Olympics 2012 - London

[kronovan]

Its also worth noting that Phelps beat Owens' 4 golds in TWO different Olympic games - 6 Golds in Athens and 8 Golds in Beijing. It's also worth noting that in Beijing, in 7 of the 8 races where Phelps won the gold medal, HE SET A WORLD RECORD (he only set an Olympic Record earning gold in the 100m butterfly).

Put in historical context, Jesse Owens is maybe history's most significant athlete. In pure athletic terms, I think Phelps has accomplished more.

Yeah...it's the historical significance and his personal overcoming of barriers that I was referring to. He was a black man in an era in which black people weren't very weclome in international competition. Remember, Hitler commented at the time (to his chief Architect Spear) that Black people were a lesser race much closer to lower primates and because of that they had an unfair physical advantage and shouldn't be allowed to compete in international events against other races.    Also worth noting, is that Owens had to ride up in the service elevator to attend a ceremony in his honor at NY's Waldorf hotel! The medals are 1 thing, but Owens greatest victory was just getting to the Olympics and proving a point in a big way once he got there.

[leo8877]

Phelps wins the 200m Individual Medley with Lochte second

We won't get to see the race until "primetime" on tape delay.  Not that I need to watch it now.   

What?,that's crap....you guys not got any channels showing it LIVE?

I'll keep schtum from now on then

Nope nothing.  Unless you watch on a mobile device app you gotta wait until primetime.

[GuidoTKP]

Put in historical context, Jesse Owens is maybe history's most significant athlete. In pure athletic terms, I think Phelps has accomplished more.

If you completely ignore the technological progress that has occurred between then and now, I don't think that argument holds much water. e.g., changing his swimsuit enables him to swim faster...

I don't think the article you quote makes the point you think it does. According to the article you cited, Phelps was one of the last to switch to the advanced suits and held world records before switching. More importantly, what does the advance in technology have to do with Phelps' medal count? Unless you think Phelps is the only one out there with an advanced suit, the playing field is equal, just like it was equal in the past. On an equal playing field, Phelps has dominated his competition to a degree never before seen. I stand by my earlier comment about Phelps' athletic achievements.

[ScubaV]

Actually the sharkskin suit thing was debunked:

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/02/a-swimsuit-like-shark-skin-not-so-fast/

[Calavera]

Put in historical context, Jesse Owens is maybe history's most significant athlete. In pure athletic terms, I think Phelps has accomplished more.

If you completely ignore the technological progress that has occurred between then and now, I don't think that argument holds much water. e.g., changing his swimsuit enables him to swim faster...

I don't think the article you quote makes the point you think it does. According to the article you cited, Phelps was one of the last to switch to the advanced suits and held world records before switching. More importantly, what does the advance in technology have to do with Phelps' medal count? Unless you think Phelps is the only one out there with an advanced suit, the playing field is equal, just like it was equal in the past. On an equal playing field, Phelps has dominated his competition to a degree never before seen. I stand by my earlier comment about Phelps' athletic achievements.

Switching suits actually made him faster. Regardless, we have cameras to review the mechanics of swimming, etc. Technology has improved performance significantly in all sports. It was more of a comment on the comparison a 1936 Olympian to a current one. They didn't have the technology we have, so I'd hope a modern athlete is significantly better than one in the past.

[Harkonis]

Put in historical context, Jesse Owens is maybe history's most significant athlete. In pure athletic terms, I think Phelps has accomplished more.

If you completely ignore the technological progress that has occurred between then and now, I don't think that argument holds much water. e.g., changing his swimsuit enables him to swim faster...

I don't think the article you quote makes the point you think it does. According to the article you cited, Phelps was one of the last to switch to the advanced suits and held world records before switching. More importantly, what does the advance in technology have to do with Phelps' medal count? Unless you think Phelps is the only one out there with an advanced suit, the playing field is equal, just like it was equal in the past. On an equal playing field, Phelps has dominated his competition to a degree never before seen. I stand by my earlier comment about Phelps' athletic achievements.

Switching suits actually made him faster. Regardless, we have cameras to review the mechanics of swimming, etc. Technology has improved performance significantly in all sports. It was more of a comment on the comparison a 1936 Olympian to a current one. They didn't have the technology we have, so I'd hope a modern athlete is significantly better than one in the past.

You're consistently missing the point that his competitors have access to the same technology.  What you explain is why world records consistently get improved on, but that isn't what was being said.  He has more medals, and medals are won versus people using the exact same amazing technology.

[Calavera]

You're consistently missing the point that his competitors have access to the same technology.  What you explain is why world records consistently get improved on, but that isn't what was being said.  He has more medals, and medals are won versus people using the exact same amazing technology.

Fair enough. The point I'm making (very badly) is that it's pointless to compare one from the 1930s to one from today, let alone comparing a track and field athlete to a swimmer. It's sorta like saying that 1950s American football players are more athletic than today's soccer players. It's an inane argument. Comparing raw medal count is pointless as well. Comparing success rate would be significantly better as far as a raw comparison, though I don't quite understand why you would even want to. 19 medals is an amazing accomplishment, let it stand on it's own.

Nope nothing.  Unless you watch on a mobile device app you gotta wait until primetime.

You can always use one of the VPN tunneling services to watch it using the BBC iPlayer....

[metallicorphan]

from a daily Australian paper 

[GuidoTKP]

Fair enough. The point I'm making (very badly) is that it's pointless to compare one from the 1930s to one from today, let alone comparing a track and field athlete to a swimmer. It's sorta like saying that 1950s American football players are more athletic than today's soccer players. It's an inane argument. Comparing raw medal count is pointless as well. Comparing success rate would be significantly better as far as a raw comparison, though I don't quite understand why you would even want to. 19 medals is an amazing accomplishment, let it stand on it's own.

What difference does past to present have to do with a discussion about Olympic achievements based on medal counts? I'm not saying Phelps would beat Owens in the pool or that Phelps would beat the best swimmer from the 30s in the pool. I'm saying that, as an Olympian, from a purely athletic perspective (i.e., I'm discounting for this discussion Owens' social and historical significance) Phelps achieved more than Owens. That's based on the fact that Phelps has medaled at three different Olympic games and the fact that Phelps has dominated his competition at the Olympics in a manner never before seen.

At this point, however, I think I need to take a moment to talk about Owens the athlete, since many credit him with the single greatest athletic achievement in the history of sports. I'll let Sports Illustrated tell the story:

It still looks like a misprint.

Four world records in three-quarters of an hour. Not 45 weeks or 45 days but 45 minutes.

Seventy-five years ago Tuesday, at the 1935 Big Ten Track and Field Championships in Ann Arbor, Mich., Jesse Owens didn't rewrite the record book -- he tore it up.

In less than an hour, the 21-year-old Ohio State sophomore tied the world record in the 100-yard dash and then set the world record in the long jump, the 220-yard dash and the 220 low hurdles.

One year later at the 1936 Berlin Olympics, the black son of an Alabama sharecropper became an athletic legend when he grabbed Adolf Hitler's toxic theories of racial supremacy and stuffed them in the fuhrer's face by winning gold medals in the 100 and 200 meters, the long jump and the 4x100 relay.

Owens' dominant week in Berlin is part of American athletic lore, but his Olympic performances have been duplicated or surpassed. Carl Lewis won the same four events at the 1984 Los Angeles Olympics. Speedskater Eric Heiden captured five gold medals at distances ranging from 500 to 10,000 meters at the 1980 Lake Placid Winter Games.

Swimmer Mark Spitz won seven gold medals, all in world-record time, over eight days at the 1972 Munich Games. Michael Phelps won eight golds at the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

But Owens' one-day blockbuster in Ann Arbor has no parallel, not only in track and field but in any sport. It is the greatest single day performance in athletic history, superior to Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point outburst or to the Redskins' Sammy Baugh throwing four touchdown passes and adding an NFL record four interceptions in one game.

That Owens took care of business in less than an hour -- and with an injured back -- adds even more luster to a name that has always ranked near the top of American sports heroes.

"People are surprised at how competitive Owens would still be as an athlete today," said Robert Gary, the current Ohio State track and field coach and meet director of the annual Jesse Owens Track Classic in Columbus. "I don't think many people realize what a phenomenal athlete he was."

Indeed, 75 years later, Owens still holds the Buckeyes' school record in the long jump.

Owens' time in the national spotlight was short -- only about four years. He first drew attention when he tied the 100-yard dash world record of 9.4 seconds as a Cleveland high school senior in 1933. He followed with a record four individual titles at both the 1935 and 1936 NCAA championships (Owens scored 40 of the Buckeyes' 40.2 points at the '35 meet) and then exited track shortly after draping himself in glory in Berlin.

But if Owens' career was abbreviated in years it was long on achievement, and never more so than at Michigan's Ferry Field on May 25, 1935.

At the start of the day, Owens didn't know if he could finish even one event. He had injured his lower back falling down the stairs five days earlier while roughhousing with his fraternity brothers and was still hurting as he warmed up.

After debating with Ohio State track coach Larry Snyder on whether to compete, Owens decided to take it one event at a time.

And what a time it was.

3:15 p.m. 100: After a slow start Owens' tremendous acceleration put him ahead at 30 yards. His official winning time of 9.4 seconds tied the world record, yet more than half of the race's official timers clocked him in 9.3, a new world mark. Rules of the day, however, stipulated that a runner be given his slowest time. The first official 9.3 100 would have to wait for 1948.

3:25 p.m. Long jump: Owens needed just one leap to improve the world record by more than a half-foot to 26 feet 8¼ inches. Only Bob Beamon's legendary 29-2½ jump at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics has improved the long jump record by a greater distance. Beamon's altitude-aided record lasted 23 years. Owens' mark lasted 25. Seventy-three years later at the 2008 Olympics, Owens' 1935 jump would have placed seventh.

"The scary part to me always has been how good Owens was for the very little long jump training he did," said Jon Hendershott, associate editor of Track and Field News. "And the back problem restricted him to just a single jump at the '35 Big Ten. Yet he set a world record that lasted for a quarter-century. Pretty stunning stuff."

3:34 p.m. 220: Until the 1960s, the 220 in the United States often was run on a straightaway rather than on a curve, and the sight of the smooth-striding Owens in full flight over a furlong must have been breathtaking. Owens ran 20.3 seconds to crush the old mark of 20.6. Because the 220 is more than a yard longer than 200 meters, Owens also received credit for breaking the world 200 straightaway record.

Ohio State's Gary said photos of the 220 make it appear "like no one else is in the race."

4 p.m. 220 low hurdles: Low hurdles stand only 2 feet, 6 inches (high hurdles are a foot taller), allowing Owens, who was not a gifted hurdler, to use his great speed between the barriers to defeat more technically superior opponents. He became the first runner to break 23 seconds with a time of 22.6 to win by five yards. He also received credit for the 200-meter hurdle record. The low hurdles event was discontinued at U.S. national meets after 1962.

Owens had averaged a world record every 11 minutes. To find a similar scale of achievement one has to journey to the realm of art and think of Mozart needing only six weeks to compose his final three symphonies in the summer of 1788 or of Shakespeare writing Henry V, Julius Caesar and As You Like It in the same year.
Owens, perhaps the smoothest sprinter of all time, was an athletic artist and with each record the Ferry Field crowd of 5,000 cheered louder. So many fans wanted to congratulate Owens after the meet that he had to leave the locker room through a bathroom window.

He was a national story and would join boxer Joe Louis as the best-known black athlete in the country. His startling achievement impressed even those not normally associated with sports.

Humorist Will Rogers observed: "Mr. Owens ... broke practically all the world records ... with the possible exception of horseshoe pitching and flagpole sitting."

Honors and financial opportunities were slow to flow Owens' way. For all the talk of being snubbed by Hitler at the '36 Olympics (some reports say the German leader actually offered a small wave to the American champion), Owens always said he was more upset by never having received recognition from President Franklin D. Roosevelt. In neither 1935 nor 1936 did he win the Sullivan Award, emblematic of the nation's top amateur athlete.

Only weeks after his historic triumph in Berlin, he was suspended by the Amateur Athletic Union for not competing in a minor track meet in Sweden. Owens preferred to get back to the U.S. to see his family and take advantage of endorsement opportunities that, ultimately, failed to materialize.

White Olympic swimmers like Johnny Weissmuller and Buster Crabbe could play Tarzan in the movies. Such avenues weren't open to Owens. To make money he had to run in exhibitions against horses.

Finally, in 1955, President Dwight Eisenhower honored Owens as an "ambassador of sport" and he received the Presidential Medal of Freedom from Gerald Ford in 1976. He also worked as a roving ambassador for Ford Motor Company and the U.S. Olympic Committee.

A decades-long cigarette habit eventually caught up with Owens and he died of lung cancer in 1980 at the age of 66.

Owens' records seem almost quaint today. Jamaica's Usain Bolt can run 100 meters about as fast as Owens covered 100 yards even though the metric sprint is more than 9 yards longer.

Bolt, however, doesn't compete in the hurdles or the long jump. Unlike Owens, he doesn't run on dirt tracks or without the benefit of starting blocks.

`With prize money and commercial endorsements now permissible in international track and field, Bolt can train year round and doesn't have to work in a gas station as Owens did in college. Bolt can compete as long as his body allows him. Owens last raced when he was 22.

One can speculate what Owens might have accomplished had he competed longer. Carl Lewis recorded his best marks in the 100 meters and long jump when he was 30.

Maybe Owens would have run a 10.1 100 meters, which wasn't accomplished until 1956, or notched the first 27-foot long jump, which didn't happen until 1961.

Yet considering how transcendent Owens was at Ann Arbor and again at Berlin, it would be like asking Michelangelo to touch up the Sistine Chapel or for Mark Twain to rework Huckleberry Finn.
The masterpieces speak for themselves.

As Hendershott noted, Owens' day of days in Ann Arbor "is likely never to be equaled, let alone beaten, in any sport."

Ferry Field still stands. Outside the track a plaque commemorates Owens' record-shattering day. It is, perhaps, the ultimate compliment in college sports that a University of Michigan athletic facility continues to honor the achievements of an Ohio State Buckeye.

Owens never had a chance to compete at multiple Olympics, so we're only left to speculate how much he could have accomplished on that particular stage. We don't have to speculate about Phelps, and I think its easy to defend a claim that Phelps accomplished more as an Olympian. But that magical day in Ann Arbor puts Jesse Owens behind no man. I'd say both of them have earned spots on the Mt. Rushmore of sports.

[Calavera]

I'd say both of them have earned spots on the Mt. Rushmore of sports.

Absolutely agreed.

[leo8877]

[kronovan]

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

[CeeKay]

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

funny, I don't even see Football listed in the events on NBC's page

ps.  enjoy the gold, courtesy of me.  you folks deserve at least one

[wonderpug]

Ok, seriously, NBC? Interview with winter Olympic snowboarder Shaun White, his thoughts on the $%#@ trampoline event?!  Clips of him attempting fencing?! How about showing some of the actual fencing event???!!?!

[Isgrimnur]

Apolo Ohno has been doing clips for them as well.

[CeeKay]

Apolo Ohno has been doing clips for them as well.

I had to google that name just to make sure you weren't making it up.

[metallicorphan]

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

Yeah i was quite gutted,but Canada deserved the win easily 


Usain Bolt's first appearance is apparently due at Lunchtime(its 11.45am now),so really looking forward to that

and really been enjoying Jessica Ennis    doing her heptathlon,she has Javelin and 800m to go later on today(after 100m hurdles,High Jump,Shot Put,200m and Long Jump yesterday and this morning)

[kronovan]

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

funny, I don't even see Football listed in the events on NBC's page

Hey the games are in London, it'd be way too inappropriate to use the term "soccer" in place of "football".

ps.  enjoy the gold, courtesy of me.  you folks deserve at least one

Unfortunately USA and Japan are the teams to beat and those are serious challenges for my country women to overcome. As to getting at least 1 gold, it's fairly common that Canada gets shut out from such an achievement at the summer olympics. I think our dubious record of being the only host nation of a summer olympics to not win a single gold medal (Montreal 1976) still stands.   If only they could find a way to bring a snow blower in and cool things down a bit, then we'd have a chance.  

[Koz]

Canada just won gold in women's trampoline FWIW.

[leo8877]

I just found out that race-walking is an Olympic sport! 

[PeteRock]

Apolo Ohno has been doing clips for them as well.

I had to google that name just to make sure you weren't making it up.

 

Ok, seriously, NBC? Interview with winter Olympic snowboarder Shaun White, his thoughts on the $%#@ trampoline event?!  Clips of him attempting fencing?! How about showing some of the actual fencing event???!!?!

NBC's coverage has been awful since day 1.  Exclusive rights to such a broad collection of events only hurts the viewer due to one company's inability to provide sufficient coverage, despite NBC's multiple channels.  And even when events are taking place live, we're "treated" to inverviews and flashbacks rather than to the event itself.  NBC has gotten a big WTF from me throughout the games.   

[Gratch]

Ouch.  Had almost that exact same thing happen to me during a game, left me with a concussion and busted nose.  Not fun.

[leo8877]

Apolo Ohno has been doing clips for them as well.

I had to google that name just to make sure you weren't making it up.

I'm guessing you don't watch the Winter Olympics much?! 

[metallicorphan]

NBC's coverage has been awful since day 1.  Exclusive rights to such a broad collection of events only hurts the viewer due to one company's inability to provide sufficient coverage, despite NBC's multiple channels.  And even when events are taking place live, we're "treated" to inverviews and flashbacks rather than to the event itself.  NBC has gotten a big WTF from me throughout the games.  

I'm annoyed for you guys,maybe its because its in London i don't know but the main reason i have been loving this years games is because of the 24 channels we get..I mean i have never watched a proper Fencing match in my life,or Shooting that i watched earlier today

Spoiler for Hiden:

(USA won)

What was it like for the Beijing games?..as usual we had BBC 1 taken over for the games(pretty much 24/7 apart from the News),and all their regular schedule(like this year)gets pushed onto BBC 2,if you say NBC have multiple channels i thought they would of done the same,or used one of their lesser channels for it all

this is what we currently have showing

Spoiler for Hiden:

BBC1(various,currently:Indoor Cycling same as Ch 7)
BBC3(Badminton China Vs China-repeat)
BBC Olympic Ch.1-schedule(Athletics at 6.40pm)
Ch 2-Olympic Tennis(Doubles)
Ch 3-Olympic Tennis(Doubles Great Britain Vs Germany just finished)
Ch 4-Athletics(that weird Road walk that Leo mentioned)
Ch 5-Football(Soccer:Brazil Vs Honduras)
Ch 6-Fencing(Russia Vs USA)
Ch 7-Indoor Cycling
Ch 8-Schedule(Football/Soccer at 7.20pm)
Ch 9-Schedule(Weight Lifting at 6.55pm)
Ch 10-Schedule(Basketball at 7.50pm,Sailing as just finished)
Ch 11-Schedule(Athletics at 7.50pm)
Ch 12-Schedule(Athletics at 7.20pm)
Ch 13-Indoor Volleyball(Russia Vs USA)
Ch 14-Schedule(Hockey at 6.50pm)
Ch 15-Handball(Croatia Vs Denmark)
Ch 16-Schedule(Table Tennis at 6.55pm)
Ch 17-Schedule(Table Tennis at 6.55pm)
Ch 18-Basketball(China Vs Brazil)
Ch 19-Women's Beach Volleyball(Brazil Vs Czech Republic)
Ch 20-Schedule
Ch 21-Schedule(Water Polo at 6.10pm)
Ch 22-Schedule
Ch 23-Schedule
Ch 24-Schedule

[CeeKay]

Apolo Ohno has been doing clips for them as well.

I had to google that name just to make sure you weren't making it up.

I'm guessing you don't watch the Winter Olympics much?! 

heck, I've barely watched the Summer Olympics.

[wonderpug]

The coverage was also awful for Beijing, but this time it's either worse or people have lost their patience. Maybe it's because we're now used to having information so readily accessible, near-instantly and practically on our own terms. Having an event like this be censored, more or less, is more frustrating than ever before.

[Koz]

You guys should find a UK VPN (like expat shield) and watch the BBC coverage. It's so much better. I'm not sure if the actual camerawork is any different but there's no ads, everything in HD, they actually show the pre- and post-match stuff, it's great.

[metallicorphan]

THIS JUST IN!!! 

[leo8877]

LOL! ^^

[pr0ner]

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

funny, I don't even see Football listed in the events on NBC's page

Hey the games are in London, it'd be way too inappropriate to use the term "soccer" in place of "football".

Actually, in England, it wouldn't.  It's technically "association football", aka soccer.

[metallicorphan]

Mens 100m about to start(3 USA and 3 Jamaican in the starting line up)

Woohoo!!! Canadian Women's football team knocked of Britain and will advance to the semi-final. I don't want to jinx it, but if they somehow end up making it to the final against the USA this will be 1 truly great Olympics.
Go Canada Go!!!

funny, I don't even see Football listed in the events on NBC's page

Hey the games are in London, it'd be way too inappropriate to use the term "soccer" in place of "football".

Actually, in England, it wouldn't.  It's technically "association football", aka soccer.

yeah when we were kids we would go for a kickabout on the fields which we called soccer,playing Headers and Volleys or 60 seconds...but Soccer was still treated as a slang word

[kronovan]

Woohoo, our Canadian athletes have netted a gold! And it was in... of all things... trampoline!

[Roguetad]

It's crazy how for the majority of the top female gymnasts their very narrow window of competition is from ages 14-17 years, and that's pretty much it.  If the timing works out they get one shot at an Olympics.  That's a ton of pressure for a 14-17 year old.  And, from what I understand, many of them have been living apart from their parents and siblings since they were young kids in order to train. 

For the very few that go on to be successful in the Olympics at that age, what do they do next?  I can't imagine they would participate in high school or college gymnastics when they've already been at the top of the wordclass level.           

[leo8877]

WTF losing to Canada of all teams?!  UGGGH!

[metallicorphan]

This Women's Football match between USA and Canada is great,the commentators are saying its the best Women's match they have seen,LOL....15 minutes until full time

[leo8877]

This Women's Football match between USA and Canada is great,the commentators are saying its the best Women's match they have seen,LOL....15 minutes until full time

Holy crap this is nuts

[metallicorphan]

Both teams played great and it was very unlucky for the losers

[leo8877]

I can't believe my eyes 

[gellar]

Spoiler for Hiden:

Woooo!  SUCK IT, CANADA.

[metallicorphan]

LOL,we were trying to keep it a secret for those who have not been able to watch it live