elsewhere? Linky? Typical cost?  And I'm guessing since I won't be running a long line, I don't need 100 ft.

So given that, tips/tricks/knowledge?
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2006, 05:25:52 PM »

I'd hire someone to do it.

But I'm lazy.  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2006, 05:34:07 PM »

You *could* go with something like this. I personally wouldn't. Here's why:

This is how ethernet works :contention-based networking (rather than something like Token Ring in which a "right of way" token is passed around.) Contention-based basically means that, in each network segment where no bridges, routers or switches are used, it's a party line with every device talking on the same channel. This means that every time your 360 checks the internet, your PC may have to wait. And vice versa. Over and over again, thousands of times per minute. That's just 3 devices; your 2 clients and the modem (using something like a hub). You can see why hubs aren't used beyond 16 ports, as there is a lot of contention on the network. It's also one of the reasons all the NAT routers act as switches on the "inside" network.

Now this is how ALL "Hubs" work. port1 sends packets looking for device on port3. To find it, it broadcasts the data to ports 2, 3 and 4. Port3's device acknowledges it by sending a packet back. Port3 sends this acknowledge to ports 1, 2, and 4, and port1's device responds in kind. If there is another device trying to send at the same time, they both stop, and wait a random period of time (micro-seconds) and try to resend. If there is someone else talking, they do it again. and again. and again.

A switched router is different. It keeps track of the IPs (and at a lower level the MAC addresses using ARP) and which ports. It also establishes private paths so there is no sharing of data paths inside. So when your 360 decides to get some internetting, the messages to-and-from the 360 will not ever hit your PC unless there is a broadcast (which is designed to hit all devices in it's subnet/network).

By introducing the hub on the line that the PC uses, you have now created a new physical sub-network in which everyone has to share. At the moment this won't be a big deal as ALL internet connections go through one port to your one modem, but if you decide to talk "inside" your network, as in streaming from PC to 360 or adding another PC, then whichever devices are on that splitter are going to get packets they don't need. This isn't terrible and may only cause an unnoticable blip,but there could also be packet collision or heavy traffic outside traffic that impacts your "inside" performance.

Also, you're adding another device you don't need.

You already have ports free on an "intelligent" switched router device, and you have a good working connection with your PC. Do you really want to bump that and risk your first time crimping cable ends and possibly degrade that performance BEYOND the packet collision and increased network contention on port1 while ports 2-4 go unnoccupied?

Given your layout, there is just as much work dropping the cable from the attic to your first floor room that needs the drop as to run a second drop ( as you already have the pathway from your office to the attic).

Your BEST bet (and best practice) is still to go with the 50 or 100ft line. Run the cable from your office down into basement or up to the attic using an interior wall (and the recommended weight / magnet combo) and then run it down the wall you need it to go for.

Don't cut lines, and dont introduce more work for yourself. You could even (depending on how your existing drop is configured) get it on a fancy new wall plate. These types of things make wives happy. (then you can use short patch cables to-and-from the router to the wall-plate.

[edited for clarity]
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 05:49:18 PM by Purge » Logged

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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2006, 05:53:06 PM »

One other thing you could do : move your switched router to the attic, and use a long line from the modem into it, and run a second line back down to the office. then you're using your attic (assuming it has power) as your wiring closet and everything moves from there down into the rooms. It makes good sense to do so. Better than adding a hub.

I assume you have 2 pcs and a network device like a 360 or PS2.
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2006, 05:57:40 PM »

I have one PC that's hardwired at all times through a switch to the router.

I have two other laptops that are used periodically throughout the week (either wired also through the switch or are wireless).

The 360 would be the new edition in the TV room.

I'll get up in the attic and see if I have access to the cables from the office. I'm guessing I would have to be able to see them...I'll chime back in a bit.
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2006, 06:26:47 PM »

here's some pics.

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« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2006, 03:17:36 AM »

I've been looking into wiring every room in the house for a gigabit network, but that gets pretty expensive when you get into the hardware required to do it. I'd end up spending more than $100 on the switch alone, and I'd need several hundred feet of cable :|
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« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2006, 03:25:35 AM »

I think all told, wiring my entire house was probably in the $400.00 range, and I did it myself.    Not cheap by a longshot, but since almost all of the rooms had major work going on, it was now or never...  I am sure whoever I sell the house to - if I sell it - will appreciate all of the work, and I will sneak the $400 into the selling price.   ninja
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« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2006, 10:37:38 AM »

Quote from: Thin_J on October 05, 2006, 03:17:36 AM

I've been looking into wiring every room in the house for a gigabit network, but that gets pretty expensive when you get into the hardware required to do it. I'd end up spending more than $100 on the switch alone, and I'd need several hundred feet of cable :|

Not really. Cabling is cheap (twisted pair) and using monoprice.com links above, it's 3 bux a room for the wallplates. You don't have to worry about distances and don't join any network segment before your switch. You've got ~300ft before you need to worry about signal attenuation. Go with the solid core cable for the walls, and use weaved patch cables from the jacks to devices.

Also, use ebay to cut down on the cost of your switch.
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« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2006, 02:12:04 PM »

I have absolutely no idea how to run a cable from the attic, through the wall of my master bedroom (which is directly above my office) and down into the wall of my office.  I can't see any existing cable, as I'm guessing they ran it through the floor before it was put in.

How do I determine where the heck I am in the attic in conjunction with where I want the cable to come down in my office?  After that, how do I burrow through the floor in the master bedroom (one can assume there is a layer of plywood or stud inbetween the floors) once I get there?
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« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2006, 02:17:31 PM »

Do you have a basement? I'd suggest running it there before going all the way up and then back down.

Also, where does the cable come out ? what kind of insulation does your house have (blown in, or the pink shit?).

if you've got a digital camera, take some pics of the existing cable (where it goes into walls, and then where it comes out) as well as any places it's exposed in the attic.
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2006, 02:18:19 PM »

No basements in NC.

Blown Insulation.

I've added a bit of text to the 2nd paragraph re: gettnig through the floor above....

Where does what cable come out?
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« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2006, 02:24:22 PM »

here's the other option : use wireless networking. slywink 54Mbps is pretty damned fast.  nod

joking aside, if they ran it through the floor then there should be space that you can get a cable through.

Also, most houses that use indoor plumbing have a stack that goes up for the sewer vent on the top of the house as there has to be an "open-air" vent above any drains and water faucets. THAT stack will have some opening that cables get run up. The interior space in there should be at least a 6 inch thick wall if not hidden behind some closet with a 2ft x 2ft kind of shaft.

Go into your attic and look for that stack. figure out if it's feasible to run it there.

Honestly though, if this seems daunting, plan EVERYTHING out and then get a cabling company to give you a price quote first. I'd hate for you to get into this and then curse my name for all ages.
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« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2006, 02:28:43 PM »

Quote from: ATB on October 05, 2006, 02:18:19 PM

No basements in NC.

sux. Is there crawlspace or is it on a concrete pad with floor joicts? (spelling on that word is questionable)

Quote from: ATB on October 05, 2006, 02:18:19 PM

Blown Insulation.
Yuck. Not my favorite. Cheap to put in, messy to work around. the 2nd story office network cable might go up and through that; you'd have to dig to find it.


Quote from: ATB on October 05, 2006, 02:18:19 PM

Where does what cable come out?

The network cables for router -> wall for 2nd story jack ... this is the cable I'm referring to.

Also, you may have more than one stack.
Do any of your rooms use suspended ceilings?
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« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2006, 02:49:05 PM »

Ok in chatting with my dad I think I have a solution (not necessarily due to his insights, but where they took me  Tongue).

I hope I can explain this:


Above the TV room is the classroom where we home school.  In this room there is a network jack (rarely used) and a tv jack.  When they wired the house originally, the forgot to put the tv jack in the tv room, so they spliced the cable from the classrom and ran it down into the tv room.

What I'm thinking is that I can repeat this same process with the network cable as follows:

I run the TVC (tv cat 5 cable) down into the wall of the classroom terminating one end there. 

I run the other end of the TVC next to where the pros ran the coax (will have to drill a bigger hole) and terminate the other end there into a network jack.

Back in the clasroom, I place my Netgear print server (which is currently not being used) and plug the TVC in there thus creating the following wiring scheme:


Cisco switch in Office <---direct line to---> Classroom <---direct line to ---> Print server <---TVC---> to TV room.

Questions:

Will the fact that it is a print server and not a switch result in what you described above (waiting for optimized 'traffic patterns'?)
Would I be better off with a switch in the classroom?  I'd only need 2 or 3 ports? Are they available that small/cheap?

Overall what you think?
 

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« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2006, 04:32:48 PM »

After you answer the above... another set of questions:

It looks like the ends of those cables are terminated...so I won't need any additional tools to terminate them, correct?

If yes, when I feed them down into the wall, should I take the ends off to avoid damage or just drop em down?

How do the jacks connect to the wall plates? Just pop em in?

Any particular reason you chose orange cables?  icon_wink

I'm thinking 50 ft of cable should be more than enough...any reason to get 100?
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« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2006, 05:30:28 PM »

I'm just glad you didn't move any closer to me.   :slywink:
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« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2006, 06:48:28 PM »

Oh Purge...where art though? I must get my order in by 2 PM PST for it to ship today. I have just about 2 hrs.


You're my only hope.
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« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2006, 07:23:49 PM »

ATB, ygpm.
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« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2006, 11:58:43 AM »

So what did you order?
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« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2006, 01:22:59 PM »

Everything you told me to, big daddy. Everything.
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