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Author Topic: R&P Decision  (Read 19494 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: October 12, 2004, 07:15:02 PM »

All,

We promised that we'd have a final decision on the fate of a R&P forum here at ConsoleGold today, and here is our decision for better or worse.

When we first launched our own forums, we had decided against launching our own R&P forum for many reasons (not the least of which was the fact that Gone Gold already had their own forum dedicated for that purpose). With the unfortunate loss of Gone Gold, we wanted to do what we could to help out the community. Fortunately for us, most of the things that we've needed to do to support the GG refugees were already in our long range plans. So most of the things that we've done over the last few days has really just been speeding up our timelines rather than causing us to change our vision.

With that being said, we did listen to all of the requests for an R&P forum here at CG and wanted to give it a lot of careful consideration.

Quite simply, we just don't see it fitting into our long range plans of building a great place for gamers on the web.

This was a very hard decision to make, and I know it will be dissapointing to some of you and for that I apologize. We understand that some of you may leave because of this decision (just as some have said they will stay because of it), but we needed to remain true to our vision. Gone Gold was truly something special - the likes of which would be impossible to ever re-create. Rich was the heart of Gone Gold, and it was his vision and love for the community that really built Gone Gold into the place it was.

Being children of that vision, we obviously loved everything that Rich had done with Gone Gold, and have strived to allow that same heart and his influence affect everything that we do here as well, but we're not Rich and we recognize that there are just some things that could never work here because of that.  

Comments in here please.

*edit*  It's not nice to say comments in here and then make it an announcement where people can't comment. slywink  Sorry.


** Edit ** Apparently I was unclear.  Here is a paste in from later in the conversation -
Ok here's the situation. I want to re-clarify our stance. Nobody is censoring anyone here.  A question like "Hey did you vote today?" is fine.  Something like "Did you see that piece on global warming?" is fine.  Something like "Hey, I think Kerry is a baby killing psycho, and only a cock-swilling psycho would vote for him!" is not fine.  Each thread will be evaluated on an individual basis but we are not going to be dedicating a forum to it.  We are not going to be encouraging political discussion here because, as I've explained before, it doesn't fit what we do here.  We are a gaming site.  GONE GOLD was a gaming site.   You wanna talk about the latest debate?  Do so with a bit of caution in the off topic forum and label it CLEARLY with [P] Debate in Tempe.  The second I think we have gotten into some assinine immature non-productive bullshitery I'll lock the thread.
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Ron Burke
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« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2004, 07:18:27 PM »

Ron, without saying whether I agree or disagree, I can say that I respect your decision.

- Don
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RunningMn9
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« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2004, 07:20:34 PM »

That's cool.  As I said in the other thread - I don't think it's right for anyone to expect that ConsoleGold bend to accomodate GG refugees.  It has to be the other way around.  If posters don't like that, and don't want this to be their forum home - then they need to keep looking.

I can understand people wanting one-stop shopping.  That's what will ultimately keep me away from serious participation here.  But I understand that this isn't my site, and I have absolutely no right to demand or expect anything.

You guys have been MORE than accomodating.
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2004, 07:23:19 PM »

It's your board, and I respect your decision.

But it's very sad, because for me, this is the moment when the GG community died. I wasn't a member of GG for a great length of time, just the last few months, but I'm going to miss the discussions that were part of that board.

Best of luck with CG.
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2004, 07:24:19 PM »

Some trails are happy ones,
Others are blue.
It's the way you ride the trail that counts,
Here's a happy one for you.

Happy trails to you,
Until we meet again.
Happy trails to you,
Keep smilin' until then.

Who cares about the clouds when we'ere together?
Just sing a song, and bring the sunny weather.

Happy trails to you,
Til we meet again.


Its your site, you call the shots, and although I think you guys made a big mistake with your decision, its your decision to make. Well, my luggage is in the lobby, so I am checking out of CG very soon. Hate it had to end this way, but I will still check out your main site for news and info, but at this point, the forums will not be someplace I choose to frequent.

For all intents and purposes, you have closed the book on a part of Gone Gold, and from the way it looks, that book isnt going to be opened again. Obviously, to you, this is irrelevant, but to people like me, and many others, its a bit of a slap in the face, because I dont think our wishes  were REALLY considered, nor do I believe that in the long run, we were really given a chance here.
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2004, 07:24:53 PM »

I agree with Running Man, and I haven't even been drinking.  While this may not please some people (and even though I would have enjoyed a R&P forum here), IMO it probably fits the tone and spirit of the site best.  It's your site, make it what you want of it.  I'm sure that I'll stop by, and people who want R&P will find other homes.
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2004, 07:25:04 PM »

You've already bent over backwards for the GG refugees and I sincerely thank you for that.

Whether or not R&P has it's own section is no big deal to me. I'm sure there will be plenty of it in the Off Topic area, and I have no problem with that.

I would like a separate area for Half Life 2 discussion since we all know it is the absolute best game ever, period.
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« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2004, 07:26:13 PM »

I shall be checking what the GG mods set up before unpacking my bags too much.
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jblank
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« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2004, 07:29:45 PM »

Quote from: "Mr. Fed"
I agree with Running Man, and I haven't even been drinking.  While this may not please some people (and even though I would have enjoyed a R&P forum here), IMO it probably fits the tone and spirit of the site best.  It's your site, make it what you want of it.  I'm sure that I'll stop by, and people who want R&P will find other homes.


But will we find a home that has the intelligence, fairness, spirit, and fun that we had with GG members? I doubt it.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2004, 07:32:39 PM »

Quote
Obviously, to you, this is irrelevant, but to people like me, and many others, its a bit of a slap in the face, because I dont think our wishes were REALLY considered, nor do I believe that in the long run, we were really given a chance here.
Obviously you haven't paid too much attention to the many things that we have done to this site to make it better for all invovled.  I care deeply for the community, and I won't have you or anyone else slander that jblank.  The whole reason why I waited this long was to weigh the tons of email and private messages I received.  I looked at the angles and I looked at the costs and benifits.  Don't say that I don't care...I haven't slept more than a few hours in days because I've dedicated it all to this site and the recent transitions.
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« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2004, 07:33:28 PM »

Quote from: "PaulBot"
Whether or not R&P has it's own section is no big deal to me. I'm sure there will be plenty of it in the Off Topic area, and I have no problem with that.


Actually, no.  It will be locked on sight.  That's why people like jblank are upset.

EDIT:  Just want to reiterate my support for KD's decision, regardless of the effect it will have on my longevity here.  He does NOT deserve the post that jblank put in here.
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« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2004, 07:33:52 PM »

Just out of curiosity, KD, would the Fox FCC fine story I mentioned in the last page of the "Everyone read please" thread be acceptable or not?  I'd like to know what the mods' limits are before I start any thread that would get quickly locked.
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2004, 07:34:29 PM »

Quote from: "PaulBot"
I would like a separate area for Half Life 2 discussion since we all know it is the absolute best game ever, period.
Ahh - but they're you assuming that people would be willing to stop playing long enough to log onto the forum and write about it.  :lol:
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2004, 07:34:35 PM »

Quote from: "jblank"
Quote from: "Mr. Fed"
I agree with Running Man, and I haven't even been drinking.  While this may not please some people (and even though I would have enjoyed a R&P forum here), IMO it probably fits the tone and spirit of the site best.  It's your site, make it what you want of it.  I'm sure that I'll stop by, and people who want R&P will find other homes.


But will we find a home that has the intelligence, fairness, spirit, and fun that we had with GG members? I doubt it.


We won't find it. I've posted at a dozen or more web boards that deal with politics, and never found one as impressive and balanced as what we had at GoneGold. And it died on Friday.

Given the way the bulk of refugees came here, this was probably our only chance to recreate anything approaching it. If we try to move en masse to an unrelated board or create a new one, most folks won't follow, and all that will be produced is a hollow echo of what was.

I appreciate the staff here at CG for giving so many of us refugees a home here, even if I'm one of the ones left out.

And I've never been more angry about the way that GG shut down without warning.
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2004, 07:35:10 PM »

frown   That's too bad. Though I can't claim to completely understanding the rational behind the decision, it's your site and thus you have to decide what you think is best for the forums. I'm sure I'll still stick around for the gaming sections, though I doubt I'll be checking in every 15 minutes at work as I did on GG; I guess now I'll actually do work at work.  :wink:  

On a side note, if any of the ex-R&P posters decide on one site to continue posting about politics on, please let me know. I would hate to lose my chance to gloat over Bush's upcoming defeat....  :wink:
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2004, 07:36:03 PM »

It's your toy, to play with as you see fit.  Thank youi for the hospitality these last few days.
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2004, 07:36:21 PM »

Well I guess we will just agree to disagree then Ron. I never got any explanation as to how creating a seperate forum, to debate R & P type topics, was somehow going to pollute your site. At this point, I still have no idea why you chose the way you did. Also, I never questioned that you didnt care, I just questioned how much of a real shot we got at having the forum here.
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2004, 07:37:36 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"

But it's very sad, because for me, this is the moment when the GG community died.


The Gonegold community died when Gonegold's plug was pulled.  While all of you may have come here for a brief period of time, you did so as new members of the Console Gold community.

The nature of the supposedly forthcoming 'fracture' of the remaining Gonegold community is in itself proof of the fact that the discussion of Religion and Politics was a contentious issue at Gonegold.  Don't forget that Console Gold was humming along happily before Gonegold disappeared and that it will continue to hum along happily afterwards, other than sadness for the disappearance of the site that spawned it.

For one, I think that KD has made the correct decision.  Console Gold should continue to be what it was 10 days ago, and that plan never included an R & P forum.
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RunningMn9
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2004, 07:39:13 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
On a side note, if any of the ex-R&P posters decide on one site to continue posting about politics on, please let me know. I would hate to lose my chance to gloat over Bush's upcoming defeat....  :wink:


Now he has to lock his own announcement thread.  slywink
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2004, 07:39:38 PM »

Quote from: "RunningMn9"
Quote from: "PaulBot"
Whether or not R&P has it's own section is no big deal to me. I'm sure there will be plenty of it in the Off Topic area, and I have no problem with that.


Actually, no.  It will be locked on sight.  That's why people like jblank are upset.

EDIT:  Just want to reiterate my support for KD's decision, regardless of the effect it will have on my longevity here.  He does NOT deserve the post that jblank put in here.


What praytell is wrong with what I said? All I did was offer my opinion that it looked to me like we really never had a chance. That was it. I then said that I dont believe we had a chance to prove that the R & P forum would have worked, which is a real shame. I think you, and Ron, both read what you wanted to into my post, rather than trying to catch the real meaning behind it.

I assure you, although I am not happy, no malice exists towards him, his staff, or his site, and if you took my post as containing malice, then you misread it.
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« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2004, 07:41:19 PM »

Quote from: "Balshazaar"
The nature of the supposedly forthcoming 'fracture' of the remaining Gonegold community is in itself proof of the fact that the discussion of Religion and Politics was a contentious issue at Gonegold.


That's absurd. The fracture will occur because some of us were at GG mainly for EBG/R&P, while others were there for the main forums. The fact that not everyone posted in R&P doesn't make R&P's existence "contentious."
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« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2004, 07:41:30 PM »

Remember, this is Console Gold, NOT Gone Gold.  It should remain that way.  Also, remember that this is an INTERNET FORUM.  Nothing more, nothing less.  As others have said, this forum ran fine before the demise of GG, and will run fine afterwards.  I'm here to stay.  If you don't like the fact that there will be no R&P forum, well, that's your loss.

Remember, Off-Topic, here, was always R&P free.  Why should Ron have to change what already was a good thing just because another site died?

Mike
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RunningMn9
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« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2004, 07:41:41 PM »

Also, to any R&P'ers that want to keep up the hope that some semblance of the R&P community can rise from the ashes, either keep checking here for an announcement from the former GG staff, or email me and I will let you know when it's up.
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« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2004, 07:43:04 PM »

From my perspective as a mod, reporting the news is fair game (such as the Fox FCC fine or whatever), but if the continuing discussion in that thread delves into the political landscape of things, it will be closed.

I noted in another thread (I don't remember which one) where Ralph Wiggum asked a few questions that I would allow news of a politician dying (for instance), but that we talk more about the person than their political past or what they mean from a political point of view.  There were other questions he asked, but I forget what they were.
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« Reply #24 on: October 12, 2004, 07:43:13 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Balshazaar"
The nature of the supposedly forthcoming 'fracture' of the remaining Gonegold community is in itself proof of the fact that the discussion of Religion and Politics was a contentious issue at Gonegold.


That's absurd. The fracture will occur because some of us were at GG mainly for EBG/R&P, while others were there for the main forums. The fact that not everyone posted in R&P doesn't make R&P's existence "contentious."


EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Perfectly said.
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rrmorton
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« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2004, 07:43:40 PM »

Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.
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« Reply #26 on: October 12, 2004, 07:44:26 PM »

Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.
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« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2004, 07:47:26 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Balshazaar"
The nature of the supposedly forthcoming 'fracture' of the remaining Gonegold community is in itself proof of the fact that the discussion of Religion and Politics was a contentious issue at Gonegold.


That's absurd. The fracture will occur because some of us were at GG mainly for EBG/R&P, while others were there for the main forums. The fact that not everyone posted in R&P doesn't make R&P's existence "contentious."


Since you were only there for a few months, then I guess you never saw the huge arguments that happened when the split was made.
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« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2004, 07:47:31 PM »

Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.


Neither were things in EBG. Or in PC Games by Title (Derek Smart, anyone?). That doesn't necessarily mean that, as a whole, those forums were contentious.
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« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2004, 07:48:57 PM »

Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.


Neither were things in EBG. Or in PC Games by Title (Derek Smart, anyone?). That doesn't necessarily mean that, as a whole, those forums were contentious.


But R&P, by nature, is a far more divisive subject, thereby leading to larger headaches when things explode.

Mike
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« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2004, 07:48:58 PM »

Actually, the R&P at GG was remarkably civil for an Internet Board, specifically because the main thrust of the site was NOT politics or religion, thus what you had was a cross cut of folks who had some other general interest connecting them, instead of a board dominated, or even created, by one group of partisans to beat up on another group of partisans.

Was it always civil? Of course not.

But neither were all of the gaming subforums, either. People argue. Tempers flare. But the R&P community endured, and some of us are obviously still fighting (futilely at this point) for its continued endurance, because by and large the threads were respectful, the tone informative and the trolls easily identified and few and far between.

There's no reason that sort of interaction could not also be displaced to here, as have the PC gaming conversations, other than fiat of the leaders of this board, which I accept. But to propose that the notion is untenable is not supported by the facts.
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« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2004, 07:50:11 PM »

Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.


Show me a forum, any forum, that talks about anything, where its "always" civil. As someone that was in R & P far more than you were, I think I can speak with some experience that the GG R & P forum, was more calm and civil than 90% of the gaming forums I have belonged to in my life. I have seen forums for Network professionals that are far more vicious than anything that ever took place in GG R & P.
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« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2004, 07:50:49 PM »

Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.

Arguably the factioning of the GG community started well before R&P even came up as an idea in this forum or when the mass influx happened in this forum.  In fact, it was probably "alive" within a day of GG being down.  There were already other plans to start up another forum.  I know where that forum is, but I have no idea of their plans.
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« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2004, 07:52:08 PM »

Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Actually, the R&P at GG was remarkably civil for an Internet Board, specifically because the main thrust of the site was NOT politics or religion, thus what you had was a cross cut of folks who had some other general interest connecting them, instead of a board dominated, or even created, by one group of partisans to beat up on another group of partisans.

Was it always civil? Of course not.

But neither were all of the gaming subforums, either. People argue. Tempers flare. But the R&P community endured, and some of us are obviously still fighting (futilely at this point) for its continued endurance, because by and large the threads were respectful, the tone informative and the trolls easily identified and few and far between.

There's no reason that sort of interaction could not also be displaced to here, as have the PC gaming conversations, other than fiat of the leaders of this board, which I accept. But to propose that the notion is untenable is not supported by the facts.


Kirk, that was perfectly said.
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« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2004, 07:52:21 PM »

Thanks for giving it consideration.  That's far more than you were obligated to.
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« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2004, 07:52:58 PM »

Quote from: "Balshazaar"
Quote from: "Fireball1244"
Quote from: "Balshazaar"
The nature of the supposedly forthcoming 'fracture' of the remaining Gonegold community is in itself proof of the fact that the discussion of Religion and Politics was a contentious issue at Gonegold.


That's absurd. The fracture will occur because some of us were at GG mainly for EBG/R&P, while others were there for the main forums. The fact that not everyone posted in R&P doesn't make R&P's existence "contentious."


Since you were only there for a few months, then I guess you never saw the huge arguments that happened when the split was made.


Perhaps there were arguments when the split was made. I've been on other boards when the general news and political commentary threads were pulled apart from one another, so i can imagine what it was like. But the split worked very, very well.
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« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2004, 07:53:47 PM »

Here's what I think the problem is-

Gone Gold was pretty much just a message board for so long that people forgot/ never knew that it was once an awesome site about GAMING.  If anything, we here at CG want to carry on the spirit of that era of the site.  Those of you who went to the site JUST so you could post in R&P are missing the point of what we are trying to do here at Console Gold.

Gone Gold's staff consisted primarily of forum moderators, and that's all they had to do.  We, on the other hand, write reviews, previews, post news, create custom graphics, go out to the game publishers for special events, generally keep our finger on the pulse of console gaming (and soon PC gaming)- that's what this site is really about.  The forums have always been and always will be secondary.

That's not to say that our COMMUNITY will be secondary.  On the contrary, Eldon, our staff programmer, has some shit cookin' that will give the community more tools at their disposal for the sharing of gaming love than either site ever had.  There are some truly awesome things in the works, and we've only just started.

(my fave emoticon -> unibrow )
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Mike Dunn
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Fireball
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« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2004, 07:55:34 PM »

Quote from: "jblank"
Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.


Show me a forum, any forum, that talks about anything, where its "always" civil. As someone that was in R & P far more than you were, I think I can speak with some experience that the GG R & P forum, was more calm and civil than 90% of the gaming forums I have belonged to in my life. I have seen forums for Network professionals that are far more vicious than anything that ever took place in GG R & P.


The R&P forum was tame compared not only to most R&P forums, but to every Mac vs. Windows forum I've ever been in. To say nothing, a few years ago, of the DVD vs. Divx wars.

At least most arguments regarding R&P are rational, which is hardly the case for most platform wars.
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Fireball
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« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2004, 07:58:19 PM »

Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "Ralph-Wiggum"
Quote from: "pr0ner"
Quote from: "rrmorton"
Guess that's decided. I don't like the decision and now I'm worried about the comunity drifting off in different directions. It's not the R&P forum I want so much as the respect and faith in the coimmunity to discuss whatever they want in a civl manner.


Things at R&P on GG were never always civil.


Neither were things in EBG. Or in PC Games by Title (Derek Smart, anyone?). That doesn't necessarily mean that, as a whole, those forums were contentious.


But R&P, by nature, is a far more divisive subject, thereby leading to larger headaches when things explode.


Which is why some of us who are most committed to the notion of continuing the sort of reasoned, rational and mostly amicable R&P discussions that were part of the GG community offered to put our efforts where I keyboards are and take on any moderating/policing duties required to sustain such a sub-forum.
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Abiding Dude
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« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2004, 08:02:48 PM »

I thought I heard rumors of someone else forming a more permanent alternative to the Gone Gold community.  Since the priorities of Console Gold are obviously different than those of a potential new community, I would be interested in getting some more information about a new board.  Truthfully I was so happy when I saw the new forums on Console Gold and seeing some of the old crowd around nearly brought a tear to my eye smile  But I have to agree with some of the folks here that if certain political (and most likely alot of news items) subjects are off-limits then the spirit of Gone Gold will surely not take root here.   Which is unfortunate for me and unfortunate for this board in the long run I suspect.
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