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Question: Did the Rocket use illegal substances?
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Author Topic: Roger Clemens y'all  (Read 489 times)
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Lockdown
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« on: January 08, 2008, 12:51:48 PM »

So by now, I'm sure most of us saw or heard indirectly, about the 60 minutes interview and/or the press conference.

Thoughts?

I'll give mine, since I started the thread.  I am a HUGE believer in innocent until proven guilty, and that extends to the court of public opinion, which right now, is where this topic still resides.

So I won't jump on the 'crucify Roger' wagon yet.  But... I sure would have liked him to have handled that phone conversation a little differently, and I wish he and his former trainer hadn't danced around the main issue so much.  Then again, I'm not a lawyer, and don't even remotely understand what was advisable and not advisable to say over the course of that phone conversation.

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denoginizer
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« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2008, 01:03:30 PM »

I really do not care if he used steroids or not.  I don't care about Bonds either.  I would guess that at least half of the players in the early 2000's were using something anyway.

I blame Bud Selig for launching a pointless investigation instead of just letting the matter die.  The NFL had a much bigger steroid problem than baseball ever did and nobody cares. That's because they implemented strict testing and moved on.  Baseball should do the same. 

Now if Bonds is proven to have lied to a grand jury then he should by all means go to jail.  Same with Clemens if he is proven to be lying when he goes before Congress.

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Lockdown
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« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2008, 01:15:47 PM »

I understand where you're coming from, honestly I do.  But I think the Mitchell Report has become a big deal, and the future of baseball as a sport (at least to a certain degree) rides on what happens over the next year. 

Listening to Mike & Mike this morning, they more or less said baseball is getting exactly what they deserve in this entire fiasco, and I agree.  I think people are going to look back on this whole thing and realize just how poorly Baseball execs handled this entire thing from the get-go.

But I love the sport and I follow things like this.  I care quite a bit how it all shakes out.  And right now, it ain't shakin' so good.

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denoginizer
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« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2008, 01:23:33 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on January 08, 2008, 01:15:47 PM

I understand where you're coming from, honestly I do.  But I think the Mitchell Report has become a big deal, and the future of baseball as a sport (at least to a certain degree) rides on what happens over the next year. 

I think it's a big deal because the media have made it a big deal.  I honestly don't think the average fan cares about people taking steroids 5 years ago.  Baseball attendance has never been higher.  Shawn Merriman got suspended 4 games for using steroids last season and still finished second in the defensive player of the year voting.  Why do people care are what happened in baseball 5 years ago but no one talks about something that happened just last season in the NFL? 

If Selig would just assure fans that players of today are being tested and are 100% clean right now, I really think people would be fine with that.

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ATB
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« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2008, 02:32:04 PM »

Quote from: Lockdown on January 08, 2008, 01:15:47 PM

But I think the Mitchell Report has become a big deal, and the future of baseball as a sport (at least to a certain degree) rides on what happens over the next year. 

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Sports fans are fickle but have short memories (I guess that's Americans as a whole).  The game will always live on whether they do something or not.

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Teggy
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2008, 03:05:02 PM »

Before yesterday I was definitely in the "probably did it" camp.  After listening to that phone call I am in the "very confused" camp.  That was very weird to listen to - Clemens was obviously choosing his words very carefully and McNamee was very paranoid about people listening in (for good reason, eh?)  The explanation they gave on ESPN as to why Clemens never responded to the "What do you want me to do?" question is that it could amount to witness tampering. The fact that McNamee offered to go to jail didn't look too good.

I'm curious as to what was in the e-mail that was sent.  It sounded like McNamee wanted Clemens to back off because he has a sick child and couldn't afford to go to jail right now. McNamee never says that he lied in the call (afraid to get that on tape?), but he also never corrects Roger when he says that he didn't do steroids.

The question remains that if McNamee told the truth about several players (Pettitte, etc.), why would he lie in such a detailed way about Clemens?  Is it possible that the investigators threatened to send him to jail unless he gave them something good on Clemens?

I was most surprised by how friendly the two men were towards each other.  Shouldn't Clemens have been really pissed at McNamee if he told all sorts of lies?
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Lockdown
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2008, 03:18:05 PM »

I agree.  The entire phone conversation was bizarre.  It was like two people talking without saying anything.  What I don't get is how willing Clemens seems to be (now) to go out and talk about things.  If he is indeed guilty of what McNamee is claiming, I would think he would be much less willing to speak to the government, and certainly much less willing to lie over and over and over again in public. 

But I really don't know, as Marion Jones was adamant as well, and look how that turned out...

 
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gellar
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2008, 03:57:42 PM »

Quote from: denoginizer on January 08, 2008, 01:03:30 PM

I really do not care if he used steroids or not.  I don't care about Bonds either.  I would guess that at least half of the players in the early 2000's were using something anyway.

I blame Bud Selig for launching a pointless investigation instead of just letting the matter die.  The NFL had a much bigger steroid problem than baseball ever did and nobody cares. That's because they implemented strict testing and moved on.  Baseball should do the same. 

Now if Bonds is proven to have lied to a grand jury then he should by all means go to jail.  Same with Clemens if he is proven to be lying when he goes before Congress.



Was gonna post my thoughts... but someone already did that for me.  Well said, deno.

gellar
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