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Author Topic: Pot, Coke, Heroin, Extacy + Legal in Mexico = New Drug War  (Read 1685 times)
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Knightshade Dragon
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« on: April 29, 2006, 12:00:54 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/04/28/mexico.drugs.ap/index.html

Sweet Merciful Christ I wish I was making this up.  *shakes head*  As if the war on drugs wasn't a money sink joke before, now we can count on our illegals carrying over their 'personal stash' while we are at it.

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The bill says criminal charges will no longer be brought for possession of up to 25 milligrams of heroin, 5 grams of marijuana (about one-fifth of an ounce, or about four joints), or 0.5 grams of cocaine -- the equivalent of about 4 "lines," or half the standard street-sale quantity (though half-size packages are becoming more common).

"No charges will be brought against ... addicts or consumers who are found in possession of any narcotic for personal use," according to the Senate bill, which also lays out allowable quantities for an array of other drugs, including LSD, ecstasy and amphetamines.
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« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2006, 12:50:57 PM »

Woo-hoo!! I'm only a half hour away from my new pharmacy!! Yeah, what a joke.
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« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2006, 03:12:45 PM »

I dont see why all countries dont adopt some form of this.
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« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2006, 05:05:06 PM »

Well maybe they think they can control it and put all the dealers and gangsters out of business.
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2006, 11:47:53 PM »

That small of an amount?

Nah they are still going to deal with dealers, but a idiot who has a joint on him will not have to face jailtime now.
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Knightshade Dragon
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« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2006, 01:56:30 AM »

Quote from: "Semaj"
That small of an amount?

Nah they are still going to deal with dealers, but a idiot who has a joint on him will not have to face jailtime now.


The fact that this means that they can take their drug mules right up to the border with a legal amount of drugs and then just slip through makes me unhappy about this.
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« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2006, 02:42:49 AM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Quote from: "Semaj"
That small of an amount?

Nah they are still going to deal with dealers, but a idiot who has a joint on him will not have to face jailtime now.


The fact that this means that they can take their drug mules right up to the border with a legal amount of drugs and then just slip through makes me unhappy about this.


Why?  Those are fairly insignificant amounts.  Besides, illegal aliens aren't likely to have a 'personal stash', they are more likely to be importing larger quantities meant for US consumption.
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Mike Dunn
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« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2006, 07:55:28 PM »

Decriminalization:  Helping drug traffickers one doobie at a time!

I can see the legions of traffickers being used to take the doobie brothers, five pills, and a lil' baggie of horse from Chiapas to Sonora.

It should only take about 100,000 people to traffic a ton of Mary Jane across Mexico!  OH, TEH HORROREZ!!!

BTW: legalizing drugs sure has turned Denmark into Hell on Earth, hasn't it?
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gameoverman
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« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2006, 09:50:32 PM »

Well, since I believe all drugs(yes, ALL drugs) should be legal for adults to possess and use, obviously I see this as a positive move.

But even if I felt different about it, it wouldn't be a big deal to me.  Another country has a right to handle their legal issues how they see fit, they certainly don't have to structure their laws around what works better for us here in the US.  

Unless of course they were party to a treaty or other legal agreement which prohibits what they are doing.  I honestly don't know if that's the case here, is Mexico breaking a previous agreement by doing this?
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« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2006, 10:12:33 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
The fact that this means that they can take their drug mules right up to the border with a legal amount of drugs and then just slip through makes me unhappy about this.

Just because it's legal in Mexico doesn't mean they can just walk across the border with it (at checkpoints) into the States.  Amsterdam has all sorts of legalized stuff, but they can't bring it with them when they visit.  I don't see why this is any different.
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« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2006, 10:37:16 PM »

Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
The fact that this means that they can take their drug mules right up to the border with a legal amount of drugs and then just slip through makes me unhappy about this.

Just because it's legal in Mexico doesn't mean they can just walk across the border with it (at checkpoints) into the States.  Amsterdam has all sorts of legalized stuff, but they can't bring it with them when they visit.  I don't see why this is any different.


Try living in Arizona.  It isn't that hard to just walk over the border here.  I'm very anti-drug so it just bugs me.  On the flip side, hey...I hope that my fellow college students go to TJ and get themselves absolutely brain melted - it makes for less competition for those high-paying jobs. smile
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2006, 03:50:12 PM »

I'm all for it. The older I get, the more I think the government should just hand out drugs to whoever wants them...as much as they want. I'm pretty sure it would be cheaper than our current joke of a drug war, and it would weed out the stupid people faster.

Robert Wakefield: What are your policies towards treatment of addiction?

General Salazar: Treatment of addiction? Addicts treat themselves. They overdose and then there's one less to worry about.

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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2006, 04:00:48 PM »

Quote
and it would weed out the stupid people faster.

And the smart people and kids they kill while driving high, or raise the medical rates with all the idiot things that happen when people are high, or...

People show so much control with alcohol, I'm sure giving them more powerful drugs will only make this a better place to live  :roll:
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2006, 04:10:54 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
And the smart people and kids they kill while driving high, or raise the medical rates with all the idiot things that happen when people are high, or...

They do that all that now. It would be one thing if our current drug war was actually accomplishing anything. But it isn't. It's a enormous money sink that empowers the worst criminal elements and drives addicts to crime. It's also produced the largest prison population in the western world.

I'm tired of paying for it all. If allowing people to blast out their cerebral cortex with crack is cheaper than trying to bail the ocean with a teaspoon, then I'm all for it. Screw making a better world. Show me the bottom line.
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2006, 04:57:29 PM »

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They do that all that now. It would be one thing if our current drug war was actually accomplishing anything.

Yes, drugs cause lots of accidents and deaths now.  No doubts.  The problem with your argument, is that if you make drugs legal, how many more people will try them?  You'd probably see 100x, or a 1000x, as many people trying and using drugs then.  With that many extra people using drugs, that is significantly more deaths and injuries related to drugs.  

Also, by enabling drug legalization, you'll significantly spike drug traffic into this country, create a lot more dealers, and a lot more abusers.  Drugs are addictive, are they not?  People start using legal amounts, then they get more, and more, etc.  Once again, you start taxing the system, more arrests, more money to drug dealers, more abuse.
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2006, 05:00:53 PM »

Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
Quote from: "CrayolaSmoker"
Quote from: "Knightshade Dragon"
The fact that this means that they can take their drug mules right up to the border with a legal amount of drugs and then just slip through makes me unhappy about this.

Just because it's legal in Mexico doesn't mean they can just walk across the border with it (at checkpoints) into the States.  Amsterdam has all sorts of legalized stuff, but they can't bring it with them when they visit.  I don't see why this is any different.


Try living in Arizona.  It isn't that hard to just walk over the border here.  I'm very anti-drug so it just bugs me.  On the flip side, hey...I hope that my fellow college students go to TJ and get themselves absolutely brain melted - it makes for less competition for those high-paying jobs. smile

Being from Colombia, I am also very anti-drug, and that's why I am for this law. The police in the US go after individual users more often than the dealers, and as VR says, it has resulted in the US having the largest prison population in the world. It also means that the drug laws end up putting more people of color in jail because there are more police in our neighborhods, and the police don't seem to care about drugs in more wealthy neighborhoods anyways.
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2006, 05:06:16 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Drugs are addictive, are they not?  People start using legal amounts, then they get more, and more, etc.  Once again, you start taxing the system, more arrests, more money to drug dealers, more abuse.


First off, there are several legal substances which are highly addictive, some of which are more harmful than the ones that are illegal.  All drugs are not equal, and not all illegal drugs are even addictive.

I definitely agree some drugs should never be considered for legalization.  But some , specifically pot, should be legalized, taxed and regulated.  In my opinion, alcohol and cigarettes are more harmful than pot, and have far less medicinal applications.
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2006, 05:14:51 PM »

I suppose something could be said for keep all quanities illegal here.If the police couldn't threaten the users how would they find the dealers?
It would be conundrum.
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2006, 05:16:09 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Yes, drugs cause lots of accidents and deaths now.  No doubts.  The problem with your argument, is that if you make drugs legal, how many more people will try them?  You'd probably see 100x, or a 1000x, as many people trying and using drugs then.

Really? Would you start using drugs if they were legal? The only reason you don't binge out on crack is because The Man says its bad? Or do you have other reasons for abstaining?

Think about the people you know. How many do drugs? How many don't do drugs just because its illegal? How hard is it for your friends that DO use drugs to get them?
Quote
Also, by enabling drug legalization, you'll significantly spike drug traffic into this country, create a lot more dealers, and a lot more abusers.

Depends on how we implement the system. In my fantasy scenario, the government gives out all the drugs you can handle, so dealers go away altogether. Legalization could of course take many forms, but vitually all of them greatly reduce the profit motive when it comes to shipping drugs. If you believe in the free market, as most of us do, then reducing the profit motive reduces the number of people interested in the job.

It's not like we have any shortage of dealers today.

As for addicts, depending on how things are done, we may see a spike for a short time. But let's face it...the worst drugs absolutely destroy people when used in quantity. If we're giving Karie-Crack-Addict all that she wants for free, she'll be dead in a few months. One less problem to deal with. We don't even have to worry about keeping her alive in prison for 40 years. She takes care of the problem herself.  
Quote
Drugs are addictive, are they not?  People start using legal amounts, then they get more, and more, etc.  Once again, you start taxing the system, more arrests, more money to drug dealers, more abuse.

But none of this is stopped by the system we have now. The fact that they are illegal doesn't stop people from trying drugs. And once they start, they tend to continue. So we get more arrests, more money to drug dealers, (because supply is tighter) more corruption of the system, and more overloaded prisons. And it all costs the taxpayer ludicrious amounts of money.

Drugs are bad. But what we've set up in an attempt to fight them is even worse.
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2006, 07:41:35 PM »

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But none of this is stopped by the system we have now. The fact that they are illegal doesn't stop people from trying drugs. And once they start, they tend to continue. So we get more arrests, more money to drug dealers, (because supply is tighter) more corruption of the system, and more overloaded prisons. And it all costs the taxpayer ludicrious amounts of money.

Of course drugs being illegal prevents people from using them.  It isn't trivial for people to obtain drugs, and they cost a lot more then they should.   Cost and ease of purchase certainly prevent people from using them more then they would if they are free.

Quote
Really? Would you start using drugs if they were legal? The only reason you don't binge out on crack is because The Man says its bad? Or do you have other reasons for abstaining?

I don't know.  Maybe I wouldn't now as a parent, but in college, who knows?  I'm sure most of the people I know would at one point try them.  I've certainly tried a lot of different forms of alcohol, and that's legal, so why not something else?

The fact that smoking cigerettes will kill you, makes you reek (though I guess people save on soap), and costs a lot doesn't stop people from smoking.

Quote
If we're giving Karie-Crack-Addict all that she wants for free, she'll be dead in a few months. One less problem to deal with.

In some cases maybe she'd die quickly.  In most cases, she'd be hospitalized over and over, probably causing more money wasted then the prison system.  Of course, with illegal drugs, maybe the crack addict doesn't become addicted to start.  You'd see a lot more crack addicts with legal drugs.  

You'd save a lot on scholarships with free drugs though, as most college kids would be dead quickly, brain dead, or hospitalized in your system.

Quote
I definitely agree some drugs should never be considered for legalization. But some , specifically pot, should be legalized, taxed and regulated. In my opinion, alcohol and cigarettes are more harmful than pot, and have far less medicinal applications.

Possibly pot is the one example that should be legallized.  I think, in a lot of other cases, most drugs shouldn't be.

As far as cigerettes, I'm all for banning them.  I'm amazed people smoke them now knowing their health effects.
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2006, 08:09:54 PM »

Quote from: "Scott"
Of course drugs being illegal prevents people from using them.  It isn't trivial for people to obtain drugs, and they cost a lot more then they should.   Cost and ease of purchase certainly prevent people from using them more then they would if they are free.

It isn't trivial? Then why do we have so many addicts? If drugs are so difficult to get ahold of, why do constantly have to arrest so many people?

The sad truth is that drugs ARE easy to get. I agree with you that they're more expensive than they should be, but I don't see that as a good thing. Only the bad guys benefit from high drug prices. Those high prices drive addicts to crime in order to support their habit, and put money in the pockets of all the wrong people.
Quote
I don't know.  Maybe I wouldn't now as a parent, but in college, who knows?  I'm sure most of the people I know would at one point try them.  I've certainly tried a lot of different forms of alcohol, and that's legal, so why not something else?

If you're so terminally stupid that you'll take up herion just because it's legal, then there's really no helping you. My tax dollars shouldn't go towards keeping you from killing yourself if that's really what you want to do. I believe in freedom, even the freedom to do really stupid crap.
Quote
In some cases maybe she'd die quickly.  In most cases, she'd be hospitalized over and over, probably causing more money wasted then the prison system.

No biggie. Simply allow insurance companies to void the policies of anyone found with illegal drugs in their system, and allow hospitals to cease treatment on anyone found with said drugs in their system. Problem solved.
Quote
Of course, with illegal drugs, maybe the crack addict doesn't become addicted to start.  You'd see a lot more crack addicts with legal drugs.

Because god knows people never do things that are illegal, right? :wink:
Quote
You'd save a lot on scholarships with free drugs though, as most college kids would be dead quickly, brain dead, or hospitalized in your system.

If a kid is stupid enough to want to waste his life on drugs, he doesn't belong in college in the first place. Universities are supposed to be institutes of higher learning, catering to the brightest of our youth. If the smartest of us can't stay off the dope without Big Brother leaning over our shoulder, what hope do we have, anyway?
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2006, 08:34:57 PM »

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It isn't trivial? Then why do we have so many addicts? If drugs are so difficult to get ahold of, why do constantly have to arrest so many people?

I don't think its trivial.  I couldn't just run and buy some crack.  

Quote
If you're so terminally stupid that you'll take up herion just because it's legal, then there's really no helping you.

I don't know, I remember college, and a lot of people try different things.  People may not know its so harmful either.   Most people assume legal things are relatively safe.  You could spend tons of money on education though.

Quote
No biggie. Simply allow insurance companies to void the policies of anyone found with illegal drugs in their system, and allow hospitals to cease treatment on anyone found with said drugs in their system. Problem solved.

How many lawsuits would this create?  How would you insure testing was done fairly?  Talk about expenses!

I don't have such a high opinion of the average person I guess, and think some obviously known harmful things should be kept away from them.  In a perfect society of intelligent people, then we would need a lot fewer laws period, not just making drugs illegal.
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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2006, 01:15:09 AM »

1. Legalize all drugs
2. Regulate them like any other product, and restrict where they can legally be purchased and used.
3. Use the proceeds to fund treatment programs for addicts.

It will remove the multi-billion dollar revenue stream currently going to criminals.

We will only win the "War on Drugs" by not even fighting it.  Your enemy cannot fight you without money.
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« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2006, 03:42:34 PM »

Quote from: "Little Raven"
No biggie. Simply allow insurance companies to void the policies of anyone found with illegal drugs in their system, and allow hospitals to cease treatment on anyone found with said drugs in their system. Problem solved.


You make it sound oh so simple, especially from the doctor's viewpoint. Maybe doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel are that callous where you are, but I know from what my wife tells me (nurse practitioner) that she takes it pretty hard when she can't help someone adequately because of HMO bullshit.

You are basically saying that we should rewrite the Hippocratic Oath and let doctors only practice on patients who "deserve" saving. That's bad, and I don't want those kinds of doctors working on me.
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« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2006, 06:24:43 PM »

Quote from: "raydude"
Quote from: "Little Raven"
No biggie. Simply allow insurance companies to void the policies of anyone found with illegal drugs in their system, and allow hospitals to cease treatment on anyone found with said drugs in their system. Problem solved.


You make it sound oh so simple, especially from the doctor's viewpoint. Maybe doctors, nurses, and other medical personnel are that callous where you are, but I know from what my wife tells me (nurse practitioner) that she takes it pretty hard when she can't help someone adequately because of HMO bullshit.

You are basically saying that we should rewrite the Hippocratic Oath and let doctors only practice on patients who "deserve" saving. That's bad, and I don't want those kinds of doctors working on me.

Here, here!

"This man's having a heart attack!  Oh, wait, it's cocaine-induced.  Nevermind.  Let him rot."

Do I like seeing folks throw their lives away on (legal or illegal) drugs?  Hell no.  But turning people away who need medical help because of bad choices they've made is a horrible, HORRIBLE idea.

"You're telling me this happened while your son was jumping on a trampoline and swinging a plastic sword?  Well that's just dumb.  I'm not gonna treat him."

Not to mention that an insurance company dropping complete coverage due to drug use would be ludicrous.

"Yes.  You've been diagnosed with with skin cancer.  However, due to some unprescribed oxycodone you took in college 20 years ago, that in no way-shape-or-form contributed to said cancer, I'm afraid we can't cover you.  Good luck with the horribly expensive chemo!"

The concept is ludicrous.  It completely abandons the hippocratic oath, and the relatively altruistic legacy of the medical profession.  It's certainly not the medical profession I've worked so hard the past four years to join, and I would want no part of it.
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