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Author Topic: Overweight man sues Air France over seat row  (Read 1906 times)
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corruptrelic
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« on: December 20, 2006, 09:32:22 PM »

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"Let's be objective. This man is fat," lawyer Fernand Gamault told the court in Bobigny, according to Le Parisien newspaper. "He barely fits on the courtroom chair. How could he sit in an airplane?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061220/india_nm/india280941_1
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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2006, 03:15:50 AM »

It doesn't help that these days you can barely fit a normal sized person in a coach airline seat, let alone somebody who is overweight, broad shouldered or extra tall. 

Although at over 350lbs, I think you might to assume that you need to get a business/first class seat or pay for two.  It is a policy I have seen on other airlines/tickets so I can't see the point of suing over it. 
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Blackadar
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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM »

This thread won't end well...

I was flying with my wife once when an overweight man sat went to sit next to her and started to pull the armrest up.  I reached over and slammed the armrest down and said "it stays down".  He just glared at me and then tried to fit his bulk into his seat.  I'm sure he was uncomfortable the entire trip.

In some small way, I felt sorry for the guy.  But I know what he was trying to do...he was trying to use part of my wife's seat (she's 130 lbs) because he was too big to fit in his own seat.  Sorry, bub...I'm not going to let you squish my wife because you're the size of a small rhino.

And before anyone claims "discrimination" about the guy who had to buy two seats...there's a difference between discrimination and accommodation.  Learn it.
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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2006, 01:48:38 PM »

Quote from: EngineNo9 on December 21, 2006, 03:15:50 AM

It doesn't help that these days you can barely fit a normal sized person in a coach airline seat, let alone somebody who is overweight, broad shouldered or extra tall. 

I'm 6' and 190. I have no problem fitting in a coach seat. 

If he wins this suit it will set a bad precedent.  Being fat, except in extremely rare cases, is not a disease nor should those who are grossly obese be given a free pass.

I hope the airline wins the case.

Quote
I was flying with my wife once when an overweight man sat went to sit next to her and started to pull the armrest up.  I reached over and slammed the armrest down and said "it stays down".  He just glared at me and then tried to fit his bulk into his seat. 

I dont' know what I would have done in this situation. I probably woudl protest, but I don't know if I would be so blunt.
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dedewhale
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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2006, 03:19:22 PM »

I am 6 feet and weigh 240. I am not fat I have broad shoulders and a 36 inch waist....I can not fit in certain airline seats comfortably...and strategically select seats so I dont have to inconvienence anyone else. But certain airlines have made seats smaller and leg room less in recent years to pack more cattle in....at what point do you say this rediculous? ...especially as a whole since we are getting taller and fatter as a society as a whole.

While I dont think it is right for someone morbidly obese to sue the airline...I still think they are a service industry and need to adjust to the ways of their clients. I guess since it costs them money they feel they can neglect part of our society...but I say that is bullshit! Every business has to change to meet the needs of their customers.
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dedewhale
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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2006, 03:22:30 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 21, 2006, 01:48:38 PM


I'm 6' and 190. I have no problem fitting in a coach seat. 

If he wins this suit it will set a bad precedent.  Being fat, except in extremely rare cases, is not a disease nor should those who are grossly obese be given a free pass.


Hmm I would say being fat in many cases is a disease of a dis-order a cognitive one, just as much as drug addicts and those with compulsive disorders are classified as such. So I would say I would really disgree with you or say your  thinking is really setting up a huge double standard based on someones looks.
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ATB
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2006, 07:28:57 PM »

Quote from: dedewhale on December 21, 2006, 03:22:30 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 21, 2006, 01:48:38 PM


I'm 6' and 190. I have no problem fitting in a coach seat. 

If he wins this suit it will set a bad precedent.  Being fat, except in extremely rare cases, is not a disease nor should those who are grossly obese be given a free pass.


Hmm I would say being fat in many cases is a disease of a dis-order a cognitive one, just as much as drug addicts and those with compulsive disorders are classified as such. So I would say I would really disgree with you or say your  thinking is really setting up a huge double standard based on someones looks.

Very good point that I completely ignored in my post. If it is actually food addiction, then it can be a disease possibly.  However, not all addictions should be classified as diseases.
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2006, 07:38:32 PM »

Quote from: ATB on December 21, 2006, 07:28:57 PM

Quote from: dedewhale on December 21, 2006, 03:22:30 PM

Quote from: ATB on December 21, 2006, 01:48:38 PM


I'm 6' and 190. I have no problem fitting in a coach seat. 

If he wins this suit it will set a bad precedent.  Being fat, except in extremely rare cases, is not a disease nor should those who are grossly obese be given a free pass.


Hmm I would say being fat in many cases is a disease of a dis-order a cognitive one, just as much as drug addicts and those with compulsive disorders are classified as such. So I would say I would really disgree with you or say your  thinking is really setting up a huge double standard based on someones looks.

Very good point that I completely ignored in my post. If it is actually food addiction, then it can be a disease possibly.  However, not all addictions should be classified as diseases.

They don't let visibly drunk or high people on planes either.

gellar
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 07:49:46 PM »

One difference between France and America -- notice how little he is asking for.

Here, he would by necessity be asking for vastly more money for anguish from humilitation.  It may be that the French legal system better controls such claims.  Or possibly the French start at a much higher baseline of personal humiliation.
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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2006, 07:59:09 PM »

Quote from: gellar on December 21, 2006, 07:38:32 PM

They don't let visibly drunk or high people on planes either.

gellar

And that's a damn shame to be perfectly honest. At least it would distract fro the annoying screaming babies right behind me.

Oh and Fed, that was something Frogs Honey pointed out to me last night as well with much the same conclusion you reached. I was surprised by that amount because in America it would have started in the seven figures at least.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

I was flying with my wife once when an overweight man sat went to sit next to her and started to pull the armrest up.  I reached over and slammed the armrest down and said "it stays down".  He just glared at me and then tried to fit his bulk into his seat.  I'm sure he was uncomfortable the entire trip.

In some small way, I felt sorry for the guy.  But I know what he was trying to do...he was trying to use part of my wife's seat (she's 130 lbs) because he was too big to fit in his own seat.  Sorry, bub...I'm not going to let you squish my wife because you're the size of a small rhino.
You could have traded seats with your wife.

I don't think that characterizing the man's weight as a disease or a disorder necessarily gives the fat man a pass.  I think that airlines should make reasonable accomodations for people with special needs, but I also think it's fair to expect those people to pay their share.

Also, if you read the quote by the OP to yourself in a French accent, it's impossible to not giggle.
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2006, 08:54:24 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on December 21, 2006, 07:59:09 PM

Quote from: gellar on December 21, 2006, 07:38:32 PM

They don't let visibly drunk or high people on planes either.

gellar

And that's a damn shame to be perfectly honest. At least it would distract fro the annoying screaming babies right behind me.

There's nothing stopping you from getting tanked ON the plane though.

Not that I've ever done that.  No sir.  I've never spilled my Baileys coffee in the bidnez class cabin from LHR to SFO due to drunken clumsiness.  I've just heard that sort of thing can happen.

gellar
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brettmcd
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2006, 09:01:58 PM »

I dont have a problem with the airline asking him to buy another ticket as they did state that as part of their policies.   But I do think the airline is wrong where it decided it was somehow ok to measure someones waist in public to determine if they needed to buy another seat or not.   On that grounds I do see some merit in damages for humiliation, that isnt something they should do in public.
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Calvin
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 09:56:06 PM by Calvin » Logged
brettmcd
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« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2006, 10:02:39 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.

Ive actually been registered here for almost a year and a half, and have been lurking that whole time.   Not sure what was wrong with what I posted though.

(Nice way to treat newly posting members though)
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Calvin
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« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2006, 10:03:43 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.

Ive actually been registered here for almost a year and a half, and have been lurking that whole time.   Not sure what was wrong with what I posted though.

(Nice way to treat newly posting members though)

Do you remember get temp banned for going nuts in the weight threads on OO? Kthnxbye
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brettmcd
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« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2006, 10:06:46 PM »

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 10:03:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.

Ive actually been registered here for almost a year and a half, and have been lurking that whole time.   Not sure what was wrong with what I posted though.

(Nice way to treat newly posting members though)

Do you remember get temp banned for going nuts in the weight threads on OO? Kthnxbye

Ill try one more time, what was specifically wrong with what I posted above?
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Mr. Fed
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 10:08:06 PM »

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:06:46 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 10:03:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.

Ive actually been registered here for almost a year and a half, and have been lurking that whole time.   Not sure what was wrong with what I posted though.

(Nice way to treat newly posting members though)

Do you remember get temp banned for going nuts in the weight threads on OO? Kthnxbye

Ill try one more time, what was specifically wrong with what I posted above?

It's making Calvin look like an ass.  That's rude, just like how the AirFrance people were rude to the hefty gentlemen.

Edit:  Though really, how can you complain about people being rude to you if you willingly live in or went to France?  It's like going to Alaska and bitching about the cold.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 10:10:00 PM by Mr. Fed » Logged

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whiteboyskim
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 10:09:12 PM »

Calvin, cool it. If things get out of hand then it will be handled. Brett, welcome to the boards and happy(er) posting.

I wonder if Calvin is secretly French and this is just his way of saying "hi"... icon_twisted
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Blackadar
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« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2006, 10:14:08 PM by Blackadar » Logged

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Calvin
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« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2006, 10:13:17 PM »

Quote from: whiteboyskim on December 21, 2006, 10:09:12 PM

Calvin, cool it. If things get out of hand then it will be handled. Brett, welcome to the boards and happy(er) posting.

I wonder if Calvin is secretly French and this is just his way of saying "hi"... icon_twisted

All of the above NOOBSTICK. But seriously, gotcha.

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Calvin
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« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2006, 10:14:20 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Fed on December 21, 2006, 10:08:06 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:06:46 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 10:03:43 PM

Quote from: brettmcd on December 21, 2006, 10:02:39 PM

Quote from: Calvin on December 21, 2006, 09:54:04 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 01:25:34 PM

This thread won't end well...

Oh this thread will end fine here. We don't allow BrettMCD remember?  icon_smile

Oh screw me running with a stick, he registered here just for this. Dear god in heaven help us. And in the time it took me to write the first line of this post.

Ive actually been registered here for almost a year and a half, and have been lurking that whole time.   Not sure what was wrong with what I posted though.

(Nice way to treat newly posting members though)

Do you remember get temp banned for going nuts in the weight threads on OO? Kthnxbye

Ill try one more time, what was specifically wrong with what I posted above?

It's making Calvin look like an ass.  That's rude, just like how the AirFrance people were rude to the hefty gentlemen.

Edit:  Though really, how can you complain about people being rude to you if you willingly live in or went to France?  It's like going to Alaska and bitching about the cold.
Hmm...your humor is crafty, so very very subtle. I think. Maybe.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2006, 10:16:55 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

No its not, I posted one relevent, reasonable comment about the thread, I didnt expect to be piled upon like this for one post.
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« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2006, 10:19:43 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

If you need to ship something which is too big for the box you have... you need to get a bigger box.  And it will definitely cost more to ship.

It isnt' discrimination to say you can't fit 9 lbs of stuff in a 5 lb bag.  If someone is too big to fit in one seat... they just have to buy two, or simply fly at a class with larger seats.  Yeah, we can all feel bad for the guy, but he was the one who purchased the ticket.  If he thought he would be uncomfortable, he should have planned for it.

IMO, you did the right thing.
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« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2006, 10:23:35 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

Well there is a real nice attitude.

Welcome Brett... and I agree, measuring the man in front of everyone is humiliating.  Take them to a private room if you need to measure them.
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brettmcd
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« Reply #25 on: December 21, 2006, 10:24:56 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on December 21, 2006, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

Well there is a real nice attitude.

Welcome Brett... and I agree, measuring the man in front of everyone is humiliating.  Take them to a private room if you need to measure them.

Exactly, and that humiliation is the only thing I think he should win any damages for.   Anything else just doesnt make sense in this specific case.
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Blackadar
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« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2006, 10:54:24 PM »

Quote from: Arkon on December 21, 2006, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

Well there is a real nice attitude.


So, you think fatass is supposed to get half my (or my wife's) seat?  My attitude is that I don't expect, nor will I tolerate, someone making me uncomfortable because they're the one who's too ignorant or greedy to buy two seats (or fly business class) in the first place. 
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2006, 11:07:31 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:54:24 PM

Quote from: Arkon on December 21, 2006, 10:23:35 PM

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

Well there is a real nice attitude.


So, you think fatass is supposed to get half my (or my wife's) seat?  My attitude is that I don't expect, nor will I tolerate, someone making me uncomfortable because they're the one who's too ignorant or greedy to buy two seats (or fly business class) in the first place. 

Oh I am sorry, I should have been more clear... my comment was about your piss poor attitude about Brett posting. 

And maybe I think skinny ass people should have to pay half and only get half a seat, why should you get so much extra room.
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« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2006, 12:00:24 AM »

Quote from: Arkon on December 21, 2006, 11:07:31 PM

And maybe I think skinny ass people should have to pay half and only get half a seat, why should you get so much extra room.

I'd take that deal.  1/2 price for my wife, full price for me, double for Mr. Fatass.
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« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2006, 01:16:25 AM »

Quote from: Arkon on December 21, 2006, 10:23:35 PM

Take them to a private room if you need to measure them.

Same thing could be said about posters with bad reps.  Don't publically scorn him for something he may do.
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« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2006, 01:23:17 PM »

In Blackadar situation, I still think  the airline is at fault....society is getting larger, some people are larger then others...so the airline did not either express there policy clearly about size of seats or did not change their environment to accomidate the changing needs of society. So while I dont know if the tone of your reaction to his move on the plane is correct I feel it was somewhat innevitable.

You place two adult male Roosters in a small square, the cocks are going to fight. Now we dont blame the animals but the people that forced them into the situation. The airlines are creating a hostle enviroment and not acceptable any accountablility on remedying a situation uniformly.
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« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2006, 01:39:16 PM »

Quote from: dedewhale on December 22, 2006, 01:23:17 PM

In Blackadar situation, I still think  the airline is at fault....society is getting larger, some people are larger then others...so the airline did not either express there policy clearly about size of seats or did not change their environment to accomidate the changing needs of society.

Or they're just trying to maximize their profits by not reducing the number of overall seats. 

Let's put it this way - if they had to have seats big enough to accommodate this guy, they'd reduce the overall number of seats in the airplane by 1/3rd.  They'd go from a 3x3 configuration to a 2x2.  That's a helluva lot of revenue.  So if somehow they were required to make the seats bigger on this plane, I'd end up footing the bill by paying 50% more (check the math, it works) for my airline seat.  Sorry, I don't feel like paying because someone couldn't eat a carrot now and then. 

(and before anyone goes off on that last statement, I know there are genetic conditions that cause people to be overweight.  I feel for such people.  However, I don't feel it's my duty to subsidize them)

Quote from: dedewhale on December 22, 2006, 01:23:17 PM

So while I dont know if the tone of your reaction to his move on the plane is correct I feel it was somewhat innevitable.

Let me say this - this guy knew what he was doing.  That's why he went to put the armrest up even before he sat down and that's why he didn't wait for any kind of answer after asking his "question" before trying to pull it up.  So I have no sympathy because he knew that he was going to use part of the seat that another passenger paid for, and make them uncomfortable at the same time...just so he could be comfortable.  Now if that's not greedy, I don't know what is.

Quote from: dedewhale on December 22, 2006, 01:23:17 PM

You place two adult male Roosters in a small square, the cocks are going to fight. Now we dont blame the animals but the people that forced them into the situation. The airlines are creating a hostle enviroment and not acceptable any accountablility on remedying a situation uniformly.

I'm not a big fan of the airlines - in fact, I despise them.  They treat their passengers poorly and I often feel an airplane is a nothing more than a cattle car.  But how do the airlines solve this issue?  Make bigger seats and charge everyone a lot more?  Adopt a uniform weight or girth policy and have weigh-ins before we get on the plane?  Or handle things on a case-by-case basis?  After all, if this flight was only 1/2 full, this wouldn't have been an issue.
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dedewhale
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« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2006, 02:22:01 PM »

well airlineare subsidized by the federal governement so some national rules established across all airlines could help address this issue. How I am not sure and not something I get paid to do, thankfully smile. But the fact is people are getting bigger and airlines are giving less room for its passanges across the board. Somehting does not add up!
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« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2006, 03:36:01 PM »

I initially read the title as 'Overweight man sues Air Force over seat row' and thought it might be about Lee  Tongue
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« Reply #34 on: December 28, 2006, 09:31:41 PM »

Quote from: Blackadar on December 21, 2006, 10:12:26 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on December 21, 2006, 08:27:54 PM


You could have traded seats with your wife.


Wouldn't have changed a thing.  I'm not going to let some fatass take up half of my seat because he's too big to fit in a normal sized seat.

No, but it would have saved your wife from having to deal with the issue.  Of course, my attitude towards women may be considered patronizing, so I apologize for presuming to tell you how to treat your wife.

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Oh, it's interesting that Brett has decided to post here now.  This thread is fucked.

Now, I was one of the bigger brettmcd baiters on OO.  However, it is my understanding that everyone is entitled to a fresh start here and sins committed on another forum are forgiven.  So welcome to GT, Brett.

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