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Author Topic: Pointless vandalism and the irritating inconvenience imposed upon the victim...  (Read 3579 times)
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coopasonic
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« Reply #40 on: July 28, 2008, 10:16:23 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on July 28, 2008, 10:05:13 PM

Quote from: Moliere on July 28, 2008, 09:52:08 PM

I understand that as law abiding citizens we are more concerned about private property than during our mispent youths. Is everyone here saying they didn't do some of this stuff while growing up? I'm not proud of it, but I did my share of egg throwing and random destruction. One time the guy caught me and dragged me over to his car to clean the egg off.  icon_redface

I never intentionally broke a window, stole from a parked car, ran shopping carts into parked cars, etc. 

We may have broken a window on an abandoned building or two, hung out on the roof of the library, and shoplifted a few petty items, but nothing that I would compare to this sort of thing. For the most part I had better things to do... and that was back when I only had an Atari. If I'd had a 360 I might never have left my room...
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« Reply #41 on: July 28, 2008, 10:29:48 PM »

Quote from: Moliere on July 28, 2008, 09:52:08 PM

I understand that as law abiding citizens we are more concerned about private property than during our mispent youths. Is everyone here saying they didn't do some of this stuff while growing up?

No. I grew up in the time where my parents would've beaten the crap out of me (and it would NOT have been child abuse) for doing so.
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« Reply #42 on: July 28, 2008, 11:04:23 PM »

Quote from: Destructor on July 28, 2008, 10:29:48 PM

Quote from: Moliere on July 28, 2008, 09:52:08 PM

I understand that as law abiding citizens we are more concerned about private property than during our mispent youths. Is everyone here saying they didn't do some of this stuff while growing up?

No. I grew up in the time where my parents would've beaten the crap out of me (and it would NOT have been child abuse) for doing so.

+1.  Any damage that I may have caused at that age was to my own damn self for experimenting with recreational drugs.  Not by damaging other people's shit.  My parents taught me better than that.
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« Reply #43 on: July 28, 2008, 11:13:50 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on July 28, 2008, 11:04:23 PM

Quote from: Destructor on July 28, 2008, 10:29:48 PM

Quote from: Moliere on July 28, 2008, 09:52:08 PM

I understand that as law abiding citizens we are more concerned about private property than during our mispent youths. Is everyone here saying they didn't do some of this stuff while growing up?

No. I grew up in the time where my parents would've beaten the crap out of me (and it would NOT have been child abuse) for doing so.

+1.  Any damage that I may have caused at that age was to my own damn self for experimenting with recreational drugs.  Not by damaging other people's shit.  My parents taught me better than that.


I'm not even sure where the desire or even the idea comes from.  Is it really all that empowering or entertaining to damage some stranger's possessions?  What even causes one to want to damage some random stranger's property in an anonymous manner?  You don't even get to see the reaction to your "handiwork" when it is done in such an anonymous, cowardly way.  It is merely vandalism for the sake of committing vandalism.  Ruining a working person's Monday morning is entertainment?  Or do teens feel an overwhelming desire to force adults to experience the same level of frustration and hardship inherent in attending high school so that we may be reminded of just how difficult the life of a teenager can be?   Roll Eyes
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« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2008, 11:26:07 PM »

They're stimulating the economy, namely repair shops.
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« Reply #45 on: July 28, 2008, 11:33:03 PM »

I have to say - it is pretty stupid to randomly damage people's stuff.  I'm the type that'll put your face into the pavement and hold it there with my foot while we wait for the cops.  You never know when somebody won't be as nice as me and will just put a bullet in your face while he waits for the medical examiner.  It's a stupid risk and one I never took when I was a kid.  As some of you have already said - I was raised better.
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« Reply #46 on: July 28, 2008, 11:53:56 PM »

So based on many of the responses on here, even though your parents raised you better, you would do physical harm and commit violence against these people who broke your stuff?

hmmm...

Maybe your parents didn't do such a good job after all.

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« Reply #47 on: July 28, 2008, 11:55:48 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on July 28, 2008, 07:49:42 PM

I also cannot even begin to understand people who find no problem with opening their car door until it hits the car next to them.  Just because your poor ass can't afford more than the piece of shit you currently push to work every day doesn't give you the right to damage anyone else's property.  I have a Mazda 3.  It is a fairly small car.  I make it a point to park in the dead-center of a parking space in order to make sure that cars on either side have more than enough room.  And yet almost every time I return to my car I find that some asshat has parked so close that they're in my fucking parking spot and you can't even open the door.  WTF?  There is almost always a mark where they hit my door.  Mother.  Fucker.

What pisses me off more than that are the elitist pricks who think their fancy-ass car/truck/hummer/compensatory-phallus is so damned special that they have to park it across two fucking parking spaces to try to make sure no one gets close to it. Good grief. Now, when they do that way out in the parking lot, eh, whatever, no biggie, they want to park that far out to ensure their car's condition, that's their call and I got no problem with it.

But when they do that shit in a crowded parking lot, in the busy part of the day/week/holidays, right up in the front of the parking lot? That's ass right there. This lady with her Hummer did that in the front row of the parking lot at work during the freaking winter once when it was snowy (our parking lot was cleared though, so you could easily see the lines since the day before) and fucking COLD. At the time I drove a middle-quality reasonably small Altima, and she was just far enough over on her driver side space that I could fit in, and she could just climb over the damn console in her vehicle from the passenger side to the driver side. I had room enough to still open my driver door next to her and get out without touching her vehicle (and I'm not necessarily a skinny guy). It's bad enough when a stranger does that to people they have nothing to do with. It's unacceptable to do that shit to coworkers. I have a zero tolerance policy for that crap.
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« Reply #48 on: July 29, 2008, 03:13:37 AM »

Quote from: chaosraven on July 28, 2008, 11:53:56 PM

So based on many of the responses on here, even though your parents raised you better, you would do physical harm and commit violence against these people who broke your stuff?

hmmm...

Maybe your parents didn't do such a good job after all.


I imagine most people probably wouldn't commit violence despite what they say on the boards, but many of us would use violence to protect our property if we caught destruction in process.  And even though you might think that is a moral failing, I'm quite okay with that.  The police are not going to arrive in time to stop a property crime and I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't demand us to be victims.  Of course, if one is going to use violence to stop a crime, they had better be prepared in case the criminal also wants to use violence.  Non-violence is great, but it doesn't always work in the real world.
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« Reply #49 on: July 29, 2008, 03:25:24 AM »

Quote from: Arnir on July 29, 2008, 03:13:37 AM

Quote from: chaosraven on July 28, 2008, 11:53:56 PM

So based on many of the responses on here, even though your parents raised you better, you would do physical harm and commit violence against these people who broke your stuff?

hmmm...

Maybe your parents didn't do such a good job after all.


I imagine most people probably wouldn't commit violence despite what they say on the boards, but many of us would use violence to protect our property if we caught destruction in process.  And even though you might think that is a moral failing, I'm quite okay with that.  The police are not going to arrive in time to stop a property crime and I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't demand us to be victims.  Of course, if one is going to use violence to stop a crime, they had better be prepared in case the criminal also wants to use violence.  Non-violence is great, but it doesn't always work in the real world.

Bingo.  I'm using joint locks, throws, and pain compliance to put the subject into the pavement where they will patiently wait while the cops come to sweep things up.   Violence is reserved for when there is a real threat.
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« Reply #50 on: July 29, 2008, 03:27:36 AM »

Quote from: Arnir on July 29, 2008, 03:13:37 AM

And even though you might think that is a moral failing, I'm quite okay with that.  The police are not going to arrive in time to stop a property crime and I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't demand us to be victims.  Of course, if one is going to use violence to stop a crime, they had better be prepared in case the criminal also wants to use violence.  Non-violence is great, but it doesn't always work in the real world.

Defense of Property

Many jurisdictions allow the use of some amount of threat or force by a person who is seeking to protect his own property from theft or damage. In most jurisdictions, there is no privilege to use force that may cause death or serious injury against trespassers unless the trespass itself threatens death or serious injury. Please note that there are some jurisdictions with extraordinarily broad laws, permitting the use of significant and even deadly force to prevent the theft of property. (Leaving aside the moral issues of using physical force to defend property, be sure that you know your local laws before applying force in such a situation.)

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« Reply #51 on: July 29, 2008, 03:31:06 AM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on July 29, 2008, 03:25:24 AM

Bingo.  I'm using joint locks, throws, and pain compliance to put the subject into the pavement where they will patiently wait while the cops come to sweep things up.   Violence is reserved for when there is a real threat.

Applying various forms of restraint is indeed quite a bit different from Kicking Someone's Ass.

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« Reply #52 on: July 29, 2008, 03:57:02 AM »

I'm just glad to live in a Castle Law State.

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A Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. In a legal context, therefore, use of deadly force which actually results in death may be defended as justifiable homicide under the Castle Doctrine.
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« Reply #53 on: July 29, 2008, 03:58:18 AM »

Quote from: chaosraven on July 29, 2008, 03:27:36 AM

Quote from: Arnir on July 29, 2008, 03:13:37 AM

And even though you might think that is a moral failing, I'm quite okay with that.  The police are not going to arrive in time to stop a property crime and I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't demand us to be victims.  Of course, if one is going to use violence to stop a crime, they had better be prepared in case the criminal also wants to use violence.  Non-violence is great, but it doesn't always work in the real world.

Defense of Property

Many jurisdictions allow the use of some amount of threat or force by a person who is seeking to protect his own property from theft or damage. In most jurisdictions, there is no privilege to use force that may cause death or serious injury against trespassers unless the trespass itself threatens death or serious injury. Please note that there are some jurisdictions with extraordinarily broad laws, permitting the use of significant and even deadly force to prevent the theft of property. (Leaving aside the moral issues of using physical force to defend property, be sure that you know your local laws before applying force in such a situation.)



I think most people would be surprised at how little force one can actually use to detain someone.  But as you say, rules vary.
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« Reply #54 on: July 29, 2008, 04:09:20 AM »

you could hire dbt to protect your car.  he could brings his goats and do your lawn too.
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« Reply #55 on: July 29, 2008, 01:44:19 PM »

For me, this kind of thing isn't any different than griefers in online games. Some people like making other people miserable. I've never understood the mindset, but I guess if we were all the same it'd be one hell of a boring place. Also, if we were all the same as PeteRock, we'd all be fabulous and if everyone is fabulous, noone is. Or something.
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« Reply #56 on: July 29, 2008, 01:58:06 PM »

Maybe learn from Singapore and implement caning punishment for vandalism.smile
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« Reply #57 on: July 29, 2008, 02:13:35 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on July 28, 2008, 11:13:50 PM

I'm not even sure where the desire or even the idea comes from.  Is it really all that empowering or entertaining to damage some stranger's possessions?  What even causes one to want to damage some random stranger's property in an anonymous manner?

GTA made me do it.

Quote from: chaosraven on July 28, 2008, 11:53:56 PM

So based on many of the responses on here, even though your parents raised you better, you would do physical harm and commit violence against these people who broke your stuff?
hmmm...
Maybe your parents didn't do such a good job after all.

I've got no problems using sufficient force to detain someone who was committing a crime.
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« Reply #58 on: July 29, 2008, 02:15:48 PM »

Quote from: chaosraven on July 29, 2008, 03:31:06 AM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on July 29, 2008, 03:25:24 AM

Bingo.  I'm using joint locks, throws, and pain compliance to put the subject into the pavement where they will patiently wait while the cops come to sweep things up.   Violence is reserved for when there is a real threat.
Applying various forms of restraint is indeed quite a bit different from Kicking Someone's Law-breaking perpetrator Ass.

FTFY.
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« Reply #59 on: July 29, 2008, 02:56:07 PM »

anyone else having a vision of Pete dressed up like Batman, perched on the roof of his house, waiting for the criminals?
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« Reply #60 on: July 29, 2008, 02:59:50 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 29, 2008, 02:56:07 PM

anyone else having a vision of Pete dressed up like Batman, perched on the roof of his house, waiting for the criminals?

A bedazzled Batman.  Yes.
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« Reply #61 on: July 29, 2008, 03:01:49 PM »

Quote from: rickfc on July 29, 2008, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 29, 2008, 02:56:07 PM

anyone else having a vision of Pete dressed up like Batman, perched on the roof of his house, waiting for the criminals?

A bedazzled Batman.  Yes.

'who are you?'

'I'm... FABULOUS!'
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« Reply #62 on: July 29, 2008, 03:55:12 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on July 29, 2008, 03:01:49 PM

Quote from: rickfc on July 29, 2008, 02:59:50 PM

Quote from: CeeKay on July 29, 2008, 02:56:07 PM

anyone else having a vision of Pete dressed up like Batman, perched on the roof of his house, waiting for the criminals?

A bedazzled Batman.  Yes.

'who are you?'

'I'm... FABULOUS!'

Okay, that was pretty damn funny.

As an update, last night while sweeping up broken glass in front of my house I spoke with my next door neighbor about the extents of any damage to his vehicles, and we were able to wager a guess as to what happened the night before.  His windshield is made of shatter-proof glass because he does a great deal of off-road driving in his Jeep, and we found three distinct "bullet holes" in the glass.  I've placed "bullet holes" in quotation marks because they weren't necessarily made by bullets (there were no casings found anywhere in the neighborhood), but but some sort of high-powered pellet gun or something similar.  It appears that someone went joy-riding down our street and fired at random cars along the north side of the street, shooting out side windows and windshields.  There was no damage to cars parked along the south side of the street because it looks like they didn't turn around for a 2nd pass heading in the opposite direction.

I haven't heard of anyone being injured, or of any damage to any of the homes (or occupants inside), but that is certainly a concern as there are many families with children along our street.  My wife's car was repaired at her office and we parked our cars in the covered parking spaces in the community rather than along the street in front of our house. 

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on July 29, 2008, 03:25:24 AM

Quote from: Arnir on July 29, 2008, 03:13:37 AM

Quote from: chaosraven on July 28, 2008, 11:53:56 PM

So based on many of the responses on here, even though your parents raised you better, you would do physical harm and commit violence against these people who broke your stuff?

hmmm...

Maybe your parents didn't do such a good job after all.


I imagine most people probably wouldn't commit violence despite what they say on the boards, but many of us would use violence to protect our property if we caught destruction in process.  And even though you might think that is a moral failing, I'm quite okay with that.  The police are not going to arrive in time to stop a property crime and I'm lucky enough to live in a state that doesn't demand us to be victims.  Of course, if one is going to use violence to stop a crime, they had better be prepared in case the criminal also wants to use violence.  Non-violence is great, but it doesn't always work in the real world.

Bingo.  I'm using joint locks, throws, and pain compliance to put the subject into the pavement where they will patiently wait while the cops come to sweep things up.   Violence is reserved for when there is a real threat.

Exactly.  I am not suggesting that I would necessarily "kick the person's ass" for vandalizing my property, but that I would do my damnedest to make sure the fucker was restrained while my wife called the police.  Even if I have to continue to chase them in my underwear while dialing the local authorities on my cell phone.  If you vandalize my property, or worse, if you cause harm or put my wife or dogs at risk, I am going to do my best to make sure you are held accountable without any risk of legal retribution.   
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« Reply #63 on: July 29, 2008, 04:00:09 PM »

Quote from: chaosraven on July 29, 2008, 03:31:06 AM

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on July 29, 2008, 03:25:24 AM

Bingo.  I'm using joint locks, throws, and pain compliance to put the subject into the pavement where they will patiently wait while the cops come to sweep things up.   Violence is reserved for when there is a real threat.

Applying various forms of restraint is indeed quite a bit different from Kicking Someone's Ass.



Heh, it's all about perspective.  For the guy on the ground, it still feels like an ass whippin.  icon_twisted
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« Reply #64 on: July 29, 2008, 04:02:04 PM »

Quote
Even if I have to continue to chase them in my underwear underwear and cape while dialing the local authorities on my cell phone. 

Fixed that for ya.   Fabulous
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« Reply #65 on: July 29, 2008, 04:05:54 PM »

Quote from: PeteRock on July 28, 2008, 04:17:10 PM

What the hell is wrong with people that they consider this to be acceptable behavior, never weighing the impact their idiocy might have on normal, middle-class people who have to go to work on Monday morning, some not necessarily having the money to repair the damage they've caused?

Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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« Reply #66 on: July 29, 2008, 04:06:06 PM »

Quote from: Knightshade Dragon on July 29, 2008, 04:02:04 PM

Quote
Even if I have to continue to chase them in my underwear sequins thong and satin cape while dialing the local authorities on my cell phone. 

Fixed that for ya.   Fabulous

Refixed.
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« Reply #67 on: July 29, 2008, 04:06:36 PM »

Quote from: Crux on July 29, 2008, 04:05:54 PM

Quote from: PeteRock on July 28, 2008, 04:17:10 PM

What the hell is wrong with people that they consider this to be acceptable behavior, never weighing the impact their idiocy might have on normal, middle-class people who have to go to work on Monday morning, some not necessarily having the money to repair the damage they've caused?

Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

FIRE IT UP! FIRE IT UP!
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