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Author Topic: Of Trolls and Tribulations: The Hobbit and LOTR Re-Read Discussion Thread  (Read 1528 times)
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ATB
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« on: January 18, 2007, 02:51:37 PM »

I've begun my re-read of The Hobbit, with plans to go through the whole series again- this will be my 2nd time- the first coming just after the release of the first movie.

I know many of you are rock bottom geek losers quite vell versed in Tolkien's world, so I'd like to use this thread as a place to ask questions and have a fine time at discussing it.

The first question I have has to do with Trolls.  In the Hobbit there's the famous exchange with the trolls Bill, Tom and Bert and how they capture all the dwarves. Eventually they get arguing over how to eat them and the sun comes up and bam they turn to stone.  Were they different kinds of trolls as they seemed rather capable of speech and thought and tactics...which is decidedly different from the trolls as presented in the movie AFAIK. Also there's no trolls turning to stone in any of the LOTR books...

Trolls play a prominent role in the warefare waged by Mordor and I know that in ROTK (my most recent visit to Middle Earth) that it says that Sauron blackens the skies so that his minions can fight even during the day.

This is fitting as it's night time when they siege Rohan in TTT (movie version).

However, in playing through BFME2, the trolls attack during the day (I know it's not cannon, but it should be true to the universe right?). 

So are there various types of trolls or are all susceptible to stone changing in the sun.

Also, what happens to orcs if they get in the sun?  The special ones (can't remember their names) made by Saruman can travel in the day and that's rather shocking to the FOTR.
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Austin
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2007, 02:58:17 PM »

Wiki
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2007, 03:06:04 PM »

I think I've read the series seven or eight times since I was 12, and I am oddly comforted that I didn't have any clue as to the answer of your question...
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM »

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2007, 05:05:52 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.

You're a lawyer and know nothing of tears...other than it's something you make others have often. Fink!
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2007, 05:36:47 PM »

How quaint you are, with your emotions and feelings!  My kind will crush you.
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2007, 05:49:21 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.

Because hobbits are all closet homosexuals?  Personally, I can't stand hobbits, they nearly ruined LoTR movies for me.
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2007, 06:24:08 PM »

Quote
Personally, I can't stand hobbits, they nearly ruined LoTR movies for me.

I agree. They weren't nearly as bad in the books, altho I do get tired of Frodo wining all the time. That said I've read the LotR trilogy every year for the past 30 years and loved it every time.
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2007, 06:56:06 PM »

i like the hobbits.  see, the hobbits in war are like the average everyday masses in war.  while the other near homicidal maniacs like aragon, the orcs, gimli et al are running around, frothing at the mouth, engorged sword in hand looking for something to kill the hobbits are wishing things just would be okay again. after its over they dont get to be kings or extend their territory.  they dont revel in the bloodlust and carnage of war, they just want to be home enjoying the simple things they already had. 

and in the end, its those hobbits that bear the most pain, suffer the greatest trials and eventually are the only ones who can win and end the war.
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Kobra
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« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2007, 07:04:13 PM »

Kinda like Iraqi civilians?   icon_lol
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2007, 07:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 18, 2007, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.

Because hobbits are all closet homosexuals?  Personally, I can't stand hobbits, they nearly ruined LoTR movies for me.

You realize there are no LOTR movies or books without hobbits, right?   saywhat
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« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2007, 07:21:07 PM »

Merry and Pippin went through a lot more hardship, and became way more serious and strong, in the books than what was shown in the movies.  It was a pretty big contrast to the idiots they were prior to Sam and Frodo taking off.
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2007, 10:30:58 PM »

Whatever.  They cried.  All the time.

"Ohh Mr. Frodo.  Buh huh huh huh."

Pissed me off.

Oops, derailed ATB's thread.
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2007, 03:08:21 AM »

It's also worth noting that at the time of the writing and first publishing of The Hobbit, Tolkien had not placed that world fully in his mythology of Middle-Earth (from earlier writings that would become The Sillmarillion).  They were only put together after The Hobbit was successful and he was asked for a sequel.  Some aspects of this can be seen in inconsistencies like the orcs always being called goblins in The Hobbit while in the LOTR books it developed to be mostly just the hobbits who occasionally called them goblins or goblin-soldiers. 
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2007, 03:42:44 AM »

Quote from: Kobra on January 18, 2007, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.

Because hobbits are all closet homosexuals?  Personally, I can't stand hobbits, they nearly ruined LoTR movies for me.

 saywhat
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ATB
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« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2007, 05:33:04 PM »

Took a few days off to play my DS and other games, but have been reading in earnest lately.

I'm about 130 pages in and am currently reading about Beorn.  What a wonderful character.  What brilliant writing.

Tolkein's stories are revered, of that there is no question, but I wonder if people recognized just what a brilliant writer he was. The prose is perfect.  The narrative is perfect.  It is detailed yet simple and conveys imagry and action and relationship and imagination in a way that no other person I've ever read has or can.

It makes me long to be in a place of such subtle magic and extraordinary characters: benevolent, but cautious; friendly but wary; hopeful but fierce; common but magical.

Wow.  Just so magnificent.

I so wish NL and PJ would work out their differences- I'd love to see his vision of The Hobbit on the screen.

I am so enjoying this re-read I can't stand it.
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« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2007, 02:03:51 AM »

Quote from: Farscry on January 19, 2007, 03:42:44 AM

Quote from: Kobra on January 18, 2007, 05:49:21 PM

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 18, 2007, 05:03:56 PM

I have a question.  Why do hobbits cry all the time?  That just nearly ruined the movies for me.  Ah yes, and the hobbits are crying.  I just wanted to punch them.

Because hobbits are all closet homosexuals?  Personally, I can't stand hobbits, they nearly ruined LoTR movies for me.

 saywhat

I have to agree.  The Hobbits were the low part of the movies for me.
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« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2007, 08:47:00 PM »

Quote from: ATB on January 27, 2007, 05:33:04 PM

...but I wonder if people recognized just what a brilliant writer he was.

Nah, you were the first.
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2007, 06:24:31 PM »

I agree ATB it's a very good read.  I don't know if I feel that the writing is a perfect as you feel it is, but hey, that's a personal feeling and it's more than likely going to be different for everyone.  smile

You should try out the Shannara series sometime if you haven't before.  I loved them myself but I am an easy read and not real discerning in my reading choices and tend to read a bit of everything.  smile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannara
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IkeVandergraaf
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2007, 09:28:52 PM »

You know who else I hated?  Tom Bombadil.  I also hated the way Tolkein would put in a long poem right in the middle there.  I felt like I would be missing something if I just skipped over it, so I would read it instead, seething with hate and anger.

Aside from the hobbits, Tom Bombadil and the poems, I thought they were a pretty good read.

Oh yeah, and how Gandalf got resurrected.  And how the whole thing was generally obviously derivative of Star Wars.

Hmm.  I think I kind of hated Tolkein.
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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2007, 11:14:08 PM »

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 29, 2007, 09:28:52 PM

You know who else I hated?  Tom Bombadil. 

I thought Bombadil was entertaining and one of the keys to the entire story.

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 29, 2007, 09:28:52 PM

Aside from the hobbits, Tom Bombadil and the poems, I thought they were a pretty good read.

 icon_biggrin

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 29, 2007, 09:28:52 PM

And how the whole thing was generally obviously derivative of Star Wars.

Uh...

Quote from: IkeVandergraaf on January 29, 2007, 09:28:52 PM

Hmm.  I think I kind of hated Tolkein.

Indeed.
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ATB
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« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2007, 08:16:23 PM »

Finished Hobbit yesterday.  Don't remember liking it as much as I did this time.  I just love the world of Middle Earth.  Love it so very very much.

On to FOTR!
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CeeKay
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« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2007, 10:49:45 PM »

well apparently no one appreciated my pun  crybaby
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« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2007, 11:18:19 PM »

Quote from: CeeKay on January 28, 2007, 02:03:51 AM


I have to agree.  The Hobbits were the low part of the movies for me.

Quote
well apparently no one appreciated my pun 

I'm sorry, I must have overlooked it  icon_biggrin
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« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2007, 05:21:56 PM »

Quote from: ATB on February 02, 2007, 08:16:23 PM

Finished Hobbit yesterday.  Don't remember liking it as much as I did this time.  I just love the world of Middle Earth.  Love it so very very much.

On to FOTR!

I tried rereading the Hobbit a few weeks back and was amazed at how 'childish' it seemed.  Not silly childish but on a level written to primarily appeal to children.  Make sense really since he wrote them first for his kids, but I find I can't get into that anymore. 

I originally read the entire series in my mid teens and found it to be the best thing written on earth at the time.  But since then, it just will not grab me anymore.  But I am glad you love it.  There is nothing like going back and reading an old favorite to find it fulfills even more.  I have some like that that I reread from time to time and I am amazed that they still deliver.
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