R&P Decision

[khomotso]

still no R&P forum, if you are looking for that, you are in the wrong forum

Was never a fan of the idea.  Just don't want to miss the water cooler talk that can range a bit.

[rrmorton]

Well...I have to admit, we are sailing into VERY uncharted water here.  Loren is dead on with my previous stance.  We locked and shot dead on sight any political threads of any sort.  That said, I recognize the needs to discuss current events and given the landscape those can turn political.  Give us some time on this...I wouldn't call it a change in policy as my decision hasn't changed (still no R&P forum, if you are looking for that, you are in the wrong forum) but I imagine we'll have a bit more tolerance than before...again, give us some time.

Sounds good to me.

I'm pretty sure most of the pro-R&P'ers would prefer what you're describing anyway... some news stories, current events, and debates sprinkled in the Everything But Gaming room was how we used to like it.

With more strict moderation, it could work great. It allows us the freedom to talk about whatever we please, but with a very low tolerance for "bullshittery" it won't upset people who hate flamey pissing contests.

And give us some time too. I think you'll be surprised by the general maturity level of 98.5% of your GG newbies.

[gbasden]

You also missed the splits in the GG history. There was the great Mod Uprising which resulted, I feel, in the complete joke that was the GG moderation upon the forum's demise last week, and there was the R&P split which caused several other long-timers to go off on their own. Hell, I was even getting sick of GG and would have lasted about a month more before leaving altogether and just staying over here where people were, you know, not acting like petulent children in need of a good smack down.

Wow. Sorry you felt that way, but I have to respectfully or not so respectfully disagree. I think in general the mods at GG did a great job of walking that fine line between facism and anarchy.

But what do I know - I'm just a petulant child.

[Tareeq]

Its not that I'm out of touch, its just that our growth numbers don't show some sort of spike like you describe.

The forum membership consists of 13 pages of names.  4.5 of those pages consist of members who joined before October 8.  To pick another measure, there are six pages of thread listed in this subforum.  DBT1949's first thread has already been pushed back to page 4.  Now obviously this unscientific sampling doesn't cover viewers who are here for your reviews, news, and front page (I've appreciated your reviews for some time), but to the extent that you have a community on a gaming website, it is in your forum.

All else is audience.

Nuff said from me.  You have a great site.  I'll continue to be part of your audience, and will remember to click through ads when I visit for reviews.  Thanks for tipping me off to the greatness that is Top Spin.

Back to GameSpy Arcade.

[Knightshade Dragon]

I'm asking...do me a personal favor.  Let that thread go.

[Zerthimon]

I hope that the former R&P people who posted their disapproval in this thread know about the clarification. Maybe we should start contacting them to make sure

[Grundbegriff]

A question like "Hey did you vote today?" is fine.  Something like "Did you see that piece on global warming?" is fine....

You wanna talk about the latest debate?  Do so with a bit of caution in the off topic forum and label it CLEARLY with [P] Debate in Tempe.

If we are permitted to raise political issues (properly labeled) in the "Off Topic" forum, then why does the caption for that forum say:
"Talk about anything you want other than Politics and Religion"

In what sense it talking about politics talking about something other than politics?

By the way: does "other than Religion" mean that it's OK to talk about religion if the thread's labeled "[R]"?

I mean these questions sincerely, not ironically.

[rrmorton]

As far as I can gather, Knightshade is doing his best to please the most members (old and new) while sort of flying by the seat of his pants. Understandable given what a crazy few days he's having with all this.

Perhaps that tagline under the Off Topic post will be altered in light of this?

May I suggest: "Talk about anything you want, just don't be an ass about it, okay?"

[khomotso]

If we are permitted to raise political issues (properly labeled) in the "Off Topic" forum, then why does the caption for that forum say:
"Talk about anything you want other than Politics and Religion"

I notice in the stickied forum policies, under the Religion and Politics heading, that item has been labeled "Under Review."  I think these little shifts are in process ... or under discussion.

give us some time.

[Knightshade Dragon]

As far as I can gather, Knightshade is doing his best to please the most members (old and new) while sort of flying by the seat of his pants.

To quote the cookie lady with the face gribbits from the Matrix..."Bingo"

[Grundbegriff]

As far as I can gather, Knightshade is doing his best to please the most members (old and new) while sort of flying by the seat of his pants. Understandable given what a crazy few days he's having with all this.

Perhaps that tagline under the Off Topic post will be altered in light of this?

I hope so.  I like the direction in which things seem to be trending.  I never cared for the separation of R & P from the rest of the offtopica anyhow.  But I do feel there ought to be room, in a mature off-topic forum, for substantive discussions of anything at all, including public policy and patterns of belief.

I'm not saying that this forum must conform to my ideal.  I am saying that it'd be nice to aim the swift sword of post-moderation at particular abuses rather than at broad, general topics -- especially when those topics are important enough to intersect nearly everything else.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Lets see how this goes...

[rrmorton]

For those of you unfamiliar with Grund, he talks like that all the time. It's wild stuff.

[rrmorton]

LOL! He took my suggestion and ran with it!

Too funny.

[Victoria Raverna]

So where are ex-gg R&P posters go if cg is not working for us? I think it is a sad thing that we'll probably have to split over two forum now. I just don't know where I'll spend most of my time.

I spent a lot of my time reading R&P topics and also 100% gaming addict. I feel like if I stay in CG, I'll have my gaming need fill but lack R&P. If I move to the new place that allow R&P, I'll have my R&P fill but probably not going to have enough gaming discussion.

This is why I never posted in CG forum before the GG  site was down. I like to have one place that fit all my need instead of spliting my time between forums. As a console gamer in addition to PC gaming, I probably could find more console info if I posted here, but instead I post on GG's console section.

[rrmorton]

Sounds like somebody read the first post and then wrote a reply.

Read the whole thread, Victoria!

[Captain Caveman]

V.R., read the clarifying edit. It might make you a happier camper.  

[Knightshade Dragon]

Victoria...read my clarification, try things out and see how it fits.  We saw that the idea for the media forum didn't fit, so we chucked it.  We are trying this out...lets see what happens, k?

[Victoria Raverna]

I read all messages but it kind of confusing since some of them contradict the others. I guess we'll wait and see then. But my comment was my feeling about if we can't have one place. I'm going to be very happy if I can just stay at CG and it'll be the only place that I need to be.

[Geezer]

Rarrely could it be said that I agree 100% with Grund, but damned if this isn't exactly 100% how I feel as well.

Slighty off-topic - SimHQ does a nice job of modding their offtopic conversations.  They allow topics to drift as they will, but as soon as someone gets nasty, they shut it down (and quick), and don't allow any bickering over the lockdown or whatnot.  It's pretty clear to everyone there what is or isn't allowed even though it's not specifically spelled out.

I think we (the newer community members here) certainly owe the CG staff a period of adjustment, but some "guidance by example" will be very helpful as well if the CG staff (understandably) isn't prepared to lay down hard and fast groundrules at this time.  CG wants us to give them a fair shake, and that's understandable, since in a sense much of this is being mad eup as we go along.  I'm sure CG will give the new members the same courtesy, in the end some semblance of understanding will occur.

As far as I can gather, Knightshade is doing his best to please the most members (old and new) while sort of flying by the seat of his pants. Understandable given what a crazy few days he's having with all this.

Perhaps that tagline under the Off Topic post will be altered in light of this?

I hope so.  I like the direction in which things seem to be trending.  I never cared for the separation of R & P from the rest of the offtopica anyhow.  But I do feel there ought to be room, in a mature off-topic forum, for substantive discussions of anything at all, including public policy and patterns of belief.

I'm not saying that this forum must conform to my ideal.  I am saying that it'd be nice to aim the swift sword of post-moderation at particular abuses rather than at broad, general topics -- especially when those topics are important enough to intersect nearly everything else.

[Poleaxe]

Ron-

I'm posting to disagree with you. GG was a great gaming site (more on that later), but it was R&P/EBG that was the heart of GoneGold.

It was the talk-about-anything-you-want vibe that made the community so strong. It was the conversations that had nothing to do with gaming that engendered the loyalty of the community to GG and for each other. I can't illustrate this point better than to tell you that I have seen people who I know are industry veterans for major devs post recipes and seek dating advice. Does that sound like only a gaming site?

The funny thing is that even after the front page died, GG was still a great gaming site. I doubt anyone from GG would disagree with me when I say that GG forum game reviews were a 100% more reliable than what the professionals put out. We had a much better handle on how the betas for many games were progressing than most mags and sites. Often we had better lists of mods for existing games than sites dedicated to those games. Do I need to mention the trading forum and the importance of a good rep? Pay it forward freebies?

All of this sprang from the friendships that developed while disparate people discussed (and argued) about what was happening in our lives.


So I respect your wish to keep the site and forums heading in a direction of your choosing, but I hope you also realize that a strong community (the kind that lives on past the demise of the forum   ) is built around more than just games. Controversial topics, and tubgirl, are part of life.

[Knightshade Dragon]

I'm posting to disagree with you. GG was a great gaming site (more on that later), but it was R&P/EBG that was the heart of GoneGold.

You and I are going to disagree highly on R&P being the heart of Gone Gold.  I'll accept EBG, but R&P wasn't initiated and/or signed off on by Rich, so we'll agree to disagree.

I didn't say it was ONLY about gaming...I know all about the community, I had a few grand in posts myself remember.  Now, I didn't need dating advice, my wife would have frowned on that, but I can think of many a situation where I asked for GG's help.  I don't suspect that'll be any different here...in time.

[Grievous Angel]

Thanks, KD. I'll never be an active participant in controversial topics (music threads are more my thing), but I appreciate you giving the users enough rope to hang ourselves with.  

[rrmorton]

I agree with you, Victoria, about one stop forum shopping.

Nice post, Poleaxe.

Ron, I bet by R&P/EBG he meant the whole ball of wax the way it used to be before they moved R&P into a separate area. You're right about R&P the room, but Rich did want a forum where anything goes. Of course, most of that was just his good nature and his internet naivete. Six years later, we all have a lot more experience with the highlights and pitfalls of chatting on online forums.

[Poleaxe]

Ron, I bet by R&P/EBG he meant the whole ball of wax the way it used to be before they moved R&P into a separate area.

I did. Thanks, Rob.

[ravenvii]

KD, I'm one of those who disagreed with your ban on R+P discussion.

But I'll have to say that I'm much happier with the clarification. Many of us, including me, wants EBG back. The freedom of discussions of anything we want is the reason I stayed ag GoneGold. I went there at first for the game discussion, but EBG is what kept me going there. I agree with Poleaxe that EBG is the heart and soul of GoneGold.

With the clarification/revision, I hope Off Topic will become the EBG of old, pre-R+P Forum days, where we debate politics and religion in EBG, yet the R+P threads never flooded the forums. Our inability to moderate ourselves is evident when it became so overwhelming that Bill made the R+P forums, but with the tight moderation here, perhaps a split won't be necessary.

[Grundbegriff]

LOL! He took my suggestion and ran with it!
Too funny.

A man of influence.

Since I registered dissatisfaction about the earlier editorial stance,  I should say in response to this latest (tentative) editorial policy that more freedom to speak but less tolerance of asshattery is the best scenario of all.

[RunningMn9]

KD:

Want to hear the most hilarious part?  I have no idea what you are talking about.  I didn't know that there was a big rift until long after it had happened.

Fair enough.  Just imagine lots of people posting like WBS.    I would link you to the thread(s) in particular...but...well, you know.

Its not that I'm out of touch, its just that our growth numbers don't show some sort of spike like you describe.

You haven't seen a spike in membership since Friday?  Is there a confused emoticon?  I was referring the the mass of people that are most likely to have come here in the last few days, and stay here.  That crowd of people.

If you thought I meant a mass exodus around the time of the Great Schism - I did not.

[Raven]

Once the political discussions started getting nasty, the R+P forum was created, but it was already too late. I think the political discussions lead to an overall snarky attitude that seemed to filter into every part of GG. I just started noticing more and more people being jerks, and it all seemed to start with the political arguments.

I also theorized that some people posting in R+P didn't give a shit about GG, or really gaming, for that matter. They just wanted to get "their message" out, and now that ND won't let them stand on a soapbox, they'll stop coming around, because gaming was never the reason they visited anyway.

R+P took more from GG than it gave back, and ND is smart to follow his gut instinct.

[jblank]

Well...I have to admit, we are sailing into VERY uncharted water here.  Loren is dead on with my previous stance.  We locked and shot dead on sight any political threads of any sort.  That said, I recognize the needs to discuss current events and given the landscape those can turn political.  Give us some time on this...I wouldn't call it a change in policy as my decision hasn't changed (still no R&P forum, if you are looking for that, you are in the wrong forum) but I imagine we'll have a bit more tolerance than before...again, give us some time.

Just checked back in and I am glad I did. Ron, just want to personally thank you for the clarification, and I appreciate you at least recognizing that there is some desire for some political discussion. I know that I appreciate it, as I am sure others do, and I hope that everyone behaves well and acts with respect when engaging in political discussions. Thanks again!

[JayDee]

The R+P issue has no bearing on my decision to stay. The only thing that would make me search for another forum is if the site continued to be Console only. However, I already see some positive things happening with the creation of the new PC Games forum. I'm looking forward to seeing some PC content on the front page in the future.

I'm gonna stick around.

[RunningMn9]

I also theorized that some people posting in R+P didn't give a shit about GG, or really gaming, for that matter. They just wanted to get "their message" out, and now that ND won't let them stand on a soapbox, they'll stop coming around, because gaming was never the reason they visited anyway.

R+P took more from GG than it gave back, and ND is smart to follow his gut instinct.

I call shenanigans on this absurd notion.

edit:  I'm not calling shenanigans on KD and is decison - he absolutely should be following his gut instinct, even when that precludes my desires.  I'm calling shenanigans on this absurd characterization of the R&P posters.

[Poleaxe]

Once the political discussions started getting nasty, the R+P forum was created, but it was already too late. I think the political discussions lead to an overall snarky attitude that seemed to filter into every part of GG. I just started noticing more and more people being jerks, and it all seemed to start with the political arguments.

I also theorized that some people posting in R+P didn't give a shit about GG, or really gaming, for that matter. They just wanted to get "their message" out, and now that ND won't let them stand on a soapbox, they'll stop coming around, because gaming was never the reason they visited anyway.

R+P took more from GG than it gave back, and ND is smart to follow his gut instinct.

I'm interested in gaming and politics. Shocking but true.

[Knightshade Dragon]

Then try Ubisoft's Political Machine! </advertising>  

Sorry, couldn't resist.  

(I see myself using that smiley a lot)

[Thin_J]

I was one who was happy when the R&P forum was created. Not because I felt it brought anything particular to the site, but because It filtered all of the posts I more or less had no desire to read into one easily avoidable place.

It allowed me to read the EBG boards without filtering past all of those threads about something I have no desire to talk about on the internet.

I was particularly happy with the complete and total lack of Politics and Religion on the entire board here.

Honestly, I might have been happier if the R&P forum did exist if we're going to allow political posts in the Off-Topic boards. But I'm just one little guy in a big group.

Do what you will. I'm not going anywhere regardless. I just might spend a lot less time in the Off-Topic boards than I normally would.

I'll always be here for the gaming.

[gameoverman]

I'm late to the party, but I just want to say I think it was a wise decision to omit the R&P section.

My last memory of R&P at GG was of someone named Dolphan starting a bunch of election related threads THEN someone else starting a thread where other people bashed on Dolphan for starting those threads, even though Dolphan was violating no rules(even according to the mods). Basically calling him a troll and such.  That, to me, was typical.  Sure, there were some nuggets of value, but the signal to noise ratio was never good. I think Console Gold is doing well to avoid even going in that direction a little bit.

Heck, just reading a couple of pages of this thread, or any other thread relating to R&P here at CG, is enough to give everyone an idea of the bad attitude and negative vibes that R&P attracts.

I'm not sad to see THAT go.

edit: haha! That'll teach me. I posted this without looking at the OffTopic page in its entirety first.  I saw this sticky thread, read a couple pages into it, then included my thoughts. Interesting developments to be sure, this could be fun.  I guess I should read the rest of this thread now... :?

edit2: okay, now I see where we're at. I guess now we see if things will be different this time.

[Rhinohelix]

It got ugly with the politics in EBG, then there was the split, which actually made the ugliness worse, gave it license.   As long as they are modded aggressively, I think that they will not reach the depths they reached before.

That is not a slap at the GG mods.  Everyone did the best they could under the circumstances.  These, however, are different circumstances.

Rhino

[Knightshade Dragon]

I'll do my best here.  I'll use my best judgement on hiring people I can trust as well.

[whiteboyskim]

I'll do my best here.  I'll use my best judgement on hiring people I can trust as well.

[warning]

I'll do my best here.  I'll use my best judgement on hiring people I can trust as well.